I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

It's the tanks job to hold aggro, so they do the pulls. I act on that unwritten rule and, in my opinion, everyone who willingly likes to mess with that philosophy can die to the mobs they pulled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

Following this logic, as a more experienced player, you can give advice or ask to do big pulls, instead of running ahead and forcing, making the game stressful. Do you feel the difference?

There are people on the other side of the monitor too. They may not know something or not be able to. But this is not a reason for pressure, it is a reason to start a dialogue.

---

If the tank is not showing basic competency, no, I'm not going to offer advice; I'm going to force the issue. Again, no one should be asking for, negioiating, or whatever else, basic competency. If a tank cannot demonstrate basic competency, they should do us all a favour and not queue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

If the tank is not showing basic competency, no, I'm not going to offer advice; I'm going to force the issue. Again, no one should be asking for, negioiating, or whatever else, basic competency. If a tank cannot demonstrate basic competency, they should do us all a favour and not queue.

---

Doing big pulls is not showing basic competency. It is showing impatience.
Players who insist on big pulls should do the tanking themselves - that way they get to decide the size of pulls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayRadley

The meta, from what I gleaned in both conversations on this forum and elsewhere as well as some Youtube videos on the matter, seems to be about blowing through a dungeon as quickly as possible. That's not fun for me, especially when I'm tanking. I will do the biggest pulls I can manage, and I will pump out as much DPS as I can while maintaining aggro, but I likely will not just rush rush rush through a dungeon as quickly as I can.

Few days ago, while running a Level 80 roulette, I had a healer who kept running out ahead of me, the tank. They were drawing aggro from the mobs while I was trying to play catch-up, and I was damned tempted to let them die.

Please do not rush me. :'(

---

ewww a single pull tank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayRadley

snip

---

pull at your own pace, sugar. If you feel ambitious save the jerk pulling extra. If not, don't. If they kick you, you're going to be back in your dungeon again in seconds. I don't think most people will care. You'll be ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

I didn't ignore your whole post as it just boils down to making a strawman argument, just like this one.

I think focusing on one mob in a pack is playing badly, but I disagree that pulling a single pack is playing badly.

---

Can keep calling it strawman if you want if it makes you feel better, because I know you don't have anything else worth to say, single pack tank ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Did HoN teach how to use that word btw? (Hint in case you didn't catch on like my previous post. Since you take every as if it was directed towards you....HoN is bad)
If you have nothing else to add, other than defending bad play. Stop talking.

And no, single pack tanking is playing badly.
Are you going to pull wall to wall in full raid gear or are you going to pull one at a time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Playing badly? I don't think so either. Playing optimally? Probably not, no. A lot of people prefer optimal play, myself included. Pulling everything you can and AoEing them all down is no doubt the best way. When I'm not tanking (which is actually pretty rare nowadays) and I'm playing as a dps...small pulls like that annoy me, but I also accept that not everyone is able to or is willing to pull wall to wall for whatever reasons they have. As much as it may annoy me, sometimes that is simply how it's going to play out.

---

I have to disagree.
Its just not playing optimally , its just not playing well at all. Aka Playing badly.
Unless you're under geared, you shouldn't be pulling that small knowing full well you're not going to die and how powerful healers heals are.
As someone said few pages back, if you're tanking less than what a Melee DPS can, you shouldn't be tanking.
I'm not gonna convince you but nobody can convince me its not bad play.

I'll let small pulls pass IF
the healer is trash or the tank gear is bad and in some cases though more rare than the former, if the dps is terrible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

I'm not gonna convince you but nobody can convince me its not bad play.

---

Well, at least we agree on something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

communication is key

---

Indeed. Communication is key in both ways. If you want your tank to go faster, you can tell them about it. But to run forward and aggro everything, forcing the tank to run between the pulls ... This is a bad idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

If the tank is not showing basic competency, no, I'm not going to offer advice; I'm going to force the issue. Again, no one should be asking for, negioiating, or whatever else, basic competency. If a tank cannot demonstrate basic competency, they should do us all a favour and not queue.

---

It's not about competency. I's about the comfort of the group. If you don't want to talk to people to ensure yours and their comfort and prefer stress, well, I'm sorry for you.

Some of the responses in this thread make me glad I tank when I do roulette's...

Why not just do trusts or play with friends if you want to go slow?

When I unlock new dungeons I always do the first run in a trust for the very reason of soaking in the atmosphere/chilling.

It's not that I don't feel comfortable with big pulls per se, just that, no matter how big of a pull the tank could actually handle, I still want the whole party to be within healing range of each other. I stopped counting the wipes that were due to tanks not waiting for the rest of the party to be within healing range before pulling... especially since you shouldn't assume people's loading screens to be as fast as yours. Sometimes going at a snail's pace really avoids wipes...

If the tanks pulling ahead, only the tank needs to be in healing range.
Don’t stick by the DPS, stick by the tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

If the tanks pulling ahead, only the tank needs to be in healing range.
Don’t stick by the DPS, stick by the tank.

---

Yep.

Tanking 101- Stick with your healer.

Healer 101- Stick with your tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

I love that everyone seems to know what everyone else in the group wants.

There is no "3 people want it this way and 1 doesn't!" regardless of which way the wind is blowing. Just take the 3 seconds as the instance is loading in to actually talk to each other.
It's all assumptions regardless of what you think the meta is, what your own personal desires are, what you had for breakfast this morning, etc.

---

Bolded for emphasis (mine). The thing is, and many have stated here I am sure, that there apparently is now a "Community Expectation" to just pull wall-to-wall. Period. No more communicating, or saying you want to do this or that. And lordy if you go against such "Community Expectations" you are a baaad person and should be kicked, leave, do PFs or Trusts.

The thing is, this "Community Expectations" thing was created by players themselves. True, one could argue that SE essentially was the catalyst when they moved from branching dungeons to linear ones, as well as easy trash mobs between arbitrary barricades/walls. But they weren't the ones who said you must play this way. The player base decided that by finding the most optimal way to do a dungeon (which is really human nature) and it spread around.

For those who suggest making a PF for it. Yeah right. Have you ever tried doing that? So then there are a few other options.

1. Trusts/Squadrons. Now IIRC, Squadrons are only unlocked after a certain level and GC rank. So it isn't around for really new people. Also, they don't have all the dungeons there, nor do they go past level 60 dungeons. Same with Trusts. Only happen in ShB and after level 70 IIRC. So that idea only works in specific situations.

2. Communicate. No matter your job you are playing. I understand those on PS4 might not have keyboards, but you can make macros! That's what I do to say hello and goodbye. Making one that you are new or that you take your time is possible.

3. Deal and Move on. If those in the DF don't agree with your pace or are doing things you don't like, don't say anything and leave. Some might disagree with this, but it saves you from possibly getting reported and suspended (cause we all know how poo this new ToS is). Do other stuff for 30 minutes. It isn't the end of the world.

I've started to take my own advice on this, as I used to get upset when I want to check out the lore in a new dungeon or see what was in that side room. Overall this is a game where you have fun. Don't get yourself upset over something so minuscule as a dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Doing big pulls is not showing basic competency. It is showing impatience.
Players who insist on big pulls should do the tanking themselves - that way they get to decide the size of pulls.

---

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

It's not about competency. I's about the comfort of the group. If you don't want to talk to people to ensure yours and their comfort and prefer stress, well, I'm sorry for you.

---

It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?



It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

---

The one thing you are leaving out is circumstance and points of view. Is the healer capable? Are the dps able to put out reasonable numbers? A lot of the time it takes an outside perspective to see such things. I'm all for large pulls, I sort of have to be, not that I have an issue with them anyway. However, a good tank also needs to learn how to read a room. Big pulls mean nothing if your healer and dps is subpar for pulls like that. And like I said, that is a bit easier to see from the outside looking in. Your default argument is "small pulls bad, big pulls good, git gud scrubs or git out". That's nice, how about you take various factors into account? It's not as black and white as you think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The one thing you are leaving out is circumstance and points of view. Is the healer capable? Are the dps able to put out reasonable numbers? A lot of the time it takes an outside perspective to see such things. I'm all for large pulls, I sort of have to be, not that I have an issue with them anyway. However, a good tank also needs to learn how to read a room. Big pulls mean nothing if your healer and dps is subpar for pulls like that. And like I said, that is a bit easier to see from the outside looking in. Your default argument is "small pulls bad, big pulls good, git gud scrubs or git out". That's nice, how about you take various factors into account? It's not as black and white as you think.

---

In this game, you don't need any high skill ceiling DPS and healers to pull it off. You just need players who are not complete turds. Middling healers and DPS will not cause problems with large pulls. I do most of my Expert Roulette as my WHM, and even with big pulls, unless I fall asleep on the couch or lag out, the tank never dies. I've even been in groups with sub-par DPS, and nothing ever comes close to a wipe.

This game is not hard. It's brain dead easy on everything not named Savage. Big pulls should never be a stressful experience for any tank, unless they literally have no clue what their buttons do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Playing badly? I don't think so either. Playing optimally? Probably not, no. A lot of people prefer optimal play, myself included. Pulling everything you can and AoEing them all down is no doubt the best way. When I'm not tanking (which is actually pretty rare nowadays) and I'm playing as a dps...small pulls like that annoy me, but I also accept that not everyone is able to or is willing to pull wall to wall for whatever reasons they have. As much as it may annoy me, sometimes that is simply how it's going to play out.

---

I can agree with that. What I don't agree is labeling people who want to single pull as garbage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

In this game, you don't need any high skill ceiling DPS and healers to pull it off. You just need players who are not complete turds. Middling healers and DPS will not cause problems with large pulls. I do most of my Expert Roulette as my WHM, and even with big pulls, unless I fall asleep on the couch or lag out, the tank never dies. I've even been in groups with sub-par DPS, and nothing ever comes close to a wipe.

This game is not hard. It's brain dead easy on everything not named Savage. Big pulls should never be a stressful experience for any tank, unless they literally have no clue what their buttons do.

---

But then, that's just something you put up with--the subpar dps and healing--because your threshold is not wiping. Some people, like me, would rather just re-adjust to single pulls because why go the extra mile of mass pulling if no else in the party won't and/or can't put the effort in? That wouldn't make me garbage, I'm just reading room and adjusting accordingly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SenorPatty

But then, that's just something you put up with--the subpar dps and healing--because your threshold is not wiping. Some people, like me, would rather just re-adjust to single pulls because why go the extra mile of mass pulling if no else in the party won't and/or can't put the effort in? That wouldn't make me garbage, I'm just reading room and adjusting accordingly.

---

There we go, someone else gets it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayRadley

snip.

---

The issue I take with this mindset is that this is from the PoV of only yourself and what you specifically want to do instead of thinking of the other people in your group. The moment you step into group content it stops being about you and about the other people you are grouped with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

It's the tanks job to hold aggro, so they do the pulls. I act on that unwritten rule and, in my opinion, everyone who willingly likes to mess with that philosophy can die to the mobs they pulled.

---

Yeah no, that's bad play/griefing and it's outing yourself as a party dictator (it's also slowing the run down). Just tell them not to pull for you once everything is dealt with, or adjust to bigger pulls if the extra mobs didn't cause a wipe.

The only time small pulls > big pulls is if the DPS and healer are bad (don't AoE, don't DPS, undergeared, etc). Everyone controls the pace of the run. Not just the tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

No, it's basic competency. Most tanks do employ basic competency. Those who do not make it miserable for the rest of the group. Why should the tank be more important than the rest of the group?

It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

---

Nope, doing big pulls has nothing to do with competency. You can argue that being able to handle a big pull is basic competency, but actually doing big pulls or not has nothing to do with competency.


Unlike you I will claim that doing big pulls is actually a bad habit and sloppy tactics only made possible because enemies are weak.
Pulling big when the opponents actually are dangerous will result in a wipe, and is therefore a bad habit to get into.
Good tactics is to minimize the danger of each fight - hence small pulls are good tactics. That doing small pulls means the run takes a few minutes longer is of not important.

Doing really big pulls just means fights get more chaotic. Chaotic fights are bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

Indeed. Communication is key in both ways. If you want your tank to go faster, you can tell them about it. But to run forward and aggro everything, forcing the tank to run between the pulls ... This is a bad idea.

---

Same could be said however to those who want to go slower, what you have to communicate is how you're going outside the norm either by being blazing fast or being slow as a snail

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Nope, doing big pulls has nothing to do with competency. You can argue that being able to handle a big pull is basic competency, but actually doing big pulls or not has nothing to do with competency.


Unlike you I will claim that doing big pulls is actually a bad habit and sloppy tactics only made possible because enemies are weak.
Pulling big when the opponents actually are dangerous will result in a wipe, and is therefore a bad habit to get into.
Good tactics is to minimize the danger of each fight - hence small pulls are good tactics. That doing small pulls means the run takes a few minutes longer is of not important.

Doing really big pulls just means fights get more chaotic. Chaotic fights are bad.

---

Good tactics maximize the resources you have without risking the clear therefore why pulling big is actually a good habit, enemies are weak so in order to get the most out of your tools you must take as much as them as possible making the healers less likely to overheal, getting more value out of aoes and getting more value out of % mitigation

Small pulls renders either tanks or healers unnecessary (for example you can single pull as healer with 2 dps all the pulls of grand cosmos and anyder), that is not a good resource management and therefore the tactics that relies on those are less efficient and worse overall

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Nope, doing big pulls has nothing to do with competency. You can argue that being able to handle a big pull is basic competency, but actually doing big pulls or not has nothing to do with competency.

---

If your skill level is holding you back from being able to handle big pulls, you are incompetent.
If you and your party are both capable of handling large pulls and you still refuse to do it, you're still incompetent but in a different way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Unlike you I will claim that doing big pulls is actually a bad habit and sloppy tactics only made possible because enemies are weak.

---

Exploiting the weakness of your enemies for efficiency is good game-play, not sloppy tactics. Players are adapting to the way the game is designed to maximize the value of their time invested. If you have a problem, blame the devs not the players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Pulling big when the opponents actually are dangerous will result in a wipe, and is therefore a bad habit to get into.

---

Dungeons are completely static in this game. You aren't going to queue up for Copperbell Mines one day and get your face punched in by a dragon that wasn't there yesterday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Good tactics is to minimize the danger of each fight - hence small pulls are good tactics. That doing small pulls means the run takes a few minutes longer is of not important.

---

There is also an extremely minimal amount of risk involved in the vast majority of large pulls, as the skill requirement to execute big pulls is extremely small.

In a game with daily rewards and static completion rewards, time essentially has direct value. If you spend 5-10 minutes extra in each of your dungeon roulettes, it can actually add up pretty quickly across the span of a week, especially if you're adding that time for essentially no reason.

Big pulls are an extremely accessible step any player can make that nets them a huge amount of saved time vs effort involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Doing really big pulls just means fights get more chaotic. Chaotic fights are bad.

---

What exactly is 'Chaos' and how is it bad?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SenorPatty

But then, that's just something you put up with--the subpar dps and healing--because your threshold is not wiping. Some people, like me, would rather just re-adjust to single pulls because why go the extra mile of mass pulling if no else in the party won't and/or can't put the effort in? That wouldn't make me garbage, I'm just reading room and adjusting accordingly.

---

I agree with you and I do the same, but I still feel like a certain pressure should be put on people to play at a certain level, obviously not to a stressful degree.

That's probably the biggest annoyance about this game for me, that even playing at an average level isn't expected. Which doesn't matter in beginner dungeons, but is actually so frustrating during anything after 50. And most critique is handwoven because something something my personal playstyle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Euphares

I agree with you and I do the same, but I still feel like a certain pressure should be put on people to play at a certain level, obviously not to a stressful degree.

That's probably the biggest annoyance about this game for me, that even playing at an average level isn't expected. Which doesn't matter in beginner dungeons, but is actually so frustrating during anything after 50. And most critique is handwoven because something something my personal playstyle.

---

This is true, I was doing cutters cry via leveling, and our tank could not even hold aggro so they healer just kept me alive as a drg tank even during wall to wall pulls and did not even bother to acknowledge the tank after they ignored requests to use their AoE. I think a part of the problem is that through the leveling process groups generally are capable of making up for massive defects in terms of how one plays just through sheer power of the abilities. People can get away with a lot of mistakes throughout the leveling process well up to level 80 just through a combination of skill, and gear.

The game provides very little reason for someone to take the time to learn how to properly play their role. Too many methods to bypass the need to learn either from the community or devs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah no, that's bad play/griefing and it's outing yourself as a party dictator (it's also slowing the run down).

---

You are so incapable of understanding a rule of politeness (which seemed standard / normal when I was new) as one, that it's outright baffling to me.

If I'm the tank, I decide how much is pulled. If someone else is the tank, they decide the amount of mobs. It's as simple as that.

This philosophy has nothing to do with dictatorship (and you even going that far to put it that way makes me wonder several things); it's all about how much a tank has the courage to hold larger groups and / or if they trust the present healer.

If people find it amusing to willingly mess with that just because they are in a rush or whatever reason they may have, they deserve to get the aggro they provoked. Rushers can tank themselves or pick a friend to do so if they aren't able to cope with different kinds of tanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Nope, doing big pulls has nothing to do with competency. You can argue that being able to handle a big pull is basic competency, but actually doing big pulls or not has nothing to do with competency.


Unlike you I will claim that doing big pulls is actually a bad habit and sloppy tactics only made possible because enemies are weak.
Pulling big when the opponents actually are dangerous will result in a wipe, and is therefore a bad habit to get into.
Good tactics is to minimize the danger of each fight - hence small pulls are good tactics. That doing small pulls means the run takes a few minutes longer is of not important.

Doing really big pulls just means fights get more chaotic. Chaotic fights are bad.

---

This is inherently contradictory. If enemies are weak, then large pulls are not dangerous. Furthermore, sloppy tactics implies bad. If big pulls can be handled with minimal to no risk whatsoever, then they aren't sloppy. It being not only possible but considerably easy alone defeats your entire argument.

Minimizing danger only matters if you're actually in danger. A small pull deals such meager damage, DPS could tank it themselves. In fact, when I do have tanks who pull small, I literally do not heal them. No Regen, Benison or Solace. Nothing. I sit there and spam Holy or Glare. The damage is that low. To be fair, I barely heal the large pulls in most Expert dungeons but those at least require some cooldowns. It also shaves off more than a few minutes. There's a reason Trusts take upwards of forty minutes while that same dungeon with a decent party mass pulling and AoEing can be done in twenty.

Big pulls are only chaotic if the tank or healer doesn't know how to handle them. They really should by 50; 60 at the absolute latest. With only a handful of exceptions, most big pulls have very little risk involved assuming the players are remotely competent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

You are so incapable of understanding a rule of politeness (which seemed standard / normal when I was new) as one, that it's outright baffling to me.

If I'm the tank, I decide how much is pulled. If someone else is the tank, they decide the amount of mobs. It's as simple as that.

This philosophy has nothing to do with dictatorship (and you even going that far to put it that way makes me wonder several things); it's all about how much a tank has the courage to hold larger groups and / or if they trust the present healer.

If people find it amusing to willingly mess with that just because they are in a rush or whatever reason they may have, they deserve to get the aggro they provoked. Rushers can tank themselves or pick a friend to do so if they aren't able to cope with different kinds of tanks.

---

This makes you a dictator. Your preference trumps upwards of three other people, including the healer whose really the main factor here. If they, especially, tell you to pull more or even pull for you. Well, their the ones responsible for your HP. Refusing to pull off them and allowing the entire group to wipe as a result is simply you being petty. Frankly, I'd Vote Kick you long before the person pulling because only you've disrupted the run. Those extra mobs didn't cause a wipe. You did. You can make whatever justification you want but at the end of the day, you let the healer die (in this hypothetical) which directly led to us all wiping.

Politeness is not purposely wiping the group because you're mad. Either ask the person not to pull, take it as an opportunity to test yourself (and if you wipe, you get to blame them. Win/Win, really) or Vote Kick if they keep going on ahead. All of those are better alternatives than puffing your chest and refusing to do your job.

Then don't rush. Talk the talk and walk the walk. But you'll be doing what you like, and I guess that way it will get easier for you to find the likeminded people.
But not everyone is going to like your style. And people like myself are going to remain phlegmatic, because I never considered this be-all and end-all sort of thing. 20 min dungeon vs 50 min dungeon.
I see the difference, but fuk do I not care. First is likely being played by group of seasoned players, second having someone having to take afk break, both tank and healer being first times and just generally new to their roles, wipes in more than one boss and whatever.
I am jumping into unknown when jumping into DF. Trying to control chaos takes too much fukin energy, so instead I adjust to it.
And please, do not come up with second part for this thread: " I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like certain people not agreeing with my playstyle."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

You are so incapable of understanding a rule of politeness (which seemed standard / normal when I was new) as one, that it's outright baffling to me.

If I'm the tank, I decide how much is pulled. If someone else is the tank, they decide the amount of mobs. It's as simple as that.

This philosophy has nothing to do with dictatorship (and you even going that far to put it that way makes me wonder several things); it's all about how much a tank has the courage to hold larger groups and / or if they trust the present healer.

If people find it amusing to willingly mess with that just because they are in a rush or whatever reason they may have, they deserve to get the aggro they provoked. Rushers can tank themselves or pick a friend to do so if they aren't able to cope with different kinds of tanks.

---

Mate, if you're choosing to do small pulls even after the Healer (and/or DPS) says you can do big pulls, then you absolutely are being a dictator. You're saying "I'm a tank and I alone decide how things are done." That is more impolite (heck, I'd even go as far as saying that's pretty damn rude) than a DPS/Healer pulling ahead and grabbing mobs for you.

There's no I in Team.

Here's the rest of what I said in what you left out in your quote (and I just don't feel like repeating myself):

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Just tell them not to pull for you once everything is dealt with, or adjust to bigger pulls if the extra mobs didn't cause a wipe.

The only time small pulls > big pulls is if the DPS and healer are bad (don't AoE, don't DPS, undergeared, etc). Everyone controls the pace of the run. Not just the tank.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

It is nothing to do with comfort. The tanks that do single pulls are playing the game very, very badly. You do not want to justify bad play, ever.

---

No, they are not bad players. These people may have specific reasons for not doing large pulls, as Vahlnir mentioned above. To be honest, I am surprised by your ultimatum position, which runs counter to common sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaxSw

Same could be said however to those who want to go slower, what you have to communicate is how you're going outside the norm either by being blazing fast or being slow as a snail

---

You want big pulls. Your tank doesn't make big pulls for some reason. Tell them about it instead of pulling as heal or dps. What is the problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RajNish

No, they are not bad players. These people may have specific reasons for not doing large pulls, as Vahlnir mentioned above. To be honest, I am surprised by your ultimatum position, which runs counter to common sense.

---

Do. Not. Justify. Bad. Play.

These players who do not do large pulls are either bad or ignorant. If one can safely do large pulls (which is true in the lion's share of cases, and only not true if you have no idea what your buttons do), and yet one chooses to do small pulls, one is playing poorly. It's amazing that there are some in this community who want to continue to see bad play propagated throughout the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli85

If one can safely do large pulls (which is true in the lion's share of cases, and only not true if you have no idea what your buttons do), and yet one chooses to do small pulls, one is playing poorly.

---

Wrong. The game mechanic must provide negative consequence for playing poorly. Otherwise, it's just a playstyle preference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

Wrong. The game mechanic must provide negative consequence for playing poorly. Otherwise, it's just a playstyle preference.

---

Exactly this. So long as the duty gets completed, there's no penalty, loss of rewards, etc., therefore it's not 'bad play'. It's just probably not time efficient, which matters to some people but not others.

Doing smaller pulls may be sub optimal, but would not go as far as saying you are a bad player, Just a less the ideal player in certain circumstances. Which is okay, but in the end do not expect people to just stand by and accept it though. Sure a person may be behind the screen but outside that fact random people you run in will not know why or for what reason one chooses to do things they way they want to do.

Personally I do not think people should be berated for difference in play style, but I also do not think people should force a group to play a certain way. Speak up, start a vote do something, but holding ones tongue and going with the flow begrudgingly just creates further issues down the line.

"Always wall to wall pull!"

*Wall to wall pulls the mobs after the first boss in Ala Mhigo*

(SPLAT)

Well, that was predictable.


...Oh look, this healer wants to BIG PULL in Baldesions Arsenal...(SPLAT goes the group) Oh for the love of-


The last pull in The Burn, with a single-targeting DPS and a healer that keeps DPSing instead of healing even when healing is really needed, with deadly results. (SPLAT goes the group)

But no, you are not allowed to read the room and try to avoid an obvious outcome, that's being a dictator, gotta play along and allow the wipe to happen, then get blamed anyway for giving the group what they wanted, because they didn't like the result.


Or, when you read the room, realize that a big pull is not going to work, and then an impatient party member forces the matter and gets everyone killed, then acts like their own idiocy is the tanks fault, because clearly every mistake the rest of the group makes is purely the tanks fault, because the group says so, all evidence to the contrary is invalid.

And if you call them out on causing wipes and wasting even more time then they get all sorts of pissy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mixt

Or, when you read the room, realize that a big pull is not going to work, and then an impatient party member forces the matter and gets everyone killed, then acts like their own idiocy is the tanks fault, because clearly every mistake the rest of the group makes is purely the tanks fault, because the group says so, all evidence to the contrary is invalid.

---

This is exactly the sort of behavior a certain someone is promoting while crying out "DON'T PROMOTE BAD PLAY!" It's hypocritical at best. A good tank adapts to their situation. Should their situation be better at times? Yeah, I can't really argue that. There are "bad" players out there. Like I said in another thread though, that isn't entirely on the player base to address. The game itself does a poor job of promoting good/efficient gameplay because it really is easy for the vast majority of people. And even then, those who choose to improve will improve. Those who don't will not. It's as simple as that. The "you don't pay my sub" types won't improve no matter how hard anyone tries to help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linayar

Wrong. The game mechanic must provide negative consequence for playing poorly. Otherwise, it's just a playstyle preference.

---

I wish more people realised this. I prefer multi-pack pulls but this doesn't mean I think smaller or single-pack pulls are actually wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

A good tank adapts to their situation.

---

/thread

Personally, and Inb4 "you can do that after the run is done" but sometimes I like to stare at how beautiful dungeons are (Grand Cosmos anyone?) or want to read those papers/notes/whatever that are sometimes scattered around dungeons/alliances. I like having sprouts in party, specially if they're the tanks, because then I have an excuse to not rush through everything. That's not to say big pulls and fast runs are bad - your playtime may be limited, maybe you're cooking, or should be asleep, or its close to daily reset, maybe you just don't like this dungeon, whatever the reason is just as valid.
Just saying that sometimes it feels good to not feel like you have a rope around your neck, specially as a tank or healer. I'm sure some people would love it if XIV had a "Mythic+" mode, but that's a whole other can of worms.