History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

[Peregrine]

You're trying to add a THM to ARC to make it more powerful. Any DD can carry a token THM and get things done.

ARC may be the best DD thats currently in the game but they deserve to be. And there's not this HUGE distance in DPS between ARC and the other DD's.

That's exactly what you'll do. You're just extremely pissed that someone sees exactly what you're trying to do, and unlike you they're not impressed with your grand schemes to rule the endgame.

A. Kite it!
B. Token tank! Not that one, the one that can heal itself and punishing barb!
C. Ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger! UHranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger.

GET THAT PUGILIST OUT OF HERE. Waste of a Victimize ability!

[Joe_Cool]

That's exactly what you'll do. You're just extremely pissed that someone sees exactly what you're trying to do, and unlike you they're not impressed with your grand schemes to rule the endgame.

A. Kite it!
B. Token tank! Not that one, the one that can heal itself and punishing barb!
C. Ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger! UHranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger.

GET THAT PUGILIST OUT OF HERE. Waste of a Victimize ability!

Extremely pissed? Not at all. To be honest, you call out nerf nerf nerf the ARC but in reality, all the melee's and ARC bring something to the table. You have LNC with abilties such as Comrade of Arms which increases the DPS of ALL the DD in the party by increasing their TP generation and Speed Surge which gives itself haste and replenishes the other DD's health on each attack. You have the MRD which is great for clearing multiple mobs (better than an ARC), GLA which is good at holding hate and taking the brunt of the attacks, PGL with its enfeebling WS's that help quite a bit and can also lower enmity of other DD. You make it sound as though ARC is greater than ALL DD in the game in every situation but that simply isn't true. You are blowing things wayyyyy out of proportion. There are situations where an ARC may be better than other DD but there are also situations to where the other DD are BETTER than an ARC.

And as far a job/class balances, the 2 mages are really the only ones that need it. As both of them, yes CON too, are uber jobs that are greater than all of the other classes.


And as far as your parse stats. You should keep in mind that there are many variences to that kind of thing like:

1.) Skill-Each player has a certain skill and will do different dmg's based on that skill.

2.) Gear-Of course affects the DPS output.

3.) Point Allotment-Yeah yeah yeah I know it's kind of broken but it does mean something and does affect DPS.

4.) Luck-It's a matter of luck on rather a WS critical hits or even misses.


Parse is great for that extra competition between a group, but doesnt really hold any water when trying to use it to see which job/class is better at DPS because like I mentioned earlier, different people have different skill, gear, point allotment, luck, etc. and it also doesnt take in consideration the extra DPS something like a LNC's Comrade in Arms creates. In other words, it doesn't add the extra dmg that other DD do from the LNC's Comrade in Arms to said LNC.

[Physic]

Extremely pissed? Not at all. To be honest, you call out nerf nerf nerf the ARC but in reality, all the melee's and ARC bring something to the table. You have LNC with abilties such as Comrade of Arms which increases the DPS of ALL the DD in the party by increasing their TP generation and Speed Surge which gives itself haste and replenishes the other DD's health on each attack. You have the MRD which is great for clearing multiple mobs (better than an ARC), GLA which is good at holding hate and taking the brunt of the attacks, PGL with its enfeebling WS's that help quite a bit and can also lower enmity of other DD. You make it sound as though ARC is greater than ALL DD in the game in every situation but that simply isn't true. You are blowing things wayyyyy out of proportion. There are situations where an ARC may be better than other DD but there are also situations to where the other DD are BETTER than an ARC.

And as far a job/class balances, the 2 mages are really the only ones that need it. As both of them, yes CON too, are uber jobs that are greater than all of the other classes.


And as far as your parse stats. You should keep in mind that there are many variences to that kind of thing like:

1.) Skill-Each player has a certain skill and will do different dmg's based on that skill.

2.) Gear-Of course affects the DPS output.

3.) Point Allotment-Yeah yeah yeah I know it's kind of broken but it does mean something and does affect DPS.

4.) Luck-It's a matter of luck on rather a WS critical hits or even misses.


Parse is great for that extra competition between a group, but doesnt really hold any water when trying to use it to see which job/class is better at DPS because like I mentioned earlier, different people have different skill, gear, point allotment, luck, etc. and it also doesnt take in consideration the extra DPS something like a LNC's Comrade in Arms creates. In other words, it doesn't add the extra dmg that other DD do from the LNC's Comrade in Arms to said LNC.

difference is most of those abilities are available to any class, what makes archer unique is two things

Ranged attacks
and archer only abilities which are:
any special arrows, (at this point i dont know if any exist)
Multishot trifurcate close shot and farshot and various archer only weaponskills

comrade isnt unique to lnc, the only unique to pug WS are seismic shock and Simian thrash i believe.
Its the weapons innate abilities, and the 1 discipline only skills that make you better. There is no real reason for Archer to have more damage, unless having less defense is actually a factor in combat. So either it should be a factor, or other DDs need more offense or archer needs less offense.

This is all supposing they actually do have more offense, which regardless what he says will be show with parsers and whatnot, as well by eyeballing it. If its true its going to keep coming up.

If it is true, i hope they have already accounted for it in the new battle system, but since we dont know that yet, its a valid point.

[Joe_Cool]

difference is most of those abilities are available to any class

Yes but when used on another job/class, it is a degraded use of it.
BTW, Speed Surge can only be used on LNC

[Peregrine]

Yes but when used on another job/class, it is a degraded use of it.
BTW, Speed Surge can only be used on LNC

No one cares about speed surge in the party giving them piddle amounts of HP, and speed surge's effects on that lancer don't make the lancer competitive with archer. You're not even arguing relevant things. Your'e just blurting out facts and hoping they land on something.

Comrade in arms is no reason to invite a lancer over an archer to a tough fight. Sorry. Your argument barely flies on paper, and doesn't fly in the game.

[Radaghast]

Lancer abilties are a joke right now, mobs don't last long enough in parties for them to even matter. NM's you're lucky to have them even land, and are you supposed to get excited over 33-44 hp/tp per hit? Something like short duration group haste or the like would have been better.

Doomspike II is their one saving grace.

[Joe_Cool]

No one cares about speed surge in the party giving them piddle amounts of HP, and speed surge's effects on that lancer don't make the lancer competitive with archer. You're not even arguing relevant things. Your'e just blurting out facts and hoping they land on something.

Comrade in arms is no reason to invite a lancer over an archer to a tough fight. Sorry. Your argument barely flies on paper, and doesn't fly in the game.

Comrade in arms is just one ability that came to mind on LNC that increases DPS on all DD. No one would invite LNC if that was the only useful thing LNC would bring to that party. If you include that with the dmg that LNC does do (LNC is a pretty good DD) and the some other useful traits, LNC can hold its own in a party.

[Peregrine]

Comrade in arms is just one ability that came to mind on LNC that increases DPS on all DD. No one would invite LNC if that was the only useful thing LNC would bring to that party. If you include that with the dmg that LNC does do (LNC is a pretty good DD) and the some other useful traits, LNC can hold its own in a party.

You're not a novel act here. You can argue that dragoon in 2005 "brought things to the table" It just wasn't so. Sorry. You're wrong. Lancer can't hold itself in a party. Archer is 33% better than it is, so lancer becomes an inefficient party slot. End of argument.

It's the same failed mechanics as in XI. In 2005, Thieves bring nothing to the table. Dark knights bring nothing to the table. Dragoons bring nothing to the table. You can argue they do like an obvlivious wishful thinker, or you can open your eyes and see for a fact that the world does not agree with you.

[Xzen]

difference is most of those abilities are available to any class, what makes archer unique is two things

Ranged attacks
and archer only abilities which are:
any special arrows, (at this point i dont know if any exist)
Multishot trifurcate close shot and farshot and various archer only weaponskills

comrade isnt unique to lnc, the only unique to pug WS are seismic shock and Simian thrash i believe.
Its the weapons innate abilities, and the 1 discipline only skills that make you better. There is no real reason for Archer to have more damage, unless having less defense is actually a factor in combat. So either it should be a factor, or other DDs need more offense or archer needs less offense.

This is all supposing they actually do have more offense, which regardless what he says will be show with parsers and whatnot, as well by eyeballing it. If its true its going to keep coming up.

If it is true, i hope they have already accounted for it in the new battle system, but since we dont know that yet, its a valid point.

They should buff caster dmg a bit. Take away most of their heals. Reduce ARC defense that way all the range classes can be 1 shot. Then reduce the range so they have to stand within the mobs aoe range. bam the ranged classes are balanced. Better yet why dont we take all the utility and support skills/magic and split them between all the jobs. Buff arc, thm, and con defense and hp. Take away their range. Now everything is balanced. Oh wait WoW is over this way if I want to play a game like that.

[Peregrine]

Oh wait WoW is over this way if I want to play a game like that.

This is the sticky situation MMORPG makers face. There is a horde of players who know that MMORPGs tend to favor ranged classes and overpower them, and constantly let them run the endgame show. Any MMORPG who takes a stand against them, they ragequit and threaten to stop playing.

They're like senior citizens and self-entitled baby boomers. They block every change that needs to change by threatening to vote whoever does it out of office.

They threaten and threaten, and no one calls them on it until the status gets so bad that action HAS to be taken. So many rangers quit final fantasy XI after the nerf. Sad part is those players caused the quitting of three times as many players, so square enix lost on all fronts.

That's why it's important to nerf archers now. Not later. Nerfing them later does two things. A. It drives other players to quit before archer is balanced. And it causes archers to ragequit when archer is balanced.

Do it now. Do it soon.