Current EX trial completed without Healers

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

So you're saying if i stack 4 dancers and 2 reapers i can cover the role of 1-2 healers? Nevermind it's killing your LB generation for more damage/kills and no bonus stats for even more damage.

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In the 2nd EX kill they literally obtained and used a LB3

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

It’s just raiders crying they can’t “optimize” healers to do more dps. Meanwhile people who just clear savage/extremes week 2+ and just want to clear/farm them like me are fine with the current state of healers. This is why I can’t stand raiders tbh they ruin games with complexity and optimization.

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As an AST I can tell you in most dungeon boss fights a tankbuster comes every 60s. How? Parser? No. Stop watch timing? No.

Exaltation is on a 60s cool down and is up every time I need it for said tankbuster. I don't even need Celestial Intersection.

And its not that one ability either. We have too many healing tools for the healing "requirements" this game has. Plain and simple. No different than Shb in that regard. Healing is arguably the worst its ever been and the devs need to fix it.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

As an AST I can tell you in most dungeon boss fights a tankbuster comes every 60s. How? Parser? No. Stop watch timing? No.

Exaltation is on a 60s cool down and is up every time I need it for said tankbuster. I don't even need Celestial Intersection.

And its not that one ability either. We have too many healing tools for the healing "requirements" this game has. Plain and simple. No different than Shb in that regard. Healing is arguably the worst its ever been and the devs need to fix it.

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They need to leave it alone. Healing is fine, I don’t care if meme comp can clear without a healer or the try hard raiders can optimize and do it early expansion they are NOT the NORMAL. If i DO NOT heal the average party wipes in 99% of content. The game is FINE stop trying to get it to where it’s on your over optimized super try hard level. This is like the people who work out all the time then say it’s easy for everyone else to pick it up etc. You guys demonstrate the concept of unconscious understanding where you don’t realize the gap between you and regular average players. It’s so frustrating to see you talk about this stuff like your the norm and not the outlier.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

They need to leave it alone. Healing is fine, I don’t care if meme comp can clear without a healer or the try hard raiders can optimize and do it early expansion they are NOT the NORMAL. If i DO NOT heal the average party wipes in 99% of content. The game is FINE stop trying to get it to where it’s on your over optimized super try hard level. This is like the people who work out all the time then say it’s easy for everyone else to pick it up etc. You guys demonstrate the concept of unconscious understanding where you don’t realize the gap between you and regular average players. It’s so frustrating to see you talk about this stuff like your the norm and not the outlier.

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The point I was making in my comment is that content the devs are treating as hard, is not. EXs and Savages do not push healers like they could and should. There's plenty of easy content in the game. Ex and Savage should not be easy.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

The point I was making in my comment is that content the devs are treating as hard, is not. EXs and Savages do not push healers like they could and should. There's plenty of easy content in the game. Ex and Savage should not be easy.

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Ex is not easy. I will explain this in detail later with a fleshed out post. But you are demonstrating ignorance in relation to learning by saying it is easy.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

As an AST I can tell you in most dungeon boss fights a tankbuster comes every 60s. How? Parser? No. Stop watch timing? No.

Exaltation is on a 60s cool down and is up every time I need it for said tankbuster. I don't even need Celestial Intersection.

And its not that one ability either. We have too many healing tools for the healing "requirements" this game has. Plain and simple. No different than Shb in that regard. Healing is arguably the worst its ever been and the devs need to fix it.

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I don't think as a shield healer I had to use single target skills in current extremes outside EX2 ad phase tanks if people are doing mechanics properly, meaning no extra dmg/deaths.
For dungeon bosses tankbusters might was well not exist from our perspective if your tank is not DRK once they have the CDs with regen, all we get to do there is spam dps skills with occational raidwide heal.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Ex is not easy. I will explain this in detail later with a fleshed out post. But you are demonstrating ignorance in relation to learning by saying it is easy.

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No I'm not. I've done EXs and a couple savages due to limited time contraints. HEALING IN THEM is not hard. There aren't that many healing requirements and unless a group is struggling, 2 healers once you know the fight is redundant. That is a problem.

Now, mechanics wise, as in things to avoid, no you are correct in that EX and Savage are cut above dungeons. What I am saying is that the devs can certainly add more healing in them. That is all.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

I don't think as a shield healer I had to use single target skills in current extremes outside EX2 ad phase tanks if people are doing mechanics properly, meaning no extra dmg/deaths.
For dungeon bosses tankbusters might was well not exist from our perspective if your tank is not DRK once they have the CDs with regen, all we get to do there is spam dps skills with occational raidwide heal.

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Just false so much false ugh. I hate these high raider static takes I wish players like this wil stop giving their experiences when they are not relative to the majority of the game in party finder/duty finder. The game is not balanced around you stop crying for it to be.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

No I'm not. I've done EXs and a couple savages due to limited time contraints. HEALING IN THEM is not hard. There aren't that many healing requirements and unless a group is struggling, 2 healers once you know the fight is redundant. That is a problem.

Now, mechanics wise, as in things to avoid, no you are correct in that EX and Savage are cut above dungeons. What I am saying is that the devs can certainly add more healing in them. That is all.

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Healing is very hard. You must constantly weave.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Just false so much false ugh. I hate these high raider static takes I wish players like this wil stop giving their experiences when they are not relative to the majority of the game in party finder/duty finder. The game is not balanced around you stop crying for it to be.

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I'm not a high raider with a static. If anything I pug. That's one.

I'm just a healer who's been around the MMO block. Healing in other MMOs is actually challenging. Its not here. There is no resource management with mana outside of WHM rn. If you're AST between Lucid and Astrodyne you'll rarely run out of mana. Even with raises.

There is no managing cool downs. Like I said with Exaltation everything doesn't come up often enough. And even IF there is a buster that I can't cover with Exalt I have two charges of unecessary CI that's on an absurdly short CD. I can cover raidwides, which are also roughly on a 60s timer with ES and/or CO. I don't even use CU unless there's a stack marker or an Ahk Morn that I don't have an ES to cover. And don't get me started on Horoscope. Most of Shb I felt it was either it or CO and I like Celestial better. I still do but I'll use it more now since I can Helios it and just pop it when I want it.

So, two things I find fun with healing nonexistant in the game. What else is there?

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I'm not a high raider with a static. If anything I pug. That's one.

I'm just a healer who's been around the MMO block. Healing in other MMOs is actually challenging. Its not here. There is no resource management with mana outside of WHM rn. If you're AST between Lucid and Astrodyne you'll rarely run out of mana. Even with raises.

There is no managing cool downs. Like I said with Exaltation everything doesn't come up often enough. And even IF there is a buster that I can't cover with Exalt I have two charges of unecessary CI that's on an absurdly short CD. I can cover raidwides, which are also roughly on a 60s timer with ES and/or CO. I don't even use CU unless there's a stack marker or an Ahk Morn that I don't have an ES to cover. And don't get me started on Horoscope. Most of Shb I felt it was either it or CO and I like Celestial better. I still do but I'll use it more now since I can Helios it and just pop it when I want it.

So, two things I find fun with healing nonexistant in the game. What else is there?

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Managing cool downs/Resources as you describe is not “fun” to players like me that is what you don’t get. The current state of weaving constantly and making sure you stay alive /plus figuring out what abilities are best used where as well as optimal positioning is fun. Learning mechanics outside of ex1 rotation geometry is fun. What you described is “challenging fun” for those who want to be frustrated by the stress of being pushed to the brink. That isn’t fun for the majority and thank god the game isn’t balanced around you or majority wouldn’t play it. Aka the people like myself who quit healing early 2.0 over stuff like cleric stance.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Managing cool downs/Resources as you describe is not “fun” to players like me that is what you don’t get. The current state of weaving constantly and making sure you stay alive /plus figuring out what abilities are best used where as well as optimal positioning is fun. Learning mechanics outside of ex1 rotation geometry is fun. What you described is “challenging fun” for those who want to be frustrated by the stress of being pushed to the brink. That isn’t fun for the majority and thank god the game isn’t balanced around you or majority wouldn’t play it. Aka the people like myself who quit healing early 2.0 over stuff like cleric stance.

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Then perhaps healing wasn't meant for you?

If healing was still the same in 2.0 as it is now (with some changes obviously) people who want to play healer, would be wanting to play them.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Managing cool downs/Resources as you describe is not “fun” to players like me that is what you don’t get. The current state of weaving constantly and making sure you stay alive /plus figuring out what abilities are best used where as well as optimal positioning is fun. Learning mechanics outside of ex1 rotation geometry is fun. What you described is “challenging fun” for those who want to be frustrated by the stress of being pushed to the brink. That isn’t fun for the majority and thank god the game isn’t balanced around you or majority wouldn’t play it. Aka the people like myself who quit healing early 2.0 over stuff like cleric stance.

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Yeah, managing anything outside of 1 button spam and moving out of bad would literally just make my head explode too. Besides, what kind of RPG makes you manage your resources anyway? Would be literally unplayable, like the game was back in HW.

Idk, 5 unavoidable aoes over the span of 10 minutes isn't particularly challenging, especially considering there is conveniently new + strong healer abilities that let you ignore those instances of unavoidable damage too. (hint: lilybell, panhaima, macrocosmos etc.)

The fights looked pretty at least. :)

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

If I'm not mistaken I think we got some pretty mixed messages on healing between the different community interviews Yoshida did for Endwalker no?

I remember one of the earlier ones being really quite disappointing (Mr Happy's?) whilst he opened up and actually gave some interesting answers in one of the later ones (Zepla?).

How accurate and true to the game said answers are are of course rather questionable. I can't fault what Yoshida's done for this game but it's been shown on several occasions over the years that he doesn't always correctly understand it's finer workings.

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I rewatched Mr.happy's interview (Q3:Glare Mage)and found no information regarding healing requirement. In fact, his question was specifically about dps tools for healers and the answer he got addressed said topic.

I understand the arguement that they failed to deliver the healing intensity we've been promised, but it's disheartnening to see people resort to twisting the statement from the developers just to make strong arguement.

No matter how true your reasonsing behind the disappointment in current healer, surely there're many other better evidence than quoting the statement which devs did not say?

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Then perhaps healing wasn't meant for you?

If healing was still the same in 2.0 as it is now (with some changes obviously) people who want to play healer, would be wanting to play them.

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Then perhapes current healing isn't meant for you?

Things change. Old healer design keeps away certain groups of people. New healer design draws in new groups groups of people, but alienates the others.

Maybe it's your turn to get alienated?

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Then perhaps healing wasn't meant for you?

If healing was still the same in 2.0 as it is now (with some changes obviously) people who want to play healer, would be wanting to play them.

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This is false, the same players would be complaining because the root of the problem is people just getting better and getting bored. Those dedicated players who reach the top will always be bored, and trying to make them happy is pointless, its best to appease the masses aka the non static try hard raiders and focus on the people who just want to play the game and clear. Case in point Ex1. Some people like myself choose not to learn Ex1 but follow the triangle, others want to learn the mechanics for themselves, so they can improve even if they can clear with a basic understanding of them by following the triangle.

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

Yeah, managing anything outside of 1 button spam and moving out of bad would literally just make my head explode too. Besides, what kind of RPG makes you manage your resources anyway? Would be literally unplayable, like the game was back in HW.

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HW was extremely difficult and very unfun for a lot of people to play, hence why the game has not gone back in that direction. You are the minority face that.

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Originally Posted by Sunhwapark

Idk, 5 unavoidable aoes over the span of 10 minutes isn't particularly challenging, especially considering there is conveniently new + strong healer abilities that let you ignore those instances of unavoidable damage too. (hint: lilybell, panhaima, macrocosmos etc.)

The fights looked pretty at least. :)

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That is a vast exaggeration, those skills all are very strong but they are not up every instance you would want them, and you must manage other spells etc WHILE staying alive and avoiding death AND dpsing. I think the try hard static raiders really should try to see things from people like me who ENJOY the "one button spam" and still enjoy doing raids/savage/alliance/extremes. Clearing and farming them is still fun even if you think the job is boring. To us its not boring its exciting and involves lots of movement, thought, and high emotions. I can put on some music rap/lofi/house etc during a fight and really vibe it out.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

I rewatched Mr.happy's interview (Q3:Glare Mage)and found no information regarding healing requirement. In fact, his question was specifically about dps tools for healers and the answer he got addressed said topic.

I understand the arguement that they failed to deliver the healing intensity we've been promised, but it's disheartnening to see people resort to twisting the statement from the developers just to make strong arguement.

No matter how true your reasonsing behind the disappointment in current healer, surely there're many other better evidence than quoting the statement which devs did not say?

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I'm just going to copy a post I made earlier since you seem to have missed it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbCjPPS1RQ

Interview done in the Endwalker media tour. Healing question starts at 2:44 with reply at 4:25. Quote from yoshi-p, through his translator of course, "So with the fundamental thinking behind how we're adjusting healers, and this pertains to 5.x and beyond, we have been trying to make it so that healers are more - will require for them to perform more heals - so the content damage that you are receiving becomes a little more intense so that healers are a bit more busy."

Instead of making it "a little more intense" they seem have done, well, absolutely nothing at best and easier then it was already at worst.

at this point i dont even expect savage to hit hard anymore, just from looking at shb savages. ill be pleasantly surprised if pandemonium makes me remember macrocosmos or exaltation are even on my hotbar but im not holding my breath

its sad the only content where i actually get to use my whole kit is ultimate, and we'll only get 1 of those every 2-3 years

Okay, coming back to this topic with a clearer head on my part:

A big problem with FFXIV at the moment is that healing requirements are absolutely minimal in almost all forms of content, even the highest-end raids. And it's pretty gross that the two hardest fights in the game can be cleared without a healer - I also rescind my meme comp comment, as four dancers and two reapers is very strong because Reaper is OVERTUNED AS SHIT. The growing irrelevance of healers and SE's insistence on doing absolutely nothing about it because it would 'Alienate' healer players is infuriating. (Read: Free Cure Users) But we can't have the Sylphies being distressed, can we?

The solution to the statement; "I want to have fun playing healers." Should not be "Go do Ultimate."

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

No matter how true your reasonsing behind the disappointment in current healer, surely there're many other better evidence than quoting the statement which devs did not say?

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I probably should have been clearer but I also get the feeling that you're misreading what I'm saying.

The Mr Happy interview was disappointing because it skirted around the issues I had been raising here for years now. Clearly there was backlash over it as I distinctly remember Mr Happy having to comment later that his hands were tied with what he could ask Yoshida. This suggested that we were in for a repeat of Shadowbringers with SE plugging their fingers in their ears and plowing on forward with healers.

The Zepla interview was quite a contrast in how candidly Yoshida replied, perhaps there was less scripting? Perhaps Zepla went off script entirely? I couldn't say but it was a more interesting take and it contrasted with his response to Mr Happy ****IN MY HUMBLE OPINION**** (just to make that clear).

I'm not trying to suggest that they are making statements that they are not. You can leave that to the people that still take the whole Gordias 'healers aren't counted into DPS requirements' comedy as gospel. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Then perhapes current healing isn't meant for you?

Things change. Old healer design keeps away certain groups of people. New healer design draws in new groups groups of people, but alienates the others.

Maybe it's your turn to get alienated?

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The real question here is, why should a game with 4 distinct healer jobs spread across 2 distinct healer types be alienating anyone?

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Managing cool downs/Resources as you describe is not “fun” to players like me that is what you don’t get. The current state of weaving constantly and making sure you stay alive /plus figuring out what abilities are best used where as well as optimal positioning is fun.

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You could safely and comfortably clear Zodiark EX in PF with only Indom, Soil and Raise on your bars (assuming they don't kick you for not DPSing at least!)

Have you ever considered that the 'current state of weaving constantly' is a by product of the always be nuking corner that SE have squeezed themselves into further and further with each expansion?

And please, how on earth do you take people complaining about a fight not needing enough healing as 'raiders ruining things by trying to optimise everything'? How do those two things even connect? Zodiark is a dream come true for a healer that just wants big logs, because the incoming damage is so spaced apart that you always have your full oGCD kit up to deal with it. A vaguely competent PF pug won't even see the second Phobos.

And yet here we are, complaining about it. Because we actually want something to heal. Those horrible evil raiders :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Doragan

You guys need to realise they are making such "claims" solely to rile you up, and no other reason. I know, "but should we let claim go unchallenged?", but it ain't a claim. Just an excuse to make this thread toxic and make you mad.
Just act like they aren't there, and keep discussing. I assure you, they have been going at it for months, and they aren't the first one. I'm sure you can dig up the "Happy Healer in 5.0" thread to see that this kind of gaslighting/general behaviour has been here since ShB media tour, if not earlier. Engaging with it will only make it continue further and further. I know it's hard, but please don't pay them attention.

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ill just bump this post. Replying to AFuzzyMu11in is a waste of time and since i don't know them personally i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are trolling.

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Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

ill just bump this post. Replying to AFuzzyMu11in is a waste of time and since i don't know them personally i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are trolling.

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Regardless whether they are trolling or not, it is very clear what they want is radically different than what's being discussed here and they had made themselves clear from other threads in the past. There's no more meaningful discussion can be made, they're simply repeating all they've spouted before.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I probably should have been clearer but I also get the feeling that you're misreading what I'm saying.

The Mr Happy interview was disappointing because it skirted around the issues I had been raising here for years now. Clearly there was backlash over it as I distinctly remember Mr Happy having to comment later that his hands were tied with what he could ask Yoshida. This suggested that we were in for a repeat of Shadowbringers with SE plugging their fingers in their ears and plowing on forward with healers.

The Zepla interview was quite a contrast in how candidly Yoshida replied, perhaps there was less scripting? Perhaps Zepla went off script entirely? I couldn't say but it was a more interesting take and it contrasted with his response to Mr Happy ****IN MY HUMBLE OPINION**** (just to make that clear).

I'm not trying to suggest that they are making statements that they are not. You can leave that to the people that still take the whole Gordias 'healers aren't counted into DPS requirements' comedy as gospel. Thanks.

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You're mistaking my point. These has nothing to do with my original reply.

What the developer actually said is right there for you to examine. Feel free to judge Yoshida all you want.

As pointed out in other reply, certain posts ***clting*** Yoshida statement were simply not true at all. Enjoy your guesswork all you want, but the acutal statement and the statement quoted by some people in these forum simply don't match.

Whether the statement reflects what we see in the game is another matter, but that's not why I'm here.

If one wants to cite the statement made by the developer, at least do it correctly.

This has nothing to do with my perosnal take on healing design. Surely you understand my whole post was only about the citation, right? riiiight? but now I see what you're trying to label me . That says a lot about you

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The real question here is, why should a game with 4 distinct healer jobs spread across 2 distinct healer types be alienating anyone?

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suggestive question. It's common knowledge that nothing can please every one. There will always be some groups being alienated.

By the way, I'm not usually the type that tells people to walk away when they complain. Try ask your question to the person who was doing the "alienate" stuff, which would be the one I quoted from. I'm not the expert on such matter

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

This has nothing to do with my perosnal take on healing design. Surely you understand my whole post was only about the citation, right? riiiight? but now I see what you're trying to label me . That says a lot about you

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What the heck are you even going on about? Are you desperately trying to find some kind of personal attack in everything I say?

I simply stated I was disappointed with Yoshida's responses in the Mr Happy interview.

I then added that I felt that the Zepla interview was better. It felt less of a canned corporate response.

If you think I'm trying to imply that you are amongst the Gordias interview preachers, I'm not. I'm simply providing an example of where people genuinely and clearly are twisting the developers words and context. It's clarity, not accusation.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

suggestive question. It's common knowledge that nothing can please every one. There will always be some groups being alienated.

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Then how should I phrase it? It's an important question and it needs to be asked.

*edit* you know what? Don't answer that. I'm just going to treat you the same way that you try to treat others here. Enjoy

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Originally Posted by QooEr

at this point--

its sad the only content where i actually get to use my whole kit is ultimate, and we'll only get 1 of those every 2-3 years

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This is such a vast overexageration. In just NORMALS I have had to expend idom+sacred soil+fey union+ fey blessing+protraction+expedient+succor+emergency provisions+ LUSTRATE.

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Originally Posted by Videra

Okay, coming back to this topic with a clearer head on my part:

A big problem with FFXIV at the moment is that healing requirements are absolutely minimal in almost all forms of content, even the highest-end raids. And it's pretty gross that the two hardest fights in the game can be cleared without a healer ---But we can't have the Sylphies being distressed, can we?

The solution to the statement; "I want to have fun playing healers." Should not be "Go do Ultimate."

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The solution to your problem is to realize you still will use majority of your buttons, but you will be weaving broil with them. It's extremely interactive honestly, and if you think it isn't then healing really isn't the job for you. This isn't meant to be offense but the current iteration of healing is truly perfect to players like me.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

You could safely and comfortably clear Zodiark EX in PF with only Indom, Soil and Raise on your bars (assuming they don't kick you for not DPSing at least!)

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And yet here we are, complaining about it. Because we actually want something to heal. Those horrible evil raiders :rolleyes:

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This is your problem, as a high end hyper optimized raider, your vision of what you see is "competent/good" is vastly pushed in the direction of the top 5% of the game or less. As a average player myself I see runs that make me see multiple mechanics etc. And to restate what I said earlier!

"This is such a vast overexageration. In just NORMALS I have had to expend idom+sacred soil+fey union+ fey blessing+protraction+expedient+succor+emergency provisions+ LUSTRATE." ALL had to be used on ex1/ex2 because people are not as GOOD as you think they are, or they don't gear up whatever take your pick.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Clearly there was backlash over it as I distinctly remember Mr Happy having to comment later that his hands were tied with what he could ask Yoshida.

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This confirms my earlier Shadowbringers suspicions that the questions were pre-vetted and they were told what they could ask and what they couldn't ask. If not explicitly, then very generally "we would prefer if you wouldn't ask about that topic".

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

This is such a vast overexageration. In just NORMALS I have had to expend idom+sacred soil+fey union+ fey blessing+protraction+expedient+succor+emergency provisions+ LUSTRATE.

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Ok, the trolling is getting a little bit blatant now. No one's going to bother engaging with you if you're this obvious about it.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

This is your problem, as a high end hyper optimized raider, your vision of what you see is "competent/good" is vastly pushed in the direction of the top 5% of the game or less. As a average player myself I see runs that make me see multiple mechanics etc. And to restate what I said earlier!

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Gonna link this to my group. Look ma, I'm a high end hyper optimised raider now because the forum comedian says so.

Lol :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This confirms my earlier Shadowbringers suspicions that the questions were pre-vetted and they were told what they could ask and what they couldn't ask.

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That's a bit of a harsh way of looking at it tbh.

To quote Mr Happy himself:

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In addition, that would have been sidelined by a "we're overhauling our healers quite a bit in Endwalker so please wait a little longer for more information". I've done a few of these and know which questions are more likely to illicit a response he can answer.

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- Source

It's pretty fair to say that he didn't want to ask the sort of questions that would either get a completely useless answer or worse, make SE less inclined to give him direct interviews in the future. It's not really fair to fault him for either of those points even if it did result in an unsatisfactory QA from our perspective.

It's pretty much a given that the questions were pre-vetted though. But then that's a rather sad norm in these sort of things =/

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

It's pretty fair to say that he didn't want to ask the sort of questions that would either get a completely useless answer or worse, make SE less inclined to give him direct interviews in the future. It's not really fair to fault him for either of those points even if it did result in an unsatisfactory QA from our perspective.

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Respectfully to him at some point someone has to point out to the Emperor that they (i.e. healers) have no clothes and their systems aren't in sync with player wants (and they don't even sync with the stated goals of the developers).

And it is extremely condescending of Mr. Happy to say that the only people who are upset with healing are people who are "overblown". I am not a serious raider by any means and even my casual @$$ can see that the system doesn't reward good play, it actively punishes it.

I actually read this whole thread and it honestly looks like healers complaining there isn't enough damage (so they aren't required)... because the damage patterns are too avoidable, and thus the healing kits aren't required.

Ok, fair enough. Then there are those that say that this is a casual game and shouldn't be balanced around the high end raiders..... tale as old as time.

Game too easy for raiders.... or game too hard for casuals.

Being a story based game, I see FFXIV as tending toward the "too easy" spectrum - and I don't think it's bad. Frankly, imo raiding in this game is pointless since the raiding rewards are pointless. I guess, I just don't think of FFXIV as a real raiding game... sure there are "higher end" or "more challenging" encounters... but there's no real raid loot to speak of... so, I don't know. I guess I just don't see a purpose or benefit of tuning the game further toward the raid end of the spectrum. Sure, it means those optimized players will probably be a bit bored or play with different comps.... ok. That is the minority of players, I suspect. If I still cared about raiding, I probably would be playing FFXIV for the story and raiding in a game that is really built for that playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

THe tipping point for me is when I get bored enough to play something else for a little bit and come back once my boredom is sated. There's more to this game then playing a healer, you find something else to do and come back once you're feeling up to the task again, or you don't come back and let all the people who still think healing is the hardest role take over your spot while you play something else.

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My static had to draw straws this expansion to see who had to play a healer. Healers are so unbelievably unfun to play that it's a punishment. I'd say that's a mite worse than "eh I'll play something else for a bit!"

Healers are the only role in this game with a subset of the playerbase that thinks healing is so rocket science hard that it needs to be playable by a third grader or the sky will fall.

Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare is Terrible. Game. Design.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

My static had to draw straws this expansion to see who had to play a healer. Healers are so unbelievably unfun to play that it's a punishment. I'd say that's a mite worse than "eh I'll play something else for a bit!"

Healers are the only role in this game with a subset of the playerbase that thinks healing is so rocket science hard that it needs to be playable by a third grader or the sky will fall.

Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare is Terrible. Game. Design.

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Yeah that's about where my static is right now. Luckily I read the writing on the wall and switched off healer as my main in late ShB so I already had early dips on my DPS slot. But one of our healers is already trying to switch to DPS. The other, well, won't leave his beloved SCH behind but he's pretty sad about the state of things.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

What the heck are you even going on about? Are you desperately trying to find some kind of personal attack in everything I say?

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umm, no? what makes you think of that?

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I simply stated I was disappointed with Yoshida's responses in the Mr Happy interview.

I then added that I felt that the Zepla interview was better. It felt less of a canned corporate response.

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Yes, I have already addressed that. You see, my replies were about the statement that was intentionally twisted by many others. My first reply towards you wasn't even pointing finger at you in the slightest. While it's true I should have use a better pronoun to prevent confusion, the full contenxt of my reply was meant to correspond with my initial reply.

I don't even understand why you felt the need to explain again when my first reply towards you already stated that "I understand the arguement that they failed to deliver the healing intensity we've been promised, but it's disheartnening to see people resort to twisting the statement from the developers just to make strong arguement."

I know what you're trying to say and my statement has acknowledged the discrepcy between the official statement and in game environment. I simply wanted to get back to my original topic: the citation.

That's why in my second reply I said"feel free to judge Yoshida all you want." We've still yet to see what we've been promised, and they deserved to be called out and critized. It's within your right and I don't even plan on arguing. Then you brought out Zelpha. Speculation is not my strong suit, so I decided to just leave you at that.

I simply want to get very clear about the topic of my original post and now "I'm desperately trying to find some kind of personal attack in everything I say? "

I think I could say the same to you

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If you think I'm trying to imply that you are amongst the Gordias interview preachers, I'm not. I'm simply providing an example of where people genuinely and clearly are twisting the developers words and context. It's clarity, not accusation.

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That "Thanks" at the end of your post is certainly, totally, absolutely not snarky at all.

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*edit* you know what? Don't answer that. I'm just going to treat you the same way that you try to treat others here. Enjoy

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You're welcome to, though I don't know what you're getting at. You're mad because I play UNO card on others?

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Then perhapes current healing isn't meant for you?

Things change. Old healer design keeps away certain groups of people. New healer design draws in new groups groups of people, but alienates the others.

Maybe it's your turn to get alienated?

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Frankly I don't see why I should be alienated. Why should the people who want to play the role be alienated because the devs want to cater to the people who don't want to play the role in the first place?

Do not misunderstand me, I am all for getting more people into enjoying healing and having a bigger healing player base. How SE has done it, is where I take my disagreements. Instead of easing new players into a harder role they made the role easy and give little to no reward for getting good at it.

There is a middle ground.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

That "Thanks" at the end of your post is certainly, totally, absolutely not snarky at all.

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Then I suggest you get a grip of both your feelings and the English language itself before you come here swinging big words around like they mean anything.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

You're welcome to, though I don't know what you're getting at. You're mad because I play UNO card on others?

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No, because you are clinically incapable of accepting when you are wrong.

Case in point: I corrected a statement of yours here

It's a trait you share with a few people on here. Funnily enough the same tiny little group that does their utmost to decry, discredit and derail so much of the conversation here.

I look forward to you arguing your way out of that one. Make it entertaining.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I actually read this whole thread and it honestly looks like healers complaining there isn't enough damage (so they aren't required)... because the damage patterns are too avoidable, and thus the healing kits aren't required.

Ok, fair enough. Then there are those that say that this is a casual game and shouldn't be balanced around the high end raiders..... tale as old as time.

Game too easy for raiders.... or game too hard for casuals.

Being a story based game, I see FFXIV as tending toward the "too easy" spectrum - and I don't think it's bad. Frankly, imo raiding in this game is pointless since the raiding rewards are pointless. I guess, I just don't think of FFXIV as a real raiding game... sure there are "higher end" or "more challenging" encounters... but there's no real raid loot to speak of... so, I don't know. I guess I just don't see a purpose or benefit of tuning the game further toward the raid end of the spectrum. Sure, it means those optimized players will probably be a bit bored or play with different comps.... ok. That is the minority of players, I suspect. If I still cared about raiding, I probably would be playing FFXIV for the story and raiding in a game that is really built for that playstyle.

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And the thing is 90% of healers even hybrid casual/competitive players like myself still find healing fun/tough at times. Statics are not the basis, i don’t use them. I enjoy glare/broil/malefic weaving it’s perfect. I love that the scholar opener “optimized” is CS ED bam. No complex order of buttons no, specific timing, no changing up between different raids for uptime, I get to press broil and focus on planning for mechanics. AOE coming are we all stacked soil, is soil going to heal us up enough? Ok fey. Another while soil is down and fey? indom all those down maybe broil illumination into broil eT into succor? who knows this is fun this what healers currently enjoy when they are not forced to super optimize for X reasons

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

My static had to draw straws this expansion to see who had to play a healer. Healers are so unbelievably unfun to play that it's a punishment. I'd say that's a mite worse than "eh I'll play something else for a bit!"

Healers are the only role in this game with a subset of the playerbase that thinks healing is so rocket science hard that it needs to be playable by a third grader or the sky will fall.

Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare is Terrible. Game. Design.

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This is such an overstatement one glare/broil cookie clicker is fun for most people and two you are not just pressing those buttons you are WEAVING behind them. My BPM stays active always i don’t get downtime ever.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

And the thing is 90% of healers even hybrid casual/competitive players like myself still find healing fun/tough at times. .

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You talk a lot about yourself and say 90% of the playerbase is like you but in reality you dont have the data to prove it and if anything this whole forum is a proof against that claim, so where your 90% data come from to claim all of the healers just want a class to be designed for lazy people who want to do well without effort?

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No complex order of buttons no, specific timing, no changing up between different raids for uptime

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Literally the job still has all of that (even if its now as braindead as it can get), you have specific timings for skills like chain stratagem and heals, the "complex" order of buttons is not present in the game but you could argue that depending on the heal intensity is still present and caster uptime strats have been around since ever and wont be gone soon, in fact for healer right now its more impotant than ever now they have gotten rid of the caster gcd delay, what you ask for literally goes against what healers are: casters (so classes that need to stand still to gain uptime) that are efficient with heals (time based mechanics) not easy classes for lazy players that don't want to learn, in fact no class should be like that

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

You talk a lot about yourself and say 90% of the playerbase is like you but in reality you dont have the data to prove it and if anything this whole forum is a proof against that claim, so where your 90% data come from to claim all of the healers just want a class to be designed for lazy people who want to do well without effort?

Literally the job still has all of that (even if its now as braindead as it can get), you have specific timings for skills like chain stratagem and heals, the "complex" order of buttons is not present in the game but you could argue that depending on the heal intensity is still present and caster uptime strats have been around since ever and wont be gone soon, in fact for healer right now its more impotant than ever now they have gotten rid of the caster gcd delay, what you ask for literally goes against what healers are: casters (so classes that need to stand still to gain uptime) that are efficient with heals (time based mechanics) not easy classes for lazy players that don't want to learn, in fact no class should be like that

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Because when I compare my dps on raids/trials with act etc versus that on fflogs i see i fall in the 75th percentile often. I don’t upload my logs so don’t bother checking pretty sure only stuff up there is some random old jank from when i was much worse or didn’t know fights.

And you couldn’t be more wrong about uptime stuff. Sure there is positioning ahead of time but with slide casting it’s very easy to do that. I’m talking about the random order of buttons to fulfill a 90 second window opener, which does not exist for healers thankfully. If you think broil chain broil EDX3 is hard or optimized like raiders want then okay. I see their cries daily and memes. I’m not lazy, i’m not selfish, i just want to focus on mechanics and pressing my healing buttons not some rigid order to optimize everything.