FATEs are killing Dungeons and team play

[Whitemage82]

FATEs are terrible for the end game community.

They are mindless zergs, require no real play or skill, and teach people nothing about the role they are playing.

So when they finally hit 50 and jump into your dungeon for the first time they know nothing about how to play effectively. They ruin your experience.

FATE need to be on par with dungeon xp and item rewards (you get items from FATEs because of your seal turn ins). Dungeons need to be accessible for people to hone their group skills in a challenging setting. (Though I also believe the dungeons after Brayflox are too hard. Aurum Vale cannot be done with a DF group. This makes no sense for a dungeon you should be leveling on.)

[MitArgento]

I wouldn`t mind fates giving the exp they are giving currently, except they spawn too fast, by the time you are done with 1 FATE, others have already spawned, that allows this FATE grind to happen, so imho the nerf should be to their spawn speed(a heavy nerf in special to the BIG fates like Svara and Dark devices)

[Lemon8or]

I've had my fair share of people just doing FATEs and have no idea how to play tank/healer. DPS is simple enough that they can get by but this one time in Cutter's Cry, the tank didn't even know healer gains aggro by healing and thought he wasn't supposed to aggro everything. I was like what have you done the past 35 levels, he said FATE and cause CC is optional dungeon that only requires level 35, no story progression, it sucked that run.

[Jarlax]

I have played a lot of MMO's "except for WoW"; because I was to busy playing a real challenge in comparison "EQ1". These new games all have the same types of threads about things like this, and there is always the guys that argue how "speed running" is ok when in reality it's "trying to cheat the system".

Every game same crap, there is one method of play that the rewards aren't exactly balanced right; usually over the top, and all the bads in the community defend how "ohh this is the only thing done right the rest is to low" Pretty much people are always looking for that "cheat" that is going to yield them the most for less. I don't really run FATES at all, if one pops near me I may participate, but shy away from it because of the sheer ez-mode retardation of 50 guys zerging across the land with 0 risk for all reward.

I quest and chain q dungeons with my WHM...and get better at being a WHM; not try to zerg level 50 as a WHM and then troll 3 guys by Qing a dungeon in crap loots. The normalized dungeons in any game are considered "crap", and that is simply not true they are all heavy on stats for that tier of gear for that level bracket, and if you have items from the previous tier, just like raid content...guess what, it's easier, just may be tuned that way, and definitely more fun.

I am willing to bet the FATE zerg crowd are the same people saying they are broke and that there is not enough cash going into the game, as well as saying dungeons are worthless omg...repairs etc, I make way more each run than I spend on repairs "not speed running, clearing" it's easier as well because I have better items from doing each one 8 or 9 times before I out level it, as well as go back for kicks later on "especially if the game levels you down"

How about just chill and play to have fun? No one cares how big your E-peen is because your level 50 in two or three days, only you and trying to find every possible hack and cheat missed by development to exploit once upon a time in games got you banned as well as shunned by the community, so even a new account wouldn't save you if you ever wanted to be a member of a respectable guild or online community.

[pandabearcat]

I have played a lot of MMO's "except for WoW"; because I was to busy playing a real challenge in comparison "EQ1". These new games all have the same types of threads about things like this, and there is always the guys that argue how "speed running" is ok when in reality it's "trying to cheat the system".

*snip*

I think you're the one that needs to calm down. You're never really going to get anywhere convincing someone that their way to play is the wrong way.

Regardless of your reasons for running dungeons, the fact is that they are slower to 50 than FATEs. This is just...true.

Also as DPS, our options for dungeons are very terrible with 40min to 1 hour long queues. I was overleveled for every single storyline dungeon that I did simply because it took too long to queue.

So while I'm happy you have the time and inclination to do dungeons, for the rest of us, FATEs are the only quick way to level. And some of us want to level quickly.

[mooney6023]

*SNIP*

So while I'm happy you have the time and inclination to do dungeons, for the rest of us, FATEs are the only quick way to level. And some of us want to level quickly.

By all means, play your way. The logic just doesn't make sense. You choose fates or otherwise to level quickly all to reach 50 and....grind. 12 weeks or so of AK to farm tokens, probably exclusively, or a second or third class via FATEs (grind).

By using FATEs to reach level cap in a week or two are you not setting yourself up for what you say you hate and wish to avoid? Boring repetitive grinding? Wasn't the fate zerg boring and repetitive grinding? And when you accomplish this goal and reach max level with AF2 and your relic via grinding sometime before Xmas will you grind BC? Repetitively?

Do you really think Square can possibly outpace you with end game content without adding more artificial time sinks like token farming?

[Deathgasm]

So, that thread brings us some good points.

In fact dungeon runners do not have any problem with FATE runners.. till they meet.

Here is the problem.

I, we(?) don't mind about rushers, they're a part of the paying community, hence they help our game. Hail to them.

And to stay in good terms, we should manage a better way to meet each other.

On one side I purpose to render completely optional the dungeons. Put them off the story line.

On the other side, create a requirement system for dungeons like a pool of achievements you have to pass before pretending to attempt the next one.

(We can even have some role dedicated achievement like no life bar must go under 50%, no member must be hit during a certain fight, no debuff must stay longer than .. sec, et cetera. Those are just silly examples poping with not serious thinking. This completing the tutorial aspect and the whole work which has been very well done on the progression of the difficulty.)

If a FATE runner likes to do dungeons too but think about to run them lately, at 50, no problem at all, but he'll have to prove his value first, starting at the beginning like dungeons runners did.

Some will say, no way to cut the community in two.. but to say the truth, look it is already done, by itself, so manage to create a border and some rules more conducive to diplomacy.

If on the other side, FATE runners want dungeon runners "to merit" their participation in FATEs, no problem, the achievement journal can be there for that too..
.. but you'll know better than me what requirement system for FATE you should purpose.

(It can be, why not, could be fun, a kind of race between FATE, and terminating a few one within a certain time, hence forcing to join a zerg party. Like that, dungeon runners who are in the end thinking, ok, let's zerg a FATE for a while will have to start at the beginning to be able to bypass the Synch lock.

That all requirement systems will bring back some people later in lowbie zone to complete the FATE achievements as the lowbie dungeons instances for the same reason, hence that's a way to extend the lifespan of low level zones and instances)

I'm sure there is a solution somewhere and also, I apologize for the way I wrote the opening message,.. of course I was tired as you were all, with the marathon of the opening.. anyway sorry about that.

[Zareth]

I think Deathgasm brings an interesting point. Most people that run dungeons want to run them with quality players that learned how dungeon runs work.
People that do fate grinds don't have that background of working as a proper party. I, myself, have joined fate parties where it was all DPS or mostly tanks or mix of DPS and Mages that were only using damage spells. But I learned to improve my targeting skill here.
So each brings it's own set of skills and playstyle. Problem is when people approach the other event with the same playstyle they're used to. And instead of asking how to improve and learn or be patient and teach, people just throw insults at each other. This is where the conflict comes in.

I'm a crafter though. Which seems to be mostly worthless on the whole of things. If nothing changes in the economy, I'll simply do the same as I did with other MMOs and quit.

[TheWitcher]

No, terrible xp and lack of tombstones in most dungeons is killing dungeon play

[Dungin]

Yea, I agree about DPS... I still prefer my BLM, so ill just take up crafting while I wait for pops, problem solved.