Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Feathery]

Ýou can't make an effective tank that has practically no mitigation and gets all of its survivability from self-healing. People tend to point to WoW and Death Knights as an example of a self-sustaining tank, but WoW's tank classes are nowhere near as different as FFXIV's. Not even slightly. They all have baseline mitigation within ~10% of eachother, and they all have relatively equal defensive cooldowns. The difference is in minor mechanics; DK self-healing compensates for the lack of block, and Blizzard would never be so stupid as to try and make a class with the raw survivability of a fury warrior, throw in a bigger HP pool, and then attempt to give them self-healing as the only substitute for the enormous difference in survivability between this and other tanks. I like to think that no competent developer would be so thoughtless and out of touch with MMORPG basics.

While this might be true right now, I haven't play since WotLK it is however not completely accurate. In Vanilla WoW back in 2004 there were 3 tanks, Protection Warriors, Protection Paladins and Feral-bear Druids. However only protection warriors were viable tanks, it was a combination of bad mechanics (prot paladins had no snap aggro) and incredibly poor itemization (since feral druids could only wear leather and there was no tank-oriented leather gear) that would take them AN ENTIRE EXPANSION to fix. Yes as a matter of fact feral and protection tanks weren't viable until the release of TBC 2007 a whopping 3 years later, it took them that long to fix this.

[Warlyx]

While this might be true right now, I haven't play since WotLK it is however not completely accurate. In Vanilla WoW back in 2004 there were 3 tanks, Protection Warriors, Protection Paladins and Feral-bear Druids. However only protection warriors were viable tanks, it was a combination of bad mechanics (prot paladins had no snap aggro) and incredibly poor itemization (since feral druids could only wear leather and there was no tank-oriented leather gear) that would take them AN ENTIRE EXPANSION to fix. Yes as a matter of fact feral and protection tanks weren't viable until the release of TBC 2007 a whopping 3 years later, it took them that long to fix this.

and not even on TBC druids are paladins were able to tank RAIDS , heroics and trash yeah but druids and paladins were not able to tank raid bosses. (maybe druids in kara....)

SE needs to fix Warriors and pronto , because by the time they fix warriors the ppl that wanted to tank rerolled Paladin....

ppl that rolled warrior , rolled that job for TANK , let them TANK, no1 wants to roll a class that is the offtank , adds tank ...or the option if there are no paladins avaliable.

[Faction]

and not even on TBC druids are paladins were able to tank RAIDS , heroics and trash yeah but druids and paladins were not able to tank raid bosses. (maybe druids in kara....)

So it's OK that a game released in 2013 has amateurish balance problems because a game from 2007 did too?

Here I thought you were supposed to learn from the mistakes of those that came before you.

[Rios-Drakoon]

Wrong, i was Paladin MT in my Guild in TBC, and i did a great Job, Druid dont know, but Paladin was really a good Tank with TBC. before TBC only Warrior was Tank, after TBC the People could choose, witch playstayle they like more as a Tank, Paladin, Druid, Warrior later DrakKnight, it was wayne, all of them could tank.

Here, SE Say we have 2 Tank Class, Paladin and Warrior, but right now ist more like : Tank and a half ass backed tank

[Surfie]

and not even on TBC druids are paladins were able to tank RAIDS , heroics and trash yeah but druids and paladins were not able to tank raid bosses. (maybe druids in kara....)

SE needs to fix Warriors and pronto , because by the time they fix warriors the ppl that wanted to tank rerolled Paladin....

ppl that rolled warrior , rolled that job for TANK , let them TANK, no1 wants to roll a class that is the offtank , adds tank ...or the option if there are no paladins avaliable.

Druids were superior in Sunwell to Warriors. There were certain gimmicks in TBC that made Warrior tanks preferred though such as Illidan. Paladins were better for heroics and for Felmyst. But once WOTLK hit, Warriors became the worst tank and have pretty much been the worst tank since then.

The actual design intention during Vanilla and TBC was for Warriors to be the best tank. It didn't always work out so they had to put certain gimmicks such as fears, etc.

[Duelle]

and not even on TBC druids and paladins were able to tank RAIDS , heroics and trash yeah but druids and paladins were not able to tank raid bosses. (maybe druids in kara....)

Bear Druids were pretty decent in TBC with the only real "lol u cant tank this" fight being Illidan (since Illidan had Shear and it could only be mitigated by forcing a guaranteed shield block, with only Prot warriors and paladins could).

You are not understanding me - partially my fault. My thought would be to create mechanics that would allow WARs to do things very easily that PLDs would struggle with, through various adjustments. I am simply presenting an idea that would be alternative to have two different classes competing for the exact same role.

Except this defeats the purpose of having a tank roster, which takes us back to the why it is a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something while the other is designed to be inferior for the sake of being different.

[Ehayte]

Except this defeats the purpose of having a tank roster, which takes us back to the why it is a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something while the other is designed to be inferior for the sake of being different.

- What is the purpose of having a tank roster? If I defeat it, does it drop loot?
- Why is it a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something, as long as the other is preferred for another thing?
- Why is an off-tank specialist inferior if they are superior at off-tanking? (I am NOT saying WARs are this right now)

I would re-roll as WAR the second I get home today if I knew that they would become the elite off-tank class that uses complicated skills and mechanics to manage specific groups of mobs in a specialized manner. That sounds awesome to me, I would log off happy every night tanking in group dungeons, or saving the skin of my friends in raids by doing things no one else can. Especially those dirty Pallys.

[Duelle]

- Why is it a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something, as long as the other is preferred for another thing?
- Why is an off-tank specialist inferior if they are superior at off-tanking?

Loaded question, but fine. Because a tank is a tank is a tank. And when one is less of a tank than another (which is what "off-tank specialist" boils down to), you run into representation problems and balance problems, not to mention idiotic labels and stigmas. A PLD can off-tank just fine and still mitigate damage better than a WAR, so whatever pipe dream you have about WAR being an "off-tank specialist" is moot.

Both jobs are vying for the same role, and as such should be interchangeable while being mechanically different enough to have their own identity. Wangstrong's post is pretty much spot on in that regard.

[Ehayte]

Both jobs are vying for the same role, and as such should be interchangeable while being mechanically different enough to have their own identity. Wangstrong's post is pretty much spot on in that regard.

Yeah, so, I don't get why you think that I think that WARs are amazing off-tanks right now. They need to be fixed, unless we are all missing something. "Off tank specialist" would mean someone that has special abilities that allow them to tank multiple, or specific, mobs with greater efficiency. Not someone who isn't quite as good as the other tank, so they are subjugated to a lessor role.