OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

[Alu79]

Well, that's your problem. Stop comparing yourself to whm and start providing real evidence that shows

1. What is required for scholar x 2 to successfully complete an encounter
2. Why the current build does not support the required output, or otherwise how the character design acts as a barrier to producing that output
3. Once you have proven change is required, offer suggestions on how to fix the data backed issue.

This thread is 32 pages long, and I haven't seen one serious post that included data! Even the WoW QQ forum posts had SOME data. There is already agreement that half the class needs fixing with the pet.

You are an absolute trip. You clearly haven't read the whole thread or you are simply ignoreing everything Sharrazisspecial has posted. Dunno which, and don't care at this point because I am exhausted speaking to you.

[sharazisspecial]

Well, that's your problem. Stop comparing yourself to whm and start providing real evidence that shows

1. What is required for scholar x 2 to successfully complete an encounter
2. Why the current build does not support the required output, or otherwise how the character design acts as a barrier to producing that output
3. Once you have proven change is required, offer suggestions on how to fix the data backed issue.

This thread is 32 pages long, and I haven't seen one serious post that included data! Even the WoW QQ forum posts had SOME data. There is already agreement that half the class needs fixing with the pet.

2 sch need to be able to heal 1400-1900 per cast. Ok i cant remember how much the enrage ticks for accurately. Youtube shows it ticking as high as 1900 or as low as 900 which i assumed is due to damage being blocked by adloquium.

1 sch+1whm =fine
320 +680+220medica 2 tick=1220 hp healed + 320 damage blocked
2 whm =fine
680+680 +440 medica 2 tick=1800 hp healed
2 sch= fail
320+320=640 healed 320 blocked

[ApolloGenX]

You are an absolute trip. You clearly haven't read the whole thread or you are simply ignoreing everything Sharrazisspecial has posted. Dunno which, and don't care at this point because I am exhausted speaking to you.

You mean the fuzzy math, right? You have read the other comments in the thread that have questions about it, right? I realize that you prefer speculative math that conveniently agrees with your assertations, but data is the best way to show a less ... biased example of the issue at hand.

[ApolloGenX]

2 sch need to be able to heal 1300-1500 in about 1 cast back to back for turn 4 enrage

2 sch
640+320

Snipped out irrelevant part.

So you are showing that the lack of stacking shields creates a situation where scholar output isn't enough to meet the encounter requirements.

Of course the next step is to take to adequately geared scholars and find out what they actually output... and if it is possible what gear is required to do it, yes? Then you can show that the content is not doable at the appropriate gear level, and something must be fixed.

(Personally, I like boosting the pet AE heal, and with UI improvements being able to control when it is cast, preferably via macro-but that requires a pet fix first)

[sharazisspecial]

Then you can show that the content is not doable at the appropriate gear level

People a use gear argument to justify warrior being terrible and left out every raid.
Warrior tank currently gets one shot by bosses
Paladin tank groups currently have coil 1-4 on farm.

What makes you think that full ilvl70 and a relic weapon is not enough to beat coil 1-4? because it is and coil seems tuned for that gear level.

Why is the aoe damage of turn 4 healable by 2 whm , 1 whm 1 sch but not 2sch? It because 2 sch is under powered and not do not aoe heal enough without a whm due to shield mechanics.

Anyways i think that a relic + ilvl70 sch heals like 320hp/320shield succor. A relic ilvl70 whm heals like 665 medica. Due to whm much higher base mind.

Watch videos of coil 4 near the end. See how much the damage is ticking for. But keep in mind that succor is blocked some of the damages. So it appears lower then it actully is ocassioanly. Then you can do the math and see how the fight is mathematically impossible for 2 sch . Which is unbalanced.

1 sch can block 320, heal 320 damage
1 whm can heal with medica 665 damage and medica 2 regen for 230.
Now i cant remember if it necessary to pop divine seal for this part to heal enough. I also am not taking into account the food or party buff that improved healing or if mantra is required too.

[Professor_JoJo]

but counting the crit heal and adding a crit bubble equivalent to it is in my books considered a critical bubble.

[sharazisspecial]

but counting the crit heal and adding a crit bubble equivalent to it is in my books considered a critical bubble.

Jojo did even read the thread or even play/know anything about sch? why even mention crits when

1. Succor does not get double shields. Succor's crit shields are equal to critical heal.
2. current base crit chance is around 20% and every +16 crit rating adds 1% crit rate. Gearing for crit require alot of time and mythos atm. Especially since sch relic has spell speed instead off crit. So currently crit rate is low and not something that can be reliable at all. Even if you manage to get fully geared in allagan/af2 somehow crit would be around 35-38%. Gearing for crit means lower other stats such as det which means lower non crit heals.

[ApolloGenX]

Right, and I don't think anyone is disputing that when there are two scholars one suffers essentially 50 percent loss on thier AE heal. I am just saying that showing the data might help quantify exactly how much the second scholar loses.

Two whms don't suffer a penalty, that's really all that needs to be said- now we should try to figure out how much the penalty really ends up being for 2nd scholar and figure out a way around that without fundamentally changing how the SCH heals or greatly affecting single SCH healing ability.

[sharazisspecial]

Right, and I don't think anyone is disputing that when there are two scholars one suffers essentially 50 percent loss on thier AE heal. I am just saying that showing the data might help quantify exactly how much the second scholar loses.

Two whms don't suffer a penalty, that's really all that needs to be said- now we should try to figure out how much the penalty really ends up being for 2nd scholar and figure out a way around that without fundamentally changing how the SCH heals or greatly affecting single SCH healing ability.

And 50% loss to adloquium

[Crescent_Dusk]

Right, and I don't think anyone is disputing that when there are two scholars one suffers essentially 50 percent loss on thier AE heal. I am just saying that showing the data might help quantify exactly how much the second scholar loses.Two whms don't suffer a penalty, that's really all that needs to be said- now we should try to figure out how much the penalty really ends up being for 2nd scholar and figure out a way around that without fundamentally changing how the SCH heals or greatly affecting single SCH healing ability.

It's not just 2 scholars.

For some reason WHM keep comparing Succor to Medica when it really has to compare to the HP return of Medica II.

No, Whispering Dawn does not have the potency of WHM regen, and even if the cd were halved it is not ON DEMAND AOE. It has a cooldown. It can't be spammed for every aoe phase. There will be aoe regen downtime for the scholar. There will not be aoe regen downtime for the white mage -- they can cast it whenever.

It's quite simple. Bring a Scholar and a WHM. Prohibit the WHM from using Medica II and see how you do in AoE phases. That's currently what Scholar is -- a WHM with no Medica II tool to cope with aoe damage.


You are ENTIRELY dependent on the WHM to get the raid back up with a Medica II. Medica II is not an optional tool -- it is MANDATORY.