Graphics vs Aesthetics

[DarkReed]

Ok.. I will stand up then.. earlier you typed this..

"Oh but I did. The fact that I didn't say what you like/expect to read doesn't mean that I didn't.
Points are simple:
1) they don't know crap about aesthetics, as much as they don't know crap about game development (lol @ Killzone 2 lacking in aesthetics)
2) aesthetics tend to go down the drain when they're not supported by graphical power. Many Korean and Korean-like MMORPGs that look great from an artificially staged distance and look like a punch in the eye when you actually walk in them are a perfect example of this. "

You first point is the material that got me thinking about this subject. Which is kinda why I am here, it doesnt matter who made the the video, the only thing we take from it is I am rasing the question in regards to this game.

On the second point, you are talking more about the graphics of the game, the draw distance, Fog, the light, the textures. Yes, FF-XIV does have a lot of this. But at the same time, the world needs to feel like a charator in its self. Thats where the Asthetics come in, to me its the way you feel connected to the world, and the way the world will draws you in.

Right now, I don't feel that connection to the game world as have I with many other games I have playied. I do play yes, but only to do leves, to give me a head start when things might come along.

But I am interested to know, just because you raised it. How do you see Killzone 2 as Aestheticly pleaseing?

[Abriael]

Less random once you realize in the actual game that same trick turns badly scripted cutscenes into GRAPHICALLY AMAZING STORY EVENTS!

Cutscenes in FFXIV very rarely use the flycam trick. They're normally quite zoomed in into the scene, and definitely don't try to hide flaws. Try again.

On topic of GW2, you're of course fully entitled to your opinion about it's graphical appearance, but you shouldn't try to sell it to us as anything remotely resembling a fact.

Too bad that it's a fact, gameplay videos are there for everyone to see, as much as the fact that they look no more impressive than any game developed in korea years ago, and lose most if not all of the "omg!" value of the flycam scenes. Expectedly so.
I'm sure GW2 fans coming here to promote it don't like to hear it, but that doesn't make it less of a fact.

Mind you, I fully plan to play GW2 at release, this doesn't mean i can be blinded by simple promotional tricks that have been used in the industry for years. I won't play it for the graphics/art, anyway.

[Abriael]

On the second point, you are talking more about the graphics of the game, the draw distance, Fog, the light, the textures. Yes, FF-XIV does have a lot of this. But at the same time, the world needs to feel like a charator in its self. Thats where the Asthetics come in, to me its the way you feel connected to the world, and the way the world will draws you in.

Can't be drawn in by a world that looks like it's made of cardboard, with characters that seem to be made of foam. That's, by the way, where coherence in graphics and art direction comes into play. One of the best aspects of FFXIV's engine and art direction is that they're coherent between mobiles and world design.

But I am interested to know, just because you raised it. How do you see Killzone 2 as Aestheticly pleaseing?

The art direction in Killzone 2 is one of the most iconic in the industry (the hellghast are a true work of art for instance), the environments show great detail, are extremely realistic, and athmospheric. On top of that there's a great coherence between art direction and graphical power.
The makers of that video just randomly fished one of the most graphically performing games out there and "invented" a lack of aesthetics to prove a false point.

[Augury]

Gotta remember that Extra Credits is an opinion show, and while Daniel Floyd tends to have very valid, intelligent opinions, he also has a tendency to "preach". This aside, I do feel that this applies to XIV pretty well. Not because XIV has a "bad aesthetic", but because there was too much emphasis on graphical power. I feel that future releases of the game should be less graphically demanding but still contain the high-end options available. Simply on the basis that players shouldn't be punished for having expensive PCs to run the game, but it should be playable on more computers.

XIV's actual aesthetic is actually really good, by avoiding the traps of "epic looking" everything. And while there should certainly be gaudy options available, the modest aesthetic is actually rather enjoyable. What XIV needs though is very minor adjustments to add character

[Physic]

Cutscenes in FFXIV very rarely use the flycam trick. They're normally quite zoomed in into the scene, and definitely don't try to hide flaws. Try again.



Too bad that it's a fact, gameplay videos are there for everyone to see, as much as the fact that they look no more impressive than any game developed in korea years ago, and lose most if not all of the "omg!" value of the flycam scenes. Expectedly so.
I'm sure GW2 fans coming here to promote it don't like to hear it, but that doesn't make it less of a fact.

Mind you, I fully plan to play GW2 at release, this doesn't mean i can be blinded by simple promotional tricks that have been used in the industry for years. I won't play it for the graphics/art, anyway.

I think his point was using dramatic angles and what not to hide flaws, and make something more entertaining and believable is the primary tenant of good storytelling, and it is true. Movie makers use various props, and techniques to draw you in to the game.

Your opinion on aesthetics is heavily influenced by graphical power from what you have said, you are apparently a person who prefers high graphics to artistic direction, This is fine, you represent the opposite side, but your opinion is just an opinion, one of many dont assume that your opinion is fact.

Imo guild wars2 has pretty varied and engaging backgrounds, though, the overall direction isnt perfect to me, and sometimes over the top, however, it certainly looks intriguing.
FFXIV also has some pretty good designs really, the main problem is lack of variety, it looks nice in small doses, but the variety is not there, there are points here and there that are interesting and different, but way too much of reusing the same exact layouts, not just the building blocks. This may change as they add to the game though, coerthas for example is amuch better design than black shroud

[Trocien]

Photo of FFXIV


Photo of FFXI

FFXI is a great example of doing more with less. The aesthetics in FFXI look great. Even tho the graphical technology is bad, with low res textures and polygons, the world is absolutely breathtaking.

FFXIV on the other hand is a great example of focusing waay too much on high res polygons and textures, bump mapping, and wannabe reflective surfaces, and focusing too little on making the game actually look great. Because of the emphasis on those things, they had to leave out decent shading making the game look very wacky.

SE totally dropped the ball here. One can only hope that they are totally redoing every zone.

[DarkReed]

I am proberly as a disadvantage, be cause the only thing of Killzone 2 I playied was the Demo. I didn't go for the game, because I felt like I had seen it before. The armor designs and art direction reminded me a lot of Fallout.
To me it didn't feel orginal. With a lot of games conforming to the gray/metalic world, perhaps I got too used to it and missed something.

[Abriael]

Your opinion on aesthetics is heavily influenced by graphical power from what you have said, you are apparently a person who prefers high graphics to artistic direction, This is fine, you represent the opposite side, but your opinion is just an opinion, one of many dont assume that your opinion is fact.

Nope. I'm stating that graphical power needs to be balanced and coherent with art direction. That's not really an opinion, as that' what's conductive to actual quality in a game.

The ones advocating that art direction can stand on it's own without caring crap about the graphics supporting it, normally do so just to look "artsy", but that standpoint is hardly conductive to quality. Quite the contrary.

I am proberly as a disadvantage, be cause the only thing of Killzone 2 I playied was the Demo. I didn't go for the game, because I felt like I had seen it before. The armor designs and art direction reminded me a lot of Fallout.
To me it didn't feel orginal. With a lot of games conforming to the gray/metalic world, perhaps I got too used to it and missed something.

Fallout 1&2 != Fallout 3, especially in art direction and graphics. Fallout 3 was released way, way after Killzone. So, if you see a similarity (that I don't see, by the way, Fallout 3's art direction isn't nearly as dark, gloomy and oppressive as Killzone's. Fallout's armors aren't designed to be nearly as terrifying as the Helghast's) then you might wonder if Fallout 3 copied from Killzone, not the other way around.

Mind you, Originality is by no means a necessary factor for a good or even exceptional art direction, even because at this point complete originality in videogame art is pretty much impossible. Influences are inevitable.

Original != Good
Not original != Bad.

[Tonka]

What you said.

No more than a month or so ago they said they didn't plan on having the option to walk. Then that video I posted came out and they confirmed they were working on it. Not a big deal. Plus, it's not like it will look as fluid and nice as FFXIV's motion capture when it's all finished anyway. But as long as there isn't a little delay every time I start or stop running (or turn etc) I'll be much more happy with this.

And there is plenty of player footage including running around the human city which looks great even on foot, in my opinion. I don't want to really get into it any more as I was just trying to offer an example to the OP and completely except that you don't agree with much or anything I'm saying.

[Abriael]

And there is plenty of player footage including running around the human city which looks great even on foot, in my opinion. I don't want to really get into it any more as I was just trying to offer an example to the OP and completely except that you don't agree with much or anything I'm saying.

That's exactly the videos i'm talking about. I'm not sure about your standards, but that's exactly what I refer as "usual Korean MMO fare". It's not bad enough to turn me off the game, that's pretty damn for sure (I'm hoping that they'll do "public quests" right this time around so that I can finally enjoy the concept), but it's nowhere that impressive. It's pretty much on the same level that Korean mmorpg offered in the last couple years.