Warrior Rework to Balance the job

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Originally Posted by aiqa

Other jobs are not similar. PLD healing+mitigation is closer to GNB than WAR is to PLD.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

And sure, PLD should be toned down a bit too. In particular Divine Veil is far to strong.

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This data takes overhealing in account, I believe?
As for the "performance", I meant the capability of dealing with dungeons packs without the help of healers since that was the current topic.

PLD fantasy is to have strong mitigations, heals and protection. Your remark encapsulates exactly what I criticized about the nerf mentality.
No one is allowed to step out of the lines and then we'll complain how everything is similar.

You can find my other posts to see if I care about dungeon balance and see how I offered solutions that would actually fix the core issue.
These stances aren't incompatible, you can have something overpowered and balanced. I know it's a shocker.

Bloodwhetting has fantastic healing capabilities but must have a high number of targets. This scenario can only be found in dungeons, maps and fates and doesn't automatically ensure the completion of these content.

Focusing on nerfing Bloodwhetting won't make them [the dungeons] more engaging

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Originally Posted by Terhix

Sure, that is a true statement.

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Exactly, let's focus on making dungeons engaging instead of tweaking individual abilities. Slowing down cars to handle a damaged road instead of fixing the road itself isn't the solution.
We'll think about climate change, world hunger and other hyperbolic statement outside of XIV's forums.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

These stances aren't incompatible, you can have something overpowered and balanced. I know it's a shocker.

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If it's overpowered then by definition it is not balanced:

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The terms “overpowered” (OP) and “underpowered” (UP) are used on game elements and mechanics that are too good or bad to describe a lack of game balance. (...)

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Bloodwhetting has fantastic healing capabilities but must have a high number of targets. This scenario can only be found in dungeons, maps and fates and doesn't automatically ensure the completion of these content.

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Bloodwhetting on single target is already twice the HPS (shield included) of Heart of Corundum or Holy Sheltron, and Warrior as a whole is the highest HPS tank in game on single target. Bloodwhetting absolutely does not need the multitarget component to be strong.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Exactly, let's focus on making dungeons engaging instead of tweaking individual abilities.

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Why "instead of"? What is it about nerfing bloodwhetting that would prevent making dungeons more engaging or doing any other change in the game? Did Yoshi P give a keynote in which he said that any changes to Bloodwhetting will make the dev team unable to make any further changes to the game, because if so I missed it.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

The majority of WAR players are happy, and this is well represented in the game.

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If you to to the WAR lounge on The Balance discord and they are posting cat pics, then WAR is in a good state.

Could you read the statement right after the quote you picked out?
Broken in one specific content and in a specific situation.

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Originally Posted by Terhix

Why "instead of"? What is it about nerfing bloodwhetting that would prevent making dungeons more engaging or doing any other change in the game?

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You have it backward:
"How nerfing Bloodwhetting would make dungeons more engaging?"

You can absolutely nerf Bloodwhetting but would that magically make healers more engaging?
Think about it, when Warrior is not under Bloodwhetting, do you see them going low?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

You have it backward:
"How nerfing Bloodwhetting would make dungeons more engaging?"

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Getting all tanks on somewhat level playing field absolutely does make designing engaging dungeons much more of an achievable goal. One tank being virtually indestructible in multitarget scenario severly limits the design space.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

You can absolutely nerf Bloodwhetting but would that magically make healers more engaging?

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When you spill milk at home do you also go "well, I could wipe it off, but will that magically buy me new milk?"

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Originally Posted by Terhix

Getting all tanks on somewhat level playing field absolutely does make designing engaging dungeons much more of an achievable goal. One tank being virtually indestructible in multitarget scenario severly limits the design space.

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All tanks are virtually indestructible in dungeon packs, Dark Knight requires more work but you can pull it off, Warrior simply requires less work.
If you nerf Bloodwhetting, Warrior will still be virtually unkillable and Healers will barely make use of their AoE healing kit.

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Originally Posted by Terhix

When you spill milk at home do you also go "well, I could wipe it off, but will that magically buy me new milk?"

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Obviously no, because those are two distinct problems: The mess you need to clean and your lack of milk.
Just like Bloodwhetting and dungeon design, wether I wipe the milk or not I will not get new milk.

Since it's your analogy, hopefully you might better understand this way?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

This data takes overhealing in account, I believe?

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Overhealing is accounted for. That metric includes mitigation and actual healing, not overhealing.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Your remark encapsulates exactly what I criticized about the nerf mentality.
No one is allowed to step out of the lines and then we'll complain how everything is similar.

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That PLD theme doesn't have to include doing strong ogcd aoe healing. The theme would be fully intact if Divine Veil was a GCD ability. If PLD (or WAR) need stronger support/sustain for their themes, something else has to give. For PLD you can at least point towards its significantly lower single target dps, but WAR is also top 2 for single target dps.

All in all PLD is not nearly as big an issue as WAR. And the one ability from PLD that is a bit problematic is even worse on the WAR version.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Obviously no, because those are two distinct problems: The mess you need to clean and your lack of milk.
Just like Bloodwhetting and dungeon design, wether I wipe the milk or not I will not get new milk.

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Correct! And every time someone says we should fix problem A, you swoop in and say "but it won't fix problem B!" Nobody disagrees with you about that. But for some reason you seem to be adamant that because fixing problem A does not fix problem B we should therefore not fix problem A. If A and B are disjoint problems and we not only know how to fix A, but fixing A is actually trivial, we should do that whether or not it fixes B.

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Originally Posted by aiqa

All in all PLD is not nearly as big an issue as WAR. And the one ability from PLD that is a bit problematic is even worse on the WAR version.

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PLD should be a bigger concern than WAR because it exactly enable no-healers runs in much more content than the WAR.

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Originally Posted by Terhix

Correct! And every time someone says we should fix problem A, you swoop in and say "but it won't fix problem B!" Nobody disagrees with you about that. But for some reason you seem to be adamant that because fixing problem A does not fix problem B we should therefore not fix problem A. If A and B are disjoint problems and we not only know how to fix A, but fixing A is actually trivial, we should do that whether or not it fixes B.

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You forget a lot of cases:
-Concern A is not a problem (You're about to run out of milk but will need to get new sooner)
-Concern A can't be solved (Milk expired)
-Concern A can be solved but it's unnecessary. (Milk dropped outside)

And we circle back to this:
Is Bloodwhetting overpowered in dungeons? Yes.
Is it a problem? No, because it is only overpowered against multiple targets that only targets the tank.

Also, Concern A is the parent of Concern B. Your bike has a flat tire (A), you have no vehicle to go to the park (B). Fix Concern A, you fix Concern B.
Dungeons don't deal enough damage to the party (A), Warrior's bloodwhetting is overpowered in AoE situations where adds only targets the tank (B).
That's my point, as long as you don't fix A, more Bs will swoops in.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Also, Concern A is the parent of Concern B. Your bike has a flat tire (A), you have no vehicle to go to the park (B). Fix Concern A, you fix Concern B.
Dungeons don't deal enough damage to the party (A), Warrior's bloodwhetting is overpowered in AoE situations where adds only targets the tank (B).
That's my point, as long as you don't fix A, more Bs will swoops in.

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These are not equivalent scenarios as adding more party damage will not make Bloodwhetting not overpowered, nor is it the lack of party damage that makes Bloodwhetting overpowered. It's overpowered because its HPS on packs is an order of magnitude higher than any other ogcd ability of any other tank or, with enough enemies present, the entire kits of some of the other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Terhix

These are not equivalent scenarios as adding more party damage will not make Bloodwhetting not overpowered, nor is it the lack of party damage that makes Bloodwhetting overpowered. It's overpowered because its HPS on packs is an order of magnitude higher than any other ogcd ability of any other tank or, with enough enemies present, the entire kits of some of the other tanks.

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Indeed, Bloodwhetting will remain extremely powerful. But dungeons will be more engaging to healers.
More than 60% of the damage taken in dungeons are on the tank, during packs 99% is on the tank. Combine this with Warrior powerful self-healing and you have your problem.
That's our problem, the combination of both.

Spread the damage accross the party, you'll make Bloodwhetting less powerful and healing more engaging, all while keeping the Warrior fantasy. As a bonus, Dark Knight would greatly benefit from it.
I only need players to understand this, and I'll be satisfied.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

all while keeping the Warrior fantasy

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I can recommend you some single player games where you can go all out on that godmode fantasy, Pathfinder WOTR has some particularly good options. But it has no place in an MMO. And appealing to maintaining "warrior fantasies" does nothing in a conversation where the other side is arguing against that the consequences of that exact fantasy. Warriors can get another fantasy.

Oookay, this ai a lot of posts since last I was here...

Personally I don't see a huge problem with Divine Veil, it is only a shield and rarely outlast one raidwide. But moving away from the fixation on bloodwhetting, as we know, it's not the only insane heal WAR has. You're right that I do see WAR drop very low before and after bloodwhetting, then they benediction themselves again, rinse and repeat. It is thoroughly overpowered, if not actually broken, and yes I do maintain that in a trinity system any job that breaks that trinity is by definition broken. Further if, as we agree, dungeons serve both as casual content and a tutorial for extreme, savage and up, then it must be representative of what players will see in that content it serves as a tutorial for - it does not, will not and cannot until such time as both it and the jobs participating in it are balanced accordingly. Even WoW has recently recognised that a healthy tank/healer balance is necessary for a healthy trinity based MMO.

That said, I am more interested in fixing things, so lets return to dungeons and trials since bringing tank balance (even only in dungeons) alone will not fix dungeons. To that end, I have heard suggestions of reducing the number of mobs while giving them higher damage (including raidwide) and increasing the number of esuna and interrupt mechanics, someone else in another thread has suggested more environmental mechanics and having recently replayed City of Amdapor Hard I agree, those are cool and would be an improvement to dungeon design.

I don't see why we cannot both reduce the number of mobs in dungeons, give them more dps AND reduce the number of targets WAR can heal off at the same time. You, yourself, CKNovel have said that PLD would be the new overlong nail should WAR be clipped, PLD heals are a fixed potency per skill use - number of enemies does not factor in, GNB too as far as I can tell has it's heals independent of target count, why should WAR be the exception?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I only need players to understand this, and I'll be satisfied.

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That is perfectly clear and understandable. What it's not is a reason not to nerf Bloodwhetting.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

I don't see why we cannot both reduce the number of mobs in dungeons, give them more dps AND reduce the number of targets WAR can heal off at the same time. You, yourself, CKNovel have said that PLD would be the new overlong nail should WAR be clipped, PLD heals are a fixed potency per skill use - number of enemies does not factor in, GNB too as far as I can tell has it's heals independent of target count, why should WAR be the exception?

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Once damage redistribution is done, Warrior bloodwhetting will still have an overpowered state but it won't steal the show or matters that much.
Healer role will be more than holding a tank that can heal itself. The goal is to restore the trinity in dungeon

As long as we don't see Healers being barred from PF, there's no harm in keeping an overpowered tool. The trinity is pointless in dungeon with or without Bloodwhetting, so why not just keep it?
I'm also against the nerf mentality when a tool starts to become a strength that steps out of the line. Remember when Cover was strong? It made Paladin able to double invuln himself and an ally, but it ended up being removed.

After Bloodwhetting, what would be next?

It's been said a million times before (in this thread probably) that if one class is in a great spot but the others are suffering, the answer isn't to cut the legs off of the class that's thriving so it can crawl on the ground in misery with the rest of them.

Square needs to bring the other classes up to match the WAR and make them appealing alternatives.

If content is too easy and healers barely need to heal then make the content more difficult.

Dawntrail is already on the right track with this. They just need to bring all the other tanks up.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I'm also against the nerf mentality when a tool starts to become a strength that steps out of the line. Remember when Cover was strong? It made Paladin able to double invuln himself and an ally, but it ended up being removed.

After Bloodwhetting, what would be next?

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What would be next? I don't remember a time when cover and hallowed ground synergised, I do remember trying it once or twice because it seemed funny, I actually don't have a problem with it either - it makes for good tactical plays like invulning TB stacks or buying someone two free safe raises where they don't have to worry about the tank's HP.

I'm not one to go for mindless nerfing, in the same way that buffing everything to meet one OP factor leads to massive power spikes and forces commensurate damage spikes (that don't necessarily actually equate to difficulty), mindless nerfing leads to a spiral of everything being made weak and boring. There has to be moderation of both, we've agreed that the content doesn't work properly as is, in terms of job balance I believe DRK is overdue a damage buff to make up for it's comparative squish but equally in terms of it's staying power I think it's generally in the best spot. That's where I would set the tank balance personally while simultaneously improving content.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

What would be next? I don't remember a time when cover and hallowed ground synergised, I do remember trying it once or twice because it seemed funny, I actually don't have a problem with it either - it makes for good tactical plays like invulning TB stacks or buying someone two free safe raises where they don't have to worry about the tank's HP.

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Hallowed Ground stopped nullifying Covered damage only after Ultima Ex came out, iirc. Before that, I could have sworn it was customary for Paladins to HG-Cover their cotank through Freefall, resetting stacks while avoiding the need for swaps or messy repositioning. Been quite a while, though.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

It's been said a million times before (in this thread probably) that if one class is in a great spot but the others are suffering, the answer isn't to cut the legs off of the class that's thriving so it can crawl on the ground in misery with the rest of them.

Square needs to bring the other classes up to match the WAR and make them appealing alternatives.

If content is too easy and healers barely need to heal then make the content more difficult.

Dawntrail is already on the right track with this. They just need to bring all the other tanks up.

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It's been said even more often why that's a terrible idea, as you then have to bring all content up to the level of the then overpowered jobs in order to retain earlier degrees of potential skill expression, let alone challenge.

You are asking that we adjust EVERYTHING BUT ONE JOB, content, jobs, and sub-mechanics alike, instead of just the singular significant problem.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

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Dont you dare touch my WAR D:

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Originally Posted by Tunda

My principles are:
[LIST][*]ruining the job

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No thanks homie. Me WAR main, me smash rocks and people, me have fun. New abilities smash rocks and people even harder than last expac. Me like new abilities. Me happy. Me continue to have fun. Me no no want job to change. Me think you should play Picto if you want rotation diversity because me see you're BLM main and that job got bad change.

aaaaaand post quick reply

HEY WAR IS UNDERPOWERED!!!
PLD has ranged moves!? WTF where's WARs ranged combo this isn't balanced at all also wtf PLD has another raid mitigation!? Give WAR one too no one will pick WAR when PLD has two raid mits!!
I've noticed that SCH and AST both have raid buffs, buddy Tanks are also supports where's WARs raidbuffs!? Why would anyone take WAR when it does has no raid buffs!?!
What the hell! look at SAM and VPR they do so much more damage then WAR. WAR needs to do the same amount of damage as SAM otherwise no one would ever take WAR into content! Where the hell is the balance!?

I really don't want non-WAR mains coming in and trying to direct how WAR is played to be honest.

I love WAR, it's my hands down favorite job to play, and without it being how it is, and has been for almost ten years (braindead, sustain, unga bunga), I literally wouldn't be paying to play the game, or have my extra retainer slots, or buying all manner of goodies on the mogstation optional store.

WAR being simple is why I end up giving Square Enix a lot of money.

Honestly It would be funny if self sustain on warrior got completely destroyed just to see war mains go berserk on the forums.
Literally think it would be the end of the world for some people, it would be like Sam players seeing mch get buffed to do as much damage as them.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Honestly It would be funny if self sustain on warrior got completely destroyed just to see war mains go berserk on the forums.
Literally think it would be the end of the world for some people, it would be like Sam players seeing mch get buffed to do as much damage as them.

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Here's my prediction:
-People who played WAR for its easy sustain will move to PLD.
-People who played WAR because they liked it will keep playing WAR and not caring as 80% of the job's active sustains remains
-Healers will celebrate and have a placebo effect that it is effective, despite WAR still not dropping below 50%

To balance warrior even further

If warrior hp below 50% it should insta die as it is a skill issue

There's a whole lot of opinion having in this thread about why Bloodwhetting is overpowered in dungeons when the real test is clearly how they do in savage/ex content.

Oh, wait, this just in. Every tank is good and fine and they're all viable. Stop complaining about not having to heal a warrior in a dungeon and enjoy the glory of being able to do more damage.

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Originally Posted by VentiMocha

There's a whole lot of opinion having in this thread about why Bloodwhetting is overpowered in dungeons when the real test is clearly how they do in savage/ex content.

Oh, wait, this just in. Every tank is good and fine and they're all viable. Stop complaining about not having to heal a warrior in a dungeon and enjoy the glory of being able to do more damage.

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Oh yeah..the glory of spamming one damage spell... Tell me more how healers are supposed to be happy dps'ing with the most lobotomized dps kit possible in the entire game, without even mentioning their role being basically invalidated when they have a Warrior in dungeons.

If a WHM's holy stun never had any fall-off and they could just stun the mob pack forever I wouldn't feel very needed either.

Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting being op in dungeons isn't really arguable. It's only balanced in 8-man content

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Originally Posted by VentiMocha

There's a whole lot of opinion having in this thread about why Bloodwhetting is overpowered in dungeons when the real test is clearly how they do in savage/ex content.

Oh, wait, this just in. Every tank is good and fine and they're all viable. Stop complaining about not having to heal a warrior in a dungeon and enjoy the glory of being able to do more damage.

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In savage WAR out paces other tank in healing by nearly double. This isn't just equilibrium, bloodwhetting is strong self heal under raid buffs and if you do it with fell cleave spam. I think war is op in savage compared to other tanks but only because of holmgang having the lowest cd.

Also dungeons are a part of the game and should feel fun for all parties, if healers aren't having fun that's a problem that should be fix. Just cap bloodwhetting's aoe to like 3-4 mobs it would still be strong but if you want a full heal you'd need to use decimate at least twice.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I have a hot opinion.. Invulnerability skills are a clear sign for bad design jobs

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Agreed.

Invulns are "You don't wanna bother tanking this correctly" as a ability that for some reason has a diff timer for every class.; I cannot justify invulns because the idea that a capstone skill would vary so wildly. I could see a tank invuln as a tank LB if anything.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

In savage WAR out paces other tank in healing by nearly double. This isn't just equilibrium, bloodwhetting is strong self heal under raid buffs and if you do it with fell cleave spam. I think war is op in savage compared to other tanks but only because of holmgang having the lowest cd.

Also dungeons are a part of the game and should feel fun for all parties, if healers aren't having fun that's a problem that should be fix. Just cap bloodwhetting's aoe to like 3-4 mobs it would still be strong but if you want a full heal you'd need to use decimate at least twice.

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In savage, mitigation > healing.
Bloodwhetting is only 10% of WAR's healing but Shake it off is 30% of WAR's healing, Damnation is around 15%. Due to their regen nature, they overheal a lot.
Out of 50% of Warrior's self healing, 50% is overhealing.

Paladin has a lot of overhealing but way less than WAR, making its effective healing more valuable.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

In savage, mitigation > healing.
Bloodwhetting is only 10% of WAR's healing but Shake it off is 30% of WAR's healing, Damnation is around 15%. Due to their regen nature, they overheal a lot.
Out of 50% of Warrior's self healing, 50% is overhealing.

Paladin has a lot of overhealing but way less than WAR, making its effective healing more valuable.

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FFlogs healing statistics do not include overhealing. So if WAR is overhealing a lot now, it will pull ahead even more if incoming damage is ever increased.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

In savage, mitigation > healing.
Bloodwhetting is only 10% of WAR's healing but Shake it off is 30% of WAR's healing, Damnation is around 15%. Due to their regen nature, they overheal a lot.
Out of 50% of Warrior's self healing, 50% is overhealing.

Paladin has a lot of overhealing but way less than WAR, making its effective healing more valuable.

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Its already got fine mitigation the healing is the cherry on top, bloodwhetting has 10% damage resistance and a barrier as well as strong healing. People really undervalue the heal in raid content, yes its not as op as in dungeons but its still really strong even in raids thats less stress on the healers to do more healing so they can deal more damage and finish the raid faster. Healing is core to WAR damnation has made this pretty clear at this point the only thing I want changed with war is bloodwhetting to be capped in aoe and holmgang or the other invuns having more similar cds. I don't want all the self healing gone from WAR i just want it to be more reasonable for healers in other content.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

If a WHM's holy stun never had any fall-off and they could just stun the mob pack forever I wouldn't feel very needed either.

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Can I have this? Can I? Pretty please?

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Originally Posted by VentiMocha

There's a whole lot of opinion having in this thread about why Bloodwhetting is overpowered in dungeons when the real test is clearly how they do in savage/ex content.

Oh, wait, this just in. Every tank is good and fine and they're all viable. Stop complaining about not having to heal a warrior in a dungeon and enjoy the glory of being able to do more damage.

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WAR doesn't enable more damage in dungeons since the healing is all OGCD. All it does it bore the healer to death.

Fun is more important than setting an arbitrary DPS cap anyway.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

WAR doesn't enable more damage in dungeons since the healing is all OGCD. All it does it bore the healer to death.

Fun is more important than setting an arbitrary DPS cap anyway.

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Pretty much agree, Most healers will certainly not need to GCD heal a tank like Paladin or Gunbreaker (or even a good dark knight), Warrior on the other hand you dont even need any ogcd's so healers lose out on resource management

I find it funny that people will defend warrior by saying "it doesn't effect savage so its ok!" but the thing is most people are Casual players, a lot of people are going to be put off healing by Warrior, leveling in dungeons is miserable if you have a warrior because you only need to press Glare/broil you don't need to really pay attention or learn anything about healing, which is contrasted by content down the line being more punishing when you do actually need to heal.

I'm not a advocate against all non healer healing, I think it's fine to have some forms of self/target even group healing in some rare instances, But I think theirs a cap where certain jobs can be and to me warrior is a prime example of a job who breaks that cap by a mile just due to how blood whetting scales with each enemy, I want a healthy game for all content and part of that is removing blood whetting per enemy, making it so you only heal once regardless of the amount of enemies, fun thing is this doesn't effect raids either.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Its already got fine mitigation the healing is the cherry on top, bloodwhetting has 10% damage resistance and a barrier as well as strong healing. People really undervalue the heal in raid content, yes its not as op as in dungeons but its still really strong even in raids thats less stress on the healers to do more healing so they can deal more damage and finish the raid faster. Healing is core to WAR damnation has made this pretty clear at this point the only thing I want changed with war is bloodwhetting to be capped in aoe and holmgang or the other invuns having more similar cds. I don't want all the self healing gone from WAR i just want it to be more reasonable for healers in other content.

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The healing is good, I'm not saying it's bad. But it's clearly overrevaluated, it's good and comfort, not "really strong". It just shines in very rare spot where a boss auto attacks a lot which happens extremely rarely. Bosses rarely do sustained damage on tanks.
You can do the same thing you describe with so many other tools, Paladin passive sustain, other tank single CDs, Sage's Soteria...

The problem is that you think this is exclusive to the WAR while it's not, just because it can top itself against a worthless trash pack.
Even if you capped Bloodwhetting nothing would change. Dungeon damage is too low and Bloodwhetting single target heal will still amount to 13~20k per hit, that's still far enough to regen 40% of their max HP. Combine that with the rest of the kit and Warrior is still unkillable.

Nerfing Warrior is slowing down cars to preserve a damaged road instead of repairing that road. Dungeon aren't suited for the healers kit. You can never press Philosophia, Physis, Panhaima, Pneuma or Holos and you're still going to wipe the floor with that dungeon, even when healing a DRK.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

The problem is that you think this is exclusive to the WAR while it's not, just because it can top itself against a worthless trash pack.
Even if you capped Bloodwhetting nothing would change. Dungeon damage is too low and Bloodwhetting single target heal will still amount to 13~20k per hit, that's still far enough to regen 40% of their max HP. Combine that with the rest of the kit and Warrior is still unkillable.

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Nope I think PLD self healing on the sword combo is stupid and that aurora shouldn't have 2 stacks.
I never said this was a WAR exclusive problem, it's just that WAR is the most egregious.
Dungeon damage is something everyone argues about and can never find common ground on so I just don't talk about it. I simply think capping aoe bloodwhetting is the easiest way to make it less egregious, really this problem won't go away until the tank role is reworked to be more balanced around working with healers.
The trinity is beyond fucked and literally every role in this game needs reworks because there is zero synergy in anything that isn't an ultimate raid.

WAR is the most played Tank. It is the most purchased job boosted on mogstation and has the most self sustain for OGCD on a tank. The job is super balanced. Majority of players do not want a WAR rework.