Elitism and How It Is Ruining The Gaming Community [Discussion, Feedback, and Rants]

[Seiko769]

Bullshit. You can easily hit 3.4k HP with AK gear and DL accessories, and you can get away with less than that. You'll still survive a plume.
Optimally you should be able to dodge all of the plumes anyway.

A tank or Melee might be able to doubt a caster would and if you do go in full AK and DL accessories your not going at your best potential cause your missing a lotta stats from full DL. Possible? Yes. Makes it the easiest? No. As for plumes your NEVER gonna miss all of em optimally you just don't want stacks of them so u dont die when they do hit. Took me 5 days for my first titan drop and I was alive when the fight ended and guess what? I was eating single plumes a lot. I don't think it's ever possible to miss all of them

[Mysteltain]

A tank or Melee might be able to doubt a caster would and if you do go in full AK and DL accessories your not going at your best potential cause your missing a lotta stats from full DL. Possible? Yes. Makes it the easiest? No. As for plumes your NEVER gonna miss all of em optimally you just don't want stacks of them so u dont die when they do hit. Took me 5 days for my first titan drop and I was alive when the fight ended and guess what? I was eating single plumes a lot. I don't think it's ever possible to miss all of them

Actually, since Plumes are magic damage, us mages are more resistant to them. When I first ran it, most everyone would take 3k from a plume, whereas I--a BLM in WP and AK gear--only took 2k or so. Hell, all but two of the times I was the last person to die and it wasn't because our healers were focusing on me more than any other person. I was smart about my abilities. "Oh shit, I'm not dodging this, Manaward!" [0 damage!] "Bombs are coming, moving there now--wait, gotta adjust for that jerkish Landslide."

Yes, there are some points where gear is absolutely required. I would not run Titan in AF gear and without Ifrit's Cane or the DL Staff from WP, for example. But skill matters just as much, if not sometimes more.

[HoroBoro]

Seiko - you need to stop spreading the misinformation. I did Titan in 1/2 Darklight and Ifrit weapon.

As long as you dodge everything, there's no reason why you should die. Heck I could even survive plumes. I often was at the top during Heart Phase as well.

Is it easier if you have full darklight? Yes.

If you find you keep dying in Titan, should you get full Darklight? Probably... Not... If you have 3.2K+ and no problem in heart phase, you need to learn how to dodge. No amount of healing or gear will save you if you have a bad connection, if SE servers decides to screw you then, or if you don't have enough experience.

Those are far more important.

rswfire - first you can edit your post to get past the limit. 2nd - I have a problem with how you describe leadership. You lead by example - I often guide people as DPS or as heals. You lead by not being a jerk.

Tanks who demand people do things are children. Not leaders. If the healer is doing bad try to communicate what they're doing wrong. If communications break down, you're going to have a bad time. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you can't explain to the other person what they're doing wrong and ultimately convince them, you're not leading.

So despite how futile it is, you have to try. If you can't too bad, situation is FUBAR. If you can - hey - guess what? You're a leader.

Edit - I have to get past the post limit too...

Edit 2: Thinking about it - yes. My opinion is the only one that matters to me. If someone presents a reasonable argument to me, my opinion will change. It would be strange if the opinions of others mattered to me and did not become my opinion. The opinions of others do not bother me unless they choose to act on their opinions.

I would find it hard to live if the opinions of every person different from mine somehow dictated how I act despite the fact I did not believe in them. I think I would be a slave or perhaps those people are paying me to act contrary to my opinion. In that case, I think I would be some sort of mental gigolo.

Edit 3: And rswfire - I did interpret that you equated Tank = Leader. I got it from:

I've heard it said that tanks and healers are the worst when it comes to elitism...

It's also not the most glamorous role. I'm not sure I'd even call it fun unless you're comfortable leading others, and have a competent healer with you.

Whatever the case may be, though, you're the one they look to and the weight of the mission is on your shoulders to bare. Bare it gracefully.

From this sentence, it seems that you are saying Tank role = the leader role, which is what I was trying to dispute.

I'm just trying to say, a role in an MMO does not = leadership. If, by talking it out, you managed to keep the group together, you did assume leadership. I'm just saying that you don't have to be a tank to do it.

Furthermore, if we get back on the discussion of elitism, most people do not assume that Tanks are elitists. In fact, I assume no one is elitist because I've not met many people who are.

[Jeronlmo]

EDIT: Thought I'd clear some things up. The AK run I described was before I joined any FC or LS. This is based off of my experience in my server and what people have told me. I don't know if it is all true (requiring DL for AK for your first time or something). The thread is to generate ideas for this unavoidable problems and to see if other people on any other servers are experiencing what I am. Coming on here to whine about my rant doesn't serve a purpose in this thread. And with that said, here you go:

Now before I get started, I know that elitism is (unfortunately) a healthy part of a Massive Multiplayer Online game. They're what drive the community, even though they can be annoying.

I haven't played many MMO games, but from what I've read and understood, this is the worst endgame community anyone has been in. There are elitists left and right with no way to avoid them. There have been several reports of elitists ruining the experience for people or complaining about the smallest details. I understand that things such as Amdapor Keep and Wanderer's Palace require at least Darklight armor, but what gets me is the amount of people who whine about players watching the cutscenes during the game. This is a Final Fantasy. The entire series is renown for their stories, and yet we have people who are saying you're not allowed to watch the story because I say so or else I'll kick you. I know that the patch from this morning helped with that, but I can nearly guarantee you that it will continue. People will still use Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium for speed-runs to get their Allagan Tomestomes of Philosophy, as they still give the highest amount out of any of the other dungeons in the game. There was a user on my server, Midgardsormr, who was declaring that if you're a PlayStation 3 user, before you can even be a part of his party, you had to have Relic+1, FULL Darklight, AND a Photo ID, practically preventing anyone from getting in. Not only is this against the rules of the game, as you cannot single out who is playing on what system, it is also the disgusting truth that elitists are ruining this community. I'm getting tired of seeing things like "LFM Titan HM Farm. Have FULL DL and Relic. AVOIDABLE MISTAKES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED" and things like this. I know I can just get rid of shout altogether, but we can only avoid it for so long before we have to go back to it. The Duty Finder is also bringing the worst out of people. We have elitists saying that, even for a CM run, other people's gear sucks and they shouldn't be here. There, unfortunately, should be an instance server for people who are doing the storyline CM and Prae and then people who are doing speedruns. That's my alternative idea to avoiding some of this mess. What are your thoughts on this? Hopefully SE will see this and take action.

You, like many others, just do not understand that the game requires what you seem to hate, people speed run because the game makes you spam dungeons literally hundreds of times, knocking 25min's off of every AK is a very very big deal, regardless if you agree with it or even understand it, 25minx100 runs+ is a very large amount of time. Speed runs will not stop unless the game changes, SE has tried to "fix" speed runs, but unless every dungeon gives the exact same reward and takes the exact amount of time to complete regardless of party setup/skill, there will always be a faster path. This is fact, it will not go away, the gear treadmill was asked for and this is one of the many things that always come along with it that people refuse to understand/accept.

Edit: Full DL/Relic (+1) req's is required in able to get 25min AK runs, or 18min pratoriums, otherwise AK is 45min and prae is 30min+ at best. If you do not like req's, start your own group and stop bashing those with enough drive to make their own groups.

[Ayiana_Arch]

You, like many others, just do not understand that the game requires what you seem to hate...

See, that's where you're wrong. I understand this game requires speed runs. I do them all the time. But what I'm saying is that even with a speed run, people are still complaining about others because they don't meet their standards. And that is what turns people away. There are people in this game that refuse to play with anyone else if they don't see eye to eye. Yes, I get groups together. But say you weren't in any FC or LS and you hit 50. You had to do CM and Prae to finish your game. You use the DF because nobody in shout will take you since you're new. You get bitched for not having the gear that everyone else has and watching the cutscenes. Then you're kicked. That is what I am talking about.

[Reiterpallasch]

You're a special kind of bad if you get kicked from duty finder groups, especially considering the feature isn't even in game yet.

[Ayiana_Arch]

You're a special kind of bad if you get kicked from duty finder groups, especially considering the feature isn't even in game yet.

While it isn't implemented and frankly shouldn't be, it's the kind of attitude people are getting.

[Sove92]

I think the problem lies in some people doing speedruns via DF. Fixed parties have a right to choose their party members but a DF party does not.

- First timer uses DF to enter Castrum.
- Gets in a speedrun group
- "Skip the CS or you're griefing"
- Ignores them, the newcomer has the right to watch the cutscenes
- Gets harassed

Now there are people trying to DF AK while undergeared (full AF and 49+ other stuff is enough to beat it, but say that to 90% of AK parties). Same thing, these people are relentlessly harassed.

People feel that they are entitled to choose their party members in DF, when they are not. If I get a bad party member in DF, I see how far it goes and leave after it becomes obvious this is going nowhere, no harassment needed.

[SchalaZeal]

Like I said before in another post, that was what people told me. I needed at least two or three DL pieces before I could take on WP and AK and have a chance of survival, along with either the GC weapon or the Ifrit weapon. It might be different for every server. Who knows. But this is my experience from the server I'm currently playing on.

WP is easy without any DL, in full AF and with some under-40 accessories.
Tried AK with that gear today. Wiped 10 times vs Wall. Wiped 4 times vs Psychflayer (in the same 120 minute block). Didn't even come close to wipe in WP, and did it 2 more times just for tomes.

While it's doable in full AF, it takes a lot of game experience and fast reflexes...and ease with movement (movement is not my strength, the timing and strategy and management is - I hardly ever run out of MP except when people die and the tank needs constant spam-heals - and I'm hardly ever 'not doing anything'). So AK plays to the strength of some, not to mine, and probably many others. And I need a margin. DL provides it.

[Svalitz]

I'm just gonna leave a little story here I shared with some others in my LS...(in two parts)

I just did a Wanderer's run where we lost at the jelly boss (WHM went down) and the tank proceeded to treat us all like babies who didn't know anything about anything in game at all, and made FUN of me for having a Relic weapon, and accused me of having to pay for Titan, THEN tried to blame me for the wipe because I didn't know my "Dragoon Rotations".

Oh EXCUSE ME for not playing this game EXACTLY like the internet TELLS YOU TO. No thanks, I'll use my move sets how I want WHEN I want thank you.