Fixing the Markets. As much our problem as SE's .

[Haibel]

I've been considering this also. I see a lot of people picking up the crafting classes, and it doesn't take much effort to level them, so I definitely do believe a fairly high percentage of players will not need the markets as much. There will be some things they'll buy there (materials you can't get from an NPC) but by and large, they'll be able to make anything they want.

I think your assumption is just that, an assumption. SE's own census released 24 September show the avg crafting level over all servers is level 18 on legacy and 13 on non legacy.
it always seems there are more than there really is. I think I'm out of responses after this post. I hope this lives on.

[soshifood]

snip

I agree with the first, to an extent. If you're certain that prices will rise again in the future, keeping yours the same can help you earn more. I see this more as a matter business skills rather than a problem with the economy.

For the second one, it's true more analytics would help us plan better. Question now would be if SE omitted this on purpose. When there is lacking price information, people are more likely to make or lose a lot. While a huge disparity between rich and poor might be bad in the real world, consequences are not the same in a game. It's possible SE purposely wants the economy to be this way. If you lose, you always have the chance of making more, because it's not like your character is going to die. Collecting materials is also pretty easy. I've had less than 1000 gil. Crafting a few leathers got me back to 80k. It's like a mini-game of business in which you will definitely make money as long as you play it smart.

Some people might disagree with me, but that's how I see it.

[Haibel]

The makers of Eve Online, a sandbox MMO, have real world economists on staff. That game's entire economy is player driven, so much so that they needed to hire economists to ensure a stable marketplace.

The economy in Eve plays a much larger role in that game. The only real comparisons between the two games is that they both
have economy. It's been forever since I have played Eve and so what are some things does that would be a benefit to XIV?

[SariyahBlackmane]

Please help! I am still trying to find your use of "alliteration".

[Orsnoire]

Ok, so first two points, then I'll discuss some real issues with the economy:

1) If a player sells to the market board for less than they could get from a vendor, then yes, that's just dumb.
2) If a player sells to the market board for even 1 gil higher than they could get from a vendor (even 1 gil higher than for an entire stack, after factoring in tax), then that's economic theory at work.

If you're complaining about 1, then sure, I agree with you. Solution to 1? Buy up stuff from all the dopes and sell to the vendors. You make a bunch of gil AND help save the economy in one move. Congratulations!

If you're complaining about 2, then eh...yeah. That's just silly.

As for the post talking about the problems with the market, you're right, those are a few obvious issues (I wouldn't even label them real problems) with the market.
A) Reselling quest items only has increased the supply, without increasing demand, so naturally the price goes down. This isn't a real problem (I'll talk about why further down).
B) Only selling pre-set stacks isn't a real problem, either. Solution: farm less (or see the first solution to problem 1).
C) Knowing the vendor-sell price for a given item, or even if that items sells from vendors. Erm...you realize that it's good for the economy for players to sell items for cheaper than the vendors sell the same item? Maybe not... Oh, and it's also good for players if they know these systems to be able to buy items from vendors and relist them on the market. Both of these are working as intended. Any other complaints are really just problem 1 in disguise, and for those complaints, see solution to problem 1.

Now, let's talk about A, and the elephant in the room. The elephant in the room here is that demand has a limited lifespan. People will stop needing gear, and in the relatively near future. The (also limited) solution to this is materia. You know all those quest items you got? Spirit bind them, convert them, and sell the materia. That's your most reasonable option, really.

Furthermore, demand is constrained by money supply (and I know, some of you budding economists don't get that, but don't worry, you'll cover it later in your macroeconomics course). One of the reasons why the markets are crashing is exactly the problem many of us brought up weeks ago. The money supply in the game is too small. This has led to a natural deflationary pressure across the entire economy, and has, ultimately, slowed down demand. It remains to be seen if the gil drops in high-level dungeons will remedy this problem, but for the time being you can expect the markets to further crumble and to have more and more things listed for astronomically low prices.

Edit: one final point, about people asserting that economics doesn't apply to in-game markets. You couldn't be more wrong. Economic principles play out every hour on the market wards, exactly as one would expect them to who studies economics. Just because you don't understand it well enough to see the trends and market pressures doesn't meant they're not there or that they don't obey the principles of market forces laid out in economics...oh, and those of us who DO understand them are making a killing, even in down markets.

[Arkista]

Its pretty sad how people keep undercutting but that's their loss. I picked up an HQ ilvl70 piece today for just over 300k while the same HQ piece is going for 1mil all day long.

[Jagutai]

Its pretty sad how people keep undercutting but that's their loss. I picked up an HQ ilvl70 piece today for just over 300k while the same HQ piece is going for 1mil all day long.

There is nothing wrong with that if they are still making profit. If they make less profit, that is their decision. But the amount of profit they want to make is up to them.

I usually sell items for lower than what a lot of people list because I am still making a massive 100% profit. I would rather have it sell quickly so I make 3 or 4 and set them all lower and make 400% profit rather than 1 item at 150% profit that won't sell.

[Stormrider]

Something that I don't see addressed is skill up items. You have to consider if someone is dumping a bunch of stuff on the AH they might have been skilling up on it. So they already got the value they wanted from it. Same I may have to pick a stack of cotton before I can get to next level Botanist all the value was in XP the cotton is worthless to me.

Also I haven't really seen a skill up guide for crafting. But in most games getting up there are levels where the skill up item is worthless and you just vendor it as a huge loss. It is going to take a long time but eventually this will mostly stabilize. Once most people have crafted and leveled what they wanted there should not be a glut of crafted stuff.

One thing original post implied to me was people are not valuing the time they play. Maybe they are valuing the time just how they see fit. It is not our place to judge. Marketing for less then vendoring is a little weird though.

[soshifood]

Furthermore, demand is constrained by money supply (and I know, some of you budding economists don't get that, but don't worry, you'll cover it later in your macroeconomics course). One of the reasons why the markets are crashing is exactly the problem many of us brought up weeks ago. The money supply in the game is too small. This has led to a natural deflationary pressure across the entire economy, and has, ultimately, slowed down demand. It remains to be seen if the gil drops in high-level dungeons will remedy this problem, but for the time being you can expect the markets to further crumble and to have more and more things listed for astronomically low prices.

I think I have to agree with you. I didn't quite notice back then, but prices have actually fallen by quite an amount on my server. The extra gil from dungeons is a more than welcome addition for me.

[Bloodwillow]

For me it's not the low prices that are the problem, it's the ungodly prices the botters and farmers put things like shards and aldgoat skins at. Jesus. Can't fight them for the materials, and can't win trying to sell for them. Have to bit the bullet and pay out one's butt.