Let's keep Character Crossovers from other Square-Enix titles out of FFXIV.

[Fatestorm]

Yoshi was recently interviewed about FFXIV by rpgsite while at Japan Expo in Paris. link

Virtually the first question Yoshi was asked was about the Lightning/Snow crossover from Final Fantasy XIII that was recently announced, and rightly so, because of the extreme reactions to it--either extremely positive or extremely negative. Yoshi responds that he *anticipated* both reactions. He says that the expo was not the right time or place to talk about the nitty gritty details of the crossover, how she fits into the lore of Eorzea, and all that. He will talk about that when he gets back to Japan, with a lengthy forum post to the "hardcore 1.0 players" to satisfy their fears.

Once I'm back in Japan I will probably write a long forum post again to explain in more detail to the fans. Myself, I am one of those who really wants to make sure that the FF14 world is kept safely in a FF14 way - so I don't want to destroy the lore. There's going to be plenty of cutscenes and explanation of the reasons in the storylines of why Lightning can appear in FF14.

Please be rest assured that there is a reason, and I'm going to make sure that it's natural she's in this world. Is she going to stay here? What's going to happen to her..? All that is also going to be mentioned in the storyline - it's going to become a natural part of the history of Eorzea.

Rpgsite follows up immediately with an observation--bringing in a *character* from an actual different Final Fantasy game is a much different cup of tea than bringing in a reference, or an item, or some armor. Does this open the door to stuff like SEPHIROTH fights, or Cloud on his motorcycle, or what?

Yoshi demurs from answering the question, but he does offer this:

The main message we wanted to tell the players is the same as the announcements we made at E3 and now again at Japan Expo, which is that previously, all these numbered titles in the FF franchise were totally different, each of them were independent of each other - totally separate.

However, between the dev teams and also within the company, we also really want to work close together and have a strong relationship with each other and sort of push FF as a whole.

It's not like that we want to just get more attention from players or get more money by using the elements from previous FF games - it's nothing like that. As a company and as a group, we wanted to make sure that the FF projects have a strong relationship between the dev teams of the numbered titles. We're not necessarily planning to bring back all the characters.

I would like to ask Yoshi personally, and the entire Final Fantasy XIV development and community team, and all of us players, to stop pursing this kind of character and story development in Final Fantasy XIV. It is disastrous to the integrity of this story.

Let me say right off the bat: I am not objecting to references or callbacks to other Final Fantasy titles tout court. Things like the materia system, or magitek armor, or a beach town named "Costa del Sol," or recurring thematic bosses like "Atomos" or "Ifrit"--things like this. These are cute references and a good way of making this title a real part of the "Final Fantasy" universe. Think of it this way--when you put these kinds of references in, you are doing world building--you are making us, the players, feel like we are really in a Final Fantasy universe.

Adding an actual character from another Final Fantasy game is essentially and radically different from this. Why? Because Plot and Character are the two most important features of any story, and by introducing other familiar and beloved Final Fantasy characters into Final Fantasy XIV, you are making our story a part of their story.

Again, I don't want to start a discussion about magical crystals or Atomos traveling through a void, or quantum entanglements, or Doc Brown in a DeLorean, or any talk of how such a joining of stories might be possible. I am speaking from a story perspective, from a literary perspective even--not whether Lightning can be in our world but whether she ought to be in our world.

When a hero like Cloud, or Lightning, or Sephiroth becomes a part of Eorzea's plot, what happens is that they upstage us as characters in Eorzea's world, and they upstage the characters in XIV like Minfilia and Nael van Darnus. Cloud and Lightning and Sephiroth are leading men and leading ladies--they are the protagonists of their world, and they cannot help but bring that with them into other plots. Minfilia and Y'shtola are protagonists of XIV's plot. They deserve to have their own stage time, in their own plot, without Lightning upstaging him. Gaius von Baelsar and his plans for Eorzea deserve their own time and space to develop, without having Sephiroth and his dark materia upstage him.

Please note that it's not at all a matter of liking or disliking the particular reference. For example, I personally did not care much for XIII, and I quite liked VII--but my preferences about those games are not at all what this is about. Those games have their own integrity and this game--XIV--deserves its own.

It is even possible to do marketing events--like Lightning's costume and some XIII weapons--without making Lightning herself come into Eorzea's world. We can celebrate other Final Fantasy titles without ruining the integrity of XIV's story.


***In Brief***: Yoshi, you say that you've always been a man who "wants to make sure that the FF14 world is kept safely in a FF14 way." But your solution to doing this is to say that you did a really really good job of doing character crossovers from other titles. Please realize that character crossovers, no matter how good you do them, will irreparably violate the integrity of XIV's characters and plot.

You also acknowledge that "in the past", numbered Final Fantasy franchises were entirely separate entities; but that this is changing now because you want a unified Square-Enix development team. Please realize that it is possible to have good working relationships with all of the Square-Enix development team, and to promote Final Fantasy as a whole--without making Final Fantasy XIV a plot and character "free for all" that has more in common with wish-fulfillment fanfiction than it does with the amazing story and characters expected of a Final Fantasy title.

We can celebrate the beloved Final Fantasy franchise without destroying the integrity of this game's characters and plot. We can celebrate the launch of Final Fantasy games without devolving into self-referential fanservice. I am merely one loyal fan, but I feel like I speak for many more when I ask you humbly to immediately reconsider this disastrous design choice.

[indira]

im more worried about the gear changes then a event givng out lv1 items for fun.

[SkyeWindbinder]

Well said, Fatestorm! I could not have done better myself.

Having crossovers like this in the Final Fantasy universe cheapens whichever game you do it in. It may not have been Yoshi's intention, but having a famous Final Fantasy character from another Final Fantasy game in A Realm Reborn cheapens this game's excellent lore and makes it seem dated and cheesy. Lightning has her time to shine in her own game in her own universe in her own story. Here, it's our characters' time to shine, as well as the NP characters we've all grown fond of (Louisioux, Thancred, Minfillia, ect.) This is a completely different story, and should remain so.

Also, it makes it seem like the developers are suggesting that A Realm Reborn cannot stand on it's own legs without some cheesy fanservice to bring in players of past games that they loved. Without even trying, Yoshi is mocking the lore of A Realm Reborn. I just can't take Lightning and Snow showing up in Eorzea seriously. This is a bad idea in my opinion. Hell, as much as I love Final Fantasy VII (especially the Sephiroth part of it), I would be equally as appalled if my favorite silver haired pretty boy made an appearance and started tearing one of the city-states apart. I just... what on earth is Yoshi thinking? lol

[Denmo]

I'm very OK with whatever they choose to do in this regard.

BTW let's keep this thread civil, considering there's already multiple heated debates going on in the beta forums over the same subject (not sure why you're posting here, tbh, sure you have reasons).

[Fatestorm]

Also, it makes it seem like the developers are suggesting that A Realm Reborn cannot stand on it's own legs without some cheesy fanservice to bring in players of past games that they loved. Without even trying, Yoshi is mocking the lore of A Realm Reborn. I just can't take Lightning and Snow showing up in Eorzea seriously. This is a bad idea in my opinion. Hell, as much as I love Final Fantasy VII (especially the Sephiroth part of it), I would be equally as appalled if my favorite silver haired pretty boy made an appearance and started tearing one of the city-states apart. I just... what on earth is Yoshi thinking? lol

Thank you Skye. I agree very much, and there's also a flip side to what you say as well. I think that an important part of any storytelling is knowing when to walk away, to say "thus far, and no more" to a story and its characters. I think it cheapens the memory of the beloved Final Fantasy characters themselves to have them popping into new universes, opening up their stories again for more and additional adventures.

This doesn't mean I automatically think that franchises like "Dissidia" or "Kingdom Hearts" are trash or anything... those franchises were specifically built to do what they do. I'm just saying that just as it cheapens our characters and our world to be upstaged by old heroes, it upstages the integrity of the old heroes and their own personal stories to be constantly dragged out of their worlds to "do it again, but different this time."

im more worried about the gear changes then a event givng out lv1 items for fun.

I appreciate your opinion, but I'm talking about plot and character; I'm not at all concerned with the game system mechanics here.

BTW let's keep this thread civil, considering there's already multiple heated debates going on in the beta forums over the same subject (not sure why you're posting here, tbh, sure you have reasons).

Civil disagreement, even when it's the exception rather than the rule on forums, is a goal for which we all should always strive! I welcome civil disagreement; I get miffed by people posting gifs of people eating popcorn.

These are the official FFXIV forums, and I felt like posting on the game's official forums and not the forums for the currently closed beta test, as this is an issue which I feel affects the design of the entire game going forward.

[Jacien]

[prymortal]

So you want Cid, Briggs, wedge removed?

The FF3 crystal tower which is a big part of the end game in ARR.

Also You want all the FFXI stuff removed? bye bye relics, monsters, certain classes you clearly dont want added?

yoshi has been telling us he's planning on adding this stuff since 1.0 you've had more than enough time to cry about it, so why pick now before release??????

[Fatestorm]

Jacien, firstly and most importantly, your observation that a crossover has been done in another game before is not in any way an argument against my claim that it should not be done in this game.

Secondly, your example is disingenuous. The plot of Final Fantasy Tactics had nothing to do with Cloud whatsoever. The plot of the game, and the heroes and villains of the story, pretend like he's not there at all. If Lightning were to appear in Eorzea for no reason at all as a promotional event, it would be a bit insulting, but it would be analogous to Cloud in Final Fantasy Tactics. However, Yoshi has promised us that "I'm going to make sure that it's natural she's in this world. Is she going to stay here? What's going to happen to her..? All that is also going to be mentioned in the storyline - it's going to become a natural part of the history of Eorzea." Yoshi has said Lightning WILL be part of the lore and story of Eorzea. So it's apples and oranges. My claim above is that making crossover characters intricate parts of the plot of this game is a huge mistake.

[SkyeWindbinder]

I didn't particularly like Cloud being in that game myself.

So you want Cid, Briggs, wedge removed?

yoshi has been telling us he's planning on adding this stuff since 1.0 you've had more than enough time to cry about it, so why pick now before release??????

Biggs and Wdge are like a running gag for many of the classical Final Fantasy games. They've become almost as much a staple of the games as chocobos and moogles, so I don't think they count.

I don't think anyone's "crying" about it as much as they're expressing their concerns about it. Kind of a rude way to respond to someone's opinion, actually. And I personally hadn't seen anything in the past about Lightning or any other major FF characters being put into this game.

[Fatestorm]

So you want Cid, Briggs, wedge removed?

yoshi has been telling us he's planning on adding this stuff since 1.0 you've had more than enough time to cry about it, so why pick now before release??????

Please try to follow my argument. "Cid" is a recurring name in Final Fantasy titles, not a recurring character. Cid Highwind from 7 did not show up in Eorzea. Nor did Cidolfus Demen Bunansa from 12. Cid Garlond is a character from Eorzea. So too with the names Biggs and Wedge. They are recurring names, not recurring characters. The Biggs and Wedge working on the Tiny Bronco in 14 are not literally the same soldiers of Gestahl's Magitek Empire who led Terra against Narshe with a slave crown.

So I am not objecting to references to past Final Fantasies. I am objecting to the very characters themselves coming out of their respective worlds and into Eorzea.