Allagan Gear getting buffed to ilvl95.

[Velhart]

Sorry, but raid gear should always be the better gear, period. Between Allagan and AF+1, my choice here was simply looks, which AF+1 won. Been passing gear in Turn 1-4 to help my fellow team mates who sometimes go DRG. While I decided to purchase the gear, I am still against the idea of being able to buy gear that is on the same level of the best gear in raids. There has to be a driving force in accomplishing content in this game, and simply buying your gear through low item level dungeons is the most boring and lackluster thing you can do. People throw the argument of choices, but this isn't a matter of choice, it is giving proper reward for accomplishing content. This is not a horizontal game, or at least I don't think so. There should be one gear set to rule them all during a period of time. While I put my foot in my mouth while wearing AF+1, that is how I feel about the current situation. I want to see the best gear on players who went through the hardships of the raid or extreme primal battle to obtain it. The work should match the reward. Spamming an easy dungeon numerous times a week for ilvl90 gear is not a good balance.

[Keyln]

Sorry, but raid gear should always be the better gear, period. Between Allagan and AF+1, my choice here was simply looks, which AF+1 won. Been passing gear in Turn 1-4 to help my fellow team mates who sometimes go DRG. While I decided to purchase the gear, I am still against the idea of being able to buy gear that is on the same level of the best gear in raids. There has to be a driving force in accomplishing content in this game, and simply buying your gear through low item level dungeons is the most boring and lackluster thing you can do. People throw the argument of choices, but this isn't a matter of choice, it is giving proper reward for accomplishing content.This is not a horizontal game, or at least I don't think so. There should be one gear set to rule them all during a period of time. While I put my foot in my mouth while wearing AF+1, that is how I feel about the current situation. I want to see the best gear on players who went through the hardships of the raid or extreme primal battle to obtain it. The work should match the reward. Spamming an easy dungeon numerous times a week for ilvl90 gear is not a good balance.

It's really all quite simple. One takes time while the other takes skill. One is quicker while the other takes patience.

Why shouldn't the two be the same?

Raider:
- relic +1 takes a few hours
- couple of months to down T5 initially then may be another 2-3 lock outs to have it on farm, then drop base on RNG

So...how does the Raider get around the 300 myth cap?

[Grym]

It's really all quite simple. One takes time while the other takes skill. One is quicker while the other takes patience.

Why shouldn't the two be the same?

Because that skill needed is much higher than that "patient".

That "patient" you can get done in a couple of hours. If you want to argue that "but some group got Coil on farm weeks ago", then you need to read my previous post. You cannot compare casual's relic effort to raider's Coil effort. If anything, you need to compare Casual's relic effort vs Casual's Coil effort then compare Raider's relic effort and Raider's Coil effort to have a fair comparison.

[Hanemakikaze]

It's really all quite simple. One takes time while the other takes skill. One is quicker while the other takes patience.

Scripted encounters do not take skill, only memorizing their patterns & mechanics. PVP would be something that takes skill, as laughable as it will be.

[Pellegri]

Scripted encounters do not take skill, only memorizing their patterns & mechanics. PVP would be something that takes skill, as laughable as it will be.

Lets see how you do in a fight like Twin with that attitude. Go into it with terrible gear or a bad group that somehow managed to get past turn 4, see you how far you get without a form of skill. It takes skill to learn your class and perform to the best of your abilities, it takes skill to get mechanics down and remember them through a month of wipes before you "may" get it. If you think learning mechanics is the only skill based thing about this fight then I'd like to see you get a group together of skilled mechanic dodgers alone and see how far you get.

[Hanemakikaze]

Lets see how you do in a fight like Twin with that attitude. Go into it with terrible gear or a bad group that somehow managed to get past turn 4, see you how far you get without a form of skill. It takes skill to learn your class and perform to the best of your abilities, it takes skill to get mechanics down and remember them through a month of wipes before you "may" get it. If you think learning mechanics is the only skill based thing about this fight then I'd like to see you get a group together of skilled mechanic dodgers alone and see how far you get.

No one will get past turn 4 in bad gear, it's not really up for debate. Twin wasn't beat until everyone got the mechanics of the fight down(the legit kills) and ran coil enough to get more gear for it. PVE endgame is nothing more than good communication, knowing the fights mechanics, and gear.

I didn't mention knowing your class because that's a given, you could know all about it and still get destroyed because you have no idea how the mechanics of a fight works. End of the day, know the fight, have gear for it, communication. You're still fighting a scripted fight where you know exactly what's coming every single time. So no, I will never consider PVE skill based, to me it's more know your role and the fight. But if that's what your definition of skill is, I won't argue it.

[Grym]

You CAN outsmart a scripted fight, but then it goes into the "is it an exploit or clever use of mechanics" debate.

[Grym]

What about sports that doesn't have an opponent?

For example, Javelin, while there are other competitors, when it is your turn, it is simply you, giving it your best try, then compare your best try against other people's best try. So by your standard, there is no skill involved in most of the Athletic events? If that is the case we can stop there cause again we will never agree.

And for the Titan fight, the "skill" part for me, comes from the Knowledge (know the rotation), Reflex (move accordingly), Perfect Execution (don't get hit by anything, Medica/Shield on stomps, know to get people out but don't release them in the Landslide...etc), I already told you, I classify these 3 elements as skill. If you can't see that, then we will never going to agree, I am not going to try to change your opinion, I am just telling you this is mine, and you will never be able to change it either.

[Dano]

I didn't mention knowing your class because that's a given, you could know all about it and still get destroyed because you have no idea how the mechanics of a fight works. End of the day, know the fight, have gear for it, communication. You're still fighting a scripted fight where you know exactly what's coming every single time. So no, I will never consider PVE skill based, to me it's more know your role and the fight. But if that's what your definition of skill is, I won't argue it.

so the part about actually executing the plan doesn't involve any skill?