Clarification on PLD = Main tank WAR = Off tank

[Devilair]

You are forgetting War has 20% damage buff from maim and 10% from Eye of the storm. They are damn close in single target threat with maybe the War being a bit better in both in my experience. This is purely anecdotal but I have been able to rip it off a pld whenever I felt like it in 8 mans.

and we get 30% dmg for 30 sec by fight or flight, so again, they're even in all and for all xD

[MrSmiley]

Well, cant i sub Flash as Warrior?

yes but without a means to effectively restore mp and a low pool its not a reliable pull in extended fights with more than one add phase

[Isegrim]

Flash is a great way to spend your time when in Pacem after a Berserk and for tanking adds while low on TP.

[Vire]

and we get 30% dmg for 30 sec by fight or flight, so again, they're even in all and for all xD

Didn't count that because I didn't count warriors 50% damage increase from berserk. Warrior can keep up maim and storms eye whenever they want.

PLD is without question better at interrupting bosses though. Warrior needs the help of another person to keep most fights locked out. Its something you can do with teamwork with a war but pld can do it all by themselves.

[Wangstrong]

Foresight 20% less damage. Feather foot 20%+ evasion. Second wind cure. Thrill of battle 20% max HP and 20% HP recovered. Bloodbath absorbs 25% of all damage done as HP. Defiance 20%+ HP. Wrath 15% bonus to cures and 20% Crit damage. Storms eye potency 250 absorbs 50% damage as HP. Inner beast Potency 300 with 300% damage recovered as HP.

Foresight: +20% defense, not 20% less damage
Featherfoot: 15% evasion, not 20%+
Defiance: +25% HP, +10% crit chance

Bloodbath and Storm's Path are pretty terrible at increasing tankiness. They're alright for self-sustaining when soloing and such, but they give back so little HP that it's basically irrelevant when tanking anything decent. A level 50 warrior does less than 100 DPS, so healing for 25% of it is nothing when getting hit for hundreds or even thousands of damage. 50% of an attack that does maybe 300 damage at best, and isn't spammable since it's in the end of you non-enmity rotation, is likewise negligible. These two abilities heal for so little that it basically makes no difference when tanking endgame content, or even dungeons really.

[Thunderz]

Warrior are champs when it comes to holding aggro on multiple ADDs (Freaking packing AoE abilities that put PLD to shame) which is why people prefer them as OFF tanks

also PLD comes with native abilities and traits that greatly reduce their dmg taken which (and I will throw this out there... a much linear and simple class to play) as in Warrior if you don't know how to chain your combo's or use your abilities correctly well then your the worst tank ever.

I've healed my share of fail tanks and let me tell you a fail pld still does a good job holding the boss while a fail warrior is well.. a fail warrior

just my 2cents

[Wangstrong]

Warriors are better for tanking frequent spike damage based bosses which are what make up most of the games end bosses currently, due to big hits taking up less of their maximum HP and being able to self heal for 900-1000 as the hits land which leaves them at much higher max and total hp amounts after each spike. (see post for math and better examples).

This doesn't really make sense, though, since warriors also take at least 20% more damage. The large hp vs. spike damage concept only applies if the damage taken is similar. It's a concept that comes from WoW where tanks generally took roughly the same amount of damage outside of cooldowns, but one type of tank had higher HP instead of powerful cooldowns and was thus better at surviving spike damage. If you take comparatively more damage than the other tanks, the extra HP is meaningless and does in fact not make you more survivable against spike damage at all. The only place where you get anything at all out of HP at the expense of mitigation is when you're taking unmitigatable damage, which is uncommon.

[Churchill]

To dispel some myths:

Paladin has nowhere near the enmity generation that Warrior does. Their combos for generating enmity are identical, sure, but Warrior does a lot more damage than Paladin and regardless of what you're fighting that damage means more threat generated.

However.

Warrior cannot tank strong bosses as easily as Paladin can.

The best example I currently have is Titan Hard.

During his Phase2, one of his moves is a conal 5000 damage. This move will cast instantly and come following one of his line attacks which most of the people will be dodging while they dodge bombs or plumes. Your healers have to get your HP capped and you usually have to use Inner Beast every time just to stay alive. Any mistake means you die. The margin for error on Warrior is zero.

Paladin has: Block, damage mitigation. Shield Oath,-20% damage taken.

[Churchill]

Rampart,-20% damage taken. Sentinel,-40% damage taken. Hallowed Ground, invulnerability. Bullwark,+60% block rate. Stoneskin, 10% HP negation.

And they can equip Foresight, Warriors +20% defense increase.

Right now, the only thing Warrior provides is a shitload more DPS which doesn't benefit the group if one tiny mistake wipes the run.


This lets us operate under two principles, Warrior is meant to be equal to Paladin in which case it needs some significant changes or Warrior is meant to be a Tank that deals with sub-bosses, adds, and other mechanics within a raid and it is probably fine as it is in that scenario.

To be more viable, Defiance would need to be changed to include a damage taken reduction (and/or removal of the damage dealt penalty) and some changes to Bloodbath in terms of downtime and potency. Storms Eye having a damage->HP bonus would also help. The tools we used to have from Gladiator (Rampart, Sentinel) being able to be equipped.

[Excalipoor]

Earlier today before maint. I was trying to run thru Halatali to get all the kills for Grand Company and I was playing my 20 MRD that dungeon of a max lvl cap 23. And my god man, I sucked balls.

I had been playing GLD/PLD and was used to tanking multiple mobs - 3, 4, 5 at a time without breaking a sweat and so I was coming from that kind of mentality; jumped on the MRD, and found to my dismay, 3 mobs at LV20 vs 23 cap I was getting my ass handed to me. I couldn't hold hate off of a BLM or ARC either. I could tank bosses just fine - great in fact. I was really dismayed and thinking I was doing something horribly wrong. So I went and grabbed 2 more levels, went back, and still I can't tank 3 mobs without flatlining. One, yes. 2, serious issues. 3 - or more = done for.

Wondering what I'm doing wrong.