The current state of the "MMORPG" FFXIV is unsustainable. Here's why

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

When you queue for a trial that requires all people who've gotten to the current end of the MSQ, late in the week when most people aren't running roulettes much because they've already capped tomes, then of course it's gonna take longer. Especially in the middle of the afternoon on a weekend, when people are likely to be out of the house running errands and doing other things.

And I've had it pop twice in roulette just this week, so it's not impossible. It's just unlikely.

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Its 8 players, if the game cant find 8 players for CURRENT CONTENT, im sorry but then the game just failed in that regard

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Its 8 players, if the game cant find 8 players for CURRENT CONTENT, im sorry but then the game just failed in that regard

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What are you even talking about, you can still queue up for current content and get people in (with not that long of a wait time, I may add). Are we just fibbing now for the sake of backing up our points?

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Its 8 players, if the game cant find 8 players for CURRENT CONTENT, im sorry but then the game just failed in that regard

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Yes, at 7am in the morning on a weekend when people are sleeping, during the tail end of a patch. It's always been like this. Always.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yes, at 7am in the morning on a weekend when people are sleeping, during the tail end of a patch. It's always been like this. Always.

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That's the only reason that matter. No matter the content type or where you are in the patch cycle, death hours are death hours. Frontline will pop in less than 3min for most of the day, but even that will give you 30min+ queue if you queue during death hours.

The posters you're responding are ignoring that fact in every single one of their reply. We can safely conclude they're not conducting the discussion in good faith, not even trying.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

What are you even talking about, you can still queue up for current content and get people in (with not that long of a wait time, I may add). Are we just fibbing now for the sake of backing up our points?

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Just now? You think?

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

The posters you're responding are ignoring that fact in every single one of their reply.

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You make wild assumptions and ignore facts in pretty much every post you make. Pot, meet kettle.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

You make wild assumptions and ignore facts in pretty much every post you make. Pot, meet kettle.

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Ohhh, look like I got a fan. :)

In case you missed it, post #116 on this thread. I would call that fact, relevant fact to the current discussion.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Just now? You think?

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I dont want to start accusing people of things I may not know, but my only backing of me calling this out is because I do actually play this game regularly....with 3 ENDGAME ALTS and I dont ever run into queuing issues for content I need. And even if I do, I just make a PF for it and happen to get like-minded people or folks whom want to do their good deed for the day. So these complaints feel more like lies to me.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yes, at 7am in the morning on a weekend when people are sleeping, during the tail end of a patch. It's always been like this. Always.

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I can queue up LFR in WoW at 2am and find 20 other people, and thats content people really much do once a week for gear.

All i hear is excuses for dead content

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Tiny? What? Balmung was a raiding server nearly back then lol. A ton of people were doing coil. Most FCs had multiple raid groups.

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Heres the thing thats important for you to understand, people were trying to raid, but werent raiders at all.

Even now, the amount of people that backlash over raid prep, getting gear outside raids, getting food buffs, potions and practicing their classes to fine tune it more is minimal, not only that people dont do anythign to their UIs to fine tune that either.

The amount of people that try to practice their jobs/classes and UI middle of raiding is way too much.

This is the issue, its the non raiders trying it, just because a lot of people who are non raiders did little to no raid prep was the biggest issue, its still an issue today.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

So these complaints feel more like lies to me.

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Because they are. It's just in this case it's more blatant then usual. #112 posted a picture as the evidence of the content being dead by queuing in death-hour, and despite multiple response including a counter screenshot in #116. But despite that they still make their talking point presented by #112 despite all the contrary.

In a way it mirror perfectly the fake new culture in real life politic :p

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Ah yes, the HW raids that even the developers admitted they overtuned, but it was the players' fault for not being good enough.

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Overtuned for non raiders yes, that is the issue.

And yes it was players not being good enough considering people still cleared it.

The raid was tuned under the premise people got better at the game.

There was still too many people who actually struggled playing the job changes in HW, never mind the content it self.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Funny, I made a thread exactly about that just 2 weeks ago, so in a way I actually agree with that. But you're missing my point here, I'm just pointing out the irony of the previous poster.

But trade blame all you want, call other casual and yourself hardcore if it makes you feel better. But at the end of the day a casual and a hardcore player are just players all the same. Unless you believe hardcore pay an additional tax that make them a more valuable customers? At the end of the day numbers is what matter. The Alex almost killed their raiding community, and crafting in 3.0 was so covulunted that only the most "hardcore" crafter would even try to understand and pursuit it. Again, number talk, and statistic is the only thing matter, not the gazillion spin up people can come up to convince themselves by mental gymnastics.


I will say Yoshi and SE should always make the game they want to make, and I will never ask them to make a game that "suit" me. As a customer, I look at their offering and decide for myself "yes, this is for me, so here is my money". If one day that stop being the case, I just leave and take my money elsewhere, as simple as that. I believe the dev should always make the game they want to make, not the game each different players want. A developer that tries to please everyone will end up pleasing none. People like you are the living example of that.

I enjoy the game not because Yoshi is making FF14 tailor to me, it's merely a happy coincidence that his vision and my taste align.

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You just happen to feed into my point, you are happy with what the game has become from the changes made in the past to get it to this point and argueing back when people state something different to your tastes.

So perhaps just accept that people are voicing out changes to be made as the current changes made are not good enough, and if they change it tough it up.

What you are saying is, instead of voicing a complaint to enact a change, is to take away the voice, go somewhere else so players like you can enjoy the game as is and let it stay like this?

Thats not how this works, hopefully enough feedback gets sent about the current distain about the current situation so another change is made.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

Heres the thing thats important for you to understand, people were trying to raid, but werent raiders at all.

Even now, the amount of people that backlash over raid prep, getting gear outside raids, getting food buffs, potions and practicing their classes to fine tune it more is minimal, not only that people dont do anythign to their UIs to fine tune that either.

The amount of people that try to practice their jobs/classes and UI middle of raiding is way too much.

This is the issue, its the non raiders trying it, just because a lot of people who are non raiders did little to no raid prep was the biggest issue, its still an issue today.

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No one was complaining about raid prep back in coil. We were just doing the content. And what do you mean non raiders were doing raid content.... That makes them raiders lol.....



I was casual as hell back then and I still completed all of the coils.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

I can queue up LFR in WoW at 2am and find 20 other people, and thats content people really much do once a week for gear.

All i hear is excuses for dead content

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doesnt like WoW have more players than FFXIV anyway? I know they dont release their sub numbers but I always assumed that even during its low point in Shadowbringersland they still managed to retain a good chunk of players more than FFXIV.

FF14 hardocre player: I am hardcore!!!
Everquest p99: *chuckles* Ya, you keep lying to yourself.
FF11: *nods in silent agreemnet*

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

This is such a weird post when the general consensus I've run into on different social media platforms seems to be that the devs have completely forgotten about casuals and only cater to raiders.

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Can you elaborate more on how they're catering to raiders? You're the only person I've seen to say that so I find that weird.
(Or I guess maybe someone else since I have high doubts of a reply from this person)

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that a comment like yours of "bad" is entirely your own personal subjective opinion, not any magical objective fact, and that it conflicts with the overwhelming majority of the actual playerbase's opinion. The closest thing any of us can come to claiming an objective "fact" here would be discussing the main target audience as casual gamers, which there is a veritable mountain of support to show.

People like me aren't "afraid" of change; we just don't want to see a game that hundreds of thousands of people really enjoy get ruined for all of us because a select few elitists want the game to cater to them instead.

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That's a bold claim considering there are popular streamers and many many players who are growing old and tired of the game, leaning on taking a break or quitting for good while another side of players who feel the same are speaking out. Have you notice the amount of likes given to those who agree that the game is growing dull and catering too strong to casuals? If you're not afraid of change, why are you against people asking for more change?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Complaining also got us HW raids, which gutted the raid community and basically killed the raid scene for almost 2 full years.

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I'm confused about how this is relevant. Wasn't HW raids like over 10 years ago while SE goal was to fix 1.0, make ARR long-lasting for an MMO and have HW be an expansion that offers new content? HW raids were a failure but they made better raids after. What does this prove? Why is this even a relevant argument for what's going on now? This feels like digging.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

doesnt like WoW have more players than FFXIV anyway? I know they dont release their sub numbers but I always assumed that even during its low point in Shadowbringersland they still managed to retain a good chunk of players more than FFXIV.

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This was a quick google search but considering the amount of people who are pissed at Blizzard. . . I find that hard to believe but idc and am willing to be proven wrong. I do know a lot are upset with FFXIV and going back to WoW but not something I hear or read about very often.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0608/image.png

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Originally Posted by KhudusQestir

This was a quick google search but considering the amount of people who are pissed at Blizzard. . . I find that hard to believe but idc and am willing to be proven wrong. I do know a lot are upset with FFXIV and going back to WoW but not something I hear or read about very often.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0608/image.png

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Yeah I was just basing it off the fact that WoW has been ingrained in the mmo genre for so long that it cant ever be topped in terms of playerbase because so many people are dedicated to it. Its only been until recently that people started seeing FFXIV as this big competitor to it due to the jabs taken at Blizzard during the Shadowlands and Lawsuit fiasco being their lowest point. But FFXIV has never been a game that strived to be better than WoW or bigger than other games, just mostly catering to the casual audience and doing its own thing with its retention through avoiding game system burnout that most other MMOs tend to do in order to try to retain their players.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Funny, I made a thread exactly about that just 2 weeks ago, so in a way I actually agree with that. But you're missing my point here, I'm just pointing out the irony of the previous poster.

But trade blame all you want, call other casual and yourself hardcore if it makes you feel better. But at the end of the day a casual and a hardcore player are just players all the same. Unless you believe hardcore pay an additional tax that make them a more valuable customers? At the end of the day numbers is what matter. The Alex almost killed their raiding community, and crafting in 3.0 was so covulunted that only the most "hardcore" crafter would even try to understand and pursuit it. Again, number talk, and statistic is the only thing matter, not the gazillion spin up people can come up to convince themselves by mental gymnastics.


I will say Yoshi and SE should always make the game they want to make, and I will never ask them to make a game that "suit" me. As a customer, I look at their offering and decide for myself "yes, this is for me, so here is my money". If one day that stop being the case, I just leave and take my money elsewhere, as simple as that. I believe the dev should always make the game they want to make, not the game each different players want. A developer that tries to please everyone will end up pleasing none. People like you are the living example of that.

I enjoy the game not because Yoshi is making FF14 tailor to me, it's merely a happy coincidence that his vision and my taste align.

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I'm very happy you find the game to fit your needs. Although I think it's a bit selfish to brush everyone's feelings off who wants to express their feelings about a game they love.
You also realize Yoshi has asked players to express how they feel about the game and any content within the game so he can do his best to fit as many players' needs to thank the players and help as many as he can to enjoy the game, right?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah I was just basing it off the fact that WoW has been ingrained in the mmo genre for so long that it cant ever be topped in terms of playerbase because so many people are dedicated to it. Its only been until recently that people started seeing FFXIV as this big competitor to it due to the jabs taken at Blizzard during the Shadowlands and Lawsuit fiasco being their lowest point. But FFXIV has never been a game that strived to be better than WoW or bigger than other games, just mostly catering to the casual audience and doing its own thing with its retention through avoiding game system burnout that most other MMOs tend to do in order to try to retain their players.

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Ya, I feel SE is not worried about losing players and that is why they told players to feel free to play other games and come back to FF later. I fully agree that I don't think SE is trying to compete, just simply doing their own thing and honestly I respect that.

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Originally Posted by KhudusQestir

Ya, I feel SE is not worried about losing players and that is why they told players to feel free to play other games and come back to FF later. I fully agree that I don't think SE is trying to compete, just simply doing their own thing and honestly I respect that.

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There's nothing to respect about this. It's not a sound business decision because obviously larger populations bring more money and it also doesn't respect the players who are fans and pay for the content year round. What it does succeed in though, is creating a temporary stream of new players that will treat it as a disposable game and do a one and done run. Hardly long term potential here.

The game will age, you know who might stay with it? loyal fans if they feel like the devs really care about them.

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Originally Posted by raelgun

You just happen to feed into my point, you are happy with what the game has become from the changes made in the past to get it to this point and argueing back when people state something different to your tastes.

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Sure, but are you also missing the main point I'm making: if you change the game because one side is unhappy, you're just making the happy people unhappy. To be fair, I have no issue with people staking their desire, the issue have always been the way it is done. I don't fault you for wanting to ask more of what you want, I just don't like people have to look down (on the casual) to make their point. In case you miss the obvious, that's why I kept asking what make the hardcore player more valuable then a casual players?

I am someone who run and clear savage/ultimate. Does that make me a hardcore player? I am also someone who enjoy running the new alliance raids and touring around other content with no commitment ... does that make me a casual player? That's why I said those labels are fairly meaningless to me. I enjoy the game for what it's offering, regardless of how people want to call those offering. What does that make me? I can tell you right now, if SE strip and remove savage/ultimate from the game ... they'll lose me as a customer. But at the same time, if they focus hard on the raiding content at the expense of the "casual" content, then they will also lose me as a customer. I played WoW and enjoyed it, and I know it will always be an option if I've want that experience again, but I don't need a WoW clone in this game.


FF14 is like a full course meal or buffet that focus on variety. I'm simply getting the most from it because I enjoy all the difference and contrast flavors, rather commit into one or two specific dishes. If you are someone who can only enjoy one specific type of food, you should never waste your money and time on a buffet, but should go to a specialty restaurant.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

There's nothing to respect about this. It's not a sound business decision because obviously larger populations bring more money and it also doesn't respect the players who are fans and pay for the content year round. What it does succeed in though, is creating a temporary stream of new players that will treat it as a disposable game and do a one and done run. Hardly long term potential here.

The game will age, you know who might stay with it? loyal fans if they feel like the devs really care about them.

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yeah so did everyone and their mom make the same comments towards WoW numerous times and look how well it's doing now.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

yeah so did everyone and their mom make the same comments towards WoW numerous times and look how well it's doing now.

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Wow seems to be doing alright still, even its bad spell didn't put the company in too much financial trouble. But need I remind you that this game exists only of its fanbase? I shouldn't have to tell you that the casual base jumped ship nearly as quickly as they joined because the game needed a ton of work. People who aren't fans and just try the game are nice to haves, not the core you build your product around.

But guess who is getting punished in the current environment? The long termers that don't have the "loads" of content everyone keeps talking about because they were there when it released. At best they have some achievements that are insanely hard to get and don't reward much besides a title or even worse 10 points you can't spend on anything. Maybe a mount you wont use because people can teleport up anyone's butt in seconds too? There's an Aetheryte every 5 inches of this game.

This is just an unsound business move. But it isn't unlike square to kill its games.

Right now, when its enjoying popularity the game should be focusing on blowing up all sorts of content and cement a gigantic population (It's the profitable thing to do as well). Not stick to the bare minimum cycle it has. The one good move it's done is the graphics update.

This game is in an unsustainable state. Nobody is going to stick around. My biggest request ever was the graphics update, and because of that I'm committed to play 7.0. They've secured my money there. What I didn't expect was considering unsubbing until 7.0 now because there isn't a reason for vets to stick around in its current design philosophy. This is something that hadn't crossed my mind in half a decade.

And I'm not burnt out. I'd gladly keep going if there was a reason to. I'm just not finding it. I play plenty of other games too. Lets face it if you keep current there has never been a patch where it takes insanely long to get caught up in recent memory. We've just hit a new low this time.

What's SE saying to me? A user that's been here for years, with plenty of money to spend and gladly willing to do so on the game but they don't want to give me anything in order to secure it? I'm not asking selfishly either. I'm asking as a business decision? What's up? Why don't you want money?

And I'm speaking for a lot of people who feel the same way that I do, they just unsub and don't say anything though. But about half are gone for good. Endwalker was the end. Despite their insistence that it's not. They are making sure its a great time to hang up that sword/staff.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Wow seems to be doing alright still, even its bad spell didn't put the company in too much financial trouble. But need I remind you that this game exists only of its fanbase? I shouldn't have to tell you that the casual base jumped ship nearly as quickly as they joined because the game needed a ton of work. People who aren't fans and just try the game are nice to haves, not the core you build your product around.

But guess who is getting punished in the current environment? The long termers that don't have the "loads" of content everyone keeps talking about because they were there when it released. At best they have some achievements that are insanely hard to get and don't reward much besides a title or even worse 10 points you can't spend on anything. Maybe a mount you wont use because people can teleport up anyone's butt in seconds too? There's an Aetheryte every 5 inches of this game.

This is just an unsound business move. But it isn't unlike square to kill its games.

Right now, when its enjoying popularity the game should be focusing on blowing up all sorts of content and cement a gigantic population (It's the profitable thing to do as well). Not stick to the bare minimum cycle it has. The one good move it's done is the graphics update.

This game is in an unsustainable state. Nobody is going to stick around. My biggest request ever was the graphics update, and because of that I'm committed to play 7.0. They've secured my money there. What I didn't expect was considering unsubbing until 7.0 now because there isn't a reason for vets to stick around in its current design philosophy. This is something that hadn't crossed my mind in half a decade.

And I'm not burnt out. I'd gladly keep going if there was a reason to. I'm just not finding it. I play plenty of other games too. Lets face it if you keep current there has never been a patch where it takes insanely long to get caught up in recent memory. We've just hit a new low this time.

What's SE saying to me? A user that's been here for years, with plenty of money to spend and gladly willing to do so on the game but they don't want to give me anything in order to secure it? I'm not asking selfishly either. I'm asking as a business decision? What's up? Why don't you want money?

And I'm speaking for a lot of people who feel the same way that I do, they just unsub and don't say anything though. But about half are gone for good. Endwalker was the end. Despite their insistence that it's not. They are making sure its a great time to hang up that sword/staff.

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sadly people dont get that if you did the old content its no longer there for you. its just show that there not much people that are here form the 2.0 days. or even 2-3 years ago. the people that say that they still go so much to do after years of play just dont play the game .

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

sadly people dint get that if you did the old content its no longer there for you. its just show that there not much people that are here form the 2.0 days. or even 2-3 years ago. the people that say that they still go so much to do after years of play just dont play the game .

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Exactly.

And you know my biggest resentment? It's that while I understand that they want to make FF relevant again and are chasing the old glory days dream with XVI they are blowing up a once in a lifetime opportunity to turn FFXIV into a juggernaut MMO that brings millions for years to come.

I can tell you right now the XVI, as good as it may be. It could even be a 10/10 across the board, will never be as profitable as XIV is. EVER. Because of its single player nature. SE got handed a huge population inheritance from Blizzards mistakes and the press that followed XIV and could hyper focus on retaining as much of it as possible to truly rake in the cash. But in this misguided attempt they are letting the opportunity go. But just look at their CEO and their NFT bet. And all the crap games they release. No. It's sad such a great IP doesn't have visionaries leading it.

And it's not to say they shouldn't be focusing on XVI, and I do hope its good. But this was not the place to skimp out on. at all.

Honestly nobody there sees this game for what it could be. So it just kind of wont happen.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Exactly.

And you know my biggest resentment? It's that while I understand that they want to make FF relevant again and are chasing the old glory days dream with XVI they are blowing up a once in a lifetime opportunity to turn FFXIV into a juggernaut MMO that brings millions for years to come.

I can tell you right now the XVI, as good as it may be. It could even be a 10/10 across the board, will never be as profitable as XIV is. EVER. Because of its single player nature. SE got handed a huge population inheritance from Blizzards mistakes and the press that followed XIV and could hyper focus on retaining as much of it as possible to truly rake in the cash. But in this misguided attempt they are letting the opportunity go. But just look at their CEO and their NFT bet. And all the crap games they release. No. It's sad such a great IP doesn't have visionaries leading it.

And it's not to say they shouldn't be focusing on XVI, and I do hope its good. But this was not the place to skimp out on. at all.

Honestly nobody there sees this game for what it could be. So it just kind of wont happen.

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Masterful take indeed

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Honestly nobody there sees this game for what it could be. So it just kind of wont happen.

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So tell them what "could be" is.

Don't speak in broad fanciful strokes such as "millions for years to come". Those days are gone. Gaming and players have both changed greatly in the decade plus since WoW was able to reach 12 million concurrent subscribers.

Speak in detail. Speak about the type of content you think that players want. Speak about what should be kept, what should be discarded and what should be added.

Speak about how much time per week you think players would be willing and able to invest in a single game.

And then don't be shocked when it turns out your "could be" isn't what other players actually want.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So tell them what "could be" is.

Don't speak in broad fanciful strokes such as "millions for years to come". Those days are gone. Gaming and players have both changed greatly in the decade plus since WoW was able to reach 12 million concurrent subscribers.

Speak in detail. Speak about the type of content you think that players want. Speak about what should be kept, what should be discarded and what should be added.

Speak about how much time per week you think players would be willing and able to invest in a single game.

And then don't be shocked when it turns out your "could be" isn't what other players actually want.

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The only thing i see you talk about is time spent ingame, telling me you really dont want to play the game

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So tell them what "could be" is.

Don't speak in broad fanciful strokes such as "millions for years to come". Those days are gone. Gaming and players have both changed greatly in the decade plus since WoW was able to reach 12 million concurrent subscribers.

Speak in detail. Speak about the type of content you think that players want. Speak about what should be kept, what should be discarded and what should be added.

Speak about how much time per week you think players would be willing and able to invest in a single game.

And then don't be shocked when it turns out your "could be" isn't what other players actually want.

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Online gaming has shifted away from MMO time sinks and towards things like MOBAs and Battle Royals where games last all of 15 minutes and then you can hop into the next one.

It's super disingenuous to say this game has "a lot of content" for hardcore players. Almost all that content is made to fit in the same exact template. OCCASIONALLY you're surprised by a new unique mechanic. They used to be more distinct in the past too. But since Shadowbringers? If you experienced a few duties of a type of content, you kind of already seen 90% pf what the next ones will offer. If a player already cleared the current tier they're not missing out a lot by clearing, say, Eden Savage.

And to that shill that said he was glad Endwalker didn't get a Bozja equivalent... What a huge hypocrite you are. I'm sure as an adult with a working brain you realise you were essentially saying "I'm happy in addition to the content I enjoy you're not getting a type of content YOU enjoy." Because guess what, if you don't like a type of content that isn't even remotely required for casual OR hardcore character progression, just don't do it and let people who enjoy them have it.

Literally every single post you make that isn't about the MSQ is just free shilling for a company that is already getting your money from useless mogstation PNGs.

Also comparing XIV to MOBA design as a defense to the lack of lasting content is pathetic. Those games don't charge you to keep access. XIV does.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

But just look at their CEO and their NFT bet

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Meta is winding down NFT support on both Facebook and Instagram. Ubisoft gave up on Quartz, and EA won't touch them with a ten foot pole. I give SE's NFT bs a year, maybe two at most. I just hope their games won't suffer too bad from the imminent failure of the NFT endeavor.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So tell them what "could be" is.

Don't speak in broad fanciful strokes such as "millions for years to come". Those days are gone. Gaming and players have both changed greatly in the decade plus since WoW was able to reach 12 million concurrent subscribers.

Speak in detail. Speak about the type of content you think that players want. Speak about what should be kept, what should be discarded and what should be added.

Speak about how much time per week you think players would be willing and able to invest in a single game.

And then don't be shocked when it turns out your "could be" isn't what other players actually want.

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I have. lots of times. This thread is about the general unsustainability of the game. I think you've been in the forums for a while and have seen some of my specific posts, otherwise you can look my history. You want detail but you don't take time to research the details of the posters doing the posting.

TBH while I do make specific suggestions I enjoy casual and hardcore content alike. So I doubt my "could be" is catering to a specific audience.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I can tell you right now the XVI, as good as it may be. It could even be a 10/10 across the board, will never be as profitable as XIV is. EVER. Because of its single player nature. SE got handed a huge population inheritance from Blizzards mistakes and the press that followed XIV and could hyper focus on retaining as much of it as possible to truly rake in the cash. But in this misguided attempt they are letting the opportunity go. But just look at their CEO and their NFT bet. And all the crap games they release. No. It's sad such a great IP doesn't have visionaries leading it.

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That ... not how software development work, at all. Whether you like what's happening in 7.0 or not, most of the work on it have been decided 2-3 years ago. By the time WoW implosion happened last year, the plan for FF14 would already finalized. Even if SE scramble all hand on deck and put FF16 in a freeze to take advantage of it like your sage advise indicate, the most likely outcome out that is Square would give it their own crisis, that's it. For example, the decision of 7.0 not gettign Eureka/Borza content was probably decided in the planning phase of 7.0 at least 3-4 years ago. If they scramble to put something like that in just a year, all you would get is a broken/half-finished/ill-designed instance that would od more harm then good.

Also the fact they don't put every egg in one packet is something to applaud, not criticize IMO. A diverse porfolio is always preferable to a one trick ponny developers. Also, FF15 raked in half a billion revenue, FFVII remade is also getting close to that number. Regardless of how they're compared to other FF games, they are number that the majority of the market can only dream and salivating about. And they're equally important for SE to maintain their status as a brand.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

If they scramble to put something like that in just a year, all you would get is a broken/half-finished/ill-designed instance that would od more harm then good.

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You load this with speculation. And even if it did come with bugs we'd report them and work it out. God knows it's not like we haven't before. Exceptional times require exceptional attention. The massive population boom was pretty exceptional. I do agree with you things are decided in advance, when its business as usual.

You speak like someone who's been working at a job for 20 years and have grown so complacent that even if the opportunity of a lifetime for your company shows up you couldn't be bothered to lift an extra finger to see if it'll work out.

"Eh" its fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ath192

You load this with speculation. And even if it did come with bugs we'd report them and work it out. God knows it's not like we haven't before. Exceptional times require exceptional attention. The massive population boom was pretty exceptional. I do agree with you things are decided in advance, when its business as usual.

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Like I said, spoken like someone who don't understand software development work. The only way your previous post would make sense is if you can go back in time to maybe 2018 and tell Yoshi all the event that transpired in 2022, if his teams didn't adapt, then yeah you have a point. Btw, you can also inform them about COVID and shortage of chip/server in 2021 as well, so they could pre-order all the necessary hardware to full capitalize it as well, instead of having us waiting half a day to log in at the launch of 7.0. So, did you go back in time?

It's always so easy to speak candidly and giving sage advise with the benefit of hindsight, isn't it? :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ath192

You speak like someone who's been working at a job for 20 years and have grown so complacent that even if the opportunity of a lifetime for your company shows up you couldn't be bothered to lift an extra finger to see if it'll work out.

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I speak like someone who actually worked in software-development. And no, I'm not old enough to have 20 years working experience yet. But I worked long enough to understand why there is a reason "content lockdown" is a sacred concept in a development cycle that they taught you in school, and upheld by every good project manager. Almost every time I see a shit shown happen, it's because a team do not give this principal its deserve respect.

No content developer will appreciate a manger one day knock down the door and say "I want you to drop everything you're doing and focusing on making something we never planned for and get it out ASAP!". Sometime, there is something you can not just buy or do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Like I said, spoken like someone who don't understand software development work. The only way your previous post would make sense is if you can go back in time to maybe 2018 and tell Yoshi all the event that transpired in 2022, if his teams didn't adapt, then yeah you have a point. Btw, you can also inform them about COVID and shortage of chip/server in 2021 as well, so they could pre-order all the necessary hardware to full capitalize it as well, instead of having us waiting half a day to log in at the launch of 7.0. So, did you go back in time?

It's always so easy to speak candidly and giving sage advise with the benefit of hindsight, isn't it? :p

I speak like someone who actually worked in software-development. And no, I'm not old enough to have 20 years working experience yet. But I worked long enough to understand why there is a reason "content lockdown" is a sacred concept in a development cycle that they taught you in school, and upheld by every good project manager. Almost every time I see a shit shown happen, it's because a team do not give this principal its deserve respect.

No content developer will appreciate a manger one day knock down the door and say "I want you to drop everything you're doing and focusing on making something we never planned for and get it out ASAP!". Sometime, there is something you can not just buy or do.

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Sounds like 1.0 disaster to ARR to me. And I guess they did do it.

Honestly I don't care where or when actions happen if my comments are taken into account. So per your own admission "The only way your previous post would make sense is if you can go back in time to maybe 2018 and tell Yoshi all the event that transpired in 2022" The post makes sense right now because I am telling him how I feel right now, the events that are transpiring in 2023, and I know a lot of people feel the same way. So that even if its 2 years down the line or whatever hopefully they don't repeat the same mistakes. And the opportunity they have.

But I guess if your mission here is to explain away everything and dismiss people's feelings you do a great job. The level of condescension you have for others here as well is something else so if you don't care about anyone the only guess I have is that you want attention about how much of a genius you are because you can rationalize why they don't do anything. That doesn't mean anything to me, nor does it make the situation better. The devs also know what they're doing and why, so you explaining what they may or may not be going through doesn't help them either because they know their situation better than you do.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

I speak like someone who actually worked in software-development.

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So cringe. Nobody cares about their restrictions in their dev cycle, because at the end of the day - If a game doesn't have what a player wants, then they move on.

If a business is unable to stay limber to market movements, then they die.

This is exactly what players complain about today - XIV's inability to react to movements and needs like most Live Service games to date. They almost never update their content, we're basically just now seeing them doing something for decade old rotten ARR.

Their cycle is more like a single player game than an actual MMO in this market. It's pretty sad.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No, people complained final coil was too easy. So we got gordias.


Most of the more casual groups from the coil days were killed in gordias. Coil areas had a ton of people outside them even late in the tiers. Alexander was starkly different.

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The people complaining weren't the ways actually clearing Coil but rather non-raiders with the perception a tier dying in only a few days meant it must be super easy. That mentality was derived entirely from WoW, which was at the height of its popularity back then with their Savage equivalent taking several weeks.

Furthermore, it's straight up disingenuous to say anyone asked for Gordias. The dev team has openly acknowledged they didn't test it properly; going through each mechanic individually but never actually clearing the fight from start to finish, which caused it to be widely overtuned. We saw this carry over into Midas where A6S bad to be nerfed during the tier itself because of how much harder it was than A7S. Another major factor in both Gordias and Midas' poor success rate is the lack of cross world party finder, cooldown resets, raid gear being the job specific artifact gear making in impossible to switch to another job even within the same subrole for Gordias and woefully poor balancing. Astro wasn't just bad, it was downright worthless in Gordias.

There were many, many throughout early Heavensward and the disaster that was Gordias. Difficulty played a large factor, there is no denying that. But it was neither the only one nor was it the raid community demanding it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ath192

You load this with speculation. And even if it did come with bugs we'd report them and work it out. God knows it's not like we haven't before. Exceptional times require exceptional attention. The massive population boom was pretty exceptional. I do agree with you things are decided in advance, when its business as usual.

You speak like someone who's been working at a job for 20 years and have grown so complacent that even if the opportunity of a lifetime for your company shows up you couldn't be bothered to lift an extra finger to see if it'll work out.

"Eh" its fine.

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Much as Raven and I have disagreed in the past, he's correct in his assessment. Endwalker was mostly finalized long before the exodus of WoW happened. At best, the only bits of content not near completion would be the latter Criterion Dungeons or Raid Tiers we'll soon be seeing but the foundation was likely well underway. They couldn't, for example, decide to scrap Island Sanctuary to begin work on Bozja v2. I mean, they theoretically could but you'd get a near literal copy/paste of what already existed because they simply wouldn't have the time to develop new assets, animations and etc.

Once an expansion is near its intended release date, everything is done and dusted. Any criticisms, complaints and dissatisfaction can only be incorporated for the next expansion. Now what Square could have done to keep potential interest is be less secretive with what's coming in 7.0, what improvements and new additions they hope to achieve and what can be improved upon with the current content. We'll see in the forthcoming Live Letter and Fanfests if that happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The people complaining weren't the ways actually clearing Coil but rather non-raiders with the perception a tier dying in only a few days meant it must be super easy. That mentality was derived entirely from WoW, which was at the height of its popularity back then with their Savage equivalent taking several weeks.

Furthermore, it's straight up disingenuous to say anyone asked for Gordias. The dev team has openly acknowledged they didn't test it properly; going through each mechanic individually but never actually clearing the fight from start to finish, which caused it to be widely overtuned. We saw this carry over into Midas where A6S bad to be nerfed during the tier itself because of how much harder it was than A7S. Another major factor in both Gordias and Midas' poor success rate is the lack of cross world party finder, cooldown resets, raid gear being the job specific artifact gear making in impossible to switch to another job even within the same subrole for Gordias and woefully poor balancing. Astro wasn't just bad, it was downright worthless in Gordias.

There were many, many throughout early Heavensward and the disaster that was Gordias. Difficulty played a large factor, there is no denying that. But it was neither the only one nor was it the raid community demanding it.

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We remember things very differently then. I remember people asking for increased difficulty in raids after Final Coil, as it was considered too easy after Second Coil. I remember literal boos at fanfest in 2014 when they announced the Coils would have nerfs applied for DF. Yes, QoL issues impacted progression in Gordias, and it was overtuned. But that also comes from the community expectation that we be able to clear week one. Gordias was tuned with Savage and tome gear in mind. The community rejected that, and now that's why we have raids clearable without needing savage gear at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R041

So cringe. Nobody cares about their restrictions in their dev cycle, because at the end of the day - If a game doesn't have what a player wants, then they move on.

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And yet so many are still here.

Oh, wait, I've seen this before, it's because only the people who complain about how the game is terrible and dying actually care about it, and the people who talk about the things they actually enjoy doing in the game or dare to contradict the naysayers are just white knights to be dismissed and derided. Because clearly us armchair devs on the forums know better than the actual devs who work on the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R041

So cringe. Nobody cares about their restrictions in their dev cycle, because at the end of the day - If a game doesn't have what a player wants, then they move on.

If a business is unable to stay limber to market movements, then they die.

This is exactly what players complain about today - XIV's inability to react to movements and needs like most Live Service games to date. They almost never update their content, we're basically just now seeing them doing something for decade old rotten ARR.

Their cycle is more like a single player game than an actual MMO in this market. It's pretty sad.

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I see you've reverted to Standard Operating Procedure here. Dimiss the fact that someone works in software development as "cringe". Reiterate because "nobody cares". Finalize with "they move on".

Then bring out the absolutely stupidest statement ever made about business "unable to stay limber to market movements, then they die". Without any actual examples for this statement, you have written off entire industries with your overall generalization about 'business' without the slightest clue beyond what you may or may not have heard on the Internet.

Then move on to the non sequitur "XIV's inability to react", as if a game that was founded 10 years ago has to have the latest fad in what you call Live Service games. Follow that with the bold (and false) "They almost never update their content", when you actually meant "they almost never change what's selling for them because I said the game needed it."