Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

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Originally Posted by R041

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That's the best you could do? lol

I'm disappointed.

Also, as someone who actually play and enjoy the game, I ended up with way too much Gil to buy Gil.

Now THAT is something I can also complain about, not having something good to spend my Gil on.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

That's the best you could do? lol

I'm disappointed.
Also, as someone who actually play and enjoy the game, I ended up with way too much Gil to buy Gil.
Now THAT is something I can also complain about, not having something good to spend my Gil on.

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Look man, I don't have much else. It was funny. lol :(

Gil isn't even an issue, it's the spam. The issue really comes with not even being able to use your Gil to buy a house with or anything else. Obviously moving servers has made that much easier now - But it's taken years to finally get our Large FC just because of competition. We had 8 entries on a Large, and I snagged a solo Med. (Might go for large now that I don't have to hoard for plot entries)

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

And turn out some people don't like paying for a monthly sub for bare bone content. Hell, this game lack heave replayability or just, interesting side content. Cause yea there lots of stuff to do like the 700+ ish side quest that give sub-par xp and gil. But why would you do them?

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I would love to know where this "bare bone content" is...I've been playing rather steadily for almost 2 years now, and I still have a ton of things on the horizon that I've barely scratched the surface on so far. Not to mention I haven't even touched things like IS yet (not because I don't want to - I've just been enjoying so many other things and haven't gotten around to it yet).

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Probably because most people that would disagree can't even talk on the forum unless they sub. Luckily for you there are a few masochists left.

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This response made no sense. The point was the continued health of the game (currently hundreds of thousands of active players even during late-patch lulls) shows there's a huge number of people finding a lot of engaging content. Not to mention the forums are fairly worthless as a representative of anything since most people who enjoy the game just play it and have probably never even looked at the forum, let alone post on it. I'd say the "masochists" here are the few that spend time talking about how much they enjoy the game in such a negative echo chamber.

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Games like WoW or PSO2 have much higher innate replayability in their content because those games have more layers of complexity and offer content with shifting circumstances. In 14, you can press identical inputs every time in almost every single piece of content and get an identical result. Everything is completely scripted down the milisecond, including the way jobs play. All fights in the game devolve into the worlds slowest rhythm game after a few runs.

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I can only really compare to WoW, but hard disagree. WoW fights are much more heavily scripted. FFXIV at least tends to feature bosses with an element of randomness in which abilities they choose to use. Here, if you press identical inputs, you'll likely end up tanking the floor rather quickly.

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World of Warcraft, GW2, PSO2 all have content that is consistently more interesting to participate in repeatedly than FF14.

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This is purely a personal opinion trying to masquerade as if it was a fact (it's not). My opinion? FFXIV leaves the rest in the dust for things I find interesting to participate in repeatedly. There's a reason FFXIV became my only MMO sub while WoW, GW2, and SWTOR all went by the wayside.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I can only really compare to WoW, but hard disagree. WoW fights are much more heavily scripted. FFXIV at least tends to feature bosses with an element of randomness in which abilities they choose to use. Here, if you press identical inputs, you'll likely end up tanking the floor rather quickly.

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You are unironically just completely making things up.

This is such a nonsensical take that it makes me immediately doubt you have ever stepped foot in high-end raid in either of the games, and are just grasping at straws to white knight like usual.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

This is purely a personal opinion trying to masquerade as if it was a fact (it's not). My opinion? FFXIV leaves the rest in the dust for things I find interesting to participate in repeatedly. There's a reason FFXIV became my only MMO sub while WoW, GW2, and SWTOR all went by the wayside.

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It is objective fact that there are more permutations and randomization in all of those games, than there is in ANY content offered in FF14.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I can only really compare to WoW, but hard disagree. WoW fights are much more heavily scripted. FFXIV at least tends to feature bosses with an element of randomness in which abilities they choose to use. Here, if you press identical inputs, you'll likely end up tanking the floor rather quickly.

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Umm, ya no buddy. Look at what I got here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1318610702

These are the timelines for all of the savage fights and they never change. I could also go on and on with the rest of the fights.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

And turn out some people don't like paying for a monthly sub for bare bone content. Hell, this game lack heave replayability or just, interesting side content. Cause yea there lots of stuff to do like the 700+ ish side quest that give sub-par xp and gil. But why would you do them?

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I can’t fathom what kind of game you would consider not to have bare bones content when you complain about a game with 4 multi hour expansions, various side story/trials/deep dungeon/collectables/etc etc etc. The main story alone is well worth the price of entry.


And if it’s not to your liking, just walk away until there is enough to justify your sub.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You will need to post logged evidence of any of this for it to be relevant. These types of claims are so commonplace among the 14 community that they have lost meaning.

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If you don't believe me, you can just ignore me. If you lack the faith to follow a discussion in good faith, there is no point to try.

I do make a lot of assumption about the people I talk to (who doesn't). I can assume you're wrong, I can assume you're hyperbolic, I can assume you making the wrong assumption. But I never assume you're lying, unless you claim something out of the realm of possibility.

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You are so weirdly heated

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The weird part here is you think I'm ... heated?

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I never said the games were more generous, I never commented on their gearing systems, and I never said they were overall better than 14.

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Go back to all the quoted you had above, do you notice a certain word is missing? Your post is just another extension of a 100+ page discussion where each and every single of those complains have come up ... multiple of times. My response simply to the same context, and I took care not to say you, but people.

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There are certain things they do right that 14 could learn from to become an even better game.

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I don't disagree, but there is a limit of comparison until it become unreal. Like, to take what you were arguing with the other person about the GW2 comparison. As someone who had solo Lupicus back in the day on 4 different classes I'm fully aware how flexible the fights in GW2 are. But GW2 is a game that designed around the fact it does not rely on Holy Trinity. That means they are not designed that requires you to have "specific" things to fight.

- I can kill a boss spamming one attack for challenge.
- A skill and full glass cannon group can kill a boss in a few second flat.
- The first Lupicus kill of a group in my guild involving them chain coprsing for almost 2 hours. (But they later remove that ability).


If you ask me between GW2 and FF14, which system I like more. I would say GW2 . But that's not the same question as which one is better. While there is no issue for a boss in GW2 to fire off several critical attack in a row. In FF14 for example, you can not just have the boss randomly decide to fire off succession Tank busters more than the defensive CD that the tank has. Or the boss randomly decided to enter a non-targetable phase when the group just fire off their 2min+pot window which may result in missing the DPS check.


You can try to make an orange taste better, but you ain't gonna do that by trying to make it "crunchy" like an apple.

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Games like WoW or PSO2 have much higher innate replayability in their content because those games have more layers of complexity and offer content with shifting circumstances.

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Whether that statement is "correct" or not, potential is meaningless unless it is realized. Which one you would choose? A smart but lazy worker or an hardworking one with just an average IQ?

There are reason why despite playing all of them, and even heavily invested in some, in the end I left those other game and stay with FF14. You're free to not believe my claim, but I can certainly say I'm not alone given FF14 position in the market. At the end, you know there is a very famous saying: "the number doesn't lie".

Drop me atell when those game realize their "innate" ability, I'll happy to drop by again. Until then this is my home and I'm happy with it. Believe it or not, I wouldn't pay 15$ for it otherwise while most of those other games were F2P.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Yes? Why does that come as a surprise

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Perhaps because, for the last 6 years, players on the forum have been saying "give me harder content that is not raiding", not "give me harder content that is not raiding but make it so the rewards are equal to or better than raiding".

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

The weird part here is you think I'm ... heated?

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Because you very obviously are in this thread. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Go back to all the quoted you had above, do you notice a certain word is missing? Your post is just another extension of a 100+ page discussion where each and every single of those complains have come up ... multiple of times. My response simply to the same context, and I took care not to say you, but people.

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It's weird to specifically reply to someone's post, and then try to use it as an opportunity to punch at the air and fight invisible, hypothetical 'people' on an issue that wasn't actually mentioned in the post you are replying to.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

There are reason why despite playing all of them, and even heavily invested in some, in the end I left those other game and stay with FF14. You're free to not believe my claim, but I can certainly say I'm not alone given FF14 position in the market. At the end, you know there is a very famous saying: "the number doesn't lie".

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The numbers don't exist.

Neither WoW nor FFXIV release official population statistics, and the most accurate unofficial FF14 statistics indicate 14 hasn't even achieved 1/5th of WoW's peak subscriber count.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The numbers don't exist.

Neither WoW nor FFXIV release official population statistics, and the most accurate unofficial FF14 statistics indicate 14 hasn't even achieved

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The catch is WoW used to boast about it left and right, until they decided not anymore. Hum, I wonder why?

Remember I said I used to have 8 characters in WoW? My server was one of the one that got the axe when the sub situation got so bad and they had to consolidate. I wasn't there when during the period they did it, so imagine my surprise when I came back and found they scatter my 8 chars across like 4 different servers, some even had their name changed to weird bots name.

Remember I said I'm a founder player in TOR? I actually had the honor (horror) of seeing a server dying in real time as Bioware and EA refused the server merge until it was too late as the game enter steep decline. I sitll remember it, a Sunday morning, I logged in, and see myself as the only person on The Hub, that when I decided to leave Tor for the first time.

My dude, I don't need the dev to give me their number to know the population was declining. And even if you don't believe me as the person in those story, you know what I said is still a fact.

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1/5th of WoW's peak subscriber count.

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Guess what ... I was a WoW players at those times ... why I'm not a WoW players now. Want to guess?

And since those "peak" time, WoW have consistently bleed player until it's bad enough they decided to stop release sub data. While at the same time FF14 has been consistently expanding in the same time period. Again, don't need any official data, I can tell how many players there are now in the game based on economy, queue time, PF activities .etc.

And yet here I keep seeing people advocate the game that has been gaining players should try to "improve" the way all those games that have been contracting. Like ... yo, make it make sense.

I wonder why people even bother reasoning with a post from someone who lacked the patience to see a 3 minute tutorial through. Knowing this, nothing after had any weight.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

My dude, I don't need the dev to give me their number to know the population was declining. And even if you don't believe me as the person in those story, you know what I said is still a fact.

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Ok, so the "numbers" that "don't lie" are actually your feelings.

Interesting!

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Ok, so the "numbers" that "don't lie" are actually your feelings.

Interesting!

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the number of server don't lie. The number of players I interact with don't lie. The number of players active per day don't lie.

But I see now you're just being facetious.

Just gonna say, if you run out of argument, there is much more graceful way to stop, simply stop responding would be one of them. I do that sometime too, and you can consider that my cue to stop responding to you. Maybe the reason I come across as heated to you simply because I do take discussion and debate serious, and never try to be facetious about it.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

I've been farming an achievement that people bored of, such as Jewel of the Firmament.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...PXvHOrWOa8.png

There's still plenty things to do, but once again, "I'm not interested." kind of behavior :)

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You mean overachieving/100%ing?

It feels weird to have goals like that. I've been trying to unlock and perfect as much as I can on my character, which includes things like hunt minions/scrolls to gemstone minions/scrolls and whatever else. I eventually want to finish up PotD/HoH as well as Eureka/Bozja. And you can add titles and achievements and other things to that too.

It just doesn't seem popular among most of the community. Add on that most people don't want to touch older content and... it just feels sad a lot of times.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

You mean overachieving/100%ing?

It feels weird to have goals like that. I've been trying to unlock and perfect as much as I can on my character, which includes things like hunt minions/scrolls to gemstone minions/scrolls and whatever else. I eventually want to finish up PotD/HoH as well as Eureka/Bozja. And you can add titles and achievements and other things to that too.

It just doesn't seem popular among most of the community. Add on that most people don't want to touch older content and... it just feels sad a lot of times.

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Theres an easy solution. Play alts. Now before you say anything need I remind people that some folk dont like being fantasiaholics so starting again with a new race or even set of jobs you normally dont play (if youre not adamant on doing everything on one character) easily extends your play time. And its actually kinda fun, since you can progress better with the current knowledge you have of the game.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You are unironically just completely making things up.

This is such a nonsensical take that it makes me immediately doubt you have ever stepped foot in high-end raid in either of the games, and are just grasping at straws to white knight like usual.

It is objective fact that there are more permutations and randomization in all of those games, than there is in ANY content offered in FF14.

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You seem to have interesting definitions of "unironically", "making things up", "permutations" and "randomization" given that your use of all them is, as you so eloquently put it, objectively wrong. I also never mentioned "high-end raiding," though even there I would still be correct. The entire way DBM functions for WoW is inherent on scripts and specifically a lack of randomization.

Meanwhile, let's take a fight like Eden's Promise: Eternity. Each time you do it, the boss will select random (aka different) elements in different orders on each of its casts. Saying "I'll just stand close on the first cast, then go to the side on the second cast" will get you very dead, very quick, because there's a very low probability that specific movement will be the right one.

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Umm, ya no buddy. Look at what I got here.

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Umm, yeah buddy. Look at the descriptions of those abilities. While the name of the move occurs at a certain time, each time it's cast, it can be cast in a different way (such as the order and placement of the crystals for each use of Topaz Stones). Way to fail at proving someone wrong and end up actually proving them right ;)

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Theres an easy solution. Play alts.

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That's why I do. Raid is my #1 priority content, and the volume in FF14 certainly isn't enough to keep me sated. So I play alts, and give each of them different raid role, it's sufficient to keep the tier relative fresh and improve longevity.

At the same time, there are contents I never touched. I played Deep dungeon abit, but I don't even have heaven on high unlocked on my main. 'about 3 weeks ago one of my static member boast about finally reached the top floor solo, which I know something he has been trying for a long time, and I think he only play on one char. I got my additional glam and clears, he got his achievement. We're both happy.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Umm, yeah buddy. Look at the descriptions of those abilities. While the name of the move occurs at a certain time, each time it's cast, it can be cast in a different way (such as the order and placement of the crystals for each use of Topaz Stones). Way to fail at proving someone wrong and end up actually proving them right ;)

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Well let's put it this way, it's not enough of a deviation. Cooldowns are still the same, mitigations are still the same, burst windows are still the same no matter the comp and no matter what kill of the fight it is. Movement might change but everything else is still the same.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Well let's put it this way, it's not enough of a deviation. Cooldowns are still the same, mitigations are still the same, burst windows are still the same no matter the comp and no matter what kill of the fight it is. Movement might change but everything else is still the same.

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Mitigation plan is definitely not the same for P8S phase 1, it changes depending on if you get dog first or snake first. Starting from SB you gotta admit FF14 has been trying to add and widen the deviation of the fights.

*waits for the room to become silent*
*walks into the middle of the room*
*lights go dark*
*spotlight goes on*
*grabs mic*
Ahem.... Have you heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV? With an expanded free trial which you can play through the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award winning Heavensward expansion up to level 60 for free with no restrictions on playtime! With over 22 millions accounts, now is time to try it out!

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Mitigation plan is definitely not the same for P8S phase 1, it changes depending on if you get dog first or snake first. Starting from SB you gotta admit FF14 has been trying to add and widen the deviation of the fights.

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I mean, his point still stands though. The vast majority of fights in this game are completely scripted, savage raiding/ultimate raiding are learning the steps to a dance and then performing it. A boss might have a bit of randomness in some aspects (P8S wall boss switching between forms at the start for example), but that's far and away the deviation and not the norm. Most fights follow an exact timeline that doesn't change at all, far moreso than WoW's. WoW raid bosses are a lot more chaotic and are definitely not learning the steps to a dance and then performing it. Just because there are a few outliers doesn't mean they are the norm.

Let's look at TEA, an ultimate fight. It has a static timeline that happens without fail every time. The only deviation here is who gets what mechanic put on them for certain things. Living Liquid will always spam ground slap, BJCC will always make your party rotate nisi passes, Alexander will always make you do wormhole, etc, at the same exact time without fail.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Let's look at TEA, an ultimate fight. It has a static timeline that happens without fail every time. The only deviation here is who gets what mechanic put on them for certain things. Living Liquid will always spam ground slap, BJCC will always make your party rotate nisi passes, Alexander will always make you do wormhole, etc, at the same exact time without fail.

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And I can present you DSR, where it may be the same mechanic (enum) but since you have random execution, it still requires you to adjust pretty much every time. That's why it was a wall during prog, and a group can't pass it reliably unless every member had mastered every permutation. The point is I didn't say FF14 had a lot, I'm saying getting more and more and there is a marked improvement each tier.

And don't forget, when they tried to push the envelop a bit too hard (Midgasorm), the feedback they received was not a positive one. The FF14 community is not as raid centric as the WoW community. This goes back to my point about having the right expectation for the game you play.


- GW2: freeform design. The game designed so that you can win without needing any one particular ability as long as your reflex is good enough. Your abilities is there as a safety margin, but not as a requirement. This means the boss can do w/e they want any time.
- WoW: the reason it can "afford" to be more dynamic because the fight also designed with a much bigger safety margin. The larger raid also give room to adjust for more error.
- FF14: you have a smaller raid, and also extreme punishing for mistake. Before you start over-gearing the content: someone make a mistake: wipe. Someone forgot to pop a mit: wipe. The tank pop their CD too early? Wipe. When you already operate on such a thin margin, there isn't a lot of room to flex. And like I said, even with that there have been a clear effort from the FF14 team to make the fights more dynamic.


If GW2 is designed like a Ninja Gaiden game, FF14 is designed like a DDR game. It's up to you to say which one you prefer, but the infrastructure behind them are different even if the presentation look similar at first glance.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Theres an easy solution. Play alts. Now before you say anything need I remind people that some folk dont like being fantasiaholics so starting again with a new race or even set of jobs you normally dont play (if youre not adamant on doing everything on one character) easily extends your play time. And its actually kinda fun, since you can progress better with the current knowledge you have of the game.

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That's not a solution. I do have an alt that I'm working on but doing all the content over again has its ups and downs.

It's a different experience compared to trying to finish your main character, trying to do content that not many people are particularly interested in and ending up grinding for those achievements and unlocks on your own.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I would love to know where this "bare bone content" is...I've been playing rather steadily for almost 2 years now, and I still have a ton of things on the horizon that I've barely scratched the surface on so far. Not to mention I haven't even touched things like IS yet (not because I don't want to - I've just been enjoying so many other things and haven't gotten around to it yet).

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Any contents that don't have reward is dead contents. Agains, game got a thousands side quest, yet 90% of those unlock nothing, have a bad xp/time ratio, don't give that much gils.

The game got 2 type of content, the main one that just the MSQ the Xpac raid and alliance raid, beast tribe, Thing like that that you usualy run until you get the max reward out of it then never go back in after that.

Then there the side content that go from Fun content to niche content only a few people does, mostly achievement hunter. Like Yea, I never did the Domian Majhong content, but let not act like it alive or give any rewards that worth people time.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I can’t fathom what kind of game you would consider not to have bare bones content when you complain about a game with 4 multi hour expansions, various side story/trials/deep dungeon/collectables/etc etc etc. The main story alone is well worth the price of entry.


And if it’s not to your liking, just walk away until there is enough to justify your sub.

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4 multi hour expensions when your main rival in the industry got 10 is not something to show proudly. That aside, FFXIV got lots of content, yes, but that content usually dry out fast. You do the MSQ once, then wait 3 months for the next patch that give like 1 dungeon that you will most likely run only once, unless it has good glamour behind it. You run Extreme Trials, until you drop mount then never go in there ever agains. There lots of yellow side quest, yet 99% of those give no real reward so there no good reasons to do them. We got tons of FATE, yet yoou only see people do the few one that give achievement.

If anything, the only repeatable content that take a bunch of time to complete is Beast tribe and current tier raids, but that mostly cause they time gate you so you can't farm them all in one go so...

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

4 multi hour expensions when your main rival in the industry got 10 is not something to show proudly...

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Quality over quantity. The point of pride is in consistently providing updates to the game. Since ARR, the team has been running the same schedule, where WoW has more gaps. This is one of the things that actually helps keep people coming back. They know what to expect and when to expect it. They even go so far as to have Moogle Events and Live Letters help mark the time until the next update.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

4 multi hour expensions when your main rival in the industry got 10 is not something to show proudly. That aside, FFXIV got lots of content, yes, but that content usually dry out fast. You do the MSQ once, then wait 3 months for the next patch that give like 1 dungeon that you will most likely run only once, unless it has good glamour behind it. You run Extreme Trials, until you drop mount then never go in there ever agains. There lots of yellow side quest, yet 99% of those give no real reward so there no good reasons to do them. We got tons of FATE, yet yoou only see people do the few one that give achievement.

If anything, the only repeatable content that take a bunch of time to complete is Beast tribe and current tier raids, but that mostly cause they time gate you so you can't farm them all in one go so...

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I don’t see how whataboutism is relevant? Can you not just play both if you wanted to? It’s not like you have to pick sides or something.

..or were you one of those kids that had to pick sides from team PlayStation or team Nintendo?



Not every game, or every piece of content within any given game, needs to appeal to everyone.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

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I'd glamour collect but there's no glamour catalogue.

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Yes, there is.

and here

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Those are merely a combination of pinterest and a database. I suspect you know full well what's being referred to by "glamour catalog", given the earlier contexts.

If not:

• Glamours instantly made usable account-wide upon looting.
• No limits on how many glamours you can get/hold.
• No need for consumable items to equip or remove glamours.
• Can observe and try on all glamours, collected and yet to be collected, from anywhere in the world and at any time just via a basic menu pane alike to Actions and Traits -- with zero need to visit an inn, let alone a specific interactable therein.
• Emperor's New ----- items / hidden slots are automatically available options.
• Can see in-game where every glamour can be acquired, including even from which bosses, quests, events, etc.

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Glamours instantly made usable account-wide upon looting.

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..that cant be dyed with WOW's system

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Can see in-game where every glamour can be acquired, including even from which bosses, quests, events, etc.

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Do you have ANY idea how big that database would be?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

..that cant be dyed with WOW's system

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GW2 has a lot of those points with a better dye system than FF14...

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Those are merely a combination of pinterest and a database. I suspect you know full well what's being referred to by "glamour catalog", given the earlier contexts.

If not:

• Glamours instantly made usable account-wide upon looting.
• No limits on how many glamours you can get/hold.
• No need for consumable items to equip or remove glamours.
• Can observe and try on all glamours, collected and yet to be collected, from anywhere in the world and at any time just via a basic menu pane alike to Actions and Traits -- with zero need to visit an inn, let alone a specific interactable therein.
• Emperor's New ----- items / hidden slots are automatically available options.
• Can see in-game where every glamour can be acquired, including even from which bosses, quests, events, etc.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

..that cant be dyed with WOW's system

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Nothing about the advantages above precludes dyeing items. An MMO can have both.

Note that not every XIV item is dyable, either, if only to get us to go out and farm recolors of those past items or to splurge on the-exact-same-skin-but-now-dyable. The restriction is separate and arbitrary.

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Do you have ANY idea how big that database would be?

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Smaller than WoW's in-game appearances collection pane, which manages it without any perceptible costs.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I don’t see how whataboutism is relevant? Can you not just play both if you wanted to? It’s not like you have to pick sides or something.

..or were you one of those kids that had to pick sides from team PlayStation or team Nintendo?



Not every game, or every piece of content within any given game, needs to appeal to everyone.

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We can't compare thing now cause that would just make your points less valids or something? Never said we had to pick a side, Like many people pointed out, other MMO got repeatable content and FFXIV just decide to not have those, and many regards that as a downside.

My point here is that if you limit your argument too ''There a whole 4 xpac ammount of content'' then it still not a lot compared to the industry standard.


Also ''Not every game, or every piece of content within any given game, needs to appeal to everyone.'' That must be a joke right? FXIV does the best it can to appeal to the casual masses, to the point there a tremendous gap between casual and hardcore content, with few content for the midcore player.


You also completly skipped my point where there a lack of repetable content and just jumped on the whataboutism strawman anyway.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Quality over quantity. The point of pride is in consistently providing updates to the game. Since ARR, the team has been running the same schedule, where WoW has more gaps. This is one of the things that actually helps keep people coming back. They know what to expect and when to expect it. They even go so far as to have Moogle Events and Live Letters help mark the time until the next update.

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WoW only had gap in WoD, for the rest of it cycle, you alway had patches around the same time of the years. Not that it matter really. The issues here agains is not consistency or quality, FXIV just offer poor replayability. the issues is not that we only get 1 or 2 dungeon per patches, the issues is that you most likely won't run that dungeon more than once unless you want the glamour they provides.

FFXIV usually have shorter side quest feel less like copy-paste ''Go kill/find 10 things nearby''. That better than WoW. But it don't matter cause those quest give nothing and there no real good reason to do them. Turn out popular contents are the one who reward the players

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

4 multi hour expensions when your main rival in the industry got 10 is not something to show proudly.

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Smells like bait, but sure why not:
Both WoW and FFXIV have released an expansion every 2 years..ish. WoW has 9 expansion packs, btw. (I hesitate to call the "classic" versions expansions...) They really aren't that different on paper. The only difference there is age.

Expansion Release (WoW):

World of Warcraft (2004)
1st Burning Crusade (2007)
2nd Wrath of the Lich King (2008)
3rd Cataclysm (2010)
4th Mists of Pandaria (2012)
5th Warlords of Draenor (2014)
6th Legion (2016)
7th Battle for Azeroth (2018)
WoW Classic (2019)
8th Shadowlands (2020)
Burning Crusades Classic (2021)
9th Dragonflight (2022)

Expansion Release (FFXIV):

A Realm Reborn (2013)
1st Heavensward (2015)
2nd Stormblood (2017)
3rd Shadowbringers (2019)
4th Endwalker (2021)

I'm not sure why the FFXIV team shouldn't be proud of their release schedule. They've been extremely predictable and open with their development.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

You also completly skipped my point where there a lack of repetable content and just jumped on the whataboutism strawman anyway.

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I don't care about your complaint because I'm not sure why FFXIV really needs any more replayability than it has; you are free to do what you want, and then do something else. Why should there be a NEED to do something more than you'd naturally want to do it? And if Devs really want you to do certain content more, they offer rewards like Mog-Tomes or mounts.

I for one am glad I'm not required to grind 1,000 fates to get some required armor piece to do some other content. Grinding just isn't fun for me. If I wanted it, I'd play a game that has it.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

We can't compare thing now cause that would just make your points less valids or something?
My point here is that if you limit your argument too ''There a whole 4 xpac ammount of content'' then it still not a lot compared to the industry standard.

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Your point is weird is the thing. "MMORPG X is inferior to MMORPG Y because it has been around longer and has more expansion packs". Or "4 packs is not a lot of content compared to the industry standard." That's your argument?

You're comparing very different games like there actually is a set industry standard across MMORPGs, let alone MMOs at all.

They're apples and oranges:

WoW and FFXIV release an expansion once every 2 years(ish).
FFXIV has been extremely consistent, very predictable.
Guildwars kinda sucks on the expansions/story release schedule and is all over the place.

WoW and Guildwars don't offer Cross Platform play;
FFXIV is on several different platforms/launchers.

WoW doesn't offer a dye system;
GW's dye system is EPIC.
FFXIV...lackluster..but it's something

GW and WoW allow you to skip expansions (that can be a pro or con)
FFXIV requires going from start to finish (unless you pay)

..What is the "Industry Standard" then? Who knows, and honestly I don't really care. If I'm having fun/getting my value, I'll keep paying. If not, I got all these other games just waiting for me.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I don't care about your complaint because I'm not sure why FFXIV really needs any more replayability than it has; you are free to do what you want, and then do something else. Why should there be a NEED to do something more than you'd naturally want to do it? And if Devs really want you to do certain content more, they offer rewards like Mog-Tomes or mounts.

I for one am glad I'm not required to grind 1,000 fates to get some required armor piece to do some other content. Grinding just isn't fun for me. If I wanted it, I'd play a game that has it.

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Just cause you don't care dosen't mean it not an issues you know. Again, in case you didn't realise. FFXIV don't really have any competition in the market, Aside for like WoW and GW2 to some extend. So what are my option? Stop playing and going to other mmo with less player where my friends don't play? In game where social aspect is important? Nah, If I want to play a MMO and play with my friend it XIV or nothing.

Oh and sorry to ask for more content from a game that make me pay a monthly fee on top of paying 60 CAD each 2 years when they release an Xpac. I really should expect better quality from people that make me pay way more than other genre.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Your point is weird is the thing. "MMORPG X is inferior to MMORPG Y because it has been around longer and has more expansion packs". Or "4 packs is not a lot of content compared to the industry standard." That's your argument?

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No, never said that and it almost like you do your best to hang on that strawman. Im just doing the same thing as you when you point out XIV dye system is lacking compared to GW2. You said there was tons of content in 4 xpac, I said I disagree cause other game from the same genre has more, therefore there a reasons why people think there is lack of contents. Anyway, like I said, it more about the fact half the content just don't give reward and therefore ain't interesting to do. Why do FATE and Yellow side quest unless they give achievement or glams? There way inferior in terms of Gils and XP to other stuff. Why is there no midcore content?

And you need to be on another level of delusion if you think compairing WoW, FFXIV and GW2 is comparing apple to orange. These are all MMO Theme park even with their differences. Why do you find it so weird people compare games with their direct competitions?

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Just cause you don't care dosen't mean it not an issues you know. Again, in case you didn't realise. FFXIV don't really have any competition in the market, Aside for like WoW and GW2 to some extend. So what are my option? Stop playing and going to other mmo with less player where my friends don't play? In game where social aspect is important? Nah, If I want to play a MMO and play with my friend it XIV or nothing.

Oh and sorry to ask for more content from a game that make me pay a monthly fee on top of paying 60 CAD each 2 years when they release an Xpac. I really should expect better quality from people that make me pay way more than other genre.


No, never said that and it almost like you do your best to hang on that strawman. Im just doing the same thing as you when you point out XIV dye system is lacking compared to GW2. You said there was tons of content in 4 xpac, I said I disagree cause other game from the same genre has more, therefore there a reasons why people think there is lack of contents. Anyway, like I said, it more about the fact half the content just don't give reward and therefore ain't interesting to do. Why do FATE and Yellow side quest unless they give achievement or glams? There way inferior in terms of Gils and XP to other stuff. Why is there no midcore content?

And you need to be on another level of delusion if you think compairing WoW, FFXIV and GW2 is comparing apple to orange. These are all MMO Theme park even with their differences. Why do you find it so weird people compare games with their direct competitions?

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Ok, Got it. Game that has been out 9 years longer than other game has more content. How dare younger game have less content!

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Ok, Got it. Game that has been out 9 years longer than other game has more content. How dare younger game have less content!

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Again, did you miss, that for the third time I said that real issues is that half of the availaible content got no replayability or just don't give reward? And Yes, being a younger game is a downside in the MMO industry, it why most MMO die out after 6 months.

You guys really go trough some nice mental gymnastic to just avoid any kind of critic people have for this game. God forbid this game can still be good, and have downside and things to improve.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Again, did you miss, that for the third time I said that real issues is that half of the availaible content got no replayability or just don't give reward? And Yes, being a younger game is a downside in the MMO industry, it why most MMO die out after 6 months.

You guys really go trough some nice mental gymnastic to just avoid any kind of critic people have for this game. God forbid this game can still be good, and have downside and things to improve.

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This is more and more sounding like a YOU problem than a game problem. If it were truly a thing that FFXIV has an issue with retaining players with stuff to do then we'd see huge decrease in numbers. You say you lack things to do, yet the opposite can be said to other people and frankly my dear it seems this is the majority of the playerbase.

And before you start playing the victim card, no. Just because people are against your points doesnt mean they find the game flawless and perfect. Sorry that your issue isnt as much of a flaw as you think it is.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

This is more and more sounding like a YOU problem than a game problem. If it were truly a thing that FFXIV has an issue with retaining players with stuff to do then we'd see huge decrease in numbers. You say you lack things to do, yet the opposite can be said to other people and frankly my dear it seems this is the majority of the playerbase.

And before you start playing the victim card, no. Just because people are against your points doesnt mean they find the game flawless and perfect. Sorry that your issue isnt as much of a flaw as you think it is.

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FFXIV community is the biggest echo chamber of posivity ive ever seen in any game. Sure people don't go around and directly say the game has no flaw but they do just like you just did. ''It not the game that wrong, it an you issues'' ''If you're not happy don't sub''. These free out of jail card are used a lot and even if I pointed tons of issues with the contents, people jump to these excuses rather and just accepting there an issues or you know, point a counter-argument that ain't just ''Well I disagree cause I don't believe it the case''

And that attitude just apply everywhere in the game. Complain about a plot-hole in the story? You bet it not bad writting, they will tell you that it just you being of bad spirit or over-analyzing. You enter a dungeon and point out that the level 80 dps only use single target 1-2-3 combo on the mobs pack? Well guess what, it not him playing bad, it you being an min-maxer monster that don't let people play like they want. SE butchered your class gameplay last patch? Clearly it an you issues and your complain are worthless, just get a new main class.

So I will ask again, Where midcore content? Why we got so much dead content that are just dead for the sake of it (Looking at you, FATE and Yellow side quest). Why don't we have more content like POTD or Eureka?

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

the issues is that you most likely won't run that dungeon more than once unless you want the glamour they provides.

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This is a you problem for sure (very likely to be trolling). No one in their right mind only runs through a dungeon or any piece of content once or twice.