Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Chinook]

+1 to Sephr who seemed to understand the same logical thing as me from the Dev. info (and quote from this thread own OP):

•Jobs are Specialized Playstyles Optimized for Partying. (Great)

Playing your class for X ranks made you acquire optimized playstyles (jobs) for various roles that you can further enhance with quests and such, why should these optimized playstyles (jobs) be usable by other classes (when these other classes can already equip other classes skills, a LNC/CON isn't enough, you want a LNC/WHM ???) ?

[ZephyrAM]

And why not allow LNC/WHM, or any other such combination? While I admit that the layout Sephr linked is indeed interesting, it's more of a promotion system then a job system, and honestly it would pull directly from any number of little F2P games out there. The 'split class promotion' concept is fairly limiting and has next to nothing in common with any job system from the FF series.

The more flexibility, the better. A true job system needs to allow the freedom to excel at something, balance multiple things, or yes, just suck at most everything. Not everything goes together well, but the fun is in the experimentation.

[Sephr]

And why not allow LNC/WHM, or any other such combination? While I admit that the layout Sephr linked is indeed interesting, it's more of a promotion system then a job system, and honestly it would pull directly from any number of little F2P games out there. The 'split class promotion' concept is fairly limiting and has next to nothing in common with any job system from the FF series.

The more flexibility, the better. A true job system needs to allow the freedom to excel at something, balance multiple things, or yes, just suck at most everything. Not everything goes together well, but the fun is in the experimentation.

I'm totally for flexibility, but don't we already have the tools to do that? Can't you already equip the tools to do that?

We know that each job is going to be a set of skills in some form that you unlock via quests. In the case of white mage I imagine that would be higher tiers of Cure, Regen etc. Do you want that to be accessible to every job? How would that work? What kind of penalty would a Lancer face for advancing their currently non-existent healing skills? (because as we know, a specialisation placed on Lancer would mean they'd become focussed on White mage, not that they'd become LNC/WHM)

In addition to that, doesn't that just kill the whole 'specialisation' and also the return to classic final fantasy jobs that they're shooting for?

The alternative I can see (correct me if there's another) would be that EVERY class gets their own skills for EVERY job, which would be totally unrealistic.

[Sorel]

I'm totally for flexibility, but don't we already have the tools to do that? Can't you already equip the tools to do that?

We know that each job is going to be a set of skills in some form that you unlock via quests. In the case of white mage I imagine that would be higher tiers of Cure, Regen etc. Do you want that to be accessible to every job? How would that work? What kind of penalty would a Lancer face for advancing their currently non-existent healing skills? (because as we know, a specialisation placed on Lancer would mean they'd become focussed on White mage, not that they'd become LNC/WHM)

Divine Lancer
Class: Lancer
Weapon: Lance
Job: White Mage
Job Trait: +25% Healing Potency (Tier 1)
Job Ability: Benediction

This is how it could look. Again, this character would probably suck, but I wouldn't go so far as to say such a character should be impossible to make.

[Chinook]

Divine Lancer
Class: Lancer
Weapon: Lance
Job: White Mage
Job Trait: +25% Healing Potency (Tier 1)
Job Ability: Benediction

This is how it could look. Again, this character would probably suck, but I wouldn't go so far as to say such a character should be impossible to make.

We can already do something pretty similar by equipping One with Nature trait, Fastcast trait, Cure III, Protect II, Shell II, Stoneskin II, Shock Spikes II, Poisona, Blindna, Dia, etc ...) on a Lancer.

So .. if I use FFXI as an example since some of you like it very much, you want a system that allows LNC75/WHM75 (the current cross-class skills could be compared to the level 1-37 abilities, and the job might provide the level 38-75 abilities) with access to 2hour abilities and weapons?

[Sephr]

Divine Lancer
Class: Lancer
Weapon: Lance
Job: White Mage
Job Trait: +25% Healing Potency (Tier 1)
Job Ability: Benediction

This is how it could look. Again, this character would probably suck, but I wouldn't go so far as to say such a character should be impossible to make.

Great. So why bother? Why campaign for them to spend time working on a system where 90% of the combinations suck when they could just focus on making the jobs really great but only fit certain classes?

Do you seriously just want the jobs to be passive buffs? Is the pursuit of FREEDOM so important and necessary that the jobs themselves need to be boring as hell?

EDIT: Again I should remind you, this adds no specialisation to Lancer whatsoever. They can't specialise as a healer, in fact it servers to do the OPPOSITE, which is make them a watered down mix of classes. It doesn't make sense in the context we're given.

[Lerris]

Actually, allowing a Lancer to be a White Mage will probably prevent the player from using any lancer abilities.
The blueprint did say that certain jobs will prevent equipping of certain cross-class skills. Most Lancer skills will likely be in this list for WHM.

So, who wants to play a WHM wielding a barely-effective spear and possessing a reduced MP pool? Because THAT is what the OP is asking for. It's probably not what he wants, but it's what he's asking for.

[Nuru]

Actually, allowing a Lancer to be a White Mage will probably prevent the player from using any lancer abilities.
The blueprint did say that certain jobs will prevent equipping of certain cross-class skills. Most Lancer skills will likely be in this list for WHM.

So, who wants to play a WHM wielding a barely-effective spear and possessing a reduced MP pool? Because THAT is what the OP is asking for. It's probably not what he wants, but it's what he's asking for.

Its the freedom he wants, not so much how effective they will be.

[Sorel]

Do you seriously just want the jobs to be passive buffs? Is the pursuit of FREEDOM so important and necessary that the jobs themselves need to be boring as hell?

No. Boring is not what I want. But boring is maybe what we'll get.

If we go by the letter of Akihiko Matsui's post, Jobs are a method of helping define roles in a party. Their abilities are not learned by leveling, but by questing. I don't see a single quest giving more than one or two abilities and/or traits. So if by unlocking a Job, you gain ... say a Job defining ability (like Benediction), and a useful trait in parties (+25% Healing), and then during the followup quests, you gain 1 trait, and 1 ability per completed quest ... a single Job is not realistically going to have more than 10 or 12 traits and abilities total (5 or 6 quests). Compare that to the 25 total abilities available to a single Class.

So yeah. Jobs may turn out to be more boring than Armory Classes. That possibility cannot be denied.

[Amineri]

Divine Lancer
Class: Lancer
Weapon: Lance
Job: White Mage
Job Trait: +25% Healing Potency (Tier 1)
Job Ability: Benediction

This is how it could look. Again, this character would probably suck, but I wouldn't go so far as to say such a character should be impossible to make.

This is actually the type of character that I would like to play. And yes, it is probably is kind of gimp, but I keep playing with it trying to figure out ways to make it viable, simply because I like the character concept.

Lancer has far more HP and better defense then Conjurer, but Lancer has less HP than any other DoW job (even Archer). I keep my Cure II/III, Protect/Shell II equipped along with One with Nature. I don't do any nuking on LNC, as my low mag potency from my iron halberd makes that pretty ineffective. I generally take on the role of damage mitigation, meaning Protect II / Shell II / Shock Spikes II, using Sleep on an add, and using Moonrise II and Twisting Vice to limit or hopefully eliminate TP attacks by enemies. I also find that keeping decent INT / MND / PIE improves my ability land Comrade in Arms II, which is almost brokenly good. I also function as a backup healer, if the party gets split, the healer in a four person group DCs, or if the enemy gets off a particularly powerful TP attack I can jump in with a Cure III to help bring the main tank up to full HP quicker. I also use Chainspell + Raise combos to raise fallen members quickly, without making the primary healer take the time or generate the aggro.

Lancer also has more MP then any other DoW class, although has no abilities that actually use MP, so to my mind it makes good sense as a base weapon for hybridization.

I admit that this pertains to the CURRENT armoury system, with the current skills and such.

Jobs are intended for specialization within parties, as stated. However, it was also stated that the r30 dungeons are aimed at Light Parties (in my mind this means parties of four players), so using jobs in a four-person group is being kept in mind.

I don't know if WHM / LNC would be viable. But it might, and if the option is there I'll be testing it out. Who knows? Perhaps Cure III will become a CON-specific ability, but adding the WHM job would allow it to be equipped for any class. Sure, WHM / LNC won't be as good at healing as WHM / CON, but it still might have a role.