Can any WoW refugees explain the exodus to XIV to me?

[Shurrikhan]

Would somebody mind explaining it? And if this helps to serve as a PSA to our own devs about pitfalls to avoid, all the better.

Mostly a sense of negligence, and in ways that tend to stick out the most. Not in bugs you can shrug off, either. Cheaters get their loot, then everyone gets something taken away. Miscommunication, miscommunication, miscommunication. Oversold features. Buggy features as prime selling points. Etc., etc.

Balance hasn't been as horrible as many will contest, but there have been rough patches for certain jobs, and they're right to feel offended by the neglect they're experiencing.

A lot of the content just feels really shallow and wholly predictable, as if someone ran down a checklist of time-filling activities necessary to make a game rather than going whole-hoggedly for some sort of envisioned goal they felt passionate to design.

Nothing new at this point, but there's a ton of RNG, and in the wrong places. Moreover, the appearance of "so much still to do" when so little of it has any chance of benefiting you just detracts from the actually beneficial things. Rather than seeing the ladder of progression, we see the daily waste pile or charity scraps to dig through. In part, the fault is on us for not ignoring what all visuals and in-game content guidance and development time presents as relevant when it's scarcely so at best, but... I can't say it's wholly a perception issue when design shapes perception.

Microtransactions remain as intrusive as ever. That's not to say by much -- it's certainly no Megaflare emote bs -- but the spite adds up over time.

Tbh, most of the complaints one would run into there apply about as equally, from a conceptual level, here as well.

[Areic]

I still play BFA from time to time, I can't say I'm a refugee as I play WoW and FF14. But there's a few things that people probably have already said and some new. This will be long.

Activision taking over is one degrading factor. They attempt to space out promised content and make content that's designed to just keep you playing, not necessarily be fun. PvE is plagued with something called warforging. It's a chance for your items to get a higher item level, thus making sure you're never fully geared, you don't have a solid objective to strive for as even if you get the piece of gear you want, there's a high chance it won't be warforged high enough, and it may not have a socket slot for extra stats or one of the RNG secondaries that they can also get.

On top of this, was the recent addition of something called azerite traits. They're sets of traits that buff your abilities or stats tied to three pieces of armor. They're insanely boring compared to the traditional talent systems or old artifact weapon system, and rarely add any meaningful mechanics to your class. Generally the best ones are just numbers buffs. To top it off, various pieces of gear have different traits, and it's insanely RNG to get the one you want, especially if you don't raid. To the point many people will view an item with a higher ilvl as a downgrade because it doesn't have the proper traits, and you may have to grind out azerite levels to even be able to use the traits ( Azerite power is like a secondary leveling mechanic, you get it from doing all activities, but everytime they release higher ilvl gear, they increase the azerite level needed to use said traits. Sometimes you get a piece and LOSE traits because you're not high enough level yet, its a crap feeling )

PvP gearing has been butchered. It used to be you could buy gear with a currency you earned per match. It gave people an objective goal and even made playing alts feel better. You could get weaker gear with the normal, unlimited currency. The stronger gear could be gained with a currency that has a weekly cap like genesis tomes, and at one point could get even higher gear depending on your ranking in rated content. This had it's pros and cons, but was much better than what you have now.

Now, there is some gear that can be earned directly, but most of it is set at very specific item levels or gear slots. Any other gear you get will be gained very randomly from winning matches, or a very random piece at the end of the week based on your pvp rating. This somewhat applies to pve too. PvE used to have token and currency systems, again like FF14 with it's tomes and bolts/springs/etc from savage raids, but they've entirely done away with those. They've recently added a system to get azerite pieces, but it's insanely grindy and requires you breaking down all the spare azerite pieces you get.

Races advertised for the expansion went two routes. Some came out pre-expansion, but you had to grind reputation for them, which required doing dailies and events every day for about a month. You still have to go back to now OLDER content to unlock them, and due to their scaling changes it feels kind of aids. Four other races didn't come out until after the xpac, two of them locked behind another month rep grind, and two more not even coming out until late this month. They released a major patch, 8.1 back in early december, and barely gave any content for it aside from a very boring PvE content you only do once every two weeks. Instead they decided to save some of it for late Jan.

To top it all off, the game doesn't feel like much of an RPG anymore. They take away a lot of tools from classes that make them unique just for the sake of making things "fair" between classes, so some classes end up feeling the same while just looking different. Leveling feels horrible because you go ages without unlocking a dang thing so it ends up feeling very dull and boring.

When it comes to patches. They'll leave classes brokenly overpowered or underpowered for months on end, even when the fix could be some simple numbers resolutions. ( Tank warriors got some numbers buffs and an ability taken off the GCD. This could have been hotfixed insanely easily, and it helped them a buttload, but it literally took them 2-3 months to do so ) But they will very quickly hot fix simple things that are "fun" and don't break the game at all. They made a blunder that allowed one faction a few days of gearing insanely easily from content called warfronts, then added an actual ilvl requirement to that content, let the players of that faction keep the gear, and didn't allow the other faction the same method.

All in all, you can tell their quality and passion is dropping, and they're going hard for the money. And anytime they have a system that's good or working, they scrap it entirely just for the sake of making something new, even if that new thing is 100x worse.

TLR A buttload of RNG, spaced out content for the sake of keeping you subscribed, lack of class identity, money grabbing, content and progression that just feels awful.

[Deceptus]

TLR A buttload of RNG, spaced out content for the sake of keeping you subscribed, lack of class identity, money grabbing, content and progression that just feels awful.

While not 100% there, I feel that FFXIV is heading down this exact path.

To top it all off, the game doesn't feel like much of an RPG anymore. They take away a lot of tools from classes that make them unique just for the sake of making things "fair" between classes, so some classes end up feeling the same while just looking different. Leveling feels horrible because you go ages without unlocking a dang thing so it ends up feeling very dull and boring.

This is basically FFXIV right now. Since the ability prune leveling feels really bad. "Your kit comes together and plays optimally at 70" is a terrible excuse for lackluster leveling abilities.

[Areic]

While not 100% there, I feel that FFXIV is heading down this exact path.




This is basically FFXIV right now. Since the ability prune leveling feels really bad. "Your kit comes together and plays optimally at 70" is a terrible excuse for lackluster leveling abilities.

I ain't saying FF14 is perfect itself, but those are the reasons for such an exodus. Even if one game has some of the same, people may migrate just for something new because it's at the very least the next best thing. People who like MMORPGs need that itch scratched. It's why when WoW was still early and games like EQ and DAOC still had /some/ playerbase, any new MMO that came out people would jump to just for something new, even if they sucked.

Nowadays the only MMOs coming out are early access crap cash grabs and people know it, FF14 is the second most financially successful MMO, so people will jump to it for a breath of fresh air. Plus it's art style is nicely done and a big change from the often cartoon-y looks of WoW or even Wildstar ( even if it's dead now ) or the super generic korean MMO character apperance.

[Ryaz]

I left WoW during Cataclysm due to burn out, went back for several months during Legion. While I had a fun time, the rep grinds started to get to me and the RNG of the legendary items, plus being forced into a playstyle I didn't like due to talent imbalances just made me leave. Tried to come back for BFA and lasted maybe a month.

Island Expeditions got boring quickly.

Warfronts were bad and handled extremely poorly. Touted as a main feature only to be available once per month and of course Horde got to do them first... And they were nerfed when it was the Alliances turn. I never really bought the whole "Horde Favortism" schtick but this combined with other bugs that favored the Horde and were fixed before the Alliance's turn really tested me.

The story is garbage for BFA as well. Based on characters acting like complete idiots, with developers saying the story would be gray, but it really not coming off that way at all. Horde was being made to look like the bad guys again with Sylvanas going full Garrosh 2.0. Just bad writing. WoW's overall lore is great, but the actual stories themselves are terrible. Your character is mostly just there, with all the real credit for things going to NPCs so Blizzard can boost them up. Like good ol' Jaina ex Machina.

Finally, Azerite gear is literally the worst idea the development team has ever come up with, especially combined with how RNG everything in the game is. First there's layers of RNG just to get the item you want (nothing like running every Mythic dungeon for weeks and not getting one piece you can use... Or a weapon). Heck, you might run a few mythics and not even see a drop because of the RNG. Non-Azerite gear suffers from even more RNG with how it drops (regular, warforged, titanforged) while Azerite gear abilities themselves are incredibly poorly balanced, and getting an upgrade is actually a downgrade for a while until you grind the ridiculous amount of AP to even unlock the traits again. Along with the massive rep grind to unlock things.

Throw in useless crafting (seriously, by the time my Blacksmith could even craft a weapon or armor for myself, it was completely obsolete) and it just lost it's appeal very quickly. Faster than any expansion I've previously played, including Warlords of Draenor, and that's saying something.

As flawed as FFXIV is, I keep coming back to it. Combat isn't quite as simplified as WoW. Tome gear means I have something to look forward to other than weeks of disappointment because luck didn't favor me while the guy next to me gets a Titanforged weapon. And crafting is leagues better with not only combat gear being useful (if pricy), but the sheer amount of housing items you can make. My mansion is a big part of my end game and enjoyment of FFXIV. The fact that WoW hasn't done housing in all its years based on some weird philosophy that people will stop interacting (they won't) shows how out of touch they are. Pretty much every MMO has some housing and people love it.

Anyway, there's my rant. I've been playing FFXIV on and off for years since 2.0, but really have stuck with it since SB was released and have no plans on taking a break anytime soon!

[Ntol]

For me it´s all about the lore.

First, the retcons. Although nothing new, Warcraft´s lore is full of retcons, they keep getting more frequent and worse. In the last expansion, Legion, they created like 10 origin stories for the evil demon guys, and that was just after having published a book which summarized the lore, which was also retconned in like a month.

Second, the faction war. I´m not against it per se (it´s called Warcraft for a reason), but after facing so many enemies together the reasons for the latest war look like a childish tantrum. If it had a legitimate reason I wouldn´t be that opposed to it, but the reason is, literally: the other faction, whom we have always attacked first, might attack us in the future despite having a pacifist leader, so we will strike first.

Third, Sylvanas Windrunner and her legion of fans. Continuing the second reason, the faction war is still worse since it revolves around the figure of a "sexy" undead lady. Yup, forget all lore surrounding the Horde and its traditions: all its members must follow her on her genocidal crusade, even against racial allies, no questions asked. What´s even worse is that her fans try to justify her with all their might, going as far as applauding unjustified genocide.

FFXIV might be worse gameplaywise (the worst offender being the loading screens instead of a fully open world), but its lore is ages beyond what Warcraft will ever achieve (it´s heavily limited by the factions).

[zylo1010]

BfA reminds alot of wow players of WoD. Which is to date the worst xpac in that game. You see comparisons on the forums all the time. Plus everything in BfA is timegated, rep gated. The newest races are all locked behind rep grinds and they still haven't released 2 that's were big selling points for the game. The story itself seems all over the place. Class balance is laughable at best. Classes in most cases lost to many abilities with the prune to be fun. The stat squish broke alot of systems and made leveling (which is 120 levels now) even more of a grind and a huge boring pain in the rear. Nerf xp bonuses that have been around for most of the games life. And copy/pasted halfa$$ed versions of legions systems.

[KageTokage]

I'm curious as to how the whole botting situation in WoW is now, because when I played back in Cataclysm I scarcely saw them (At least as far as the gathering bots went), and the ones I did notice I was able to get purged with minimal effort after reporting them (Of which the GMs actually notified me so I could be certain of whether or not I was wasting my time).

XIV continues to grate at my nerves with how often I run into them while going about my business whether it be hunting or gathering and it's naturally gotten significantly worse with the sudden influx of returning/new players showing up because of the holiday season and 4.5 being on the horizon.

[Vahlnir]

I can't really say I'm a refugee, but I am taking an extended break from WoW currently. I haven't ruled out returning sometime in the future, but they will have to impress me.

Battle for Azeroth has been full of bugs and disappointments...which I could normally overlook if the content wasn't bad. Sadly the content currently available is of poor quality imo, and they continue to disappoint with each hotfix and patch they release. I was taking a long, long break from FF XIV during the end of WoW's Legion expansion (with the intention of preparing for BfA) because I was disappointed in Eureka as well as other things. I'm not entirely sure WHAT came over me when I resubbed, I just felt the itch to play. But...I've been playing since the beginning of the last patch and I don't regret it one bit.

I do, however, regret purchasing a WoW expansion for the first time since I started back in Wrath about 9 years ago...which is where my journey began. Fun times were had. WoD was horrible overall, but I still stay subbed for the most part and enjoyed at least some of the content that expansion offered. BfA? Yeah, I spent money on the digital deluxe...and it was probably one of the very few purchases I've ever truly regretted. Normally preordering a WoW expansion has been a bit of a tradition for me. I will think twice before I resub again though, let alone give them more money for an expansion. If nothing else the WoW devs made me appreciate the work that the FF XIV devs do a bit more, even if I don't always agree with their methods.

[DBriggs304]

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm happy we're getting an influx of players here from another MMO. More players is always a good thing, especially now that a new expansion is just over the horizon. But for someone who has played WoW for all of two hours and then quit, I'm curious what is causing the exodus. Some of the terms I've seen thrown here and there are pretty unfamiliar to me. I know this expansion, BfA has a lot to do with it - but that's about all that I really understand.

Would somebody mind explaining it? And if this helps to serve as a PSA to our own devs about pitfalls to avoid, all the better.

I left WoW for good (Vanilla player) Feb of last year. I was not happy about the announcement of Classic WoW as it splits the already dwindling base and it is a waste of money & resources to live in the past.

I also was extremely mad how they handled Allied Races (which to me are new races regardless of some reskin models) making up "earn" them when it was nothing more than game time bloat. I just wasnt excited about the direction of the game or the expansion and felt they were charging us more for way less. The positive is that it made me try out other games, including actually taking time to really get into FF. WoW has lost me for good now.

I also like that the dev's actually seem to really care about FF and its playerbase where WoW devs seem like they think the Titanic cant sink.

Considering that they are in major trouble, seems that was an incorrect assessment.