Have MMO players lost their way?

[Gunaklou]

I never understood this argument in music or art and i sure don't get it for video games either. Why do people seem to think that something has to be niche for it to be great and everything that is "mainstream" "sellout" is average?

I am not a 100% with you on this, but you make a good point: I work with a lot of artists and most of them can't understand why they can't get paid for the art they did. Because nobody really like it! Yes it would be awesome that somebody pays you for the thing you really like to do, but if there is no demand, no need of supply.

The same applies for games: making a niche game might appeal to a group of players, but making a MMO these days cost so much money that it is a big freaking risk to make a niche game. So for any new big mmo, do not expect it to be the game you exactly want because what you want will most likely only appeal to a small group of player.

[Synfrag]

snip

There is nothing new here. I did maybe 10% of the content in XI over 7 years, usually because I didn't need a 1000g reward for 2 hours of effort. I think you are confusing MMOs with just straight RPGers who are generally completionists. MMOs are about challenge, gearing, socializing etc. Not necessarily all about experiencing all the content but rather the content you want to experience.

[Gunaklou]

(that 1000 characters limit is a pain :S)

@Frothylager: the point I do not really agree is that niche game can be awesome game, but will only appeal to a small group of ppl; all depend on what you are looking for in a game.

[jpem]

I have to disagree a bit to this. Take Dark Souls / Demons Souls for example.

Hard, niche games. Very stoic, very unforgiving. Neither had astronomical sales numbers, because they are pretty hard games. If the studio wants more money, they need to make the game more mainstream.

But honestly, it's just how things have to be. Your argument is pretty bad. It's like saying One direction is clearly "good" music because millions of girls like it. We know that's not true. Millions of people eat at McDonalds, that doesn't make it a great place to eat.

Yeah, sales =/= quality. Being mainstream doesn't make it inherently bad. There are tons of shitty unknown games. But the majority of mmo's are just the same old, same old. There was many successful and unique games in the past that had their own loyal fan base and didn't need to try and get the WoW market. I mean EVE is doing pretty well for itself as the one truly unique mmo, but why hasn't there been another game like that? Why is it always the same damn WoW style game with a differently colored ribbon?

[Oriachim]

If you don't have the time to play an MMO because you are busy in real life...maybe this MMO is not for you. Everybody knows by now that a MMO will take a long time to play and you will have to sacrifice you social life to a certain point if you want to do end-game content.

The instant gratification is also true; is it me or kids these days have a mentality that everyone deserved to be a winner? You have to work for your gratification buddy

Uhm, you don't need to sacrifice your social life. (otherwise I'd question your existence as a human being). 1-4 hours a day will get you where you want. Considering the instances are short enough and it's not exactly hard to get to level 50. Not everyone plays to be the best either.

[DrPancakes]

Uhm, you don't need to sacrifice your social life. (otherwise I'd question your existence as a human being). 1-4 hours a day will get you where you want. Considering the instances are short enough and it's not exactly hard to get to level 50. Not everyone plays to be the best either.

The fact you don't see this as a lot of time.

Is utterly hilarious

Makes me question if you know what a social life is.

Edit: and just said McDonald's is tasty. What is real anymore.

[Oriachim]

I have to disagree a bit to this. Take Dark Souls / Demons Souls for example.

Hard, niche games. Very stoic, very unforgiving. Neither had astronomical sales numbers, because they are pretty hard games. If the studio wants more money, they need to make the game more mainstream.

But honestly, it's just how things have to be. Your argument is pretty bad. It's like saying One direction is clearly "good" music because millions of girls like it. We know that's not true. Millions of people eat at McDonalds, that doesn't make it a great place to eat.

Newsflash: If millions of people don't play Demon Souls/Dark Souls because they don't like how hard it is. It's not as great as you're making out. If millions of people enjoy FF 14 because it's to their taste, then it is an amazing game.

Bad example with the McDonalds... I go there for cheap, fast food. If the food wasn't at least tasty, then I wouldn't go there.

[Gunaklou]

MMOs are about challenge, gearing, socializing etc. Not necessarily all about experiencing all the content but rather the content you want to experience.

But by skipping content that you know is there, you limiting yourself. I get that all the content might not be that interesting to you, but if you buy a game knowing that you won't do half the stuff there is to do, is not a good thing imo. For example, I hate ppv because I suck at it and I am not that willing to work on it, so I skip pvp, but you will never see me complain that there is missing content in the game after I have completed all PvE content. You are saying MMOs are about challenge, gearing, socializing, but there is also, pvp (when available), exploring, crafting, helping others, and leveling. Its not about what YOU want to experience it is about what the game wants you to experience.

[Oriachim]

The fact you don't see this as a lot of time.

Is utterly hilarious

Makes me question if you know what a social life is.

I have a 12 hour shift pattern job every couple of days. I go out on weekends with friends. I see my family. I use phone calls to ring friends. Yes, I have a social life. Just because I can manage my time better than a spotty fat man who lives in his moms basement, doesn't make me not so.

[Dijana]

I like following a story. I like leveling at my own pace and enjoy the journey along the way, probably why in games I like pet classes most, it feels like I have a companion. In WoW I would stay in a zone until I finished every quest, even if I'd already over-leveled the place. If I've already gone past a dungeon I dont need, I like to go back and do it, just to see it. Whenever someone asks if anyone can/wants to help them with a fight or dungeon, so long as Im not already in another dungeon or about to go out, I'll do it. I'll go back and do things just because they're fun- I have 0 reason to do Ifrit HM now since I have the book already, but I just have fun in that fight so I like to do it again when Im bored. I work 5 days a week, and I go out on weekends with my husband, that's fine I'll just do the content when I have time.

At the same time though, if people only want to do something once and never revisit it once they have their clear or gear, that's fine. If I want people to let me enjoy the game my way, I'll let them enjoy it their way. The only time it will bother me is if someone goes out of their way to help them, then they don't return that help. Such as if (just making an example up out of my head) two people with the same job were to farm Ifrit over and over for the weapon, one passes to let the other take it, and then the guy who gets the weapon refuses to go again to help the other guy get his. That is the only time it will bother me.