History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

[Nahaara]

Don't nerf Archer SE, it's not needed since the only time i've seen myself hit for 3,000+ damage on something is when it was 20+ levels below me. When i'm fighting the Buffalo NM for example, the highest i've seen myself hit it for was 300 damage or so, and considering the amount of HP that thing has 300 isn't an outlandish amount of damage. The OP needs to actually play as an archer for a bit before she starts making assumptions.

[Reika]

I did 2764 damage with riot blade as Gladiator as the 8th entry in a battle regime against one of the new R30 NM's.

Nerf Gladiators?

[Belial]

Yes SE, I would like to strongly suggest you nerf Archer prior to large battle & class overhauls, just so you can waste some time and maybe hold off this game a couple more months.

/end sarcasm

[Shiyo]

I reported this thread yesterday for trolling and it hasn't been deleted yet? -_-

[Physic]

everybody is mocking him because of his tone, but IF archers do signifigantly more dmg than other dds THEN he is basically right. While its all nice and good to be able to take a hit, if they do not create situations where an archer may have to take hits, then it is totally irrelevant in team play. The logical direction will end up being Archers more highly valued for team content.
basically if marauder/pug/lnc lose dmg because they have defense, and an archer has no need for defense, taking defense out of the equation, archer is better.

you have mixed DD party, you have to heal the DD, which adds to hate, if they die you lose dps, and thier dps is lower? compare that to
Can do more dmg, takes less dmg
its a no brainer which will be more usefull

HOWEVER
they can keep archer with its defense/dmg swing IF the battle situations make it so its actually a trade off, and archers can take dmg, or parties need multiple tanks/off tanks. Or where you may actually need to split up and take on a task that has you being both defensive and offensive at the same time aside from soloing.

and, even though they are rebalancing the classes now, this is important to address now, because they should keep these things in mind when they rebalance. Before someone says of course they know this and are figuring it into everything, Just about every game/company messes up balance sometimes, better to hear about it now than have it be screwed up for a long time and then they have to fix it later.

[Anty]

wow so many pages about archer nerv already. didnt read them all...

since SE is redoin the battle/class system atm theres just no point in asking for a nerv. And i also agree, i dont like nerves,
rather make other jobs better/stronger.

Atm the games battle system doesnt need any tactics, cure spam and everything is fine - ok a little bit of hate control is not bad but 90% of the time its not really needed...

As soon as the mobs get more varied in tp-moves they do, and the more tactics needed to get things done the more we'll need the different classes. All jobs need adjustments badly atm but i DO hope this will be implemented at least 80-90% in the upcoming battle/class changes.

Until then... i would say: dont even dare to even talk about "NERV" lol
the game already nerved too many things right away as a cheap way of preventing rmt...

do you really wanna have such a game?

balancing and making all jobs do the same dmg also is stupid in a pve-orientated game.
The differences/hate differences, etc. is what makes a good pve game balanced and fun.

And honestly even though many ppl might have played ranger in ffxi, in the 5+ years i been playing it it was a nice balance of different jobs there when it came to events and such... merits is a different story but well, its only a grind... so who cares what jobs ppl are taking to achieve it...

make the jobs more unique, each of them, battle mechanics, animations, looks, everything. Then if that happened well see about possible nerves or adjustments....

[Peregrine]

Physic, it's not that what you undertand isn't hard to. The reasoning is plain and simple, and explains exactly why endgame shells trend easily towards kiting and ranged-heavy damage. The players are weak and can't stand near powerful mobs, so they look for the jobs and the tactics that let them get away from them. It always happens. Ranged DDs are inherently imbalanced jobs in light of powerful enemies. Always have been. And these players have grown addicted to that imbalance and actually like it because it includes them so long as they choose that job.

It's that they haven't ever formalized that realization in their heads, and yet still drive towards that conclusion with their actions. They don't know they know why they're doing it. To tell them exactly why they're doing it shows their motives for what they really are, selfish, and the dissonance in their heads created by that realization detonates. Their egos can't handle the dissonance, so they rage blindly. They didn't think anyone knew what was that deep inside their heads. They didn't realize anyone was capable of seeing through their excuses as to why archer should stay on top.

Well, it's easy to be perfectly honest. MMORPG players never change.

By the time they start bragging about how great they are compared to other setups, which will come right after they win tough raid content that most setups struggle on, it's way too late. Before they take over the content, they use arguments like "we're glass cannons" "we pay for arrows" "archers don't bring other things to the table" to hide their ulterior motives to not be glass at all because they know they won't be getting hit, paying for arrows is more than worth the price of being doted on and always invited high-demand job, and they know the only *real* thing any DD brings to the table is DD and everything else is just an excuse to keep their job powerful. They know they can fool some of the people some of they time when they argue that a pug could tank even though a pug never tanks in light of gladiators. The marauder is not an AoE sepecialist in light of mages existing. The lancer is not a hate controller, no one cares. The lancer doesn't get **** for bonus because the lance is a little longer, no one cares. None of their excuses for other DD being behind archers count for anything, and the worst part about their behavior is that they know it. They know they're shallow excuses.

Compare that to a benefit that archers have over meleers that actuallly DOES get used: Archers avoid AoE range. Thus, meleers are actually glass, and archers are invincible. Meleers cannot avoid that damage, which is sure to be powerful the more powerful an enemy is. They're hypocrites and they know it. That in itself is more of a real reason to nerf archers to UNDER the performance of other meleers, because it is something they *actually* do as opposed to all of their other excuses for them and other jobs, which none of them ever do. They avoid all AoE. The pug isn't tanking. He's DD'ing. And getting hit with AoE. An archer is beating the pug at DD'ing and avoiding AoE. Kick the pugilist. Add another archer.

They know this, and they don't care. That's why I take this tone with them. They know archer doesn't deserve what it gets and their excuses are illegitimate. They just want the power and the status. They subconsciously know they're trying to trick people into keeping archer as the top dog when it doesn't belong there, at all. Avoiding AoE at range+high damage=endgame king job. That's all they know. That's what they want. They want respect, where none is due.

That's what they clammor for. The attention. The power. The inclusion. They fail to justify themselves in the end. If allowed to persist, they will grow in numbers and take over endgame. Then when nerfs are called for, they will again start the expected: the arguments will shift to "how are you going to win without us archers? lolmeleers." They will start pushing other DD's back into town when content gets hard becuse they "are not useful." There won't be much room in an endgame shell for a lollancer. "Want to be useful? Level an archer," is what the argument becomes then.

At that point it becomes apparent to the developers that they've made a horrible mistake, and that the only solution is a terrible reckoning that actually drives players to quit the game. But they realize they have to do it, because their game has become a joke and a dystopian social experiment.

Then out comes the nerfs so hard that you don't hear a bragging PEEP out of them for two years. How are they going to win without you archers...like THIS: in comes the massive meleeing boosts that put archer DPS to shame. Warriors just straight murdering Kirin in 40 seconds. THAT is how. Dont' ask again.

It's happening. This never changes. No one learns. At Fafnir, archers aren't glass cannons. They're invincible. That is why their damage should be the lowest of all DD classes.

[Shampooo]

The only thing archer really has that outshines other melee in NM fights is bloodletter. But it can be used across all classes and sticking the dot isnt 100%. using multishot with a buff is the only way to maximize the effectivness of it and doing so takes nearly a full bar of stamina.
Archers on leves and SPing is different just because they can open up with multishot and bring a mob to 50% off the bat. you should really play as an archer before you start complaining. my lancer does more dmg per hit than an archer on NM as well as build stamina faster and TP faster. Archer only does more dmg because of bloodletter and only one bloodletter effect can be on the mob at a time.

[Belial]

Physic, it's not that what you undertand isn't hard to. The reasoning is plain and simple, and explains exactly why endgame shells trend easily towards kiting and ranged-heavy damage. The players are weak and can't stand near powerful mobs, so they look for the jobs and the tactics that let them get away from them. It always happens. Ranged DDs are inherently imbalanced jobs in light of powerful enemies. Always have been. And these players have grown addicted to that imbalance and actually like it because it includes them so long as they choose that job.

It's that they haven't ever formalized that realization in their heads, and yet still drive towards that conclusion with their actions. They don't know they know why they're doing it. To tell them exactly why they're doing it shows their motives for what they really are, selfish, and the dissonance in their heads created by that realization detonates. Their egos can't handle the dissonance, so they rage blindly. They didn't think anyone knew what was that deep inside their heads. They didn't realize anyone was capable of seeing through their excuses as to why archer should stay on top.

Well, it's easy to be perfectly honest. MMORPG players never change.

By the time they start bragging about how great they are compared to other setups, which will come right after they win tough raid content that most setups struggle on, it's way too late. Before they take over the content, they use arguments like "we're glass cannons" "we pay for arrows" "archers don't bring other things to the table" to hide their ulterior motives to not be glass at all because they know they won't be getting hit, paying for arrows is more than worth the price of being doted on and always invited high-demand job, and they know the only *real* thing any DD brings to the table is DD and everything else is just an excuse to keep their job powerful. They know they can fool some of the people some of they time when they argue that a pug could tank even though a pug never tanks in light of gladiators. The marauder is not an AoE sepecialist in light of mages existing. The lancer is not a hate controller, no one cares. The lancer doesn't get **** for bonus because the lance is a little longer, no one cares. None of their excuses for other DD being behind archers count for anything, and the worst part about their behavior is that they know it. They know they're shallow excuses.

Compare that to a benefit that archers have over meleers that actuallly DOES get used: Archers avoid AoE range. Thus, meleers are actually glass, and archers are invincible. Meleers cannot avoid that damage, which is sure to be powerful the more powerful an enemy is. They're hypocrites and they know it. That in itself is more of a real reason to nerf archers to UNDER the performance of other meleers, because it is something they *actually* do as opposed to all of their other excuses for them and other jobs, which none of them ever do. They avoid all AoE. The pug isn't tanking. He's DD'ing. And getting hit with AoE. An archer is beating the pug at DD'ing and avoiding AoE. Kick the pugilist. Add another archer.

They know this, and they don't care. That's why I take this tone with them. They know archer doesn't deserve what it gets and their excuses are illegitimate. They just want the power and the status. They subconsciously know they're trying to trick people into keeping archer as the top dog when it doesn't belong there, at all. Avoiding AoE at range+high damage=endgame king job. That's all they know. That's what they want. They want respect, where none is due.

That's what they clammor for. The attention. The power. The inclusion. They fail to justify themselves in the end. If allowed to persist, they will grow in numbers and take over endgame. Then when nerfs are called for, they will again start the expected: the arguments will shift to "how are you going to win without us archers? lolmeleers." They will start pushing other DD's back into town when content gets hard becuse they "are not useful." There won't be much room in an endgame shell for a lollancer. "Want to be useful? Level an archer," is what the argument becomes then.

At that point it becomes apparent to the developers that they've made a horrible mistake, and that the only solution is a terrible reckoning that actually drives players to quit the game. But they realize they have to do it, because their game has become a joke and a dystopian social experiment.

Then out comes the nerfs so hard that you don't hear a bragging PEEP out of them for two years. How are they going to win without you archers...like THIS: in comes the massive meleeing boosts that put archer DPS to shame. Warriors just straight murdering Kirin in 40 seconds. THAT is how. Dont' ask again.

It's happening. This never changes. No one learns. At Fafnir, archers aren't glass cannons. They're invincible. That is why their damage should be the lowest of all DD classes.

Or, y'know... some people just like bows & arrows... Get off your high horse. You're wagging your finger at players like some self-righteous zealot. Blaming players for game mechanics is like blaming athletes for playing by the rules.

[AlexiaKidd]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

For the sake of argument Peregrine what if you get your wish and Archer gets nerfed and then say LNC becomes the top tier DD will you be making a new thread to nerf LNC?