How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

I sure would love a parser In game. I have no way of knowing if I need to improve or not in an actual fight. Sure I can hit the SSS dummy and get my numbers that way (which btw, is still calculated by an outside source, SE doesn't even let us see actual nunbers, just the dummy exploding), but it's heavily skewed by rotations you wouldn't actually do in a battle, the fact that you have 0 obstacles in your way and the parse being below 3 mins.

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Originally Posted by missybee

Mechanics and DPS aren't mutually exclusive. Look at OS3, for instance - it demands a relatively high amount of damage from each player, but is also pretty mechanics-heavy. The job of a DPS is to push out as much damage as possible while doing mechanics correctly - I'm not sure what your point is.

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A simple HP per time gauge for the party would be sufficient for that.
Im not for or against showing my own damage, but it becomes the pointing game for leaderboards
and enrage doesn't really relate to single person but more than one.
Anyway, the suggestion is moot because once it out, SE have to police people's interactions
even if it's for ourself, plus fixing 2 different things on a single content/fight if there's a bug .

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Bring me the group that is this because I've never seen it. but to play along then they aren't doing their rotation right simple as that. that is a go look at a guide problem not break out the parser problem. Back to reality this is rare no group is able to do mechanics flawlessly and not know how to play their roles

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You must not PUG very often then. Because I've seen groups like this a lot. And even if it's a rotation issue, gear issue, whatever issue, my point still stands: meeting enrage is a lot more than just "not dying and pressing 1-2-3." The poster I was responding to is basically saying meeting enrage = not dying. You can still meet enrage with deaths, and you can still NOT meet enrage with NO deaths. There's much more that goes into successfully clearing a fight than just "not dying." If a group doesn't have the overall DPS to clear a fight (V1S and V2S take roughly 20k to 21k DPS to clear just before enrage goes off), it doesn't matter if no one dies. They won't be meeting enrage with 15k Raid DPS or 17k Raid DPS.

Parsers are not the devil. The people that use them to fuel abuse and harassment are the bad guys here. Not the parsers. And really, in my experience, I have met and reported ONE person who actively harassed people based off of their parse. Ironically enough, they weren't doing so hot either, so not sure what they were trying to accomplish other than blame-shifting for the wipes. But the fact of the matter still stands. Jerks are going to be jerks, parser or no parser. So parsers aren't the bad guy here; they're just, unfortunately, used as a tool in the harassment, and, as a result, are cast in an unfavorable light from there on out.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

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I was speaking from my personal experience, in which what I said for my experience was a fact to me. What is a fact to me, from my experience, is an anecdote to others.

Yes there are people who do not bring up parse results, or people like my static's MT who posts the parse data up and does a breakdown on things like DoT uptime but otherwise makes no comment on the data itself and instead focuses on any mechanic troubles we were having. Also they focus on the boss health loss rate rather then any individual DPS amount, because ultimately that is the value that is most important.

However there is a much larger majority that use the data as an excuse to attack people because it validates their opinion that "you suck and should uninstall this game, you are a piece of shit blight on this community". Something that an official parser can encourage to happen. Which will make it hard for SE support staff as they would be getting a large influx of reports, or it may just result in people becoming apathetic that anything will get done and stop reporting all together because its "normal" to be harassed over your DPS numbers (even when you were say a RDM who spent most of the time trying to keep getting people back up so the healers can still have MP to focus on healing because people keep fucking up mechanics).

On the subject itself on enrage timers, they exist as another element of challenge to help EX and Savage content live up to their name. If there were no enrages then people would just endlessly do the mechanic dance once learned and eventually take down the boss. Making the difficulty of the difficulty become "learn the mechanic dance" which is something everyone can do.

If Savage and EX primals are there for people to push themselves, they need more then just a mechanic dance. They need a limiter beyond straight mechanics so they do not just half ass play their class and still clear. Hence why the enrages exist.

There is no parser beyond a target dummy with a time trial because parsers have historically destroyed the community aspects of many MMOs and as such Yoshi P does not want them in the game. This is why they gave us SSS to test our combos against.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

The main issue with adding a DPS parser to the game is that it focuses the game on DPS.

I agree with this issue.
But this is not a problem with adding a parser.This is a problem with adding a parser in the wrong way.

A DPS-only parser gives the impression of things being DPS-focused and it can destroy a community by providing a lopsided view of what's required to be a good player.

A DPS-only parser would be terrible in FF14 simply because DPS doesn't tell the whole story about being a good player. It just shows if you can skew one facet of the game to lean more your way for a certain fight. Exceptionally high DPS in a fight only shows you relied on your other party members to do mechanics or to heal you through what you should have spent time on dodging.

So, what's the good way?
Well, what makes a good player?

A good player (in no particular order):
-Manages their DPS (more, more, more!)
-Manages agro (either enough as a tank or not-too-much as a non-tank)
-Manages their health (either by healing or dodging avoidable AoE)
-Manages mechanics (helping the group clear)

Therefore, a good way to do parsing would be to have a metric for each of these important aspects.

Having "just a DPS parser" is as good as having "just an agro parser."
Both provide useful aspects on their own, but both are laughable as some sort of evaluation for "how you are as a whole player." This only sows confusion into the community. The kind of confusion that breeds negativity.

So, show people how they can actually be "good players."
Give us a good parser.
Show us what we all want to know.

Example of a good parser:
-provide an understandable DPS metric
AND -provide an agro metric
AND -provide a healing metric
AND -provide a damage taken metric
AND -provide a mechanics-followed metric

If you do all of this, then you can do "a parser" in the right way and add a great level of benefit to the entire community.

No one can say "your DPS is low" if right beside that value it shows you did all the mechanics in the dungeon and no one else did any. Without you, everyone else would have 0 DPS.

No one can say "learn to heal" when the metric shows they stood in the last 5 avoidable AoEs.

Worried about trolling?
Easy fix to that.
Keep the same regulations about reporting players who use numbers to abuse others.
Make the metrics non-sharable-in-game (personal parsers). You can even only have them show up after you leave the instance.
Make the metrics available (showable) as an option. The default is off. Players must want to find the setting and turn it on.

There are many, many ways to do a good parser that shows all areas of how a "good player" should be. It would be great to know how we're doing and compare it to the average-last-50-runs of the same instance or something like that.

I fully agree that we should not add "just a DPS parser." But, I really, really, really want a good parser that shows all the aspects of playing this game well.

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This game does not have agro management, FFXI did, this one no. If there is aggro/hate management issues it is a tank problem, it is that simple. A tank that wants to dps more can get agro management tools either by talking about it in a pug ( shadewaker from nin for opener, etc) or having DPS use their tools so they can do so, like diversion, refresh/tactics/ etc... The only argo heavy things that exist are heavy opening openers like my personal experience BLM and MCH, you could easy rip hate off mediocre tanks without using them with those hard hitting openers as well as ripping argo off bad tanks WHILE using them. I got kicked once for "hitting too much buttons" despite me pointing out I did quelling strikes with my raging strikes opener (and took hate after both fallen off, so it was not even heavy hitting damage that point)

You do not need an "agro metric" the game does that, and parsers from the dawn of time, ones that i seen in wow, along for ffxiv, have healing metrics like overheal who did most healing and so on. I am sure they have damage taken as well

mechanics-followed metric makes no sense, you can see that. (also can be seen with the damage taken stats)

Really though, still waiting on the main point of this thread though, why is there strict DPS checks and no official parser ? You do understand what the game does to DPS check right? like on niddy if you do not kill those adds fast enough, and it was common to see back at i200, then your party wipes and need start over. Has nothing to do with any other metric to get it done. In that situation it would be nice to see who is not doing enough dps so you can advice on what to do, or be forced to kick them because the reason you are wiping is because of this person not doing enough DPS because of the DPS check. If yoshi-p hates any form of harassment over doing enough dps , then you NEED TO REMOVE !!! DPS checks because having dps checks without parser makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

On the subject itself on enrage timers, they exist as another element of challenge to help EX and Savage content live up to their name. If there were no enrages then people would just endlessly do the mechanic dance once learned and eventually take down the boss. Making the difficulty of the difficulty become "learn the mechanic dance" which is something everyone can do.

If Savage and EX primals are there for people to push themselves, they need more then just a mechanic dance. They need a limiter beyond straight mechanics so they do not just half ass play their class and still clear. Hence why the enrages exist.

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Ok? what about the causal content that has them though?

No all the fights have 10min enraged, some have 15 min and others 8

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

However there is a much larger majority that use the data as an excuse to attack people because it validates their opinion that "you suck and should uninstall this game, you are a piece of shit blight on this community".

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You say that, but if anyone actually says something like that it's an easy temp ban at least (assuming they get reported, which they should).

Again, anecdotes, but I've literally had ONE person in the entirety of my playtime tell me I was doing poor DPS, and a) I was dead, and b) I was also parsing and saw that I was not.

Obviously, your mileage may vary...but again, parsing isn't the enemy. People who are a-holes are the enemy.

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Originally Posted by missybee

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In FFXIV I have not really had anyone telling me I was doing bad DPS.

In WoW it was once every other dungeon I did not run with friends.

While yes parsing by itself is not a bad thing, the main problem with it is that assholes love to be validated. It emboldens them to be even more belligerent then normal, and its something that parsers have historically lead to. As well as the eventual apathetic belief that reporting does nothing.

It is not that I do not think that parsers are bad, they can be used for good things. They just also bring more bad then good on a community level.

DPS classes have it so easy in this game they want to look at numbers while doing end-game raiding. That should tell you something right there.

No seriously; there are minimum ilevel requirements and the fights are tailored around that, and let's add; plus they are tailored pretty good around that with a good margin of people having human reflexes not to hit enrage, a parse was and never will be needed to clear an enrage. Don't be afk, don't die and your party will not enrage with the current content and fight requirements. Stop the BS to have a counter in-game which you can already use for crying out loud, in private, for whatever reason it is you think -you- need it. (grey area)

Didn't read all 17 pages, so not sure if this was stated. For as long as this argument about parsers has existed, most people involved are misguided in their belief on what happens with parsers being allowed.

The pro-parser crowd seems to be under the false belief that parsers will magically make terrible players play better by its allowance. For the 13+ years I've played WoW, this has not once been a fact. Not a single point in the games history has that been a universal action.

What is a fact about parsers though is that it helps everyone that is willing to improve. Bolded for emphasis. If the player currently is not willing to improve in this game, parsers will not do anything. I've seen arguments in response to that being along the lines of "well they would improve because people would call them out on it", but to that I have to point out how that is, in fact, the witch hunt mentality that the devs currently are against. It only hurts the pro-parser argument thinking that. For the individual and their static group, parsers are what you want to use if you want to improve. Given the situation unofficial allowance of parsers for such a thing, you're kind of set right now.

With the anti-parsers group, witch hunts already exist in some form. People that are d-bags are going to be d-bags with or without a parser. Once they cross a line, even if parsers were officially allowed, report them. Nothing changes from what it is now, besides the concept that they have one more tool to use to expose themselves. If anything, that can be looked at as a positive point. Peer pressure to improve is NOT always a bad thing. Most of the time, that can be good, especially if it's said player that is either causing the group to wipe or is always being carried. Being pushed to improve is normal in life. Don't want to be poor? Do what needs to be done to land a good job. The higher up the ranks you want to be, the more effort you have to put into it, even if the effort involves sacrifice.

Now when it comes to the devs, you gotta remember that it's under the general Japanese mentality. Working with what's there to improve, if that's what your goal is. Part of the "fun" being figuring it out and hoping for the best. Sometimes that involves being told every little detail, but it's rarely expected. I'd hope most of us would agree that anything outside of Savage and some Extreme fights at any point of this game, parsing isn't exactly a mandatory thing that upgrading some gear wouldn't solve for a player that plays all right. Yeah, it is kind of backwards as to why they don't just allow parsers officially, but not having their own system for it isn't unusual. That's actually par for the course.

I'm actually more of the pro-parser crowd than the anti. Despite that though, I personally do not find any significant reason for there to be any change on where we are now about it. It'd be nice that they were officially allowed, likewise with addon support in general, but parsers are not something that would change the game for the better, nor would it make it worse.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Ok? what about the causal content that has them though?

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When it comes to casual content they are only really used for fights that are intended to be somewhat difficult on release. Big example being Final Steps of Faith Nidhogg on release. However those fights are generally intended to be one and done. Once you beat the DPS check, which is often times balanced such that if you can do the mechanics of the fight and half decently play your class then you are going to pass, then that is it. You are basically home free to finish off what is after the DPS check phase. Keep doing mechanics properly and you will eventually clear. Once again, the example being Nidhogg.

In general when it comes to casual content enrage timers are very lax, long, and tend to be attached to a specific phase that once beaten will not be an issue for the rest of the fight. O3N for instance has a ~15 minute enrage timer on it that will only ever be hit if the group messes up too many times on mechanics and there are way too many deaths. In other words, when people are slowly learning the fight. I have only ever seen that enrage once.

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Originally Posted by missybee

You say that, but if anyone actually says something like that it's an easy temp ban at least (assuming they get reported, which they should).

Again, anecdotes, but I've literally had ONE person in the entirety of my playtime tell me I was doing poor DPS, and a) I was dead, and b) I was also parsing and saw that I was not.Obviously, your mileage may vary...but again, parsing isn't the enemy. People who are a-holes are the enemy.

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You can tell if someone is low dps without parsers but it requires a bit of a skill gap. Basically when you run DFs enough and the same one over and over, you learn what 2500 dps looks like, what 2000 dps looks like, and how slow it can be under that. You compare that (knowing how fast monsters should be dying) and put it next to the argo meter in game and you know who the issue is. Sometimes, well I actually stopped altogether because how people respond. Once I told i270 dps (during HW this was max) thier dps was low and I got the same thing "I was never told" I said it was easy to tell because things where dying way slow and you did not keep heavy thrust on. The reply to that was "it does not matter it is only expert my damage is fine" So this is why you most likely no one told you because the people that do know, fear backlash like this and give up saying anything. So even when I meet that whm that does zero DPS (literally zero dps, no assize) I say nothing. I may say a little bit if it cause a wipe like "hey swiftcast holy would do wonders to help heal less and help damage migration" but past that, I gave up trying to "help" people in random dfs, I do not need the stress of backlash armed with "you do not pay for my sub" and "it is only xxx, it is not savage it does not matter"

Also there is a much higher chance you never ran into someone that is aware what is going on, from what I seen, and my understanding, people either do not have the skill, or simply do not care.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

When it comes to casual content they are only really used for fights that are intended to be somewhat difficult on release. Big example being Final Steps of Faith Nidhogg on release. However those fights are generally intended to be one and done. Once you beat the DPS check, which is often times balanced such that if you can do the mechanics of the fight and half decently play your class then you are going to pass, then that is it. You are basically home free to finish off what is after the DPS check phase. Keep doing mechanics properly and you will eventually clear. Once again, the example being Nidhogg.

In general when it comes to casual content enrage timers are very lax, long, and tend to be attached to a specific phase that once beaten will not be an issue for the rest of the fight. O3N for instance has a ~15 minute enrage timer on it that will only ever be hit if the group messes up too many times on mechanics and there are way too many deaths. In other words, when people are slowly learning the fight. I have only ever seen that enrage once.

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I never time the fights but I seen 2 lb3s and a lb 1 on that. I do not know what enrage does on that but it just seemed it kept speeding up the mechanic and wasn't a big deal to me.

I still have an issue making this game that way. You can't make a game so easy you can pass it hitting 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 only for these players meet experienced ones and no one can beat something like final steps because there is too many people that do not know what to do, frustrating the experience ones, when someone does not listen why spamming blizzard III is bad. It just leaves everyone bitter at each other because the ice mage feels they shouldn't be told want to do, or follow something different, and may not even understand what a DPS check is. So really they should keep DPS checks out of casual content or give a paser. Again going with my story above, that is why people get up so high and not knowing how to play, because it is too easy to get up to that point, and leads to confusion and frustration when they got something like niddy saying "git gud"

In the end i think it i best for things to slowly ge3t more difficult as someone climbs in endgame, while it is unable to be carried. (or increasing the difficulty to be carried) so they actually learn because they have to.

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Originally Posted by eschaton

DPS classes have it so easy in this game they want to look at numbers while doing end-game raiding. That should tell you something right there.

Don't be afk, don't die and your party will not enrage with the current content and fight requirements.

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So I can just hit 1-2-3 and so long as I execute mechanics properly, we won't enrage?

Sounds pretty legit.

This post absolutely reeks of having never played a DPS in Savage or Coil. Playing DPS is extremely demanding as you are expected to execute your rotation nearly perfectly in addition to worrying about mechanics (not to mention being compared to the three other DPS in your party at all times). Healers and tanks obviously also have to be on point, but the rotation can be less strict (at least in the case of healers), and generally speaking they don't have to be as fixated on their DPS. Hell, I abandoned DPS for this tier of raiding because I just wasn't up for the challenge of playing a DPS this time around. I personally find playing healer in savage to be significantly less anxiety-provoking.

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Originally Posted by Nyxn607

Just a suggestion if you personally are not doing it already. Use your FC or group of friends if you don't want to take the chance of having a under performing player in the group. Also, keep in mind, everyone has their off day's. Judging someone from a single run is not doing justice for anyone. If they are consistently under performing, then yes, they need to pull their weight or gtfo.

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Oh I am not using parser right now thus I cant even judge people and I am mostly fine if people make mistake or are not playing perfectly (I dont play perfectly too) but when a former FC mate said how low they parsed some people in this content and how they needed to only use auto attack to get that low..then there is just no reason to take them through that content. And maybe those players dont even know that they are so bad. Other than the dummy there is no way to really see your numbers.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

In the end i think it i best for things to slowly get more difficult as someone climbs in endgame, while it is unable to be carried. (or increasing the difficulty to be carried) so they actually learn because they have to.

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The only way to make it so people are unable to carry others would be to enforce minimum ilvl. Otherwise the content is only difficult on release, as eventually it is going to become like it is now:

People get to Nidhogg with tanks/healers/dps pulled in from the roulette in mixed 320/330 gear who can curb stomp the fight and DPS check with little issue.

Other then that they do try to climb up the difficulty over time as you get closer to endgame, with a minor drop in difficulty for entry level warmup endgame before they start bringing in more difficult stuff. Though the level and story boosters kinda throw a wrench in that, as do large overhauls of the combat system.

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Originally Posted by Ralf2

I wish SE would ban accounts without warning for using parser just like SEGA.

http://pso2.jp/players/news/9224/

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And why do you wish that? Because you are not interested to optimize your rotations? Because you are not willing to learn? Because someone told you that your dps was bad? Or is it just because you didn't understand which purpose a parser really has? By the way does no one care what SEGA does because we are not playing a SEGA game.

A parser is a tool that can help you, your static and maybe your friends to get better in their rotations in specific fights and overall. I don't give a sh.. if the special snowflake, who just presses 1,2,3, does less dps in a normal dungeon because they are not hard at all but its sometimes really interesting to see how lazy some players are.

The parsing argument is the only time I see where people are like "we should have more options, so let's get parsers," followed by people saying "no we don't need new options be satisfied with what we have." The reasoning being based on a bunch of what-if scenarios or things completely unrelated to FFXIV as a whole, or simply people and their pessimism or lack of desire of something "possibly" happening.

It makes no sense to me, it'd be like saying let's not change or buff SMN at all, leave it as it is. We can't possibly have any outcome where the other casters are shown as weaker or that SMN may overpower it, because it could negatively influence some people, so we should not strive for any sort of change at all.

I don't think parsers will make people magically better, but I also don't think it'll magically make the community more toxic or exclusive either. There's far too much hyperbole around parsing at large.

One vote here for "Parsers are useful tools but don't be a tool if you're using a parser."

There is a very distinct influence that a visual representation of our performance can do to help us improve as players. Everything in this game is both numbers and performance, and without a parser, most people can't begin to find out how good they're doing in certain fights. Thank god i know people that can show me my numbers because I'm happy to know if I'm able to make it to a higher percentile than before. And with other fights, especially with what I see about SAM, people consider how certain rotations are better than others because of mechanics and transitions.

Let's not try and delude ourselves and believe that numbers aren't important in an RPG, a game with a foundation built on numbers.

Edit: Also besides rotation execution, I can take away other things that will improve overall DPS. As a tank main, positioning is definitely one of those things. When I had it suggested when people were still farming Susano EX that it would be more beneficial to tank the boss in the middle and as close as possible to the sink line, overall DPS flew up and we had it show.

They need to add a parser in game then ban ACT. Being able to read Battle performance is one thing, But being able to program it to do call triggers (like a11's 3 different choices of mechanics BEFORE the visual cues) and pingging Hunts.

But again, since we will never get a parser pc users will continue to have an unfair (and immoral) advantage over Consoles.

I'd still like fflogs to be a thing though and I seriously doubt ffxiv would support exporting fight data so I guess it's good for it to stay.


What was the point of my post again? Derp.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

They need to add a parser in game then ban ACT. Being able to read Battle performance is one thing, But being able to program it to do call triggers (like a11's 3 different choices of mechanics BEFORE the visual cues) and pingging Hunts.

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Uh.... as far as I'm aware, ACT can't ping Hunts. That's other outside programs like Guildworks. .-.

Edit: Asked around and apparently it can, but you have to be in the same zone as the hunt for it to. I don't even care enough about Hunts to bother using ACT for that. But having the Optical Sight triggers made the fight far more easier from a DPS perspective. Especially when in groups where we were trying our hardest to skip the Lapis phase entirely.

I wouldn't exactly call people "immoral" for using mechanic triggers. That's kinda pushing it.

And again I suport pro-parser as a ps4 player is extremely frustrating to not know what I'm doing and what can be imrpoved I've also notice alot of people here "claiming that others are claiming" that parser will magically make you better. You guys need the read better or having more of a common sense when reading, no one claims parsers will some how make you instanly better nor buff your character or knowledge but it does help analazing mid fight when certain rotations are bringing your dps down or when you are zoning and doing low damage for you to realize what you are doing is not helping then reacting and adjusting yourself to pull those numbers up back again, it also let's you know how your rotation adjustment on fight transition/mechanincs is paying off anyone who judges a dummy to measure your dps clearly has no idea or knowledge how a fight works or how damage works in the middle of a fight and I don't even have a parse but I know how much everything you do affects your overall performance. So no, no one believes a parser will make me better we all know that no one is this naive (I think).

also the anti-parser crowd just like always don't have any substantial counter other than they don't want so we should not have it because x y reasons of that one game that one time that person told about his friend while ignoring the fact parsers already exist and anyone with a pc and decent computing knowledge has and it's not a super secret only top raiders know. I've been playing this game since ps4 release and I've never EVER had any situation of anyone being harased for dps neither seen nor heard all I've seen is 1 dude back in alexander bragging about his numbers and everyone just laugh it off and moved on and I gave him the comm because it first time I could tell a dps was doing their job.

and like someone said just like it wont make someone magically better it wont make the community magicaly toxic.

I really believe SE has to be a bit experimental with this and try it out I would argue the NA community is fairly the toxiest (being fairly ignorant with that statement so don't take offence on that) so give us a parser for a couple of months and see how the community reacts if the reception is good keep it if the toxicity is increased and yoshi-p doesn't like it then take it out but just saying no and that's it is seriusly a poor answer and specially like the point of this threat why enforce so many tight dps checks and enrage but dps has literally 0 and I say again 0 in-game explanation, guidance or way to measure if they are doing their job properly and it's one of the issue the skill gap in this game is so drastic. if you don't do any reasearch and you just randomly push buttoms on the hotbar you will nont meet the dps checks numbers, numbers that have achieved thanks to theory crafters and the community that have developed rotations that you have no way of developing yourself without researching on the internet since the game does nothing to properly show you how to play your class once you hit level 70.

And I swear if I see somone else says "enrage is beatten by not dying" I'm going to loose it. anyone who has a similar mentality has no knowledge on how the content in this game works or has been carried by good player static. your dps matters and no matter how well you do mechanics you wont be V3s or V4s by just doing mechaninc please dont be naive.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You're not getting one.

https://clips.twitch.tv/EmpathicBlazingLasagnaThunBeast

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Which is silly. The question even specifically mentions a personal parser and highlights the disadvantage PS4 players have. SE has no means of tracking ACT, which prevents them from banning it even if they wanted to. This is simply the devs have a misconceived perception on parses, their impact and what people actually want them for.

I would love it if SE gave us an in-game parse (for ourselves, not everyone). Then I could actually know what I'm doing wrong and experiment without having to tab out all the time (a process so arduous that I avoid it completely). For those who argue 3k was easy to hit during the first week of savage raids, I have to disagree. I hit over 3k just fine, but most people didn't. I mean it, in my experience, they didn't. According to the kind strangers who were parsing in most of these attempts of savage/extreme content, half of the DPS were less than 2500. I think that giving us a way to meter ourselves would be a great benefit to the game and make pugs more fun in general.

In Japan you could pug a12s and do well, mostly because everyone was willing to teach others. In North America, however, learning parties are almost non-existent. And I think I know why. Let me quote a helpful someone from my FC: "I'm all for helping people learn the fight, but I'm not going to teach them their class." I think we'd be more helpful in general if we knew that everyone who joined cared enough to learn their rotation first. You can learn a mechanic in 5 minutes, but learning a rotation in less than 2 hours while also learning a mechanic is near impossible.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

There's far too much hyperbole around parsing at large.

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Same hyperbole when people make any laws. I see the benefit for individuals, not community. It's good for specific type of players but not all.
The argument that SE have to make this is false because it's already around for those individuals. PS4 issue is issue for the tool maker not SE.
DPS checks already have a measurement, it's called the health bar. The problem is people don't want to play nice together in a random setting.
Having rationed damage makes it fair but fair isn't what people look in df, it's clears. A DPS check for individual like they did A12/s is better
than pointing guns at people to do X damage. That's what leaderboard do. SE needs the flexibility to tune down/up their fights without
some individuals telling others you have to do X damage without knowing changes made by SE.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I wouldn't exactly call people "immoral" for using mechanic triggers. That's kinda pushing it.

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I don't want to derail the threat on this topic and also I don't think it's "immoral" but I do not agree with the use of mechanic triggers that's cheating on every right of the word, I don't mind the little trick attack or balance callout but you are basically reliying on a 3rd party to call mechanincs for you as oppose for you to be paying attention you are definitely on a higher advantage avobe anyone without those tools that need to put more awareness into paying attention into the fight and doing optimal damage. that one fuction I do not mind it see go.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

I don't want to derail the threat on this topic and also I don't think it's "immoral" but I do not agree with the use of mechanic triggers that's cheating on every right of the word, I don't mind the little trick attack or balance callout but you are basically reliying on a 3rd party to call mechanincs for you as oppose for you to be paying attention you are definitely on a higher advantage avobe anyone without those tools that need to put more awareness into paying attention into the fight and doing optimal damage. that one fuction I do not mind it see go.

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How is this any different than people calling out mechanics over discord? A lot of groups have one or two players calling mechanics because ranged jobs have a much easier time noticing and won't require much movement. For pug groups, I honestly couldn't care less how they go about it, provided the end result is a clear.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

They need to add a parser in game then ban ACT. Being able to read Battle performance is one thing, But being able to program it to do call triggers (like a11's 3 different choices of mechanics BEFORE the visual cues) and pingging Hunts.

But again, since we will never get a parser pc users will continue to have an unfair (and immoral) advantage over Consoles.

I'd still like fflogs to be a thing though and I seriously doubt ffxiv would support exporting fight data so I guess it's good for it to stay.


What was the point of my post again? Derp.

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Yeah the nasty PC users who are able to use a parser that also has other options. That means naturally that every PC player uses the other options and not just the plain parser. How about you stop blaming PC players and start blaming SE...

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

How is this any different than people calling out mechanics over discord? A lot of groups have one or two players calling mechanics because ranged jobs have a much easier time noticing and won't require much movement. For pug groups, I honestly couldn't care less how they go about it, provided the end result is a clear.

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because it requires atleast those 2 players to be paying attention to the fight to make those callouts to help the group as a whole to progress having a program do it for you defeats a lot of the difficulty for most of the savage fights, I guess it comes to personal opinion (which i dissagree it's cheating on my book) maybe doesn't matter much for pugs but for world/server progression is a big adavanatge (another to add over ps4 users) please give us parser lol

I personally think that the situation we're in right now is at it's peak. I can't even expect or hope for good random DPS and the sad part is, in all of my extreme primal farms, 99% of the DPS I met have done less than decent damage. And they do less than decent damage right in front of my salad!?!?! The game tells you what to do but people aren't listening.
This is insanity!!!!! The vast majority of the playerbase is doing a terrible job at having a functional brain. This drags down other people who put effort into being a good DPS.

Square Enix
ITS TIME TO STOP

Implement a parser so people can clearly see, they are dragging down other people, they need to improve.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

because it requires atleast those 2 players to be paying attention to the fight to make those callouts to help the group as a whole to progress having a program do it for you defeats a lot of the difficulty for most of the savage fights

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I also view automatised callouts as cheating and they're definitely an unfair advantage for the PC players who choose to use them. (I also admit to using one for Coil 5 Death Sentence back then before our PLD tank made a party macro for it. Haven't used them since then and would not use them.)

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Originally Posted by Cherub

Implement a parser so people can clearly see, they are dragging down other people, they need to improve.

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The problem is that most of the time they don't care at all about that to begin with, a parser will not magically make ppl become better, they need to want to and that is regardless of parsers, everytime a friend of mine starts the game he asks me where they can learn rotations and stats of the job they want to play.
Parsers are tools but if the behaviors are flawed they won't help to make things better at all

Parsers are useless.

Let's say you have one, and you do your rotation. But when you see your number, you're clearly lacking...then what ?
Is the parser telling you where you lack ? When you lack ? What you did wrong ? No. It just show you number, and you have to deal with it.

If you don't care about improving, you won't really analyze what you did wrong, and how you can improve. And if you care, you won't need a parser to talk with others who master your job, ask them for advice, look at guides, and train with the proper dummy.

The only way to improve is by seeing your numbers. Yes , we have a dummy to play around with. Some can break susano ex with a lot of seconds left and some with 1sc or 2sc and they think they doing well. Don't get me wrong you are doing something right BUT how can you optimize what you doing without knowing what is it that you are missing or doing wrong? Without knowledge of your input?

I still feel that a personal in game parser should be available for all.

V1s kinda proves the point.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Parsers are useless.

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A lot of tools are useless without proper education on how to use them. But they're still good tools nonetheless.

Even if we were to accept the parser as useless, I would still like quantified data of performance rather than having to make assumptions that maybe I'm kind of pulling my weight possibly in my group. I know that's not everyone but I never claimed it was--this is simply my reason for wanting a parser.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Parsers are useles

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Comments like this make zero sense at all. Again I'll use my , pvp example again so since numbers don't matter. If ur a rookie at pvp u start pvp and at first ur doing ten k damage and zero kills etc. So ur telling me when u start to see 100k damage 80 k damage as opposed to where u started seeing that improvement means nothing becaause for me it did when I go into pvp front lines nine times out of ten I'm not winning. But what I can do is look at my on personal stats of improvement because Se will actually show us numbers there unlike pve

Honestly, parsers are a waste of space in this game. The ui is full enough already. It's not needed at all. You practice on dummies and practice run. That's how this game is played.

Oh and as a note. Look at wow. Just look at how much vile and hate the dps meters bring to the game. It's at a point where a simple parser is locking potential raiders out of progression. Take a step back an think for a second.

Look at this game. Look at how much time you spend training, figuring out and improving focus just to down that broken AF boss! That's the game right there! Simplify the process and you're back here complaining about dead game, nothing to do, rip, fire content producers etc etc. Trust in square. They've shown theyre more than capable to handle ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Parsers are useless.
Let's say you have one, and you do your rotation. But when you see your number, you're clearly lacking...then what

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So that's when you try different rotations at the time or hold cds etc for another time to see if it increased your dps or not. Can't people stop pretend its a magical boost for your dps?It's a tool to HELP you, which means it will let you know if you do bad or good, then you need to see on your own what works best for you. If it increases those numbers, means you did better.
You are pretty much saying that if I give you a screwdriver you gonna start using it as a hammer.... It's how you are educated or teached how to use them. Anyone who uses a parser, well most know how it truely works.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

A lot of tools are useless without proper education on how to use them. But they're still good tools nonetheless.

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Pretty much this.

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Originally Posted by MyaValentine

I don't want to derail the threat on this topic and also I don't think it's "immoral" but I do not agree with the use of mechanic triggers that's cheating on every right of the word, .

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So you are cheating and your friends, because someone calls out the mechanic for you all? Okay gotcha.

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Originally Posted by Skogli

Honestly, parsers are a waste of space in this game. The ui is full enough already. It's not needed at all. You practice on dummies and
.

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What game are you even talkin about I dono what game your talkin about but , this game isnt friendly nor nice this is just people and they can be toxic parser or not. This is still the game where people leave duties right away when they see new players, the same one where people leave pratice groups in two seconds, same one that has no bonus in every group even in unsync runs. So stop pretending like a parser would make things worse if people are rude they will be rude anyway. And again no it may not be called a parse but SE already shows us damage in pvp and I wouldnt say thats anymore toxic than pve is currently. And also most people that do endgame would like to know how they are preforming otherwise what are they even doing it for?

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

So you are cheating and your friends, because someone calls out the mechanic for you all? Okay gotcha.

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It's a very different thing to have players paying attention to the fight and then calling out what's happening based on that and have an external program automate that process for you...