Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cryptic_angel

It has been stated several times that in 2.0 there was a lack of interest in raiding because of myth gear. That was the reason SE buffed the ilvl of the allagan weapons, because the BCoB had no other incentives other than BiS and Vanity at the time.

---

This is an assumption and a poor one at that. I didn't raid in 2.0 not because i90 was available outside of raiding, but because my schedule, and own confidence, prevented me from wanting to attempt it. Gear availability had absolutely nothing to do with my decision. I highly doubt I am the only one.

That aside. Why do so many people care about what other people have/don't have?

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73...8f9c8b0460.jpg

Do people just go around examining other's and evaluate their worth by comparing a gearscore? That sounds like an awful existence.

Shouldn't we be more concerned with whether the end game content is a fair test of team's combined skill and not the actual statistics on the gear? I enjoy working in a team to tackle hard challenges and the cool looking gear that comes from it, but the statistical value of equipment will be deprecated with time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

Do people just go around examining other's and evaluate their worth by comparing a gearscore? That sounds like an awful existence.

---

Right? Who cares if someone gets i110 in one week? They will be idling in centers of city's just thinking of what to do next anyway, or doing what I do when I'm not hunting (leveling crafting/gathering classes).

Also people will raid when the new raid's item level exceeds i110. It's as simple as that really..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

I didn't raid in 2.0 not because i90 was available outside of raiding, but because my schedule, and own confidence, prevented me from wanting to attempt it. Gear availability had absolutely nothing to do with my decision. I highly doubt I am the only one..

---

On the other hand, I'm sure many people like me who simply refused to do Twintania because the weapons it dropped were either equal or straight up inferior to relic +1. Not to mention the amount of BiS pieces from Twin was less than you had party members (I think it was 5 pieces total). So when they buffed it, invigorated our desire to actually fight and win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

Your kidding yourself if you think this was ever the case.

1999 we raided X and Y events until when? We had the loot. Then you didn't do the events again for YEARS. Now? Sure we go run Plane of Time randomly for fun but thats YEARS later. No one raided current or last tier content and destroyed all the loot.

---

And you're kidding yourself if you think people solely raid for gear. People raid for several reasons. To imply that raiding ends because an "easier" alternative exists to equivalent gear is incorrect because I still see Coil 1 learning parties.

Nothing wrong with other people getting their gear. Issue arises when hunt rewards are so good compared to everything else in the game. PF has been horrible since 2.3. Very few groups even attempting Ramuh Ex because hunt rewards are too good. People dropping out of dungeons and ST because someone said "S Rank Up" in a linkshell.

Its fine for players to have access to Sands at this point, but it has had a very negative impact on the other content surrounding the game. Who runs dungeons anymore when you can get faster myth/sol from hunts? IMO they should just remove myth/sol rewards from hunts completely.

Well I don't know why people wouldn't still raid. I have been doing research as I'm close to getting 50 now and from what I have been reading I'll be using hunts a stepping stone to catch up gear wise so that I can actually DO the raids. As a tank, this was something I was worried about coming into the game a year after release. Just because I'm not getting an upgrade every run through doesn't mean I don't want to do them a bunch!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stoxastic

Who runs dungeons anymore when you can get faster myth/sol from hunts? IMO they should just remove myth/sol rewards from hunts completely.

---

Plenty of people ran Halatali Hard and Lost City of Amdapor instead of Brayflox Hard even when Brayflox was the most efficient myth.
Is it that difficult to understand that not everyone is interested in only doing what's most efficient?
Especially when "most efficient" results in tons of drama, stress and other stuff that is negative to the player...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

This is an assumption and a poor one at that.

---

So what was the reason that SE raised the Allagan weapons to ilvl95? Its pretty simple on this one that they did it to create incentive to beat Coils. Raids as difficult as Coils should always drop the best gear. Idea of upgrading Gerolt gear was nice in a sense that you still had to overcome difficult content to obtain a Sands. I am also okay with obtaining Sands by means outside raids, but the Hunt system was the worst way to do it. Everyone and their mothers are now getting Sands, which have now reduced the value of ilvl110 gear. This shouldn't be a thing till 2.4 at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

On the other hand, I'm sure many people like me who simply refused to do Twintania because the weapons it dropped were either equal or straight up inferior to relic +1. Not to mention the amount of BiS pieces from Twin was less than you had party members (I think it was 5 pieces total). So when they buffed it, invigorated our desire to actually fight and win.

---

So you value a number on your character sheet more than the experience you have. That's fine, but also doesn't explain why somebody else's number matters so much to you. I stand by my previous comment. Comparing numbers on character sheets to determine worth does not sound like fun to me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

So what was the reason that SE raised the Allagan weapons to ilvl95? Its pretty simple on this one that they did it to create incentive to beat Coils. Raids as difficult as Coils should always drop the best gear. Idea of upgrading Gerolt gear was nice in a sense that you still had to overcome difficult content to obtain a Sands. I am also okay with obtaining Sands by means outside raids, but the Hunt system was the worst way to do it. Everyone and their mothers are now getting Sands, which have now reduced the value of ilvl110 gear. This shouldn't be a thing till 2.4 at least.

---

I didn't say this wasn't the reason, I said that it was an assumption. In this case one made by the development team. Where is their source? The fact that people were not running coil has no indication of WHY they weren't running coil. They guessed, plain and simple. They believed the reward to be the reason, so they changed it based on that assumption. I'd love to see how many MORE people began doing coil merely because a new i95 weapon was put in there. Ones that weren't doing coil prior to that, and did so ONLY because of the new weapon. I bet that number is insignificant.

Don't get me wrong, I think they botched the implementation of hunts, but not because people can get upgrades there. I don't care where people get upgrades, chasing numbers is not why I play games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

So you value a number on your character sheet more than the experience you have. That's fine, but also doesn't explain why somebody else's number matters so much to you. I stand by my previous comment. Comparing numbers on character sheets to determine worth sounds awful.

---

Have you never played MMO's? This has been a thing since Dungeons & Dragons table top games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

I didn't say this wasn't the reason, I said that it was an assumption. In this case one made by the development team. Where is their source? The fact that people were not running coil has no indication of WHY they weren't running coil. They guessed, plain and simple. They believed the reward to be the reason, so they changed it based on that assumption. I'd love to see how many MORE people began doing coil merely because a new i95 weapon was put in there. Ones that weren't doing coil prior to that, and did so ONLY because of the new weapon. I bet that number is insignificant.

Don't get me wrong, I think they botched the implementation of hunts, but not because people can get upgrades there. I don't care where people get upgrades, chasing numbers is not why I play games.

---

I can't speak on behalf of the entire community, but I know in my team at least, before they upgraded the weapons, half of my team had little incentive to push harder in Coils since they had ilvl90 weapons already. The drive and momentum definitely kicked up a notch when they were upgraded to ilvl95. People like the best, not simply alternatives.

While you may not care, there are a ton of players who do care about "chasing numbers". Its a standard mind set in end game MMO's. If they make it that gear is much more easier to obtain than it was in a previous patch without drastically better alternatives (like from 2.1 to 2.2), then that is simply bad design. Its kind of a middle finger to those who worked hard to get ilvl110, now everyone is getting up to that point and there isn't even better gear to aim towards for the ilvl110 player. Its an understatement that 2.3 is more of a catching up patch, but people shouldn't be jumping numbers this high only a little over a week of patch. Like I said once, I am just as guilty getting three Sands to BiS my MNK, but doesn't make the system any less corrupt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Have you never played MMO's? This has been a thing since Dungeons & Dragons table top games.

---

Every game I have played was for the experience had and the enjoyment of said game. The journey is as important as the destination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

I can't speak on behalf of the entire community, but I know in my team at least, before they upgraded the weapons, half of my team had little incentive to push harder in Coils since they had ilvl90 weapons already. The drive and momentum definitely kicked up a notch when they were upgraded to ilvl95. People like the best, not simply alternatives.

---

Your static would not fall into the set of players I described. If the assumption is that the weapons were upgraded to get people to go into coil, your team is outside of the group for which the upgrade was implemented. If you are counting your group among the reason that the weapons were improved then it wasn't implemented to get more players into coil. If the consideration was made for teams like yours, then they were upgraded to make raiders feel like they had a reason to raid. Those are very different reasons. It means that the upgrade was for raiders, not to bait non-raiders into raiding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

While you may not care, there are a ton of players who do care about "chasing numbers". Its a standard mind set in end game MMO's. If they make it that gear is much more easier to obtain than it was in a previous patch without drastically better alternatives (like from 2.1 to 2.2), then that is simply bad design. Its kind of a middle finger to those who worked hard to get ilvl110, now everyone is getting up to that point and there isn't even better gear to aim towards for the ilvl110 player. Its an understatement that 2.3 is more of a catching up patch, but people shouldn't be jumping numbers this high only a little over a week of patch. Like I said once, I am just as guilty getting three Sands to BiS my MNK, but doesn't make the system any less corrupt.

---

Then you must have hated 2.0 to 2.1, where philosophy rained from the sky and myth cap was raised. i90 was much easier to obtain and there was no drastically better alternatives. This is the patch cycle, and it isn't like this was sprung on people last minute. It makes me wonder why the raiding community bothers to sub for more than a month at a time and only when a new raid patch gets released.

Also, I don't have a problem with people chasing numbers. What I don't understand is why those that do care so much about what someone else's numbers are. The only reason I can think of is that they want to compare the two and use it as evidence to say "I'm better, because my number is higher."

People like job metaphors, so I'll use one now. Do you compare your salary to your friends and say "I'm better because I make more." My response to that: "Then Donald Sterling is better than you..."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

So you value a number on your character sheet more than the experience you have. That's fine, but also doesn't explain why somebody else's number matters so much to you. I stand by my previous comment. Comparing numbers on character sheets to determine worth does not sound like fun to me

---

The experience is only fun for the first time you do it (except Titan Extreme, which is hilarious every single time I do it to see someone get landslided off). If I've said that their number bothers me, I've gotten over it. Nearly or full i110 won't cure stupid, so it will no longer bother me.

I have a simple solutions for crying elitists: Stop being so exclusive and condescending to others who have not completed the raid yet = profit for everyone.

People keep mentioning the argument that players will continue to run content regardless of gear rewards.

However I don't feel this is the case. Maybe initially but over time the rewards are what peak players interest. Sure the first one or two times you enter the dungeon it's going to be for fun. After that unless you just REALLY REALLY enjoy the dungeon...your going to only go in there when you want something. I know many static groups who cleared Ramuh Ex once for the clear...and have no intentions of ever going back in because there is no reward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

Every game I have played was for the experience had and the enjoyment of said game. The journey is as important as the destination.

---

Experience can only be enjoyed but so much. It eventually goes to wanting to set new goals for yourself, which gearing up is the common next goal.

Quote:

---

Then you must have hated 2.0 to 2.1, where philosophy rained from the sky and myth cap was raised. i90 was much easier to obtain and there was no drastically better alternatives. This is the patch cycle, and it isn't like this was sprung on people last minute. It makes me wonder why the raiding community bothers to sub for more than a month at a time and only when a new raid patch gets released.

---

People did not get ilvl90 gear no where near the speed that people are getting ilvl110 now. Myth was still capped regardless of the cap increasing. ilvl100 gear accumulated over 2.2 can now be upgraded to ilvl110 in a very short time due to the hunts. There are already reports of people getting 6-7 Sands of Time and the patch is only little over a week old. In 2.1, you were still very limited and still took time to get gear. Yes it was easier, but was still balanced at a steady pace. Way it is right now is borderline chaotic.

Quote:

---

Also, I don't have a problem with people chasing numbers. What I don't understand is why those that do care so much about what someone else's numbers are. The only reason I can think of is that they want to compare the two and use it as evidence to say "I'm better, because my number is higher."

---

Its called being competitive, its human nature. I am always comparing myself to others because when someone is performing higher than me, it influences me to go back and see what I can do to improve myself. Its beneficial to both myself and my party. Its fine if you are willing to settle with what you have, but who is going to get picked, the guy who is constantly improving himself, or the person who just settled with what they have because it is "good enough"?

Quote:

---

People like job metaphors, so I'll use one now. Do you compare your salary to your friends and say "I'm better because I make more." My response to that: "Then Donald Sterling is better than you..."

---

That is not really a good analogy to describe the argument. If we have the same job/role and he is making more than me, then I need to go back and find out why he is making more and continue to improve myself to reach the same level he is. He worked hard to make more than me. Believe it or not, there is even competition in the work place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

[...]see what I can do to improve myself[...]

---

I am sad that it takes someone else to inspire or motivate this desire in oneself. That is the crux of the problem, I refer back to the CK image. This motivation should not be based on some comparison of ones self to another. It would imply that once they perceive that they are "the best" they have no more room for improvement. One should always strive to be better, even if they think they are the best.

For the people who are mentioning individuals who are getting full i110 in under 2 weeks, keep in mind that we're talking about a very small segment of players who are capitalizing on the weakness of the hunt system. Namely, that the system is defenseless against client side programs that can tell them when and where these NMs spawn. I have a feeling that if the system were working as Yoshi intended it to, this would not be happening, but because people were clamouring for unrestricted, open world end-game content, Yoshi is now dealing with the brave new world (or old world, depending on your view point) of open world content.

The most immediate solution would be to completely revamp it to a hunt system more like from FFXII, where you get a bill for a particular mark and then you follow a list of clues to hunt down said mark, with the entire affair acting in all respects equivalent to a levequest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Its called being competitive, its human nature. I am always comparing myself to others because when someone is performing higher than me, it influences me to go back and see what I can do to improve myself. Its beneficial to both myself and my party. Its fine if you are willing to settle with what you have, but who is going to get picked, the guy who is constantly improving himself, or the person who just settled with what they have because it is "good enough"?

---

I'm going to snip this part out, because I have a really big problem with this statement. Competition is good. Competition is great. It pushes you to be better, to pull higher numbers, to streamline and optimize your rotation and learn mechanics.

What you're talking about is not competition. That random guy who's i108 but hasn't even entered second coil? You're not competing with him. Nothing about him is pushing you to better yourself, he's not even related to you in ANY way. He's a distant entity who you will never encounter, and, even if you do, if he wasn't in second coil and you were, you're probably going to be performing better than him anyway.

What you're talking about is ePeen. You want to be viewed as higher tiered than the other guy, which is something entirely seperate from good, healthy competition. You're not kidding anyone by trying to say "But teh randoms make me want to better myself!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eissels

I'm going to snip this part out, because I have a really big problem with this statement. Competition is good. Competition is great. It pushes you to be better, to pull higher numbers, to streamline and optimize your rotation and learn mechanics.

What you're talking about is not competition. That random guy who's i108 but hasn't even entered second coil? You're not competing with him. Nothing about him is pushing you to better yourself, he's not even related to you in ANY way. He's a distant entity who you will never encounter, and, even if you do, if he wasn't in second coil and you were, you're probably going to be performing better than him anyway.

What you're talking about is ePeen. You want to be viewed as higher tiered than the other guy, which is something entirely seperate from good, healthy competition. You're not kidding anyone by trying to say "But teh randoms make me want to better myself!"

---

Its called subtle competition. So you are telling me if you are in T8 and there is another MNK there around your ilvl doing much higher than you, you have no influence to figure out why or want to improve yourself? No one is calling out the person like "Haw haw I am doing better than you.". If I see someone doing better than me, I might ask what he does to achieve those numbers. I am not directly competing with him, but it is competition in my head to out DPS him. When I figure out how to go to his numbers or better, I found a way to improve myself, which ultimately made things better for me. I have never once in my MMO career have I used an "ePeen" attitude at someone. Only time it is appropriate to call someone out is if they are doing drastically lower than the required DPS for said fight.

Also, what does it matter if it is someone random or someone I know? If a random person is doing better than me, then I want to know what he is doing to perform better than me. I take the feedback and use it to improve myself, what does it matter where I get it from? Guides, YouTube videos, in game experience, it doesn't matter. Information is information.

Can call it out any way you like, but it improves myself and ultimately my group, who appreciate my efforts at the end of the day as I do for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eissels

So uh, sorry to Hijack, but uh... Can...Can I get in on this? c.c;;

My FC has been focused on other things. ;w;

---

Send me a tell when I'm on and I can try to set something up :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

snip

---

If I'm in T8, and there's another MNK pulling much higher than me, of course that's going to inspire competition, but that's not what this thread is talking about. This thread is talking about random casual people who don't raid getting i110 gear, and why that's a "problem."

If there are two monks in one run, it's going to inspire competition. But, here's the thing - we're not talking about two raiders in a raid. We're talking about raiders, and casual people who get their gear from hunts. They are two entirely seperate groups.

I fully support being competitive if there's another DRG you know, doing more DPS than you, and that inspires you to get better. But what on *earth* does that have to do with some random guy standing around in Mor'dhona in full Soldiery gear that he got from hunts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fendred

Namely, that the system is defenseless against client side programs that can tell them when and where these NMs spawn.

---

This is a huge huge fallacy... Most of the players who are successful at hunts are doing well because they've studied the patterns not because of some silly program.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fendred

Namely, that the system is defenseless against client side programs that can tell them when and where these NMs spawn.

---

Actually, the respawn timers of elite's are common knowledge at this point, so all it takes is having a few people in a zone around the time they're going to spawn to find one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fendred

Namely, that the system is defenseless against client side programs that can tell them when and where these NMs spawn. I have a feeling that if the system were working as Yoshi intended it to, this would not be happening, but because people were clamouring for unrestricted, open world end-game content, Yoshi is now dealing with the brave new world (or old world, depending on your view point) of open world content.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabian

This is a huge huge fallacy... Most of the players who are successful at hunts are doing well because they've studied the patterns not because of some silly program.

---

Exactly, the best way to be successful at hunts is to record when hunts die and when they're going to respawn. If you know a monster is going to spawn, you just keep 5-10 people in that zone during that time and you don't need a radar to find it.

That and the hunts all have a limited number of spawn locations spread throughout the map. After a while you figure out what those are. It's much quicker to check known spawn points as opposed to doing a full sweep of the map.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felessan

Seems different interview. I saw one when YoshiP said that they were surpised how fast SCoB got downed and they expected it to last longer. But than they look how broader population progress and it was within their expectation range.
There are actually a lot of ppl that are actively raiding but still not downed T9, in our FC only 1 static did it (and quite some time ago) and at least 3 other still trying it on various phases.

---

I found the interview I was referring to, the part I mentioned is near the middle of the page:
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2014/0...naoki-yoshida/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felessan

Echo is the same as gear upgrade - just plain improvements of your stats. 10 levels of ilvl upgrade is about the same as 15% echo buff. Echo buff was just given to further decrease difficulty of certain encounters without having impact on the new content.
Tell the truth T6, T8-T9 are scales nicely with gear, becoming easier and easier, especially if you go through certain thresholds. Same was with Coil1 where overgear (and later echo) allowed to use simpler mechanics. Twintania with ilvl110 and 20%echo is really a joke, there are just no places where hp/healing/dps could lack even if the players are "not best" of the crowd. Just know what to do on divebombs and twisters - and you are safe.

---

The bolded part is what I feel right now is even though you are correct, most people just can't do it which is why Yoshida has already confirmed nerfs coming to the Twintania encounters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nekodar

It's pretty much impossible to fully deck out two different jobs in full soldiery as there haven't been enough weeks since 2.2 to actually buy all pieces for two.
Find me someone that have two jobs fully decked out in different soldiery tome gear. Zero overlap.

Unless I calculated wrong, it has so far been possible to obtain 8550 soldiery tomestones.
Fully decking out one job takes 5010 tomestones if you can only get one ring, and this is not counting weapon.
Fully decking out two jobs with no overlap in gear would take a minimum of 10020 tomestones, or 4 more weeks of capping soldiery.

---

While I had done really quick napkin map during break at work so it seems my numbers were way off, so thanks to you and everyone who did actual calculation!

Though the argument that soldiery caps works as a soft cap for sands is pretty irrelevant when it's still possible to use so many at once before it actually becomes a soft cap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

Your viewpoint has been argued and found to be untrue, please try to follow the thread and such.

---

Not my problem if you and others in this thread lack basic reading comprehension.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

The experience is only fun for the first time you do it.

---

To a degree, pretty much. While a lot of people enjoy their experience for the first few times, the motivation after becomes gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

They're really a good test of playability with your job. Fun stuffs.

---

Nope, they test your latency and lag. And your patience. That's all.

So I have a hunting question, would I have to dedicate my life to hunting once I join an ls and abandon all other activity? Id hate to get kicked because my girlfriend wanted some quality time.

If I designed this game I would do the exact same thing they did and offer different upgrade paths for different skill levels. I wouldn't be thinking about just the hard-core gamer I would be thinking the casual gamers and older players and new players and solo etc. Then I would give other tools for people to get better if they wanted like FC or that kind player that helped me in the dungeon and gave me tips. I also would understand that some peoples goals are rewarding just by upgrading gear and not being able to clear Scob. But that seemingly sounds unrealistic lolz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giyari

So I have a hunting question, would I have to dedicate my life to hunting once I join an ls and abandon all other activity? Id hate to get kicked because my girlfriend wanted some quality time.

---

I Play the "Then maybe this MMO isn't for you" forum card!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

I Play the "Then maybe this MMO isn't for you" forum card!

---

In response I tap 2 islands and say "No".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giyari

In response I tap 2 islands and say "No".

---

I tap a green and hit you in the throat.

I have no interest in Coil, yet I still want to progress my character horizontally. This current gearing system allows me to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Furthermore, in a game where all raiding is instanced competition for targets is a non-issue.

The crux of the matter is simply the raiding crowd are feeling upset their snowflake status is diminished.

---

And evidently the non raid crowd will be upset if they can't be snowflakes too.

Funny how that statement works both ways isn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirenRanger

I have a simple solutions for crying elitists: Stop being so exclusive and condescending to others who have not completed the raid yet = profit for everyone.

---

^ see above or I'll make it easy.

"I have a simple solutions (there shouldn't be an "s" there btw) for crying casuals: Stop being so entitled and envious to (of) others who have put in the time and energy to complete the raid(s) and instead get the gear for the level of play you are at = profit for everyone"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

The term raider in this game is more a catch-all for someone who lives on the game so you could equally use "hardcore" or "no-lifer" as a tag although I appreciate that is a slight over-generalisation because there are people who raid and do so on a restricted timeframe but let's not delude ourselves, most hardcores spend every available waking hour on this game. For them to then suddenly have the one defining aspect of their lives trivialised by "filthy entitled casuals" is the continually burning core of this whole thread.

The sad fact is, ever since Blizzard opened up MMOs to the globe the clock started ticking down on the genre's demise. The current state of this game only evidences that fact. Which is why, all poking fun aside, I struggle to get as bent out of shape by these games now as I once did when I can see the direction they're all heading inexorably toward.

---

Hardcore or no-lifer? Raiding is literally the least time consuming activity in this game. Takes more time to cap soldiery than it does to raid since we get NO CONTENT.

You know who I see spending every available waking hour on this game? The people doing hunts. I'm in 2 (I know of 4) full 128 man linkshells. 90% of them are casuals who suddenly can get raid gear by clicking on a <pos> and following the crowd.

S ranks dieing at 5 am on a week day? Damn sure it isn't any of the raiders I know.. we have these things called jobs.

Your 2nd paragraph is interesting. Because you agree but your just going to lay down and die? How about actively trying to help make a change so MMOs aren't dead in the next 10 years. The Wildstar guys are trying (I think the game looks dumb as hell graphically but at least they are trying to change the MMO's current design of "pander to the lowest common denominator at every turn")

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elyana_Starfall

Put a cap on allied seals (1 gear-enhancing item per week) -> problem mostly solved

---

Except hunts DROP the logs (worth 250 seals) so this wouldn't actually solve anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by L-D-Omlette

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73...8f9c8b0460.jpg

Do people just go around examining other's and evaluate their worth by comparing a gearscore? That sounds like an awful existence.

---

Then tell the people crying they can't get ilvl 110 without raiding that. Because that's the only reason were in this situation and why were going down the road where they may as well just remove raid content and call it a day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fendred

Namely, that the system is defenseless against client side programs that can tell them when and where these NMs spawn.

---

Have you looked at the screen shots or read anything about it or are you just following propoganda? That addon shows nothing more than what is within draw distance (aka if your in a flat expanse the furthest mob you can see anyway). I have found plenty of hunts simply by running around doing my animus book killing. And when there are 500+ people running circles....... Yea it isn't hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

And evidently the non raid crowd will be upset if they can't be snowflakes too.

Funny how that statement works both ways isn't it?

---

no, it doesn't.

non-raid people are okay if everyone is i110.

only people like you are not okay with everyone being i110.

a snowflake implies uniqueness, if the non-raid people is okay with everyone being the same, they are not upset that they can't be snowflakes. they are upset they can't be the same as everyone else who plays.

being upset at not being equal is not the same as being upset at not being different.

your logic is so bad.

I think it is implied they want to be special too, being clad i110 gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SendohJin

no, it doesn't.

non-raid people are okay if everyone is i110.

only people like you are not okay with everyone being i110.

a snowflake implies uniqueness, if the non-raid people is okay with everyone being the same, they are not upset that they can't be snowflakes. they are upset they can't be the same as everyone else who plays.

being upset at not being equal is not the same as being upset at not being different.

your logic is so bad.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

I think it is implied they want to be special too, being clad i110 gear.

---

^ Apparently this concept was too hard to grasp.

Crying you can't be in raid gear without raiding.



Also I'm not 110 nor do I raid currently. Haven't in a couple months. But I am yet to go through the devolution that makes me suddenly believe I should get raid loot without raiding. I have a gun ready for that day... I don't want to turn into some illogical soulless monster that kills genres.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

^ Apparently this concept was too hard to grasp.

Crying you can't be in raid gear without raiding.



Also I'm not 110 nor do I raid currently. Haven't in a couple months. But I am yet to go through the devolution that makes me suddenly believe I should get raid loot without raiding. I have a gun ready for that day... I don't want to turn into some illogical soulless monster that kills genres.

---

Face it man, its the number, not the stats. If the ilevel was listed as 111 or 115 you'd be all smiles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

Face it man, its the number, not the stats. If the ilevel was listed as 111 or 115 you'd be all smiles.

---

You mean if the raid gear was superior to the non raid gear? Well since that's the core of the issue.... yea.

I don't see what the problem is with having some cut-off to reward people for actually playing through end-game content. Why is it not ok to have a wall that you challenge people to get over? Why do we need to nerf Twintania again when the people who failed to clear that are just going to get stuck on SCOB anyway?

We get it, you have a job, you have responsibilities that force you to do other things which prevent you from clearing end game. People keep saying that this is content for 5-10% of the playerbase, you already have 90% of the game available to you by that logic so why not let that remaining percentage enjoy the other 10%?

It's not about being a snowflake, or whatever the term is these days, it's about having a reward for people who actually clear the content.