Something needs to be done about tanks ruining the dungeon queue

[Crica]

cant force ppl to play - other then not letting anyone leave at all, there is nothing that can be done

if you dont want to deal with long queues, play a tank or healer or make friends with players who play tank and healer while you are sitting in queues as a dps...

[JPPILIP]

Or you could you know role tank. It helps a lot my beta character was DPs and I regretted it. Being a tank is the best seeing as how tank control almost everything and a good tank can carry a team.

[complexxL9]

For the third time in 4 hours (on a 30-45min queue, mind you) I've been having tanks that ruin the dungeon experience completely by simply running for the nearest 2-3 chests and then simply leaving, forcing the others to requeue. As a DPS this is game breaking due to the fact that queues are very long to begin with.

Any word from SE of this? Or is the the good ol' "wall of silence" / "working as intended" as usual?

Fix incoming: remove loot chests from group content instances.

[JPPILIP]

Fix incoming: remove loot chests from group content instances.

I love it let's remove all loot and Gil in game and everyone wear pink bunny outfits with Nerf bats as weapons that would fix a lot of the problems with this game

[KogaDrake]

easy fix to this problem, queue with people from your FC, linkshell, friends list, or from people in MD via shouts. As a DPS its always faster than solo DF queue, and when the players lose the "I'll never see this person again (i'm not on their server)" attitude they are not total jerks.

I rarely use the DF because it is very rare I dont fill out my group just from asking FC/LS, and when I dont its a single spot we get via the DF.

I have personally never seen this happen from any run the DF, nor have I herd of anyone from my FC/LS. its not as common as people make it sound and is easily avoidable by not single queuing. it is an MMO, use the community to make your life easier...

[Azazela]

Had a person whine that I suck as a tank and he waited forever for the dungeon, while I get instant queues. If you are a good tank, then go help the tank shortage.

[Nialle]

They should really make Blacklists cross server, and have it so that person is also never matched with you in the DF queue. That would add more accountability, for sure.

[Zumi]

You doing wanders palace, the sword which sells for like 100k comes from the 2nd chest which you can just run to? People will do that because they want to need the sword and make 100k

[Arcaloid]

Are you doing WP? That's the only dungeon I can think of for this kind things to happen.
Maybe you can just move on to do CM runs, as you can get more tomes, and the equipments in WP is not that good.

[Balaur]

Just another symptom of a broken duty finder.

No, this has nothing to do with the DF. This has to do with two convergent yet distinct problems:

1. Loot in chests, and nowhere else.
2. By-passable mobs.

Placing the loot drops from dungeons into chests means it is possible to merely grab the items, and when done leave. It doesn't matter who does this. The healer has a relatively short queue, and can also run to chests and leave upon finding what they are. But the ability to sneak past mobs is also a problem. These mobs are not intelligent. If you move behind the mob -- anywhere; it doesn't matter where, overworld, dungeon, raid -- the mob can't "see" you. It effectively aggros by sight, and that sight is roughly a 180 circle of view.

This entices players, and permits them the means, of making "chest runs," which were possible in the first version and are now being carried out here.

There are two solutions:

Solution A: Place chests behind areas that can only be revealed or unlocked by drops from monsters. This forces the content to be engaged to earn the chest drops. The forced restriction can be carried out to a larger extent by placing a large section of the dungeon into an "engagement" period. If, after playing in the dungeon and engaging a certain number of enemies, which will be less than the number required to gain access to the first drop, the dungeon locks you in. You cannot leave and re-queue for that dungeon as you are on a timer that can last over an hour. This forces players, especially tanks, to maintain contact in the dungeon. This timer clears completely when the final boss is killed, no matter how long it took to do it. Thus, fast runs reward further runs.

Solution B: Monsters drop loot, not chests. This is a big departure from the classic model, but this resolves the issue of just running past the dungeon. It also makes it harder for bots abuse the game by looting chests by porting to them. The drops will not be available to anyone without engaging the fights the dungeons asks you to. If content were meant to be skipped, we should have clearer indications of this skippability. But the content we need to make dungeons like Wanderer's Palace and Amdapor Keep easier are held inside chests that can be suicide-ran to. Of course, this is just for the initial sections. But WP is all one level, and bots can reasonably jump anywhere needed and avoid all mobs. One can adjust this and make it so that chests that are "guarded" cannot be opened unless the mobs that guard it are killed, but this is an extension of Solution A.

Solution C: Make the "trash" less trashy. That is, remove the tedium or the time-consuming, lack of profit from them. You can do this in one of two ways, or even combine them. You can make it so that the mobs are better guaranteed to drop valuable items. As it is, some mobs drop useful items, such as Amdapor hippogryphs dropping hide and sinew. But dullahans drop gil. One gil. Maybe. If you slightly increase the rate on hippogryphs, and make the humanoid and voidsent mobs drop more frequently or HQ level items, the reward from drops increases, and makes one more prone to want to go through them. Alternatively, one can remove several trash packs and replace them with larger, NM style mobs that, rather than guard treasure, drop chunks of HQ items for various players. These can act as mini-bosses along the way to each boss.

Examples: In Amdapor, the initial trash pack is a group of worshippers which include a summoner that attempts to bring out a voidsent. He must be interrupted and killed or you have a four-mob pack instead of three. This is followed by a pack of hippogryphs, a roaming dullahan, another (avoidable) hippogryph pack, another roaming dullahan, a second group of worshippers with a summoner, and a courtyard with dullahans and a hippocerf, with a third worshipper pack before the first boss. Instead, one may remove half of these and interpolate the non-hippogryph portions with a pack of worshippers, a larger-than-normal Dullahan, a NM Hippogryph, and so forth. These larger mobs will guarantee drops. Keeping the vodoriga gargoyle statue spawns from floor two but removing the packs in favor of special mobs, the annoying succubi stay on floor three, but are interpolated with an NM Ahriman or pack of weaker but NM Soul Collectors, each of which drop guaranteed items useful for crafters. And so forth.

Thus, the solutions offered would reward players for retention and "sticking with it," rather than punish players for avoiding annoying and tedious trash. There should be value to the content beyond the three boss chests and the change of getting the bronze pieces. You should be able to walk away with something, as there is no guarantee you, as the player, can get one of the loot pieces given their randomnality. By adding more, but less gear-based items to the loot system, and making the loot system reward players for engaging it, the content becomes more useful to engage, rather than force players to skip in one way or another.