Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

That's where having an optional easy setting can be handy.

---

I like this idea, give me a God Mode toggle for the game and you can make everything as hard as you like, I'll sit there with my ultimate shinies and titles without straining a finger while everyone else can huff and puff their way to the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quor

If the "In From the Cold" nerfs taught us anything, it's that the vast majority of the player base seems incapable of understanding context clues and is completely helpless without something akin to a bright neon arrow pointing them to exactly where they need to go.

It is my fervent hope that SE understands that said casual players will simply abandon the game when it becomes too boring for them, which it will in record time due to how absolutely braindead most content has become. SE will also lose the more dedicated fan base that was the source of this games revival and success in the process. SE will once again make the corporate mistake of prioritizing short-term profits over long-term sustained growth. I'm reminded of a line from the intro cutscene in Secret of Mana; time flows like a river, and history repeats. It seems as if the hubris of SE may once again be on the rise, with dedicated fans and new players alike, who both enjoy a challenge, being left behind in favor of the FotM fly-by-night casual crowd who will largely tap out after a handful of months.

---

It's because games in general have been made to hold ppl's hands and walk them through everything as if they're a 2yr old child. You see it in countless titles from multiple genres. One of the most common things I saw from these "gamers" giving Elden Ring negative reviews is "I don't know what I'm supposed to do or where to go because the game doesn't auto mark the quest objectives on the map and HUD for me". The game does however tell you where to go for side quests and provide a rough guide for main story direction if ppl actually listen or read the NPC dialogue instead of mashing the button as fast as possible to skip it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

It's because games in general have been made to hold ppl's hands and walk them through everything as if they're a 2yr old child. You see it in countless titles from multiple genres. One of the most common things I saw from these "gamers" giving Elden Ring negative reviews is "I don't know what I'm supposed to do or where to go because the game doesn't auto mark the quest objectives on the map and HUD for me". The game does however tell you where to go for side quests and provide a rough guide for main story direction if ppl actually listen or read the NPC dialogue instead of mashing the button as fast as possible to skip it...

---

I really wonder how many people beat Elden Ring without cheesing or even glitching stuff too lol.
The game has such an insane level of completely imbalanced and op stuff that turns the game into a complete joke.

But if you actually try and play it '' legit '' and actually fight the bosses for real then you realize how poorly designed most of them are.
I loved the game and still do, but it does feel like it was designed for people to cheese which the previous games didn't feel like.
I think the game wouldn't have been as well-received without the imbalance and op cheese which honestly is part of the poor design too it feels like it wasn't properly tested but it also makes it easier for players that aren't every good.
Does it make it more popular for mainstream audiences?
Yes.
Does it make the game worse in terms of design?
Yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

The problem is that it all boils down to: Too Easy or Too Hard

There is no in between. Dungeons are so braindead that players don't even need to do the bare minimum to get through it, it gets boring very quickly. Suggesting they should up the difficulty just a little bit (Little Bit being the keyword) won't kill anybody, the skill ceiling is so low it is practically underground. Endwalkers Extremes weren't even that difficult and EX3 was a huge disappointment. Suggesting anything related to anything that will make people have to use their braincells even by a little bit leads to getting dogpiled and having your suggestion twisted and minced to fit their argument to the point that it feels like they are coiling in a fetal position and shouting: "Stopping making everything so difficult, you toxic elitist!".

Playing as a Tank or Healer is so ridiculously boring because everything is so easy that people actually have to come up with their own kind of challenge and you don't get rewarded for it, if people need to artificially make something challenging then there is definitely a problem.

---

The funny thing is..
Im here, spending 100+ hours a week playing eureka content which is neither super easy or super difficult.
Its just.. grinding.. and im happy?

The content rewards you with things that make that content more fun.

More content needs to be like Eureka.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

I'd go with this *IF* they madfe some improvements to the camera to actually make a lot of that stuff visible. some of these bosses are getting so big they cant even fit on your screen at maximum zoom so seeing that indicator above there head is a real ball ache. and with more and more visual indicators for mechanics being way off over there 100 miles outside the arena. even if your zoomed out to maximum distace you still cant see stuff without constant camera gymnastics. can be enough to make you dizzy the amount you have to spin the camera sonetimes.

---

I find often that the camera is also an issue which is why I prefer being a ranged damage dealer that way I can stand all the way back and see more of the arena. Patterns start being noticeable much sooner this way as well. I wish we could zoom further out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

The content rewards you with things that make that content more fun.

More content needs to be like [that].

---

Agreed. And while content generally shouldn't have so steep of progression requirements to overly/arbitrarily split up the playerbase (making it so those who liked the content from day 1 would waste their time if they play with those who stumbled upon it in day 100 --or worse, would be utterly unable to, such as by ruining the others' gains or experience-- it'd be nice to have more out there that's worth diving deeper into.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quor

If the "In From the Cold" nerfs taught us anything, it's that the vast majority of the player base seems incapable of understanding context clues and is completely helpless without something akin to a bright neon arrow pointing them to exactly where they need to go.

---

Didn't they only nerf the Very Easy difficulty?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

More content needs to be like Eureka.

---

Eureka like Bozja is pretty unfriendly if you can't commit for longer play times. It locks you out of anything else and is very inefficient when done solo and punishes you for each ko.

Fates are more friendly grind content, they can be done even if you don't have a lot of time and you can queue for other content at the same time, there's less pressure to join a group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazelus

Wasn't the wandering Minstrel suppose to imagine the fight if Meteion have found ONE more dead civilization so why do we have less phase ? Shinryu and Hades had special phase for ex, that's just disappointing...

---

and i personally disagree, the Minstrel imagined what woudl happen if the Endsinger found a few more stars of despair, or even a FEW more souls.
He imagined, specificaly, that the darkness may have been so deep that even the Light of the scions could do naught but hold it at bay at most, but not pierce it,

Which is EXACTLY what happens. The Music itself is ALSO part of it, we dont get "with hearts alligned" in EX because the prayers of the scions didnt work outside of preventing our imidiate doom.
endsinger EX is PHASE 2!!!!! OF normal, the arena itself shows it, the light already pushes the dark back in the background.
but its Phase 2 without the Super buff.


And i personally disagree that the Planets are bullshit or annoying, you have ampel time to react to them, Only the 2 pairs of 2 sets of planets before second towers can be tricky if you are particularly unlucky(blue into red is the worst combo, change my mind)
HECK its LEGIT 2 things to consider "is it blue? yes? go to where slower is in a quarter rotation and get pushed back" and "is it red? yes, where will slow be in a quarter rotation, is it the back half? go front of boss, is it front half? go to the back of the arena" if you want to play it safe, if you dont want to play it safe? you have HALF THE ARENAS EDGE AS SAFETY(if not more) if you want to optimize for uptime blue dosnt change and red?.
"What Intercard does red impact? NW, go East at Endsingers hitbox circle, SW Go east, NE? Go West, SE? go West" so even THEN its just "does it impact west or east, go opposite"
Double red planets? dodge first, then Rotate 90° towards the first impact(so if it impacted SW first and NE Second, you start East, and then rotate 90° and end up in endsingers face..)

and Blue is super generous you can be at max melee range and not die off if you aim correctly, And you can 100% use it to prepoition yourself for double red as well

What are you talking about ? If anything casuals like me are the one asking for slightly harder low tier content, i mean at that point most dungeons are sleep inducing due to over forgiving mechanics and jobs gameplay that are less and less engaging.

To rephrase it : difficulty from low tier activities come from your ability to keep your eyes open after a certain amount of time and it's kind of sad.

I'm not a try harder and don't like frustration but at that point that's just too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZeraSkiratea

and i personally disagree, the Minstrel imagined what woudl happen if the Endsinger found a few more stars of despair, or even a FEW more souls.
He imagined, specificaly, that the darkness may have been so deep that even the Light of the scions could do naught but hold it at bay at most, but not pierce it,

Which is EXACTLY what happens. The Music itself is ALSO part of it, we dont get "with hearts alligned" in EX because the prayers of the scions didnt work outside of preventing our imidiate doom.
endsinger EX is PHASE 2!!!!! OF normal, the arena itself shows it, the light already pushes the dark back in the background.
but its Phase 2 without the Super buff.


And i personally disagree that the Planets are bullshit or annoying, you have ampel time to react to them, Only the 2 pairs of 2 sets of planets before second towers can be tricky if you are particularly unlucky(blue into red is the worst combo, change my mind)
HECK its LEGIT 2 things to consider "is it blue? yes? go to where slower is in a quarter rotation and get pushed back" and "is it red? yes, where will slow be in a quarter rotation, is it the back half? go front of boss, is it front half? go to the back of the arena" if you want to play it safe, if you dont want to play it safe? you have HALF THE ARENAS EDGE AS SAFETY(if not more) if you want to optimize for uptime blue dosnt change and red?.
"What Intercard does red impact? NW, go East at Endsingers hitbox circle, SW Go east, NE? Go West, SE? go West" so even THEN its just "does it impact west or east, go opposite"
Double red planets? dodge first, then Rotate 90° towards the first impact(so if it impacted SW first and NE Second, you start East, and then rotate 90° and end up in endsingers face..)

and Blue is super generous you can be at max melee range and not die off if you aim correctly, And you can 100% use it to prepoition yourself for double red as well

---

The phase 1 musics was already a mistake in normal, it completely got me out of the moments, it's the final boss, it deserved a unique musics for hitself, I can't listen to this musics anymore, it's presents in TOO MUCH fights... So if we can't had "with hearts aligned" we should have another unique musics for the fight, with a special phase to make the EX fight memorable and not a downgrade from the normal one... (Not on mechanics only in vibe) Instead of the scions reaching us, the fight should have showed our characters breaking his limit even more to beat meteion...

Never said planets are hards, I said there's annoying. I never get hit by any cause I know where to stand to avoid it and yeah you have plenty of time to move and I never lose uptime on the blue either... It's just not really an interesting mechs but an annoying one, that need a OS to justify players doing it because we all know, we wouldn't bother with if it wasn't the case... (Just like non melee uptime pattern on Zordiark...) And you can always stand at melee range for the red also... NE boom ? You go W. NW boom ? Go E. You will be safe for the red.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quor

If the "In From the Cold" nerfs taught us anything, it's that the vast majority of the player base seems incapable of understanding context clues and is completely helpless without something akin to a bright neon arrow pointing them to exactly where they need to go.

It is my fervent hope that SE understands that said casual players will simply abandon the game when it becomes too boring for them, which it will in record time due to how absolutely braindead most content has become. SE will also lose the more dedicated fan base that was the source of this games revival and success in the process. SE will once again make the corporate mistake of prioritizing short-term profits over long-term sustained growth. I'm reminded of a line from the intro cutscene in Secret of Mana; time flows like a river, and history repeats. It seems as if the hubris of SE may once again be on the rise, with dedicated fans and new players alike, who both enjoy a challenge, being left behind in favor of the FotM fly-by-night casual crowd who will largely tap out after a handful of months.

---

I played WoW for 16 years and I left because there was little to no compelling casual content for me to do. WoW caters to hardcores now. Outside of random dungeon finder and LFR which are awful, there is no casual content in modern WoW. That is part of the reason why I (and many) left. A huge reason I stay here is BECAUSE of the super casual content. Not in spite of it. How can you say casual players will simply abandon the game? This is THE mmo for casual content...

What im gathering from this thread and others like it, is that there are a lot of people playing this game in their personal bubble and have no clue how the community beyond these forums and their inner circle of raiders or whatever hardcore players do, *actually* works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I played WoW for 16 years and I left because there was little to no compelling casual content for me to do. WoW caters to hardcores now. Outside of random dungeon finder and LFR which are awful, there is no casual content in modern WoW. That is part of the reason why I (and many) left. A huge reason I stay here is BECAUSE of the super casual content. Not in spite of it. How can you say casual players will simply abandon the game? This is THE mmo for casual content...

What im gathering from this thread and others like it, is that there are a lot of people playing this game in their personal bubble and have no clue how the community beyond these forums and their inner circle of raiders or whatever hardcore players do, *actually* works.

---

The things is we don't want a difficulty in casual content that could prevents casual from running casual contents, we want a difficulty that force player to actually plays the game, they are paying for and not waste the good player's time. I don't understand how people can accept to pass 25 min in expert roulettes when we can do it in 12 minutes. 25 minutes 90 dungeon shouldn't exist outside of trust. And such difficulty should be able to maintain a good player awake in those contents cause right now, we have more chance to fell asleep than dying..
The actual difficulty of all MSQ content from lvl 1 to 90 is under what you could find in an actual solo game that allows "just see the story difficulty mode".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilisidi

Eureka like Bozja is pretty unfriendly if you can't commit for longer play times. It locks you out of anything else and is very inefficient when done solo and punishes you for each ko.

Fates are more friendly grind content, they can be done even if you don't have a lot of time and you can queue for other content at the same time, there's less pressure to join a group.

---

Really? You think so? Maybe you mean now that it's not current?

I soloed my way through Bozja about 80-90% of the time with 30-60 min play sessions. Jumped into parties for CEs and for CLL/DR/D but otherwise just went on my own. On the flip side some FATEs are rough to solo, either they're not/barely possible or it takes a long time. It definitely sucked with essences for those short play times and I'd agree with that being unfriendly without longer play times. Overall though, Bozja was _perfect_ for my play sessions because I could easily go in and didn't need to commit a certain amount of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazelus

The things is we don't want a difficulty in casual content that could prevents casual from running casual contents, we want a difficulty that force player to actually plays the game, they are paying for and not waste the good player's time. I don't understand how people can accept to pass 25 min in expert roulettes when we can do it in 12 minutes. 25 minutes 90 dungeon shouldn't exist outside of trust. And such difficulty should be able to maintain good player to stay awake in those contents cause right now, we have more chance to fell asleep than dying..
The actual difficulty of all MSQ content from lvl 1 to 90 is under what you could find in an actual solo game that allows "just see the story difficulty mode".

---

I hope we can have a reasonable conversation about this, you seem reasonable.

Your post here to me just makes it seem like (obviously) different people want different things from this game. Like, everything you listed in that post as a negative, I view as a positive. Yoshi P and SE can, and will make mistakes of course. But they have to cater to the majority. Things like "Into the Cold" or whatever getting nerfed isn't done in a vaccum. They probably saw massive complaints or had data showing road blocks for a significant number of players at that part, and reacted accordingly.

I assure you, things will go your way when they start seeing players quit for reason "game too easy."

That isn't happening.

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redheadturk

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

---

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Syrri

I like this idea, give me a God Mode toggle for the game and you can make everything as hard as you like, I'll sit there with my ultimate shinies and titles without straining a finger while everyone else can huff and puff their way to the top.

---

I'm just talking about the specific scenario mentioned and stuff like it - arguably Trusts could come with that kind of option to avoid dumbing down normal content where they're available as an alternative so much, and allow people who just want to whiz through the story without much challenge to do that, so they can stop being used as an excuse.

I completed the scenario in one go and from what I remember it doesn't let you select the difficulty upfront, which maybe is something they could change, but on the other hand, I think there is some value in letting people see how they get on with the normal intended difficulty first. I appreciated that they were trying something novel in a 14 context with the scenario.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quor

If the "In From the Cold" nerfs taught us anything, it's that the vast majority of the player base seems incapable of understanding context clues and is completely helpless without something akin to a bright neon arrow pointing them to exactly where they need to go.

It is my fervent hope that SE understands that said casual players will simply abandon the game when it becomes too boring for them, which it will in record time due to how absolutely braindead most content has become. SE will also lose the more dedicated fan base that was the source of this games revival and success in the process. SE will once again make the corporate mistake of prioritizing short-term profits over long-term sustained growth. I'm reminded of a line from the intro cutscene in Secret of Mana; time flows like a river, and history repeats. It seems as if the hubris of SE may once again be on the rise, with dedicated fans and new players alike, who both enjoy a challenge, being left behind in favor of the FotM fly-by-night casual crowd who will largely tap out after a handful of months.

---

This. I usually enjoy playing games on a harder difficulty setting, partly because normal modes tend to have pushover enemies, and I don't think I'd give this game much of a go if I were to approach it as a fresh player looking for a single player experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

---

Most of the game's content is "Kill this thing, exit instance." of course a lot of people aren't going to be prepared for what is essentially a puzzle game being tossed into the middle of things. I suck at stealth, which was *part* of my issue with that quest, though once I figured out what I was supposed to do I cleared it easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I actually kinda use that quest as a benchmark for determining a players skill. I read a thread about it on these forums before I got to that part of MSQ and was horrified and terrified. I did it on normal, first try, with a couple minutes to spare. Thats far from a brag, im bad at games and I know it. The fact that people were struggling with that, really put things in perspective for me.

---

I had to run it twice because I put my controller down to grab a drink right before the quick time event lol.

Here's my argument and it's something that comes up A LOT in Final Fantasy 14, this is just a good example of it:

I loved In from the Cold because of the lack of direction and the feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness. But it was bad game design whenever you look at it within the context of Final Fantasy 14. FF14 holds your hand during the entirety of the game between the quest markers, "v.easy/easy" difficulty on solo duties, and Duty Finder parties easily carrying players. The game does a very bad job at fostering player skill and a very bad job at slowly pushing people to improve, instead they just offer ways to get around any sort of challenge that the player isn't interested in dealing with. You really can't drop something like In from the Cold onto these people who have been spoon fed easy content for hundreds of hours.

IMO at least.

That being said, I think that people should have been able to clear it if they just calmed down and looked around like they were supposed to, but it's like they were playing Mario 64 and suddenly ended up in a different game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I hope we can have a reasonable conversation about this, you seem reasonable.

Your post here to me just makes it seem like (obviously) different people want different things from this game. Like, everything you listed in that post as a negative, I view as a positive. Yoshi P and SE can, and will make mistakes of course. But they have to cater to the majority. Things like "Into the Cold" or whatever getting nerfed isn't done in a vaccum. They probably saw massive complaints or had data showing road blocks for a significant number of players at that part, and reacted accordingly.

I assure you, things will go your way when they start seeing players quit for reason "game too easy."

That isn't happening.

---

The problem is that part of the playerbase gets forced into something without a choice while the other gets to enjoy things their way.
Does anyone here mind a "story mode" in single players?
Probably not and the reason is that there is a choice. Someone can play a game in story mode, it doesn't affect me in the slightest because I can just play it on hard. If someone wants to play a game in coop with me but is dead set on story mode, I'll simply decline, find like-minded people and play it on hard with them.

MSQ is set to story mode.
All dungeons are set to story mode.
Open world (fates, hunts) is set to story mode.
Alliance and normal raids are set to a bit above story mode.
Bozja is set to story mode except for duels and DR savage.

The only things not set to story mode is content that is one boss on a platform, has to be done with 8 players and via PF/ static unless you're on JP, is not part of daily/ weekly tasks and requires a higher amount of time at once. You don't do a "quick ultimate", you don't spontaneously queue for p3s. Hopping into ex farm for 15min is considered a-hole behaviour and for good reason.
The famous response to the current state of healers would be just as tone-deaf if used for this problem.
There is no midcore content and there is no choice for how you do your weekly homework. My only ways to cap tomes right now are experts (story mode, yawn...), hunts (same), roulettes at 90 (pray I get a rarely done duty with clownfiesta), farming Aglaia (clownfiesta please, please, please).
I'd kill for 4man content with scaling difficulty that is an alternative route for catch up gear and tome farming. Or for slightly increased difficulty of MSQ with Duty Support (once expanded for all MSQ content) being the default story mode unless you change settings. Nobody is excluded from completing MSQ this way.

If if was entirely up to me, I'd go for a gradual, smooth increase in difficulty that lets people learn naturally without them even noticing while also offering tutorials like Hall of Novice/ Intermediate/ Advanced to refresh memory or give additional ways to learn if someone wants to. But I suppose that ship has long sailed and SE is already set on going the spoonfeeding route.
If they do it they at least need to give others the options to not get spoonfed outside savage/ ultimate. I'd prefer to be treated as if I have a functioning brain, thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redheadturk

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

---

Casual here. I cleared it on my first try without any guide well before the nerf and with the threat of disconnection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

The problem is that part of the playerbase gets forced into something without a choice while the other gets to enjoy things their way.
Does anyone here mind a "story mode" in single players?

---

Nobody is being forced to do anything though. The game is advertised as being an easy "for everyone" kinda game. It has never even tried to claim it was some kind of hardcore-game. The devs have continually made it very clear that they want to cast as wide a net as possible and get as many players in this game as possible, which means designing for non-gamers.

To claim that the base game is supposed to be hard or that it's dumbed down is just not the reality. It's designed to be super-accessible and easy; claiming it's supposed to be hard is like going into a Wendy's and complaining that we're forced to eat burgers.

I love playing harder games and I love me some Tacos, and I often go for those things. But this ain't it. This is..well.. a Wendy's.

All that said, your ideas for general midcore stuff.. I'd be down personally. But I know a lot of people in my circle of friends that even midcore stuff would be dead on arrival. I think the devs know what content people are doing, and are making more of what is successful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaynide

Nobody is being forced to do anything though. The game is advertised as being an easy "for everyone" kinda game. It has never even tried to claim it was some kind of hardcore-game. The devs have continually made it very clear that they want to cast as wide a net as possible and get as many players in this game as possible, which means designing for non-gamers.

To claim that the base game is supposed to be hard or that it's dumbed down is just not the reality. It's designed to be super-accessible and easy; claiming it's supposed to be hard is like going into a Wendy's and complaining that we're forced to eat burgers.

I love playing harder games and I love me some Tacos, and I often go for those things. But this ain't it. This is..well.. a Wendy's.

---

I hope that players who want a hard game realize that this isn't who this game is designed for. There is nothing wrong with asking them to change it, and they have a right to voice their opinion and their desires for the game of course. But they need to understand this games target audience. FFXIV is a beautiful marriage of the theme park MMO and sand box. It's a living breathing world with nightly player driven events everywhere, at least on my server, so yes, it is sand box too. It's the kind of game where many players can and do play for dozens of hours not doing any "combat" content and still have a great time. And still yet, there are extremes, savages, and ultimates etc.

That they are trying to cater toward people who want these harder things, and having witnessed other MMO developers basically tell entire section of their community to piss off, I would think players here would be more grateful that things like extremes, savages, and ultimates even exist at all, when you consider how few of their customers even ever see them. Especially ults.

It's the equivalent of ordering pasta at Wendy's, but only in this case, Wendy's is kind enough to actually try and provide some sort of pasta. if you don't like it, there are other restaurants across the street.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kaynide

Nobody is being forced to do anything though. The game is advertised as being an easy "for everyone" kinda game. It has never even tried to claim it was some kind of hardcore-game. The devs have continually made it very clear that they want to cast as wide a net as possible and get as many players in this game as possible, which means designing for non-gamers.

To claim that the base game is supposed to be hard or that it's dumbed down is just not the reality. It's designed to be super-accessible and easy; claiming it's supposed to be hard is like going into a Wendy's and complaining that we're forced to eat burgers.

I love playing harder games and I love me some Tacos, and I often go for those things. But this ain't it. This is..well.. a Wendy's.

All that said, your ideas for general midcore stuff.. I'd be down personally. But I know a lot of people in my circle of friends that even midcore stuff would be dead on arrival. I think the devs know what content people are doing, and are making more of what is successful.

---

I didn't say the game is supposed to be hard or hardcore nor did I ask for it to become hard, did I?
So I don't get what you are argueing here.

Don't jump to conclusions or put words in my mouth and then argueing against them just because I used the word hard in relation to single-player games. I explicitely mentioned that the game lacks midcore content.

When it comes to difficulty, Savage, Ex and Ultimate are totally fine. Same for most leveling dungeons.

But any dungeon on 50/60/70/80/90 needs to be harder. They are so easy, you cant even wipe them. Having a WAR in your group, who needs a healer? Ironically, those dungeons are labeled as "expert" dungeons. This moment when the hard mode is easier than the normal mode.

And 24 man raids are way to easy, too. In a normal group, you spent maybe 20 mins in it. But if feels like an eternity, because each boss fight is just doing damage, do one heal and maybe make a step to the side. I would prefer an intense 5 min boss fight over a boring 10 min boss fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caitlyn

And 24 man raids are way to easy, too. In a normal group, you spent maybe 20 mins in it. But if feels like an eternity, because each boss fight is just doing damage, do one heal and maybe make a step to the side. I would prefer an intense 5 min boss fight over a boring 10 min boss fight.

---

You say this, but the queues for these alliance raids takes absolutely forever outside of CT. Are you saying people don't queue for these raids because they are too slow and too easy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caitlyn

When it comes to difficulty, Savage, Ex and Ultimate are totally fine. Same for most leveling dungeons.

But any dungeon on 50/60/70/80/90 needs to be harder. They are so easy, you cant even wipe them. Having a WAR in your group, who needs a healer? Ironically, those dungeons are labeled as "expert" dungeons. This moment when the hard mode is easier than the normal mode.

And 24 man raids are way to easy, too. In a normal group, you spent maybe 20 mins in it. But if feels like an eternity, because each boss fight is just doing damage, do one heal and maybe make a step to the side. I would prefer an intense 5 min boss fight over a boring 10 min boss fight.

---

Im sorry, but I witness proof that goes against everything you have just said on a daily basis. Wipes in 4 person content, wipes to ancient flares, wipes to curtain calls, wipes galore in Neir raids etc. And no its not always my fault, and in fact rarely is but I can hear someone already saying its because im in the group haha.

Get Titania with a couple new people? Plan on being there until the end of the clock. Dun Scaith first boss? People leave, wipe, etc. Maybe your data center is just that much hardcore and thats fine. Oh and Diablos wipes are super common and the thunder god and the three sisters in the tower of babel. I keep editing and thinking of more each time that are often disasters so I will just stop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Im sorry, but I witness proof that goes against everything you have just said on a daily basis. Wipes in 4 person content, wipes to ancient flares, wipes to curtain calls, wipes galore in Neir raids etc. And no its not always my fault, and in fact rarely is but I can hear someone already saying its because im in the group haha.

Get Titania with a couple new people? Plan on being there until the end of the clock. Dun Scaith first boss? People leave, wipe, etc. Maybe your data center is just that much hardcore and thats fine. Oh and Diablos wipes are super common and the thunder god and the three sisters in the tower of babel. I keep editing and thinking of more each time that are often disasters so I will just stop.

---

???

None of this happens on crystal. Are you sure? You play on Primal, the hardcore raiding server.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tehmon

You say this, but the queues for these alliance raids takes absolutely forever outside of CT. Are you saying people don't queue for these raids because they are too slow and too easy?

---

CT is part of the MSQ and the default way to unlock alli raid roulette which gives a good chunk of exp and tomes.
Naturally way more people are only eligible for CT but will regularly do alli raid roulette on sub 90 classes, thus locking the group they land in to CT. Aglaia offers a coin and one item once per week and while glam farmers are not exactly uncommon in Aglaia the pool of players is far, far smaller than for CT.
It's a matter of simple logic and has nothing to with whether Aglaia is difficult or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ivtrix

???

None of this happens on crystal. Are you sure? You play on Primal, the hardcore raiding server.

---

Yep I promise. I have no reason to lie.

Its not ALWAYS like this, some runs are fast smooth and ez but its disastrous often enough to prove that we really are at the max already for content difficulty without losing a significant amount of people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redheadturk

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

---

I don't understand the complaint about it, nobody in my friend circle had trouble doing this quest first try without a guide. You have plenty of time to do so, depending on your setup, (screen width, distance from it, ps4/PC graphics) it may be harder to do it easily cause you won't see the direction the ennemy are facing.
I've done it first try, I was stressed as fuck cause I was really involved in the story and I wanted to go as fast as possible to save my scions friends from Zenos. I've headed in the wrong direction at the start, I lose a lot of times fighting monsters in that way, I found the fuel first but couldn't take it. I had to get back, I found the machine that needed fuel and had to travel all the ways back to take the fuel. And I finished it first try and I had time to spare at the end. All the informations you need are said in the quest. It's clearly a skill check like Xaruko said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Yep I promise. I have no reason to lie.

Its not ALWAYS like this, some runs are fast smooth and ez but its disastrous often enough to prove that we really are at the max already for content difficulty without losing a significant amount of people.

---

You said I seems to be reasonable so I will apply the same to you. But you really think we will lose people just because they can't do a content on the first go ? I can't believe people expect to finish every content on first try without actually trying to do things correctly... Cause if there is a wipe, it means something haven't been done correctly...
The only wipe I get nowaday on CT are on the Atomos in labyrinth because A pulled directly or eventually an ancient flare but for it, it's 50/50 either people freak out when it's killable before the end of the cast or they greed when it's not...
I don't like wiping, especially on thing that souldn't make us wipe( I look at out P3S "black flames"), but a game I can rush on one try without dying ever... I'm not gonna finish it, if it's for only facerolls the story, I don't the point in playing, let's see the cinematics on youtube, it will be faster... (And cheaper...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ivtrix

???

None of this happens on crystal. Are you sure? You play on Primal, the hardcore raiding server.

---

Doesn't happen on Aether either. Only wipes that I've seen are whenever half of the DPS greeds Phlegethon and the other half gets scared and doesn't commit. Could be the time that they play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Doesn't happen on Aether either. Only wipes that I've seen are whenever half of the DPS greeds Phlegethon and the other half gets scared and doesn't commit. Could be the time that they play.

---

It's fair to say I usually play late at night and often without any pre-made group members. Its nothing to get randoms late at night who seem to always comment about their own inebriation level, so I am willing to admit time of day could certainly play a role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

CT is part of the MSQ and the default way to unlock alli raid roulette which gives a good chunk of exp and tomes.
Naturally way more people are only eligible for CT but will regularly do alli raid roulette on sub 90 classes, thus locking the group they land in to CT. Aglaia offers a coin and one item once per week and while glam farmers are not exactly uncommon in Aglaia the pool of players is far, far smaller than for CT.
It's a matter of simple logic and has nothing to with whether Aglaia is difficult or not.

---

Aglaia is actually very active and it doesn't take long to find players, I'm moreso talking about the HW-SB-ShB alliance raids, which took me forever to queue for. Furthermore there were several times where people canceled their queue, I assume because it wasn't CT they were getting in their roulette.

Either way, if there is a considerable amount of people seeking harder than casual content, you'd think they have the all alliance raids unlocked, because that is the closest to '' midcore '' content we have imo. But for whatever reason people aren't unlocking them actively, or... not wanting to play them?

They don't have to change everything to be somewhat harder, but more difficult daily content would be really appreciated.

I fell asleep while doing Aglaia this week because it was boring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tehmon

Either way, if there is a considerable amount of people seeking harder than casual content, you'd think they have the all alliance raids unlocked, because that is the closest to '' midcore '' content we have imo. But for whatever reason people aren't unlocking them actively, or... not wanting to play them?

---

I would love me some level 60 alliance raids instead of never ending CT roulette. But I haven't seen one in months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Im sorry, but I witness proof that goes against everything you have just said on a daily basis. Wipes in 4 person content, wipes to ancient flares, wipes to curtain calls, wipes galore in Neir raids etc. And no its not always my fault, and in fact rarely is but I can hear someone already saying its because im in the group haha.

Get Titania with a couple new people? Plan on being there until the end of the clock. Dun Scaith first boss? People leave, wipe, etc. Maybe your data center is just that much hardcore and thats fine. Oh and Diablos wipes are super common and the thunder god and the three sisters in the tower of babel. I keep editing and thinking of more each time that are often disasters so I will just stop.

---

My data center is beyond of being hardcore. I dont say anything to make the content hard as hell. Just shorter and more engaging. Aglaia for example is a raid where you dont need to heal for the most part. It would be enough to have only one heal here.
There is no real healing challenge. As a sage, you just need to do damage on a single target. And that it not really excited. Its like hitting a SSS dummy but for a longer time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tehmon

You say this, but the queues for these alliance raids takes absolutely forever outside of CT. Are you saying people don't queue for these raids because they are too slow and too easy?

---

People go into alliance raids just because of the EXP. And since CT is extremely short, people will prefer CT over any other raid. And you can still wipe in CT.
I would prefer CT over Nier or Rabanstre too. Not because Nier is harder or something. Its just faster. I got enough runs in Nier where people doing so less damage, that we killed the 2nd boss after 30mins. No one was dead or wiped the raid.
If you dont want to make 24 man raids harder, fine. But then make it shorter.


Let me compare Aglaia with CT.

CT got trash. I hate trash.
But you have some kind of big healing (bone dragon).
You have to split into your groups (atomos).
You have tank swaps (thanatos?).
You have wipe mechanics (atomos, behemoth and the last boss).
The healer glamour is nice.
15-20 mins and you re done.

Aglaia got trash too.
No real big healing there.
No split up into groups.
No tank swaps.
Only one real wipe mechanic at the very end (balance).
The healer glamour is nice.
25-35 mins for the most part.


If someone wipes for Flare in CT, its still fun. Its just a meme and makes everyone laugh.
But if someone wipes on balance in Aglaia I would ragequit immediately. The fight just takes so long and is so boring. And you have to do it all over again, just because someone didnt stand on the right side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

They don't have to change everything to be somewhat harder, but more difficult daily content would be really appreciated.

I fell asleep while doing Aglaia this week because it was boring.

I would love me some level 60 alliance raids instead of never ending CT roulette. But I haven't seen one in months.

---

On Primal I dont get anything from CT very often anymore. IDK if people cant or wont queue naked anymore but getting the others a LOT more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tehmon

Aglaia is actually very active and it doesn't take long to find players, I'm moreso talking about the HW-SB-ShB alliance raids, which took me forever to queue for. Furthermore there were several times where people canceled their queue, I assume because it wasn't CT they were getting in their roulette.

Either way, if there is a considerable amount of people seeking harder than casual content, you'd think they have the all alliance raids unlocked, because that is the closest to '' midcore '' content we have imo. But for whatever reason people aren't unlocking them actively, or... not wanting to play them?

---

The same rule still applies to HW/ SB/ ShB alli raids.
CT is mandatory so even the smallest amount of the playerbase not unlocking HW/ SB/ ShB already reduces the pool of players eligible for it. CT is available at 50 while the other alli raids are 60/70/80 further reducing the pool of players by a signifcant amount the higher up you go.
A single person sub 60 is enough to lock 23 other people into CT and it doesn't matter if 23 other people could also get other alli raids in their roulette and roulette is still the biggest reason to do alli raids, that has nothing to do with difficulty.

I know you're trying really hard to argue that nobody needs more midcore content because the alli raid queue times clearly prove that it's not wanted with that really, really subtle "or... not wanting to play them?" but use some logic.
I have all alli raids unlocked and I rarely get anything other than CT because I always have a few people that are sub 60. I'd love to see Ivalice and Nier more often alas the playerpool for them is simply a lot smaller by nature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caitlyn

My data center is beyond of being hardcore. I dont say anything to make the content hard as hell. Just shorter and more engaging. Aglaia for example is a raid where you dont need to heal for the most part.

---

I still need to do Aglaia this week. I will record a video tonight and post to youtube so you can see just how much you "dont need to heal for the most part." Im probably not allowed to link to the video here, but it will be findable. Im not disputing that you really believe the things you are saying, but my experience is very, very different lol. Like half the raid still gets blown off of Rhalgar multiple times.