Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Cairdeas]

right and technically you could call mog a dragoon, he could only equip lances. guess you could call him a dancer/dragoon. and kain could use swords and axes...but ultimate weapon was a lance how about that? I guess if he had an equally powerful ultimate weapon in swords and axes then yeah you'd have a point. but...it didn't. of course we could also bring up final fantasy v and the dragoon in that....could only use lances. OH and while i'm at it final fantasy IV was the one with kain, not vi.

FFV: Dragoon- Knives, Spear
FFVI: Mog isn't a Dragoon, he is classified by SE as being a Dancer/Geomancer.
FFT: Lancer - Can use Polearms, Short Swords, and Great Swords. Can use Axes, Katanas, and other weapons given via the "Use: Weapon" skills.


:/ Sorry but Theres no game in the series that has Dragoon limited Specifically to Spears. Dragoons primary role in battle (which is all this job system is going to implement) is Jumping, and maybe things like Lancet, Cherryblossom, and other dragoon skills borrowed from Freya, Kain, and others.

And to be honest, if a drg could use other weapons but not be good at them then whats the point?. jobs are meant for party play, for specialization...so why would you want to be sub par in a specialized role?

So If I prefer to depict myself as a dragoon because the playstyle allows me to use things like Jump, Lancet and a Wyvern pet. But I get into a situation where the monster I'm going to fight is horribly resistant to Piercing Damage, I have to break my entire character to pull out a weapon it doesn't resist, Maybe Great Axe. so now I'm using a great axe but I'm no longer a dragoon and can't use the skills that are dragoon only. I'm no longer the character I built to depict myself.

Once you have Jobs Unlocked your equipped job should be your playstyle. It takes over for declaring what skills you can equip, which ones you are excel at using, and grants you bonuses for using them. But none of that has anything to do with what weapon I have equipped.

[SuzakuCMX]

I don't really care what weapon someone uses as long as they can't use the skills/abilities of the class associated with that weapon that is not suited for them (or at least they're extremely gimped when doing so -- like a Warrior class can't use any CON or THM spells effectively).

[Cairdeas]

I don't really care what weapon someone uses as long as they can't use the skills/abilities of the class associated with that weapon that is not suited for them (or at least they're extremely gimped when doing so -- like a Warrior class can't use any CON or THM spells effectively).

Sure they probably wouldn't be able too. There are some combinations that just outright will not work. But there are some that would work beautifully but would still be locked out if you only got to use the Job you wanted on the Class it was unlocked from. Its more fair to let the Player pick what ever weapon they want for their Job and let the game balance them out so they do not chose a bad choice, then restricting any choices at all and force people down a hallway.

[Nuru]

SE depicts MZ as an angry Mandy >.>

[Cairdeas]

I still feel this discussion is valid until we get a proper response from a community rep, a dev, or a better explanation of the job system.

[SuzakuCMX]

So are you on the same page I am?

Every job can use (MAYBE) every weapon but not the skills/abilities of that weapon if it's not a good affinity?

[Cairdeas]

So are you on the same page I am?

Every job can use (MAYBE) every weapon but not the skills/abilities of that weapon if it's not a good affinity?

Of course.But defining that is what is important.

Should a white mage be able to use Black magic? no

Should a monk be prevented from using white magic, not necessarily.

[Amineri]

Cairdeas et al

Has anyone given much thought to what the UI for changing jobs is going to be? It seems highly unlikely that there will be a Mog House ala FFXI. The currently Armoury system has the wonderfully intuitive mechanism of changing weapon / tool to change class. So what is the job-change mechanism going to be? I personally would dislike yet another pop-up window to set the class.

As a part of the mechanic to change job, how is that UI going to convey the restrictions that go along with that job? SE has clearly stated that certain skills / abilities / spells will be unavailable to certain jobs. Does this mean that each job will list which skill, etc. are unavailable? Or will each skill, etc. list which jobs it is usable with?

If this isn't handled right, the UI for jobs is going to be confusing as hell, with a really steep learning curve for new players (you know .... the ones we all hope SE can re-attract to keep the game alive).

The options I've thought of so far:

1. Include jobs as a part of the armoury system, so that you equip a piece of gear to take on a job (a hat, or an earring or something). Possibly multiple pieces of gear, as job level / rank / whatever is added. Opens the possibility of each piece of job gear restricting specific skills from being equipped (and would be described with the gear).
2. Jobs are unlocked as traits, using the existing skill/traits UI. Job trait specifies which classes it can be equipped with. If a job is locked to a specific class, then it would only be equipable on that class. Job skills/traits would also be under the corresponding class (and could be single class or multi-class). In this case the weaponskills and abilities from classes would list which jobs they were usable with. This gets ugly as new jobs are added, since every weaponskill has to be updated.

After going through the above exercise, I'm thinking that option 2 is the most likely. Adding new skill/trait icons is a lot simpler than adding job-specific gear. This makes me kinda sad, since I like option 1, but I'll try and be a realist.

If option 2 is implemented, the line between "job locked to class" and "job unlocked from class" becomes a bit fuzzy. If a particular class rank is required to unlock a job, then after it is unlocked the job-trait (to activate it) and the job abilities (also to be equipped) would naturally be stored on the corresponding class menu. This may be the origin of SE's use of "corresponding". Even if the job-trait and its abilities are initially locked to that class, there would be nothing preventing SE from allowing the job-trait to be equipped with other classes at a later time.

I thought it might be nice to take a look at the locked jobs / unlocked jobs from a different perspective ... now to see if anyone else thinks it's worthwhile >_>

[Cairdeas]

This is how I imagine jobs will be done in the UI.

In the Skill Assignment menu you'll have a singular box above the rest that is identified as the Job. When you click on it, it populates the right list with only the jobs you have unlocked. When you equip a Job, the Skill bars and trait bars are wiped out and the prominent skills you already know are assigned automatically in order of rank learned. And the traits are assigned in the same fashion. Then afterwards you can adjust the skill loadout, moving the skills you want about to where you want them on the bars or exchanging them with other valid skills as long as they do not oppose the Job (Black magic on a White Mage etc.) Then you can tack on any traits you want to add but can't remove the Job Traits they are locked.

Once this is complete the loadout is saved to that job. The next time you change to that job it will automatically assign your previous loadout.

This would be the easiest way to perform the actual job change.


As far as how to designate which jobs can/can't use certain skills. I think it would be easier to have a symbol for each job that is marked on the expanded tool tip for each skill or something similar so that when you are looking at the full skill info it shows you the jobs that can equip it.

[Chinook]

Please lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.