It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Mentors are not being banned for false reasons left and right even though plenty of people are offended over the icon existing. You are giving these harassers too much credit. In reality, they are just as invisible and powerless in game as they are in real life.

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Left and right? No , but they are getting actioned and harassed. Again, it's not a non existent problem, which is my point. No problem is better than a little problem.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Voluntarily associate? No. But imagine a group of people dead set on "punishing" those who aren't allowing them to "express themselves". Reports, kicks, etc etc.

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This. Earlier in the thread people suggested the idea of "all or nothing" as well, such that would be users of this feature would lose access to the glamour feature themselves(essentially penalization for a QoL feature that impacts nobody), now a marker suggestion to label would be "bigots and intolerant" people.

Seems like a whole lot of passive aggression for a feature that at the end of the day affects no one in any tangible or measurable manner, you can make the $$$ argument, or the Technical limitation argument, but if you want to equate the "Rights" of a human to a what is essentially Bits and HEX, that's a you problem.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Solve that problem when it becomes a problem?

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I'm not entirely sure that that could or would even be able to be solved. There currently is no way to selectively mute or disable the SFX or VFX of individual players or jobs, it's you, your party or others. I would love the ability to selectively mute and disable the effects of certain jobs though so that it would only be my own and the three healers's sounds and effects.

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

I'm not entirely sure that that could or would even be able to be solved. There currently is no way to selectively mute or disable the SFX or VFX of individual players or jobs, it's you, your party or others. I would love the ability to selectively mute and disable the effects of certain jobs though so that it would only be my own and the three healers's sounds and effects.

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Rather agree, Bahamut is kinda big, for example. It is not how it looks, it's just too big and can be a problem for players with a little screen. It sometimes forces me to move the camera an uncomfortable angle.

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Originally Posted by Klb600

This. Earlier in the thread people suggested the idea of "all or nothing" as well, such that would be users of this feature would lose access to the glamour feature themselves(essentially penalization for a QoL feature that impacts nobody), now a marker suggestion to label would be "bigots and intolerant" people.

Seems like a whole lot of passive aggression for a feature that at the end of the day affects no one in any tangible or measurable manner, you can make the $$$ argument, or the Technical limitation argument, but if you want to equate the "Rights" of a human to a what is essentially Bits and HEX, that's a you problem.

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To be fair.. this whole thread is nothing but passive aggression. I feel like everyone here were trolled massively because the TC hasn't came here once after they made this topic. It seriously feels like this was nothing but a massive trolled that got everyone in arms. And sadly it worked. And a maker wouldn't label you that. It'll just be an icon that lets other people know you have it on. And if they don't want to be effected the icon lets them know not to party with you. Whats wrong with that? Why do you get a feature and not the other side? Why be unfair? Whats wrong with an icon?

You act like people wouldn't already find ways to find out if you're using it or not anyway.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

Rather agree, Bahamut is kinda big, for example. It is not how it looks, it's just too big and can be a problem for players with a little screen. It sometimes forces me to move the camera an uncomfortable angle.

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/bahamutsize small

Solved. Though I'm not sure if it's a client side command or not.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Left and right? No , but they are getting actioned and harassed. Again, it's not a non existent problem, which is my point. No problem is better than a little problem.

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But the issue is there's no such thing as no problems in anything. There's always going to be issues, honestly the best way to have no problems is to not put it in. But that wouldn't work for you. But that IS the best way to have no problems in this topic.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

To be fair.. this whole thread is nothing but passive aggression. I feel like everyone here were trolled massively because the TC hasn't came here once after they made this topic. It seriously feels like this was nothing but a massive trolled that got everyone in arms. And sadly it worked. And a maker wouldn't label you that. It'll just be an icon that lets other people know you have it on. And if they don't want to be effected the icon lets them know not to party with you. Whats wrong with that? Why do you get a feature and not the other side? Why be unfair? Whats wrong with an icon?

You act like people wouldn't already find ways to find out if you're using it or not anyway.

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Check Topic creators History, they did infact continue to post afterwards, their last post is on this thread. For all we know their Sub might have lapse and hasn't subbed since(Cant post anymore)...

And even if this was an attempt at trolling, it doesn't change the fact that this is still a feature that people want.

What passive Aggression? All the other side stated is that they would like a QOL feature that enhances their enjoyment at no cost to the other party. All I have heard from the Oppositions side is, attempts to wear glamours to annoy those that want this feature, labeling others as Bigots/intolerant, and stating a label should be made to weed out these people.

If you want this marking, I personally don't mind and its not about "them finding out" I could care less if someone knew I used the feature, but its the principle of the matter: why a marking? Are you that Vain that cant just cant enter a dungeon with a player that isn't basking in your amazing glamours? These counter measures cant be seen in any other way then as coming from a place of vitriol, when as stated..............is a feature that is entirely client side and does not impact you in anyway.....

It just makes you look butt-hurt, kind of like that kid who takes his ball and goes home because he didn't get his way.

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Originally Posted by Klb600

Check Topic creators History, they did infact continue to post afterwards, their last post is on this thread. For all we know their Sub might have lapse and hasn't subbed since(Cant post anymore)...

And even if this was an attempt at trolling, it doesn't change the fact that this is still a feature that people want.

What passive Aggression? All the other side stated is that they would like a QOL feature that enhances their enjoyment at no cost to the other party. All I have heard from the Oppositions side is, attempts to wear glamours to annoy those that want this feature, labeling others as Bigots/intolerant, and stating a label should be made to weed out these people.

If you want this marking, I personally don't mind and its not about "them finding out" I could care less if someone knew I used the feature, but its the principle of the matter: why a marking? Are you that Vain that cant just cant enter a dungeon with a player that isn't basking in your amazing glamours? These counter measures cant be seen in any other way then as coming from a place of vitriol, when as stated..............is a feature that is entirely client side and does not impact you in anyway.....

It just makes you look butt-hurt, kind of like that kid who takes his ball and goes home because he didn't get his way.

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And it doesn't make you look butt hurt to ask for something to hide something as simple as some glams? It really does go both ways. And if it didn't impact people we wouldn't have over 200 pages of people going back and forth. Fact is just as some people want it, there are just as many people who don't want it. That's all I'm saying. Instead of insults noone has actually provided a reason as to why an icon is a bad idea? If you can have a choice to hide them, then the other side should have a choice to not party with you either. I don't care cause this would never see the light of day anyway. BUT I like being fair.

I'm not just gonna say one side is wrong cause honestly there is no right or wrong here. Just two sides who dont want to see the other side at all. And that goes for BOTH ends.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

And it doesn't make you look butt hurt to ask for something to hide something as simple as some glams?

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Context. The difference is I will continue to play the game whether this feature is implemented or not. And this includes partying with the large green metallic frog, because its an optional feature.

If you need a countermeasure to avoid playing with people in all of its entirety over a feature that only enhances someone else's playing experience at no cost to yourself then yes that makes you look very butt-hurt.

"And if it didn't impact people we wouldn't have over 200 pages of people going back and forth."

This only honestly further proves the hypocrisy of this community, they go on about "more options is a good thing." Clearly only when it suites you(And I am not specifically addressing you just to be clear.)

But the Crux of the matter is I acknowledge that a feature like this is slim because of various reasoning, but the the people going on about the "Philosophical" counter argument is just not sound reasoning as to why not.

Seeing this thread and the posts makes me ponder. If you are someone who is easily distracted by other peoples glam's then it begs the question. When you die in a dungeon or raid, how many of you are dying cause you were busy gazing at the bikini wearing tank and not the death marker over your head. :D

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Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina

I'm not entirely sure that that could or would even be able to be solved. There currently is no way to selectively mute or disable the SFX or VFX of individual players or jobs, it's you, your party or others. I would love the ability to selectively mute and disable the effects of certain jobs though so that it would only be my own and the three healers's sounds and effects.

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Sure, so ask for it if you want it. I don't have a problem with it. Remember that people protested the ability to silence "performance" when we got it , saying it was defeating the whole purpose of the skill. Like I said though, lets start with the problem we HAVE and not the theoretical unsubstantiated maybe future problem.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

To be fair.. this whole thread is nothing but passive aggression. I feel like everyone here were trolled massively because the TC hasn't came here once after they made this topic. It seriously feels like this was nothing but a massive trolled that got everyone in arms. And sadly it worked. And a maker wouldn't label you that. It'll just be an icon that lets other people know you have it on. And if they don't want to be effected the icon lets them know not to party with you. Whats wrong with that? Why do you get a feature and not the other side? Why be unfair? Whats wrong with an icon?

You act like people wouldn't already find ways to find out if you're using it or not anyway.

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The same way that someone cannot be exposed for using say a parser, people wouldn't be able to find out that you're not seeing their particular glamour. Unless that person SAYS something specific it'd be near impossible. Adding another step of difficulty to the witch hunting would quash quite a bit of it.

We've already told you whats wrong with an icon. It would be a scarlet letter to those who would discriminate unfairly.
If anything , and I think this is a bad idea as well, I would suggest an option to avoid people who use the feature on Duty Roulettes.
And again, this whole "problem" stems from people who cannot even stand the idea that someone might not see them exactly as they've intended. The idea, not the reality just the idea. SE

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

But the issue is there's no such thing as no problems in anything. There's always going to be issues, honestly the best way to have no problems is to not put it in. But that wouldn't work for you. But that IS the best way to have no problems in this topic.

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We already have a problem in this topic, people want this feature. it solves a problem they HAVE. It's not a particularly pressing problem, but it's a definite want and problem of at least part of the userbase.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Sure, so ask for it if you want it. I don't have a problem with it. Remember that people protested the ability to silence "performance" when we got it , saying it was defeating the whole purpose of the skill. Like I said though, lets start with the problem we HAVE and not the theoretical unsubstantiated maybe future problem.





The same way that someone cannot be exposed for using say a parser, people wouldn't be able to find out that you're not seeing their particular glamour. Unless that person SAYS something specific it'd be near impossible. Adding another step of difficulty to the witch hunting would quash quite a bit of it.

We've already told you whats wrong with an icon. It would be a scarlet letter to those who would discriminate unfairly.
If anything , and I think this is a bad idea as well, I would suggest an option to avoid people who use the feature on Duty Roulettes.
And again, this whole "problem" stems from people who cannot even stand the idea that someone might not see them exactly as they've intended. The idea, not the reality just the idea. SE





We already have a problem in this topic, people want this feature. it solves a problem they HAVE. It's not a particularly pressing problem, but it's a definite want and problem of at least part of the userbase.

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But isn't that a nonissue? People aren't going around shamming people with mentor status. You're going to always have jerks. Not having an icon isn't going to stop people from being jerks. Just look to SE changing the TOS and rules for a bit of that. I don't see the issue of an icon. As all it'll do is tell those people who don't want to be effective to not party with you. We have report systems for people who push it past the issues. Honestly ( and I'm not saying it is this ) but it really feels like people just want this issue to spite the people that don't so much as to not even wanting an icon so those people can choose too. I just want everyone to have options, not just one side.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

But isn't that a nonissue? People aren't going around shamming people with mentor status.

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You'd be surprised.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

You're going to always have jerks. Not having an icon isn't going to stop people from being jerks. Just look to SE changing the TOS and rules for a bit of that. I don't see the issue of an icon. As all it'll do is tell those people who don't want to be effective to not party with you. We have report systems for people who push it past the issues. Honestly ( and I'm not saying it is this ) but it really feels like people just want this issue to spite the people that don't so much as to not even wanting an icon so those people can choose too. I just want everyone to have options, not just one side.

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apparently you don't, because one side currently has all the options and one does not.

As I have mentioned before more QoL options that add players to control their own experience is not a bad thing. Sure people will say they do not want others to view them in clothing they did not approve of, but way I see it is more so akin to someone using their imagination to alter how they view the world or a person. I do it all the time personally outside having a means to physically do that in a game does not seem all that different to me. Sure one could argue about screen shots and streaming but those are outliers and the population is large enough that the chances of running into such an encounter probably would be extremely rare.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You'd be surprised.


apparently you don't, because one side currently has all the options and one does not.

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People don't mass report on mentors, they don't do this. So no, they won't do this with you getting an icon. If you're so scared of people doing this then clearly we shouldn't get this anyway since people will instantly target everyone. When they don't even do this to mentors or anyone else on anything else. Both sides should have options to play with who they want to play with. And an icon is the easiest way for that to happen. There's nothing wrong with having people who don't agree with this being able to see your icon and not party with you. Just like there's nothing wrong with you not wanting to party with pig suits or whatever you don't want to see. Noone has a choice now because the option doesn't exist. If it went your way only you would get that choice. I say both should have the choice.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

People don't mass report on mentors, they don't do this. So no, they won't do this with you getting an icon.

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Just because it hasn't happened to YOU.. doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

If you're so scared of people doing this then clearly we shouldn't get this anyway since people will instantly target everyone.

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The only reason this would be a problem is if you mark someone using an OPTION. it'd be like flagging someone if they use the /bahamutsize small toggle.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

When they don't even do this to mentors or anyone else on anything else. Both sides should have options to play with who they want to play with. And an icon is the easiest way for that to happen.

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Just because it's the easiest doesn't mean it's the best idea.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

There's nothing wrong with having people who don't agree with this being able to see your icon and not party with you. Just like there's nothing wrong with you not wanting to party with pig suits or whatever you don't want to see.

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There are several things wrong with it that I keep pointing out and you seem to keep putting your fingers in your ears and insisting don't exist.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

Noone has a choice now because the option doesn't exist. If it went your way only you would get that choice. I say both should have the choice.

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Right now people who want to have crazy/flashy glamours have all the options to use them, people who don't wish to have those in their game.. or at least not see them have no choices besides NOT being in places people who are using them are.

This isn't even close to equal. You are operating from the premise that what we have right now is equitable and fair, and it is not.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

Both sides should have options to play with who they want to play with. And an icon is the easiest way for that to happen. There's nothing wrong with having people who don't agree with this being able to see your icon and not party with you. Just like there's nothing wrong with you not wanting to party with pig suits or whatever you don't want to see..

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And when did anyone state this? You are intentionally misconstruing the argument. At no point did anyone say they are not willing to party with someone in a pig suit, me wanting a feature that enhances my experience client side exclusively and me stating that I will not party with anyone in a pig suite or I will leave a dungeon if someone is in a pig suite are two completely different things. Most people for this feature are willing to party with the silly glamour's either way(as they have in the past), its just an option.

Implicitly or explicitly, What you want is a form of Penalization, in order to detract would be users of the feature, Which Segway's into my next point.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

I just want everyone to have options, not just one side.

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They already have their option, its called Glamour.....

You clearly don't understand how to be impartial, when you state the best alternative being "it would be best to not include the feature at all" to a QOL feature that has no bearing on your client side game, Your bias has already shown. Clearly you don't want the feature, and that is fine, I don't begrudge you for this. But quite playing the neutral game when you have been anything but.

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Originally Posted by Klb600

And when did anyone state this? You are intentionally misconstruing the argument. At no point did anyone say they are not willing to party with someone in a pig suit, me wanting a feature that enhances my experience client side exclusively and me stating that I will not party with anyone in a pig suite or I will leave a dungeon if someone is in a pig suite are two completely different things. Most people for this feature are willing to party with the silly glamour's either way(as they have in the past), its just an option.

Implicitly or explicitly, What you want is a form of Penalization, in order to detract would be users of the feature, Which Segway's into my next point.



They already have their option, its called Glamour.....

You clearly don't understand how to be impartial, when you state the best alternative being "it would be best to not include the feature at all" to a QOL feature that has no bearing on your client side game, Your bias has already shown. Clearly you don't want the feature, and that is fine, I don't begrudge you for this. But quite playing the neutral game when you have been anything but.

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I said the the best reason is to not have it is because people think it'll instantly cause problems when things like mentors having the crown isn't making people go instantly insane at once. That's the context you're not using. I don't care about the option because it's not going to happen. Thats where my opinion lies. Where my bias lies is when you get one side acting like they don't have options when we all have the options to turn the camera, leave, not care, party with people who don't make whatever go nuts because we like or dislike said glamours. Everyone can do this. And it doesn't matter what side you're on. People leave dungeons for any and all reasons. You're not stuck if you don't like something. You can leave, or not pay it any attention. That is on you. So saying people with glamours have control of your screen is silly. If I'm wrong for that opinion sorry, but what other people do doesn't matter to me or control me so much that I need to shut it or them out for my enjoyment. And if it did I have options like I just mentioned. You have those same options. We all have those options. Why ask SE for something we have control of.

Hell you can make PF for people to not join you with silly glams. People do it with jobs, RP, whatever already anyway. That's all I'm saying when I say we all have those options.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

/bahamutsize small
Solved. Though I'm not sure if it's a client side command or not.

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I'm not playing invoc but I will test if it works.

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I don't care about the option because it's not going to happen.

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.... Not the point, most already conceded that the likelihood of this feature happening is very slim...

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

t what other people do doesn't matter to me or control me so much that I need to shut it or them out for my enjoyment. And if it did I have options like I just mentioned. You have those same options. We all have those options. Why ask SE for something we have control of.

Hell you can make PF for people to not join you with silly glams. People do it with jobs, RP, whatever already anyway. That's all I'm saying when I say we all have those options.

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Then why argue against it? Thanks for confirming the bias....

Yes all those options exist and this would be another harmless option. That's the beauty of options, they are mutable, you can stack one on top of another, hell you even conceded that what people do does not matter to you. Ok then, so why worry about a client side feature that has no bearing on you?

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Hell you can make PF for people to not join you with silly glams. People do it with jobs, RP, whatever already anyway. That's all I'm saying when I say we all have those options.

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......Again not the point or argument...

At this point, I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse..

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Originally Posted by Klb600

.... Not the point, most already conceded that the likelihood of this feature happening is very slim...



Then why argue against it? Thanks for confirming the bias....

Yes all those options exist and this would be another harmless option. That's the beauty of options, they are mutable, you can stack one on top of another, hell you even conceded that what people do does not matter to you. Ok then, so why worry about a client side feature that has no bearing on you?



......Again not the point or argument...

At this point, I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse..

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Because when I mentioned a maybe fix for this maybe issue people go all " But then I'll get shamed" And I'm saying you won't. People don't do that to anything else and for the tiny morons that do you report them. And that was my point, when you say you don't have options I'm telling you you do. Making PFs and everything else I mentioned. And again like I said from the beginning it goes both ways. Everything you're saying I'm doing you and others are doing also. I think the icon is the best way for both sides to be happy.

And actually.. why isn't that not the point? What're you still fighting for it for if we both agree this isn't happening? See what I mean? It does go both ways.

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icon is the best way for both sides to be happy.

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That's called a ramification...

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

It does go both ways.

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It really doesn't...

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And actually.. why isn't that not the point? What're you still fighting for it for if we both agree this isn't happening? See what I mean? It does go both ways

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Its the principle of the matter, Just because something has a slim chance of not happening doesn't mean its not worth simply asking for or arguing why(people do it on forums all the time, its one of the main purposes of a forum, discussion.)....

Its not the point because I am not advocating for segregation from glamour people, your proposition is just that...

Just because an Option exist doesn't mean they're the best. That's what Quality of life is for..Plenty of QoL already exist, this would just be another. This is a client side features for those who want to enhance their playing experience without hampering my experience or the oppositions. I am trying to meet them halfway. But clearly people don't want to...

This kind of feature is not important for me. Anyway, the really but really weird thing is...

Why one earth some here feel entitled to force people to see your glamour if they don't like it?
You can glamour the way you want for yourself for your own satisfaction as it appears on your screen but if someone prefer to see the AF by default, why does it bother you that much?

The game has not to be way the life goes, it is all the interesting part in a virtual world and client side features : you can do whatever you please for yourself without arming anyone (and as soon as it doesn't arm anyone).

If you imagine you will change people or their tastes that way, you are totally wrong, most likely you will make them angry. Is that your purpose? If so, there nothing noble and it doesn't make you a tolerant or comprehensive people, it just ends to be some kind of useless and unproductive militancy (with the opposite result than the supposed purpose).

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

This kind of feature is not important for me. Anyway, the really but really weird thing is...

Why one earth some here feel entitled to force people to see your glamour if they don't like it?
You can glamour the way you want for yourself for your own satisfaction as it appears on your screen but if someone prefer to see the AF by default, why does it bother you that much?

The game has not to be way the life goes, it is all the interesting part in a virtual world and client side features : you can do whatever you please for yourself without arming anyone (and as soon as it doesn't arm anyone).

If you imagine you will change people or their tastes that way, you are totally wrong, most likely you will make them angry. Is that your purpose? If so, there nothing noble and it doesn't make you a tolerant or comprehensive people, it just ends to be some kind of useless and unproductive militancy (with the opposite result than the supposed purpose).

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So you paying everyone's sub now to tell them what they should put on their character? That's some deep pockets. Noone should be trying to change anyone tastes. That's not what I'm saying. I hope people aren't trying to change tastes cause that's a fools game. I'm asking for an icon if anything.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

So you paying everyone's sub now to tell them what they should put on their character? That's some deep pockets. Noone should be trying to change anyone tastes. That's not what I'm saying. I hope people aren't trying to change tastes cause that's a fools game. I'm asking for an icon if anything.

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You can wear whatever you want for yourself on your computer. You glamour for yourself.

And If there is something among all that has not to be it is the icon. It doesn't make sense. We talk about a client-side feature.

You know, there is something you don't realize : how it's look on your computer or TVscreen if you are on PS4 is not the necessary the same on others screens. Someone who play with "warm" colours will not have the same experience than someone who play with "real" colours. Depending of your graphic card, it can look as it was in 2010 or looks almost photorealist if someone is using mods.

I do play in "real" colours since I have use of a fair colours balance for graphics creations (and photography) but many people use "warm" colours instead.

EDIT : Fixed the english way, since I like to tease ;o)

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

You can wear whatever you want for yourself on your computer. You glamour for yourself.

And If there is something among all that has not to be it is the icon. It doesn't make sense. We talk about a client-side feature.

You know, there is something you don't realize : how it's look on your computer or TVscreen if you are on PS4 is not the necessary the same on others screens. Someone who play with "warm" colours will not have the same experience than someone who play with "real" colours. Depending of your graphic card, it can look as it was in 2010 or looks almost photorealist if someone is using mods.

I do play in "real" colours since I have use of a fair colour balance for graphics creation but many people use "warm" colors instead.

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Why is there a "u" in your colors? D: That is more important I think then what someone is wearing. and yes.. I'm literally asking this cause I'm confused by this.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

This kind of feature is not important for me. Anyway, the really but really weird thing is...

Why one earth some here feel entitled to force people to see your glamour if they don't like it?
You can glamour the way you want for yourself for your own satisfaction as it appears on your screen but if someone prefer to see the AF by default, why does it bother you that much?

The game has not to be way the life goes, it is all the interesting part in a virtual world and client side features : you can do whatever you please for yourself without arming anyone (and as soon as it doesn't arm anyone).

If you imagine you will change people or their tastes that way, you are totally wrong, most likely you will make them angry. Is that your purpose? If so, there nothing noble and it doesn't make you a tolerant or comprehensive people, it just ends to be some kind of useless and unproductive militancy (with the opposite result than the supposed purpose).

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I'm personally uhappy enough with knowing that there are people with "no ears miqo'te" and clothes changing mods and such running around the map. Not to the point of unsubbing, but enough for being against the feature that is supposed to make something similar an officially allowed attitude. Yes, I do glamour my character for myself. But it's a social game, and while my character is designed a certain way to appeal to myself, it's also how I want it to be presented to others, not any other way.

Also let's get real: the chance that it would be implemented as "AF gear shown" is next to 0, it would be either racial gear or just turned off glamour entirely because it's easier to support.

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

Why is there a "u" in your colors? D:

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Because Europe and British standards, I would assume. At least that's how this word was teached to me in my school, when I was a student, and we had "British" English there (Russia).

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Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

Why is there a "u" in your colors? D: That is more important I think then what someone is wearing. and yes.. I'm literally asking this cause I'm confused by this.

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Mistype. English is not my mothertongue ^_^

I guess I should do some dictation :p

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Because Europe and British standards, I would assume. At least that's how this word was teached to me in my school, when I was a student, and we had "British" English there (Russia).

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This too. ^_^

We learn english way of writing. I mixed american and english. :p

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Originally Posted by Halivel

I'm personally uhappy enough with knowing that there are people with "no ears miqo'te" and clothes changing mods and such running around the map. Not to the point of unsubbing, but enough for being against the feature that is supposed to make something similar an officially allowed attitude. Yes, I do glamour my character for myself. But it's a social game, and while my character is designed a certain way to appeal to myself, it's also how I want it to be presented to others, not any other way.

Also let's get real: the chance that it would be implemented as "AF gear shown" is next to 0, it would be either racial gear or just turned off glamour entirely because it's easier to support.

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I know. Most likely. And that's not an important feature for me but the fact is the technics makes it doesn't always look on others screens the way we imagine.


EDIT : This is somehow a mistype since I mixed the two ways of writing it. Fixed it.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

Mistype. English is not my mothertongue ^_^

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It's not a mistype. Just not US standard.

Thing is, it's not, or should not, be as important to you, to restrain people from showing who they are, what they identify as, than censoring them. If you see ('cause thats' s the problem, we all know it...) male wearing female types of glams, either provocative or subtle, you can just shrug it off. You don't have to care. You choose to care.

But if someone that had to hide itself for years or decades wants, needs to show that other side of them, then it's not a choice, it can be very important for their mental health. And yes, surely you can go "That's a mental disorder". Maybe, but neither those people nor me care. If they need the game as a safe space, why would you go out of your way to take that away from them?

That's the one question I'm wondering about...

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

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Fair enough. I can only reply, things are not black or white. The world is more or less grey or... well, with more or less bright/dull colors.

And it is valid for both side. Someone "born straight" and someone "hesitant" will always hardly understand other's feelings. It unfortunatly can't be helped. It is not only social, it is instinct. Since my young age, as far as I can remember, I've always loved feminine and girly women and my family has nothing to do with that. It's me, my feelings, my tastes. I'm absolutly straitght man IRL and I can play a girly miqo'te... because it's not me, just, some... eyecandy. Same way, I'm absolutly unable to put myself in the shoes of a gay, a intransition or whatever... I don't judge or grudge against them. I don't know and can't know.

As I hardly can understand religious jugdments and their moral matters about clothes.

What I know however, what I've heard and feel about non controversial cases is this : tastes are instincts, for an important part.
I don't like tatoos, I don't feel the need for that and I would never have one.
I don't like hawaiian shirts I far prefer tartans.
When you hear this :
_Look at this dress with big flowers, it's soo grands'ma.
_I love it.
_I could never wear that.

It's like the vibe of a character in theatre. You can feel if it matches or not. And not all people will have the same feeling. I do understand bikers look because I used to love it when I was a child. But now, as an adult, I just don't have this vibe. It would look weird on me and... it's not me, anyway. I like somehow oldfashioned roadsters bikes and would not ride a Chopper Harley but probably could a Ultra Glide. And young I would have been interested in a Hayabusa, I'm not anymore.

If people wish to hide others glamours, as for the ones who want to show specific and personalized glamours, they are both and equaly legitimate.

Considering the problem some people got - a ka male characters wearing female clothing - I can only respond with:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...wu5yBUu8HqpBhk

Good traps are adorable and you can't change my mind.

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

Considering the problem some people got - a ka male characters wearing female clothing - I can only respond with:

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...wu5yBUu8HqpBhk

Good traps are adorable and you can't change my mind.

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A trap for pedophiles perhaps.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

If people wish to hide others glamours, as for the ones who want to show specific and personalized glamours, they are both and equaly legitimate.

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I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I've read everything you wrote, and I understand that you're someone tolerant and everything. But what you don't seem to grasp (and that I didn't grasp, either, before I was told repeatedly about it, because it is indeed not intuitive, is that no, it's not equally legitimate.

Once again, you can choose not to care about the behaviour of one individual among many. But that same individual cannot not care about the behaviour of the whole society about them. Most people that suffer from gender dysphoria also suffer from depression, and when you're depressive, things ARE black and white. To them, having the option "not show other people's glamour" equals telling them "you don't exist, or people can just live their lives without ever noticing you". And by that, I don't mean "notice" as in "Ah, take care of me, I'm very special". They just want people to look at them, and shrug as if it's not important. The point is almost never to have people looking at them, and telling them they are wonderful and everything (of course there are egoistic people among those communities, but that's not my point). The point is that they want people to just accept them.

So yeah, I get where you're coming from. Younger, I was goth, and when I see younger people dressing as goths, I sometimes find it funny, or a bit ridiculous. But that doesn't mean I can tell them, or ignore them. Maybe it's just something they go through, as I did, and it will pass, but maybe that's what they identify as, that's how they will live their lives. You never know. So, as you don't know, you should let them have their space, but in the same time, aknowledge them for what they are : just people going through their lives and wanting to be treated as everyone else.


Also yeah...

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...wu5yBUu8HqpBhk

Good traps are adorable and you can't change my mind.

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Please don't compare a crime with freedom of expression.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

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I get your point. But... it's a feature supposed to be use freely at home. We don't ask them to hide in the game. Would use this feature only those who are really bothered, at home, on their own computer and nobody would know.

And, you keep thinking it only applies for... gender matters in mind. But aethetics matters too.

You know, when I'm listening people saying that people with weird stuff break their immersion, I can't get ride of the idea to tease them simply saying :
_But mate, it is a fantasy MMO, your ennemy can actually looks like... some kind of clown. Not an actual beast, not an actual daemon, no. Just a ...bloody mundane clown.
Since it is not a medieval MMO.

I understand you have LGBTQ in mind but... if someone wants to notice and react, he will do and if the person chose to ignore them, he will do too... what is the difference with a feature that is supposed to work at home and be activated willingly, client-side? In the end, the result is the same. Ignore or hide, in fine, there's... no communication, no exchange, no consideration, no warmth... nothing.

Somehow, to ignore someone sounds to me as maybe even worst than to hide some glamour.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

This kind of feature is not important for me. Anyway, the really but really weird thing is...

Why one earth some here feel entitled to force people to see your glamour if they don't like it?
You can glamour the way you want for yourself for your own satisfaction as it appears on your screen but if someone prefer to see the AF by default, why does it bother you that much?

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Short answer: because I don't want my character automatically put in the miniskirts that SE decided are standard female AF gear for most of the jobs I play. Whether it happens on my screen or not.

I pick outfits with longer skirts or pants. I don't want that changed back into the outfit I specifically don't want to wear, because someone doesn't like an entirely different group of people's outfits.

And no, targeted turning-off of certain outfits is not the solution. Less likely for me to be personally affected, more theoretical chance for it to be abused in another context.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Less likely for me to be personally affected, more theoretical chance for it to be abused in another context.

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Pardon?

I'm not the last to consider the world and people can be creepy but... I can't get ride from the idea it goes a bit too far to think that way. You're not your character and your character is not you and... well... it's just a 3D model running virtualy in an alternate world and who as no actual feelings or whatever since it is just a program and a virtual story...

But never mind. Definitely, I suppose I will never be good at RP.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Thing is, it's not, or should not, be as important to you, to restrain people from showing who they are, what they identify as, than censoring them. If you see ('cause thats' s the problem, we all know it...) male wearing female types of glams, either provocative or subtle, you can just shrug it off. You don't have to care. You choose to care.

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And if we get an option to turn it off they don't have to care.. they would choose to care. Nobody is being RESTRAINED. The modification is on the client, and on the client only. For all intents and purposes the other users would have no indication of any use.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

But if someone that had to hide itself for years or decades wants, needs to show that other side of them, then it's not a choice, it can be very important for their mental health. And yes, surely you can go "That's a mental disorder". Maybe, but neither those people nor me care. If they need the game as a safe space, why would you go out of your way to take that away from them?

That's the one question I'm wondering about...

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It's already been taken away. Modding exists and although it is against TOS, is widely used. Thus the expectation that EVERYONE see's them as they wish is already shattered.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Short answer: because I don't want my character automatically put in the miniskirts that SE decided are standard female AF gear for most of the jobs I play. Whether it happens on my screen or not.

I pick outfits with longer skirts or pants. I don't want that changed back into the outfit I specifically don't want to wear, because someone doesn't like an entirely different group of people's outfits.

And no, targeted turning-off of certain outfits is not the solution. Less likely for me to be personally affected, more theoretical chance for it to be abused in another context.

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And again.. this could be accounted for or even completely circumvented by changing your character model into a "generic", masking your name into initials, or just having some prudish "standard" outfit.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

Pardon?

I'm not the last to consider the world and people can be creepy but... I can't get ride from the idea it goes a bit too far to think that way. You're not your character and your character is not you and... well... it's just a 3D model running virtualy in an alternate world and who as no actual feelings or whatever since it is just a program and a virtual story...

But never mind. Definitely, I suppose I will never be good at RP.

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It doesn't have anything to do with RP. The basic rule in RP is that your character is not you, everything that happens to it is just as personal as something you'd read in a novel. I do RP, and some of Ositha's enemies are my best friend IRL. But when I play Out of character, my character is more "me".

I don't project myself in any game I play, but since MMORPGs are basically a social network with some gameplay added on it, once you've farmed and done everything you'd want to do, yeah, my interactions with other people IG are as real as my interactions with other people. Precisely because neither me nor them RPs in these moments. When you play a female character and you get sexually harassed by people, it's not your character that is being harassed, but you.

My character does not look like me, but I don't want people to see her in extra-short dresses or skirt. Because that character represents me in that social network that FFXIV is.

That's a paradigm that you may not agree with, but that's how many people play that game, so yes, it is important to preserve freedom of expression in there.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

And again.. this could be accounted for or even completely circumvented by changing your character model into a "generic", masking your name into initials, or just having some prudish "standard" outfit.

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And after that, we could all just make every map but dungeons character exclusive, so you can't see anyone outside dungeons.

Remember that MMOs are social by definition, and should be preserved that way...