SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

[shinros]

My pet contributing ~20-30% of my DPS makes me feel like a team with it.

Crevox said it best majority of your dps does not come from your summon the most control you get out of a summoner is just waiting for garuda to use contagion at the right point. Then its standard rotation with fester all your main damage comes from fester and dots. Majority of the time they will be on auto attack, there needs to be more spells that interact with the summon.

All the scholars I talk to tell me they have their fairies skills on their tool bar and use her skills at the right moment since in order to heal properly they need each other. If your egi dies as a summoner its not the end of the world its not even really that big of a deal. If the fairy for the scholar dies in a boss battle? Now that is really bad.

Once you have garuda? There is no reason to use any other egi which annoys me greatly too. Carbuncle outshines ifrit as soon as you hit 40.

I will post this again. I don't expect square to completely revamp the class because that is silly they could simply change current spells slightly to interact more with the egi. Something like what Trayes posted if ifrit was more like in the idea below I would have a reason to use all three egi's in a fight. Instead of just using garuda.

Trayes wrote this in a topic. I think square should of went with something like this IMO.

I am sure no one cares what I think but I do not enjoy the dot summoner with lame pets. If i had to change the playstyle away from dots into something else it would look like this.

Ruin: 80 potency. Grants you and your pet a buff depending on what pet you have out.
(Ifrit: Grants the user and pet stacking buff that increases damage by 5%, stacks 2 times)
(Titan: Lowers damage taken by the user and the pet by 5% for 4 seconds. Does not stack)
(Garuda: Grants the user and the pet 3% spell speed. Stacks 4 times. Garuda gains double from this effect)

Ruin II: 80 potency. This spell and the pet do a special bonus attack.
(Ifrit: Apply a 15 potency dot for 18 seconds.) Both the player and the pet apply this dot.
(Titan: Gain health equal to damage dealt.) Both the player and the pet heal based on the damage of thier attack.
(Garuda: Deal half damage to all enemies near the target) Both the player and the pet do the aoe damage.)

Now these are just ideas of how I would have made the summoner feel closer to their pets while adding some depth to the overall playstyle of the summoner. Also this is me only changing 2 skills. I am sure I could give a huge list of ideas.

Like an aether flow spell that grants a party buff based on the summon out.
Garuda would buff move speed and spell speed
Titan would give everyone a small stone skin
Ifrit would add "Enfire" to all melee attacks

Or it could just pass whatever the Ruin 1 buff is to the party for a short time. Like 5 seconds. Everyone gains 10% damage or everyone takes 5% less damage or everyone casts faster. Who knows. But I would have tried to make more of a connection.

[Nemhy]

I'm okay with Summoners being a DoT class, just rework the pet skills please! Contagion is the only skill worth using...other than that they are just auto attack Turrets

[Crevox]

Yeah, exactly. Scholar and fairy work as a team to keep everyone alive; that's a partnership, basically a 50/50. You need your fairy.

Egi is a nice DPS boost. If he's dead, you won't really notice until you have to use contagion (of course a good summoner will notice immediately, but it's horrible that he's so unimportant to the rotation that it can happen).

[shinros]

I'm okay with Summoners being a DoT class, just rework the pet skills please! Contagion is the only skill worth using...other than that they are just auto attack Turrets

This is what I want. I keep saying I have beef with the pets (not the summoner spells) they need to interact more with the summoner.

[Kevee]

Except all that DPS (which is still very little, btw, as a SMN is supposed to do the majority or all of its DPS from the summon) is from auto attacks, and has absolutely no gameplay with it. You tell it to attack and forget about it, and press cooldowns when they're up.

The problem is that the gameplay is not oriented around the summon. Your rotation has nothing to do with the pet at all besides pressing his cooldowns.

Pre FF-10 there was no Gameplay, either. It was a spell.

"Your rotation has nothing to do with the pet besides the part it has to do with the pet."

And guess what? Your rotation actually changes when you can use contagion.

Crevox said it best majority of your dps does not come from your summon the most control you get out of a summoner is just waiting for garuda to use contagion at the right point. Then its standard rotation with fester all your main damage comes from fester and dots. Majority of the time they will be on auto attack, there needs to be more spells that interact with the summon.

Why?

All the scholars I talk to tell me they have their fairies skills on their tool bar and use her skills at the right moment since in order to heal properly they need each other. If your egi dies as a summoner its not the end of the world its not even really that big of a deal. If the fairy for the scholar dies in a boss battle? Now that is really bad.

Go ask any other DPS if losing 20-30% of their damage is bad.

It is. It's significant.

Once you have garuda? There is no reason to use any other egi which annoys me greatly too. Carbuncle outshines ifrit as soon as you hit 40.

Titan is better solo, and Ifrit, while it has a niche(on-demand instant stun), I've never had to use it because everyone else has a stun.

Now these are just ideas of how I would have made the summoner feel closer to their pets while adding some depth to the overall playstyle of the summoner. Also this is me only changing 2 skills. I am sure I could give a huge list of ideas.

And if you do something like this, you'd have to nerf the player's damage.

Like an aether flow spell that grants a party buff based on the summon out.
Garuda would buff move speed and spell speed
Titan would give everyone a small stone skin
Ifrit would add "Enfire" to all melee attacks

That has nothing to do with "interacting with your pets" because they may as well just be a buff CD you, yourself, can use and cut out the middle man so it's less awkward.

Or it could just pass whatever the Ruin 1 buff is to the party for a short time. Like 5 seconds. Everyone gains 10% damage or everyone takes 5% less damage or everyone casts faster. Who knows. But I would have tried to make more of a connection.

SMN is a DPS class. We already have support abilities through battle rez, Virus, and Eye for an Eye. Miasma/Miasma II also have a use with the snare/heal debuff.

[Crevox]

Pre FF-10 there was no Gameplay, either. It was a spell.

"Your rotation has nothing to do with the pet besides the part it has to do with the pet."

And guess what? Your rotation actually changes when you can use contagion.

Oh no, it slightly delays when I have to refresh my DoTs. Scary.

And yeah, I would prefer spells that call massive creatures to do nukes even over this. Any job system final fantasy (tactics for example, WHICH BY THE WAY is where our relic is from) does it better than this.

[Kevee]

Oh no, it slightly delays when I have to refresh my DoTs. Scary.

And yeah, I would prefer spells that call massive creatures to do nukes even over this. Any job system final fantasy (tactics for example, WHICH BY THE WAY is where our relic is from) does it better than this.

No, it changes it by making Miasma II viable ST and giving you another instant-cast spell to use Fester after.


And I think it's unique, in the realm of Final Fantasy, and something I enjoy.
They've done unique before, and there's no staple "Summoner" class, or a "way" in which a Summoner is supposed to be.
Opinion v. Opinion.

[shinros]

Well we have two different opinions not much I can do nothing we say will convince each other. One thing though you really think ifrit is useful? I mean come on ifrit is trash compared to the other egi's once you have garuda/carbuncle with contagion/shining emerald they out dps ifrit and titan is a tank.

There is no reason to use him.

[Crevox]

No, it changes it by making Miasma II viable ST and giving you another instant-cast spell to use Fester after.


And I think it's unique, in the realm of Final Fantasy, and something I enjoy.
They've done unique before, and there's no staple "Summoner" class, or a "way" in which a Summoner is supposed to be.
Opinion v. Opinion.

I didn't mention that because of the high mana costs. Not only do you have to be close to the boss (which often means traveling with Ruin II's before you contagion, expensive) then you also have to execute Miasma II, which is even more expensive. Ultimately you do an extra whopping 50 potency of damage for a potentially high mana cost, which is arguably not worth it.

The thing is Summoner does not play at all similarly to ANY Summoner in ANY Final Fantasy. This is the only job where this is the case, as the majority of others play similarly to previous jobs (Scholar is the other exception, but it got owned just as Summoner did by that stupid base class and their rushed need for a specific gameplay style/role to be fulfilled).

[Lobselvith]

I have a feeling when Square-Enix raise the level Cap, we will get the ablities to Summon Full sized Primals, but atm we have Egi Summons. and I feel this is good for levels 1-50.

btw can't wait for PvP! Summoners should be a fun class for pvp!! =D