Tanking - WAR and PLD. There is no "Better".

[Taemek]

...../faceplam here we go again.

In the world of math, yeah Paladin is better on paper. How it plays out practically in the real world versus a Warrior is a different thing all together in terms of what classes bring the table and how much more beneficial are they to a Warrior over a Paladin and vice versa.

At the end of the day it comes down to how comfortable your group can handle the stress of the level of challenge playing a Warrior brings and of course, the player playing the Warrior needs to save Cooldowns obviously for the correct moments or shit hits the fan real quick.

No one has proven that tanking any current content as a Warrior cannot be done yet or supplied any solid evidence of such, just a cluster of theory crafting to show that it doesn't take damage as well as a Paladin.

I am happy playing Warrior as it currently is, some little tweaks to be done here and there to make it less clunky imho, but apart from that, enjoying the challenge throughly.

[Greil_Gawain]

Hi, I'm a whm and it's my favorite class and I got a lot of playtime with it.
I am doing the end game content, and have healed plenty of wars and pallies
And I've had both good and bad of both classes. However, I take a completely
Different approach to healing warriors and I suggest all you whm also give it a try.


First of all, lets talk about heals. My most mana efficient healing is cure1 and regen. Unfortunately that's not very effective on a warrior. It keeps me in a reactive state of heal spamming the warrior. I'm also losing efficiency because of over heals. I can't read the warriors mind when he is going to heal himself, and letting him sit at half health is dangerous because the next big crit could kill them. Continued....

[Greil_Gawain]

So how about cure2 spam and the stoneskin ability. I know cure2 is better in terms of math. BUT you risk no chance of over healing with stoneskin. Most importantly, stoneskin generates a lot less hate, and lets the warrior play to his strengths. It does have longer casting time than say cure2, but if you have decent spell speed it's quite doable. Furthermore, we can use another great underused power of ours. With a warrior tank I can fully commit to cleric stance during speed runs and holy away because holy is also damage mitigation cuz of the long stun.

So by keeping them stoneskinned and using holy you are helping your warriors out by allowing them to play by their strengths(life steal attacks, large health pool) and you cover their weaknesses with the damage absorb and stun.

Give it a try, you will be a happier healer and have a happier warrior =D

tl;dr Whm use stoneskin regen on warrior

[PessimiStick]

A) There's nothing wrong with WAR in 4 mans.
B) Stoneskin and Regen are more effective on a PLD than they are on a WAR.

[Ehayte]

A) There's nothing wrong with WAR in 4 mans.
B) Stoneskin and Regen are more effective on a PLD than they are on a WAR.

B)

1 | Regen is the same, they have the same eHP in tanking stance.
2 | PLD hp 5200, WAR hp 6500. War gets 1170hp mitigated, PLD gets 936 mitigated, BOTH 18% of total hp, which is healed at the same rate (or faster for a war that has any Wrath). WAR takes the edge in practical application since they can reactively heal themselves, and PLD has no choice but to BE healed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Skull_Angel]

B)

1 | Regen is the same, they have the same eHP in tanking stance.
2 | PLD hp 5200, WAR hp 6500. War gets 1170hp mitigated, PLD gets 936 mitigated, BOTH 18% of total hp, which is healed at the same rate (or faster for a war that has any Wrath). WAR takes the edge in practical application since they can reactively heal themselves, and PLD has no choice but to BE healed.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Regen is stronger on PLD than WAR. Regen is a 1050 potency heal over the course of 21 sec. (iirc); as an example using your HP values (5200/6500) and simplifying HP > potency outcome as 1:1, that's ~20% of PLD's basic health pool and 17%~18% of WARs basic health pool (~18% assuming Full stacks over the full duration, ~17% assuming stacks are built in a timely manner).

Edit: ~17% was assuming the Regen buff is dynamic and changes with player +% healing buffs, otherwise ~16% is the base value with no Wrath stacks.

[Derza]

Regen is stronger on PLD than WAR. Regen is a 1050 potency heal over the course of 21 sec. (iirc); as an example using your HP values (5200/6500) and simplifying HP > potency outcome as 1:1, that's ~20% of PLD's basic health pool and 17%~18% of WARs basic health pool (~18% assuming Full stacks over the full duration, ~17% assuming stacks are built in a timely manner).

Edit: ~17% was assuming the Regen buff is dynamic and changes with player +% healing buffs, otherwise ~16% is the base value with no Wrath stacks.

Also Stoneskin becomes better on a pld if they use any mitigation CD - the only way for warriors to make the stoneskin better is if they use thrill of battle BEFORE stoneskin is casted.

[pepero]

Overgearing yourself and then doing content with said overgeared gear does not mean that that invalidates all the math against Warriors. BTW, still haven't seen any evidence of Warrior's MTing Turn 4 even from fully geared Allagan Warriors, while PLD's can do it just fine with only darklight gear, care to explain this OP?

[Ehayte]

Regen Stats.

So WAR is 18.5% of total in Infur vs PLD 20.1%. So PLD takes a 1.7-2.0% advantage. I think we can pretty much call that even lol.

Also Stoneskin becomes better on a pld if they use any mitigation CD - the only way for warriors to make the stoneskin better is if they use thrill of battle BEFORE stoneskin is casted.

What...? If a PLD pops a CD its a % of dmg done...whether its a shield or not. Its "more effective" because they are using an extraneous source of mitigation. The same could be said about a Cure. But in terms of practical application, like I said, I would give the edge to the WAR because it smooths out the incoming damage every time Stoneskin hits, which should give them an easier time being maximally efficient using their own self heals, without the Healer over-lap.

Full Disclosure: I think WARs need a few extra CDs, or they need Bloodbath to be a trait. I don't think they are on equal footing with PLDs, I just happen to agree with how that WHM said to heal them : D

[Gamemako]

In the world of math

FFXIV is not programmed in Feels++. The game is math.