Why do so many people FAIL at dps.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

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As far as dungeons go, a good reason is that those who are already geared, but are grinding dungeons for ESO for maybe an alt or whatever reason, just go in, and do the bare minimum because thta's all that's required in basic lv. 60 dungeons. It's not like they're hard and require a huge amount of effort, just basic knowledge and basic rotations will get you through just fine. Even in Alex and Ark, people could do the basic necessities.

ALso, arguing about dps in 4 man dungeons is just stupid unless they're just auto attacking *only* or is afk. The dungeons can almost be 2 manned now.

We can also toss it up to possibly poor teaching from members. I have run into some dps who say they were told to not use certain skills or even a healer who was told to never dps, only heal when I was tanking Satasha normal. She actually thanked me for letting her dps cus she found it boring to never attack and this was a level 53 whitemage.

Just checked and I have a parse on this site that someone uploaded at 26/12 with 100 DPS. It's bad because I was teaching my AST friend that day and mostly solo-healing because he died 3 times in a row. People shouldn't upload numbers there without consent, geez!

Yeah, that seems to be a breach of player privacy and something that would incur the wrath of SE...

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If there is 3+ mobs, you're better off using Blizzard II in Dread trance than Ruin III!

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Maybe that's true dps wise, but with the huge pulls my friend does. I can't stand in the middle of his pack of 15 mobs to aoe without eating 5 aoes (and promptly dying). Rather do my ruin 3 safely and finish with deathflare. Still do up to 3500 dps on aoe pulls.

I will Miasma 2 and Blizzard 2 after a while to blow up leftover mobs. Cause not using more than 1 aether stack (of 3) per pack.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimateSeph

OP complains about bad dps and claims they can pick up any class and maximize its potential, yet buys Thordan EX carries. Seems legit -_-

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This^^

You forgot to add:
Calls everybody who disagrees with them a "Troll" despite the fact proven their claims to be contraticdionary at best.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

ITT: A bad DPS tries to call out other bad DPS while remaining woefully unaware of the hypocrisy.

Nothing new on the forums.

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This.

Move along people, nothing relevant to see here.

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Originally Posted by Shyle

As far as dungeons go, a good reason is that those who are already geared, but are grinding dungeons for ESO for maybe an alt or whatever reason, just go in, and do the bare minimum because thta's all that's required in basic lv. 60 dungeons. It's not like they're hard and require a huge amount of effort, just basic knowledge and basic rotations will get you through just fine. Even in Alex and Ark, people could do the basic necessities.

ALso, arguing about dps in 4 man dungeons is just stupid unless they're just auto attacking *only* or is afk. The dungeons can almost be 2 manned now.

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Gotta say I disagree with the mentality. However, it is true that it is likely a prevalent mentality in a lot of players. It's pretty sad that the game promotes this.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Maybe that's true dps wise, but with the huge pulls my friend does. I can't stand in the middle of his pack of 15 mobs to aoe without eating 5 aoes (and promptly dying). Rather do my ruin 3 safely and finish with deathflare. Still do up to 3500 dps on aoe pulls.

I will Miasma 2 and Blizzard 2 after a while to blow up leftover mobs. Cause not using more than 1 aether stack (of 3) per pack.

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If there is a lot of AoE, then consider using Tri-Bind (only on groups of 5+, otherwise Ruin III will be better DPS). Also note, at 5 mobs, there won't be a significant difference between the two, but as more mobs are added the difference obviously grows.

I'd recommend getting in for Blizz II though, usually you can place yourself in range without having to worry too much about AoEs

plus every1 has a bad day ,and then u are the worst dps on the world....or everything align and u crit all your opener and are the best...sometimes luck is a factor in dps.

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Originally Posted by lawlHT

You are bad at this game and the fact that it was shown in a topic complaining about other people's performance makes it so much sweeter

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You know, one thing I wish I could implement is a compassion patch to the brains of all players so that they can understand that the only way to be 'bad' at this game is to play it, but not enjoy it.

Now, this is not a comment on Pinkie_Pie and their ability to play, as I don't know the player and have no idea how they play; however, something that a lot of self professed 'good' players need to understand and remember is that in this game, just like any other, players who are good enough to progress through the main story, are good enough that you can stop disparaging their ability. It doesn't matter how their dps numbers compare to yours. It doesn't matter if you're stellar and they are doing about half your number. It really, really doesn't matter. What matters is are they enjoying the game, playing with friends and progressing to their satisfaction?

If you can't change gears and coexist with players like this, then you need to adjust yourself, because the majority of players in this, and any other game are players who are good enough to complete the primary content of the game and have fun with their friends. I don't know of any other measure of success in an MMORPG that counts more than completing primary content and enjoying the game with friends.

Well that was a most excellent read, I haven't seen someone get owned as hard as the OP since Ronda Rousey took a kick to the face. Brilliant.

Here is the knockout in slow mo' for anyone that missed it

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

You know what, I'm done. You guys want to twist my words, use dps logs against me and call me a troll, whatever, i'm done, to the people who agreed with me. thank you, we all see those type of people in like the void ark and crystal tower and so on, to the people that kept attacking me or tried to be passive aggressive towards me.

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Nothing wrong with tapping out man, especially when you've been schooled.

I don't agree with the OP's attitude or "wording".. But the issues he's pointing out are real. I'm gonna point out a few things I read in the "general context" of this forum thread and what their counter points are.

It's funny how people get so angry at the people who try hard and expect everyone else to try hard (A.k.a. elitists or jerks). When the exact opposite in the spectrum of try hard is as aggravating for different reasons. An elitist flaunting his e-peen is upsetting and rude (even if I'm not the target of their attacks, which is rarely the case). But also an ignorant-not-even-gonna-try "jerk" who doesn't even accept constructive criticism is just as upsetting.

"I pay my sub so I play how I want!" Sure, but I also pay the same sub. It's not like you're the only one paying or you're paying more. I also pay the VERY same sub and I expect to enjoy my time. If you wanna "play how you want" do it on your own account... Not in a dungeon with 4 others. But when you craft or undersize things or just in the open world. But don't drag me into your ignorance because you pay the very same sub I pay. You paying a sub doesn't give you a right to "suck" and drag others down just as much as it doesn't give that top-tier raider to pull his elitist attitude towards anyone because his DPS is twice that of the rest of the party combined. But come on, when 1 guy does TWICE the DPS of one other DPS + tank + healer? Or even worse.... The TANK pulling off the DPS of the 2 other DPS + healer combined?.. We have a serious issue here.

Luck doesn't factor 1200 DPS. RNG from crits and procs may contribute 100 DPS on a 3 minute dummy parse. You'll do 1650 instead of 1600 in optimal rotation and BiS on BLM, not 2600... For example. There is a reason why people ask for longer and/or multiple parses.. It's so RNG is "normalized".

Also, we all have bad days. We all can come back from work with steam popping out of our heads in anger. We all come home to worse tension at home than at work. We all have "family" issues, etc. etc. But really, if you expect to go into an instance and literally get carried, you shouldn't be playing. Trust me when I say this, I have more bad days than good ones... So often that I actually count the good days per month. I don't use that excuse to get carried. On the contrary, I vent through the game. And people who can't pull their own weight just make it worse. Luckily I rarely queue alone and it only takes 2 votes to kick for AFK, which let's be honest, you gotta be AFK if you're doing sub-600. :)

The mentality of: "Who cares, dungeons can be 2 manned anyways!" should really go out t he window. It is just unfair to the people "2 manning" the dungeon while you have one hand in your pants and the other on the beer bottle while watching netflix. If I want to two man a dungeon, I will literally do that. All it takes is ask a friend and literally 2 man content (either by undersizing or queuing with friends and have them leave instance). But if I want to do an under 25 minute dungeon, I do not expect someone with your mentality to go in and semi-AFK to make it 35+ and end up getting free esoterics or exp from my effort and time. I also play 2 characters and I do not want to spend whatever's left of my (already bad) day on (bad) expert roulette runs.

There is really no excuse ever to do sub 600 as a DPS (and probably a tank) class. You REALLY have to go out of your way to do some of the bad numbers those DPS on DF/PF do. Specially when we're not talking "optimal" DPS, but passably decent. Optimal DPS requires full understanding of the class, game mechanics (server ticks, latency handling, etc.) AND full knowledge of the encounters. But we're not asking for that in a Pharos Sirus HM, we're asking you to actually press your buttons. Which takes us to the next major point:

"The game not teaching people how to do their jobs" is also a very bad excuse. Do you expect it to hand you a manual with video guides of how to use your job and adapt to encounters? Where is the fun in that? That's YOUR job, not SE's. The game already does a pretty darned good job at teaching you the jobs and classes. It's almost holding your hand through your job entirely. Just look at the following things that the game already does:

1- The game doesn't throw a lot of skills at you at once, but the opposite... You literally start with 1 skill to spam (even arcanists can't summon their pets at level 1 because that's considered another ability), and the second level gives you your second ability with a pop-up help window to teach you how to use it. Whither it gives a buff (BRD and BLM), or if it combos (all melees and tanks) or whatever.

2- The game gives you 1 ability or trait every 2 levels. At level 50 you end up with 22 abilities, INCLUDING situational and dead weight ones.

3- The class and job quests give you a hint of your role and concepts behind abilities, which also happen every 5 levels. Your basic rotation is literally handed to you with ample time to learn and incorporate them.

4- Every time an ability should be used, it lights up for you. This is not just for combos, but also for procs.

5- The game requires you to play multiple classes so you end up learning multiple roles or concepts.

6- The tooltips are pretty dang detailed and easy to read. Yes there are the odd ones that have localization issues (Ninja had a flank bonus on Dancing Edge which didn't exist for example and Enochian had a pretty confusing description at first) but those get fixed fast. And that 1 ability you understood wrong won't be why you're missing over 700 DPS from the one right next to you.

7- Rotations aren't overly complicated. Outside of the openers, it's basically combo your skills, keep up buffs/debuffs and pop CDs as they come back up.

Yes it's true it doesn't apply to all jobs (Ahem LNC and Impulse drive spam for 20 levels), but come on. Stop with the "spoon-feed-me-my-rotation-and-gear" attitude. But come on, all that's left is a voice in game telling you which skill should be up next.

Now let's look at why "you have to go out of your way" to do that low DPS:

- Auto attacks are literally 25%+ of anyone that auto attack's DPS in optimal rotations. So a monk at 1500 DPS would have done 400+ worth of DPS just auto attacking.

- SMN's pet (garuda) does about 30% of its single target DPS, so if you do 1k DPS (which is barely "not bad" level), you can do 300 at least just by having your pet on sic.

- In AoE situations: Every job (with the exception of MNK and SMN) can literally spam 1 button for "decent" AoE DPS. NIN has Death Blossom, DRG has Ring of Thorns (Not optimal but wider range) and Doom Spike (if you can hit everything), WAR has Overpower, BRD has Quick knoc, so on.

You see, the problem here is not people can't learn overly complicated rotations, it's more about people not bothering to use obviously better abilities. Why spam blizzard 1 and drop thunder entirely when obviously Fire hits MUCH MUCH harder than Blizzard? How can you do 200 DPS when all you need is to auto attack + do your 1 > 2 > 3 combo to pass the 650 DPS mark. What's so hard from pressing the button that lights up after you used an ability?

I am not even expecting you to try hard... After all, it's only expert roulette. I don't expect you to pop potions and food and wear BiS.. Heck, I use my least geared DPS classes, being BRD (192) and MCH(190), when I feel like I don't wanna give it my all. I still end up with a passable over 1k DPS on bosses and over 1600 on packs. But come on, when I queue as a healer and find that the two DPS are below me and my tank on both packs and bosses? All WHILE I'm busy healing their a$$es out because they don't even bother getting out of red circles? This is far beyond ignorance and #gitgud.

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If there is a lot of AoE, then consider using Tri-Bind (only on groups of 5+, otherwise Ruin III will be better DPS).

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Must be the only skill I didn't even put on my bar, and not gonna start.

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I'd recommend getting in for Blizz II though, usually you can place yourself in range without having to worry too much about AoEs

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Sure, for that pull right after Minotaur boss in Fractal, or when 3-4 mobs are left over and I used my stacks. But when the pull is 'new' and at near full HP? Nope. They aoe everything everywhere. I'd lose way more dps avoiding their aoes than ignoring the tactics entirely.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

- In AoE situations: Every job (with the exception of MNK and SMN) can literally spam 1 button for "decent" AoE DPS. NIN has Death Blossom, DRG has Ring of Thorns (Not optimal but wider range) and Doom Spike (if you can hit everything), WAR has Overpower, BRD has Quick knoc, so on..

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Except PLD as well, unless you count 250 potency every 25 seconds as "decent." I can't blame you though, most people forget PLD even exists -_-

Side note: I figured you were just talking about DPS jobs but I saw WAR in that list

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Must be the only skill I didn't even put on my bar, and not gonna start.



Sure, for that pull right after Minotaur boss in Fractal, or when 3-4 mobs are left over and I used my stacks. But when the pull is 'new' and at near full HP? Nope. They aoe everything everywhere. I'd lose way more dps avoiding their aoes than ignoring the tactics entirely.

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Actually Bliz2 has a decent range to it. What I personally do is stand at the back of one of the baddies' hit boxes and cast it. As long as I'm hitting 3 or more, I'm doing more DPS than Ruin 3 on a single target. Yes, it's not the optimal hit-all-targets-with-blizzard-ii, but it's still better than doing Ruin 3 on 1 target. ^^

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Originally Posted by Ironos

Except PLD as well, unless you count 250 potency every 25 seconds as "decent." I can't blame you though, most people forget PLD even exists -_-

Side note: I figured you were just talking about DPS jobs but I saw WAR in that list

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Pfft, WAR is a DPS that comes with a tanking option.. we all know that. Lol!

Also PLD's 500 potency "flash" is "decent" aggro. It's still 1 button press.

My point is, all jobs, aside from loladin (sadly might I add), is capable of "easily" dishing out DPS. There is no excuse to do abysmally low DPS. I'm not asking you to dish out 3500 AoE DPS. But I also don't want to see you doing 650 in AoE as a goon. Heck, even as PLD, if you flash just enough to have aggro on everything and then go down to the VERY easy 1, 2, 3 combo you'll probably pop 500-600 DPS lol.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

You know, one thing I wish I could implement is a compassion patch to the brains of all players so that they can understand that the only way to be 'bad' at this game is to play it, but not enjoy it.

Now, this is not a comment on Pinkie_Pie and their ability to play, as I don't know the player and have no idea how they play; however, something that a lot of self professed 'good' players need to understand and remember is that in this game, just like any other, players who are good enough to progress through the main story, are good enough that you can stop disparaging their ability. It doesn't matter how their dps numbers compare to yours. It doesn't matter if you're stellar and they are doing about half your number. It really, really doesn't matter. What matters is are they enjoying the game, playing with friends and progressing to their satisfaction?

If you can't change gears and coexist with players like this, then you need to adjust yourself, because the majority of players in this, and any other game are players who are good enough to complete the primary content of the game and have fun with their friends. I don't know of any other measure of success in an MMORPG that counts more than completing primary content and enjoying the game with friends.

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That's all sunshine and rainbows, but people really ought to have some level of accountability. As a pretty decent DPS healer, I've carried tons of tanks and DPS through various roulettes, and I'm ok with that. The way I see it, most players don't roll out of bed and say, "Today, I feel like playing FFXIV and performing my role at 50% capacity." If they're sucking hard, they probably don't know the area, don't know their job well, or just don't care, and nothing I do will improve them in the ~25 minutes I'll be around them. Dungeons are ultimately pass/fail, and even with shoddy randoms and ok gear, most dungeons can be reliably passed as long as someone knows and shares relevant mechanics.

It's the "Cast times are for the birds," BRD/MCH, "I don't feel like managing MP," DRK, or even, as I saw on Reddit today, a tank that, when appealed to to utilize more defensive CD's in the future, replies only: "...nah," that frustrate me. Players with no sense of accountability or acknowledgement that the experience of the 3 other party members is just as important as their own. It's unabashed laziness at the expense of others, and, despite the risk of sounding dramatic, I think that's really uncool. Take all the time you need to be bad, practice rotations, learn mechanics and how those mechanics affect your rotation, position poorly, eat avoidable AoE's, that all happens and is just part of playing the game. To look at a button that objectively causes you to deal more damage and decide not to use it, however, is making an active decision to detrimentally affect your performance at the expense of everyone else in your group, and is inconsiderate to everyone involved. That's not a good attitude to support with "Well, they're just enjoying the game, so I don't mind if they waste my time."

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Must be the only skill I didn't even put on my bar, and not gonna start.



Sure, for that pull right after Minotaur boss in Fractal, or when 3-4 mobs are left over and I used my stacks. But when the pull is 'new' and at near full HP? Nope. They aoe everything everywhere. I'd lose way more dps avoiding their aoes than ignoring the tactics entirely.

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Of course you can play how you want, was just giving tips is all. I do find there are a few pulls where I do not run in to Blizzard II, and I use Tri-Bind on them. However, 90% of the aoe pulls are fine for you to run in and blizzard.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

To look at a button that objectively causes you to deal more damage and decide not to use it, however, is making an active decision to detrimentally affect your performance at the expense of everyone else in your group, and is inconsiderate to everyone involved. That's not a good attitude to support with "Well, they're just enjoying the game, so I don't mind if they waste my time."

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The question now would be: Where do you draw the line?

For example, let's say a tank could, without causing problems, drop tank stance in a fight, for example because he's well equipped and has established aggro. He doesn't do so however because he doesn't feel comfortable with it. Acceptable, yes or no?
Then let's go a step further: A tank has enough health to survive the local tank buster just from the left side gear. Yet he's wearing Vit accessories. Acceptable, yes or no?
And then a step further: A player plays a Paladin even though Warriors and Dark Knights are currently better. Acceptable, yes or no?
And just to make it really ridiculous: A tank has two pair of gloves, one with crit and one with parry, otherwise identical. He uses the one with parry because he prefers the look. Acceptable, yes or no?
Or let's take a DPS example: A DPS has three esoteric accessories but no esoteric weapon. Acceptable, yes or no?

The underlying question here is: To what degree are you allowed to make active decisions that detrimentally affect your performance? It's especially interesting considering the current "customization" debate, because it's highly relevant.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

The question now would be: Where do you draw the line?

For example, let's say a tank could, without causing problems, drop tank stance in a fight, for example because he's well equipped and has established aggro. He doesn't do so however because he doesn't feel comfortable with it. Acceptable, yes or no? Then let's go a step further: A tank has enough health to survive the local tank buster just from the left side gear. Yet he's wearing Vit accessories. Acceptable, yes or no?
And then a step further: A player plays a Paladin even though Warriors and Dark Knights are currently better. Acceptable, yes or no?
And just to make it really ridiculous: A tank has two pair of gloves, one with crit and one with parry, otherwise identical. He uses the one with parry because he prefers the look. Acceptable, yes or no?
Or let's take a DPS example: A DPS has three esoteric accessories but no esoteric weapon. Acceptable, yes or no?

The underlying question here is: To what degree are you allowed to make active decisions that detrimentally affect your performance? It's especially interesting considering the current "customization" debate, because it's highly relevant.

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I started a write up, but I felt like I was arguing in circles. I think that the point you bring up lines up with the point of the person you quoted. I am not sure if you are just arguing for the say-so or for semantics, or that you didn't read their post fully?

As for your question, I don't think anyone should make decisions that detrimentally affect your performance. However, everything is "allowed". The only way to curb this behavior is by mechanics that don't let you progress (Steps of Faith, but then nerfed?) or Peer responses (no quoting parsers plox). So basically, everything we can do to curb behavior to what we want is prevented, and that is why we have players playing horribly.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

(Steps of Faith, but then nerfed?)

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That fight still has groups that can't clear it for one reason or another.

More players never use heavy thrust or hot shot than do.

I can only guess that people just hit skills that light up like the combos and ignore all dots buffs or cooldowns >__<

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Originally Posted by Zojha

The question now would be: Where do you draw the line?
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It'd vary from people to people, but the line has to be somewhere. In the end, no one should be compromising the party or intentionally impeding the progress, esp out of spite or laziness (which then leads me to ask why are you going play a game lazily?)

I said it before, my personal expectaitons is taht people have a general grasp of their class given the circumstances; a monk should not be regularly dropping GL (or rarely going above 1 stack, if they even get one), a BLM should know that astral fire boosts fire damage and does more than blizzard spamming, etc etc. These are things that the game throws at you as early as level 4.

There have been times where I did more dPS than the tank dPS and whm combined.

I didn't complain because it's a dungeon no wipes, even by myself the dungeon moves along like it would've for a party of ilvl150s that know what their doing. Cuz I'm severely overgeared for the content. Don't let things stress you out that really shouldn't. Give advice, if they don't listen or question themselves just move on their mentality is bad and that needs to be fixed first.

You still give them tips, only be subtle about it so they don't report you to the hurt feeling police.
Ex. 130 x 20 is higher potency than 180 x 1.

Ignorance of job performance a mass hysteria. Just try to recall, how many players you've run into can you honestly say knows how to play their job? Most of them will just make excuses or just be straight up hostile before they even consider they don't know what they are doing.

What this game needs to provide the player is a perspective.

I feel a good way to help this situation is host videos on official youtube channel, submitted by players, and approved by devs. Of some of the most epic performances of battles. If possible, with commentator. Maybe once a month.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It'd vary from people to people, but the line has to be somewhere.

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That much is for sure. But players, especially better players, are prone to set the standards unrealistically. Play a few PvP games, get yourself ranked and then look at where you stand relative to others. If you are what people like to consider "midcore" in this game, chances are you are actually ranked in the top 20% consistently.

That aside, players play "lazily" (I don't think that's the proper word for WM/GBless BRD/MCH) for one simple reason: It provides more enjoyment to that person. Thus, the question becomes:"At what point does the enjoyment gained by the person outweigh the enjoyment gained by the group?"

It's not as clear cut as Kaurie likes to believe. If there's a detrimental performance choice that greatly improves your enjoyment but doesn't impede the enjoyment of others proportionally, you definitely "should" make it.

Remember when we used to beat T5 in full Darklight and Relic +1? That wasn't dps, that was knowing the mechanics.

While I have little experience in Alexander Savage (recently cleared A1S finally, but have it on farm now), I don't know what DPS is required for the other floors outside of what I read, so I guess DPS COULD be a thing there. But outside of that, I mean, come on...

It's so bad that if a PLD can't do 700+, then he's a bad PLD? How? He mitigated all tank busters AND kept hate while in Sword Oath for a bit. I just don't understand it.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That much is for sure. But players, especially better players, are prone to set the standards unrealistically. Play a few PvP games, get yourself ranked and then look at where you stand relative to others. If you are what people like to consider "midcore" in this game, chances are you are actually ranked in the top 20% consistently.

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I've been there, and that's a separate problem altogether, and shouldn't be taken into perspective for all intents and purposes

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That aside, players play "lazily" (I don't think that's the proper word for WM/GBless BRD/MCH) for one simple reason: It provides more enjoyment to that person. Thus, the question becomes:"At what point does the enjoyment gained by the person outweigh the enjoyment gained by the group?"

It's not as clear cut as Kaurie likes to believe. If there's a detrimental performance choice that greatly improves your enjoyment but doesn't impede the enjoyment of others proportionally, you definitely "should" make it.

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GB and WM only amounts to roughly 10-15% damage increase assuming everything is done properly. Even if you opt out to use it, it shouldn't dramatically slow down a dungeon run by 7+minutes minutes, let alone do sub 400 dps (considering I can puill just above 450 on my BRD just spamming heavy shot with WM, which is weaker than if you did it without WM). If it is, then again, you have bigger underlying issues thats more than just not using WM/GB.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That aside, players play "lazily" (I don't think that's the proper word for WM/GBless BRD/MCH) for one simple reason: It provides more enjoyment to that person. Thus, the question becomes:"At what point does the enjoyment gained by the person outweigh the enjoyment gained by the group?"

It's not as clear cut as Kaurie likes to believe. If there's a detrimental performance choice that greatly improves your enjoyment but doesn't impede the enjoyment of others proportionally, you definitely "should" make it.

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Not talking about BRDs and MCH who do not use barrel and minuet, I already defended that point in an earlier post. I am talking about players who deliberately play worse, because they are lazy. (To clarify, this does not mean that all players who play worse are lazy) For example, A DPS who literally only uses auto-attacks.

I also do not really understand why you are attempting to defend poor play. Yes, having fun is a huge part of the game, but when you are in a team game and you underperform you are hurting your team. Think of it like a sports game, you could join a team and maybe a) you are a bad player, but you're out there having fun and trying, b) you're probably an OK player but who cares if you win, so you just dick around on your cell phone and c) you are an awesome player who tries their best. I am currently talking about people B, they are the problem. Group A is not. I hope that helps clear it up?

That said, people in Group A could learn to play better, and I feel that Square Enix does a poor job of encouraging this.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

As someone who only plays a dps job I'll be the first to admit that... sometimes I just dong give a **** about how much damage I deal after running the same content over and over and over and over and over and over again.

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Hahaha... I can relate. On my third Diadem run within the same day, all I spammed was the Armor Crush combo on my NIN. Heck, I even didn't bother with Trick Attack at times. But that don't mean I don't know my job.

In some cases, we can't always get maximum DPS. As a NIN, if there's no WAR or other NIN, I can barely get an Aeolian Edge combo in because of Dancing Edge, Shadow Fang, Mutilate, and Armor Crush, without one of those falling. If I get an Aeolian Edge in there, I use it with Blood for Blood and Duality. Within those two seconds, I lost a dot and must reply the entire combo.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Pfft, WAR is a DPS that comes with a tanking option.. we all know that. Lol!

Also PLD's 500 potency "flash" is "decent" aggro. It's still 1 button press.

My point is, all jobs, aside from loladin (sadly might I add), is capable of "easily" dishing out DPS. There is no excuse to do abysmally low DPS. I'm not asking you to dish out 3500 AoE DPS. But I also don't want to see you doing 650 in AoE as a goon. Heck, even as PLD, if you flash just enough to have aggro on everything and then go down to the VERY easy 1, 2, 3 combo you'll probably pop 500-600 DPS lol.

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Oh, I thought you meant actual damage. Not that pretend damage that flash makes the enemies think they take. I wasn't disputing PLD's dps in general (though still lacking), just the claim of "literally" every class pressing one button for decent AoE DPS, save for MNK and SMN.

Using an Addon, like the DPSmeter is against the User Agreement, and if you openly admit that you use one, be aware you can get a permaban.

As someone who initially failed the reading check on Fire3/Bliz3: that "and" instead of the "or" I was expecting; I have biased, though incorrect option of blm tooltips being straight forward.

That said, can anyone point to me where in game I can find what the potency modifiers are on AF1-3, it really bothers me that so far I haven't been able to find them. I found them online a month and a half ago, at that time I thought AF3 was *1.5 instead of *1.875. This doesn't really effect my rotation, but it would be nice if the game would tell me what they were like it does for Heavy Thrust and Greece Lightening.

P.s. I am mortified by how bad I was when I started this game.

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Actually Bliz2 has a decent range to it.

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I was quoting about Tri-Bind, the most useless Arcanist skill ever. If it has pvp uses I'll never know, I don't pvp.

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Originally Posted by Ironos

Oh, I thought you meant actual damage. Not that pretend damage that flash makes the enemies think they take. I wasn't disputing PLD's dps in general (though still lacking), just the claim of "literally" every class pressing one button for decent AoE DPS, save for MNK and SMN.

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Well, what I basically was trying to point out is the lack of "complexity" needed to do "decent performance". I excluded MNK and SMN because their AoE happens to be a "combo" of sorts and not a button spam. Considering the use of certain abilities and CDs (Bane+Painflare, PB, AoE being every third hit). I was not disputing or "teaching" AoE DPS though. I am just pointing out the simplicity.

All I'm saying is: Contrary to optimal DPS, it doesn't require max focus to do decent DPS, but rather pressing buttons in order will get you somewhere. I tell you, I have my "lazy days", but I end up with over 1k on single target. How? Muscle memory. As a BLM, if I'm not focused, you WILL see Enochian drop early... More than I'd like even. But instead of just standing there and staring at the monitor, I just turn to your ol' friend, spam-Fire-1-until-out-of-MP. Which brings me to another point:

Some classes got more complex in 3.x, true, but come on, just revert to your old lv50 rotation and you'll still pass 1k. Don't tell me that almost a year, or in some cases, 2, of playing the same job didn't engrave the old rotations into your muscle memory now. :(

Yes, it is ignorant to assume everyone played since beta. But all it takes is a few sessions of a few minutes on a dummy over a few days, give or take, for said rotations to be pure muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

That's all sunshine and rainbows, but people really ought to have some level of accountability.

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I quite agree, people who are jerks to others need to be held accountable for their actions. Incidentally, people who are not as good at a game as you are not being jerks, nor are people who don't treat the game as seriously as you do. But if you react to them in an unreasonable, negative manner, prepare to be held accountable.

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To look at a button that objectively causes you to deal more damage and decide not to use it, however, is making an active decision to detrimentally affect your performance at the expense of everyone else in your group, and is inconsiderate to everyone involved. That's not a good attitude to support with "Well, they're just enjoying the game, so I don't mind if they waste my time."

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You are making a presumptive judgement about another player's skill and knowledge and assigning a deliberate and negative motivation to their actions. You are also presuming that everyone who *plays* this *game* takes it as seriously as you do. Compassion is highly underrated in todays gamer population.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I quite agree, people who are jerks to others need to be held accountable for theirvactions. Incidentally, people who are not as good at a game as you are not being jerks, nor are people who don't treat the game as seriously as you do. But if you react to them in an unreasonable, negative manner, prepare to be held accountable.


You are making a presumptive judgement about another player's skill and knowledge and assigning a deliberate and negative motivation to their actions. You are also presuming that everyone who *plays* this *game* takes it as seriously as you do. Compassion is highly underrated in todays gamer population.

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Kosmos' I find myself half agreeing with you all the time! In this case, yes, people need to be respectful of each other. However, part of that respect is putting in your appropriate effort when in a team situation. As I alluded to a few posts back, it would be disrespectful to your sports team if you were to dick around on a cell phone while they are all trying their hardest to win. The same goes here, if you are watching netflix and just auto-attacking while you do your roulettes, you're hurting your team.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

I was quoting about Tri-Bind, the most useless Arcanist skill ever. If it has pvp uses I'll never know, I don't pvp.

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Feel free to not use tri-bind, but it is a DPS increase over Ruin III on 5+ mobs. If you don't want to use it, that's your perogative.

You also did mention something about not using blizzard II so you can avoid AoEs.

People just don't care. They think they are entitled to get carried by better players.

Had a Windbite spamming Bard in a dungeon today. Might have been a bot, but I wouldn't put it past this playerbase.

Doesn't help that this community is totally anti-skill either.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Kosmos' I find myself half agreeing with you all the time! In this case, yes, people need to be respectful of each other. However, part of that respect is putting in your appropriate effort when in a team situation. As I alluded to a few posts back, it would be disrespectful to your sports team if you were to dick around on a cell phone while they are all trying their hardest to win. The same goes here, if you are watching netflix and just auto-attacking while you do your roulettes, you're hurting your team.



Feel free to not use tri-bind, but it is a DPS increase over Ruin III on 5+ mobs. If you don't want to use it, that's your perogative.

You also did mention something about not using blizzard II so you can avoid AoEs.

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Let's not suggest people be bad and use tri-bind. That's like telling lazy bards that it's perfectly fine to use wide volley instead of qiuck nock. There's not reason to use a higher cost, lower potency move when there's another move (blizzard II) with higher potency, lower cost, exactly the same additional effects and larger AoE area. Being in melee range should never be an excuse not to use an attack.