This precludes the possibility of there existing people that have pride in producing high damage, but at the same time are genuinely nice people who help people using nothing but kind and encouraging words. They do exist. They aren't some unicorn found only in myth.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeiUshu
Treating everyone with high damage as some elitist pig is WRONG. It makes you just as bad as the people you seem not to like.
I just wanted to point out a double standard...
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06-20-2014, 09:37 PMTiggy
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06-20-2014, 10:18 PMLemon8orI don't see how I'm missing the forest when you said this:Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
It does mean something. If a monk is able to keep GL3 all fight, he is doing much better DPS than if he didn't. It takes 9 GCD or Perfect Balance to get back into GL3 mode so the attacks you're padding during then is not doing as much damage as it should. With my gears, a True Strike can do upwards of 1050 damage. Without GL3, that same True Strike would do 826 damage. That's just a single skill. So yeah if I spot a monk losing GL3 when he shouldn't, he's not doing good DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
It's different for different people. I play healer and I agree with the one you're quoting. Like I said, Fist abilities has a recast timer of 3 seconds so the best you can do with it is to sacrifice 1 GCD ability to keep up GL. Sometimes you don't have that kind of margin. For example, in Titan EX, you're about to hit Snap Punch but Titan jumps so you didn't connect so you have about 5 seconds left on GL3 timer. Now when he lands for Geocrush, you have to hit Snap Punch immediately as soon as he's targetable or you would and will lose GL3 and end up in GL1. Factor in the Fist of Fire change, you either do 5% less damage on that Snap Punch or not even able to get GL1. I'd prefer keeping Fist of Fire compared to the alternatives. Why? Because sometimes you don't have the leisure to wait 1 or 2 seconds. My first turn 8 kill was with 2 seconds left on the enrage timer. If I had chosen to take less damage, it would have been a wipe. I know you haven't gotten to encounters that you need to push your DPS as best as possible so you probably wouldn't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
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06-20-2014, 10:27 PMAmnesiaHaze
i feel like people have too high expectations on others in this game , it can be partially caused by the unforgiving game mechanics i guess, i noticed the more unforgiving mechanics in that particular instance , the more hostility (ct for example :) ) , anyways my point is people should be more patient with others and not taking a good team as something granted , instead of insulting try helping less experienced people and challenge themselves to complete it even under harder conditions
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06-20-2014, 10:29 PMDwillExtreme generalization based on anecdotal evidences provides no weight to your argument whatsoever. A lot of people love to use parses to be able to compare themselves, how they can improve, how they can help improve others. Not everyone that loves to be competitive is an egomaniacal jerk.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeiUshu
People are taking the might be harassed thing way to the extreme. While yes, people get harassed over poor performance once in a blue moon, it will happen regardless of having parsers or not.
Parsers are not the devil, they are tools that can VASTLY enhance the gameplay of a lot of people in meaninful way and can be a huge assets to guild that want to raid and are looking in ways to legitally improve their group's performance.
Oh and your stance on parsers mixed with what your signature is saying is just totally ironic, turth be told. -
06-20-2014, 10:43 PMMeiUshu
ahh but it does when it relates to me, I cant speak for others do I? I dont generalize either, based on my experience and knowledge, 100 % of all those that used parsers where I was concerned were bad, uneducated and insulting, there was no exception to this. If you re-read what I said, I did say this much that I have YET to meet nice people or even decent people when it comes to the use of parsers. So in my experience, knowledge and the like, there are no good people to this, until I meet one and it doesnt exist yet. How can you say is generalizing is beyond me or maybe I wasnt clear happens, also who are you to tell me I have to say NOT ALl are bad, when I only met bad people ? see my point
Mei -
06-20-2014, 10:47 PMDwillhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeneralizationQuote:
Originally Posted by MeiUshu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...generalization
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdotal
Read these and then tell me you're not making sweeping generalization totally based of on your own anecdotal evidence. Your arguments holds no weight whatsoever in this discussion. -
06-21-2014, 01:41 AMTiggyHow about all those people using parsers that did great damage but you never knew they did? I guarantee you meet them, but because they aren't terrible people you never knew. Humans have a tendency to only notice and remember bad things.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeiUshu
The simple fact is you don't have statistics for every player you encounter. You don't know who has a parser and who doesn't. You only know that people who start trying to correct other players most likely do. You have ZERO information on how many people you've encountered that used a parser right there in your party without ever causing a single problem. This is why anecdotes are useless information. -
06-21-2014, 01:49 AMgivemeraptorsYes, I know. I was just trying to shorten my response. To clarify, GL3 to me is like a baseline; if your MNK can't keep up their stacks then the DPS question is moot to begin with and how in the world did they get to Turn 8 without being able to maintain that? In any event, you still don't need a parser to see that. A more holistic approach is better for MNKs, but like I've said before, they are the hardest class to gauge from a distance. Less flashy moves, hard to keep track of whether they're hitting all positionals, etc. That could just be me though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon8or
I get that you won't always be able to switch fists during a fight. But it is possible to do so without a DPS loss in many cases. If I see a MNK doing so while also keeping GL3 up I will think they are better than a MNK that doesn't switch fists and maintains GL3. Am I expecting it? Not at all. But If I see it, the former gets my commendation and maybe a friend request.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon8or
Whether I've gotten to Second Coil is moot. Second Coil isn't the only time you would need to push your DPS to the limit. Maybe a DD died/dc'd during Titan Ex heart phase. Heck, maybe you're the only one left standing at the Demon Wall in Amdapor Keep and it still has 40% health. Second Coil isn't the end all/be all when it comes to amazing DPS. The bar is set higher to begin with, definitely. But extenuating circumstances can push that bar up in non-coil content as well. Just look at the people complaining about the required ilvl for Haukke HM. Those players definitely wish their "undergeared" DPS were generating the best DPS possible.
Which brings us back to parsers because good DPS in this game is valuable. But maximum potential DPS? The way FFXIV is designed means that almost no encounter will ever need the maximum possible DPS to beat. Without Echo (sometimes even with) how many full parties, i.e. all eight players, are actually entering Extreme primals or Coil with the minimal ilvl required? How many light/full parties are entering anything at the minimum ilvl? It is possible to beat the fight at those levels, and anything higher is that much more leeway you have.
But even then, this argument isn't about trying to maximize DPS using parsers, it's about pinpointing the weak link in a party using parsers. And as I've stated repeatedly, from my perspective I think it's possible to do so without parsers, and from that standpoint alone I don't think they are necessary. -
06-21-2014, 02:04 AMNoctisUmbra
If a tank plays badly, he loses hate or is unable to properly mitigate a specific phase/skill and dies due to taking far too much damage.
If a healer plays badly, people in the party die to unavoidable damage (typically the tank) even when it is of a reasonable amount.
When the party's DPS is low, it is noticed by the fights taking longer. However, the typical party double the DPS players in it. Simply pointing out that DPS isn't where it needs to be often leads to each dps player saying they are doing fine, essentially implying it is somebody else. Politics.
I've had it happen when I tanked and wiped repeatedly due to adds not dying fast enough or boss fight taking way too long, and when I asked the DPS about it (in the nicest way possible, remaining fully positive and constructive even as my patience wore incredibly thin) they would say they were doing fine and even say exactly what they should be doing as what they were doing. As if they memorized it, but couldn't execute and refused to admit it.
I've also had it happen when I played as a DPS among many, though to a lesser degree as I would carry more than my end of the weight by performing damn near optimally. I'm a DPS main, and my chief pleasure in playing XIV is being able to put out maximum levels of DPS on each job. Even then, bosses would take considerably longer to kill than what would be expected based on the gear level of the DPS. When brought up, more deflection.
Ultimately, parsers cut right through that crap. Is somebody under-performing? It says so right there in the data. The problem comes from how people chose to make use of this information they now have access to - and that's the reason SE is careful/conservative when it comes to this. I'm of the opinion that more transparency in party performance is a good thing, and people need to learn to make constructive use of the info. Saves a lot of time that is otherwise wasted playing the blame game. -
06-21-2014, 02:09 AMTiggyOf course there are other moments, but those, as you pointed out, tend to be when errors happen and people are trying to repair a bad situation by pushing hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
Coil 2 however requires this as a course of action where any mistake turns into a wipe with no possibility of fixing the error, and even in cases of no errors your damage may easily be too low to beat the enrage.
I'm sure you can appreciate how different the situations are.
T8 would like to have words with you. T8 absolutely requires maximum possible DPS to beat the enrage. If you're not winning because of 100 combined group DPS it can be EXTREMELY difficult to pinpoint who could be pushing 20-30 more or even if one person was 70 lower than normal and it was mostly on them to improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
Please stop assuming all content is the same. Not all content has echo, and players haven't out geared all that content either. There is absolutely legitimately difficult content where this level of min maxing is 100% required. You're insistence that such content doesn't exist will not magically make the second coil go away. -
06-21-2014, 02:16 AMLemon8orBecause RNG and group strategy can have big impact on how often/not often you lose GL3. Turn 8 is pretty much a dummy fight that you should never lose GL3 unless you're dead but turn 6 briar method combined with RNG or turn 7 if you repeatedly get Shriek, again RNG.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
And that's exactly what I was telling you. There are several cases where you can switch stances without a DPS loss. A Snap Punch under Fist of Earth is a DPS loss. Whether it's big or small is another unrelated argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
And I will just agree that we disagree that it's possible to track what other people are doing when the fights requires a lot of concentration on yourself and the boss. For fights that it doesn't require that much concentration? Well you already overgear them.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
Second Coil is not a moot point as you have no idea how tight the DPS check can be if you haven't seen it. Imagine a boss with adds estimated roughly double the HP of Twintania, no echo and you have to down it in the same 13 minutes but wait you haven't killed Twin.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
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06-21-2014, 02:29 AMNoctisUmbra
The irony of it all is, people still use parsers. They can't be tracked. The only way to be punished is if you use them and speak out in game with numbers and harass someone with it.
If a player has far lower DPS than they should, they are doing something wrong. If they are doing something (probably many things) wrong, these things can be noticed by observing said player.
There are, however, multiple DPS players aside from the fact that any fight worth a damn requires a high level of concentration on oneself and the enemy/encounter mechanics. Furthermore paying attention to each and every DPS player's actions is unreasonable, and if not impossible, will at least reduce your performance.
That said, if somebody in the party is secretly using a parser, and isn't abrasive about it in party - doesn't even share any of his insight related to the parser, they will immediately see any patterns of specific DPS players underperforming. Knowing who to look out for, they can then observe that single player, and undoubtedly notice their mistakes and then proceed to point this out to them. If they're particularly nice, they will do it constructively. No mention of parsers or numbers. No offense. Mission accomplished(?). However, it was a parser in the first place that allowed for this insight.
Have you or someone you know been called out on underperforming without the mention of numbers? There's a good chance the person did indeed have a parser, but was careful in how they used that information. -
06-21-2014, 02:45 AMDwillExactly. And the people who said that the community would harass the one with low DPS with a parser already would be harassing people. Instead of saying: "Your dps is x, you should be doing y", it's going to be: "Your DPS is too low!!". The latter which I have yet to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra
People who have no knowledge about parser except for the fact that it can track your DPS have got to get over their baseless fear. -
06-21-2014, 02:53 AMgivemeraptorsYou're just repeating what I said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
The end result is the same: pushing DPS to the limit. My point was that just because I haven't done Second Coil doesn't mean I haven't ever had to push DPS or wipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
And again:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
But yeah, I know what an exception is thank you. A massive change like the implementation of parsers shouldn't be weighted by one fight though. Especially when it will affect all DoW/DoM content. I can see especially vicious behavior occurring in low-level dungeons where people are:Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
1) learning
2) don't care about optimal rotations because it's superfluous.
Don't even know where you get that I think all content has echo. Are fights tightly tuned? Sure. Are they so tuned that a parser is NEEDED? No. Is it worth introducing parsers for the sole purpose of Coil when it will affect far more than just Coil? No. Do people seem to be clearing Coil fine without an official parser? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
I'm not saying everyone is overgeared, but the way the game is structured means that people will usually be over the ilvl requirements for the fight. I'm not saying there isn't difficult content (though I typically find the difficulty of this game to be overexaggerated but that is a different discussion), but I don't think that content requires min/maxing and neither does Yoshi-P:
"Nova Crystallis: What did you think when the Second Coil of Bahamut was cleared in three weeks?
Yoshida: Amazing. We watch and track the progress the whole time, and we saw that out of the whole world three different groups were up there at the top with everyone else floundering on the first levels. Blue Garter got it first, but the others were right after – it was very close. When designing the Binding Coil, we expected that at the third Turn [Turn 8], players would need at least the Soldiery gear to progress. We designed it with a certain DPS requirement in mind, but when those three groups came in and were over that DPS requirement already, that blew us away as we didn’t expect them to get that far. If you look back and think, they were better than the requirement when they got got there..."
If you're not decked out in full soldiery/high allagan then you're not even meeting the minimum requirement and thus yeah, min/maxing will be required. But that's because you're actively pushing the limits. You're going 110%. That is not required. That is not a good reason to introduce a parser.
You say I'm ignoring content? I think you have tunnel vision. Coil is not all people do. Min/maxing is your preference. It is not a requirement. A parser would have consequences that should be considered from all aspects, not just what the raiding crowd desires because it will affect more than just Coil. -
06-21-2014, 03:02 AMNoctisUmbra
It's not hard to tell when somebody in your party is parsing, but is all hush hush about it either. You just need to know what to look for.
Very often at the end of soldiery runs or any kind of 4 man dungeon I'll receive much more commendations than I would expect as a dps (it typically goes to the tank that performs well or the healer) or I'll have someone compliment me in some implicit way, without any quantitative data. Like an affirmative nod that is grounded in evidence, but cannot be spoken publicly.
People always talk about players who parse being abusive or mean. That's because those are the only times they know a person is parsing. The players who parse regularly, and say nothing that explicitly reveals this will go completely unnoticed. Players who provide valuable constructive advice/criticism without mentioning specific numbers, or who are able to quickly find the source of the party's problem will often be celebrated for doing so seemingly without parsing, even though they likely were.
People see what they want to see. Players who are anti-parsers are typically players who know, in the back of their mind at least, that they do not perform as well as they are required by the content they wish to participate in and are afraid of being called out.
EDIT:
I should further add that in the case of lower level dungeons - where players are leveling up and learning - the process is sorely lacking in valuable DPS walls. The dungeons are far too easy. The class quests utterly useless. Teaching a player who is leveling up a DPS class/job how to properly play that class/job should be the focus of the class/job quests. Without hitting a certain mark, they should be unable to progress. The mark doesn't have to be set very high - something that can easily be reached with the right rotation but is rather difficult without. -
06-21-2014, 03:14 AMdarkstarpoet1
it's all because these little children get upset when it's pointed out they aren't helping the group. they are actually hurting it. yoshi is more worried about the feelings of that one child than he is of the feelings of the other 7 people in the raid that are failing due to that poor dps.
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06-21-2014, 03:16 AMDwillWhat evidence do you possess that gives your argument credibility ? On what basis can you officially say that introducing a parser will have such dire consequences ?Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
Just so you know, before you answer, generalization and anecdotal evidence are not valid arguments for obvious reasons.
Exactly. The image projected by those who have such a firm stance is one of self-defense due to being guilty of underperforming and trying to hide behind the veil of people's inability to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra
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06-21-2014, 03:36 AMTiggy
In your zeal to dissect each individual sentence (like that proves anything anyone lol) you failed to ascertain the primary point of my argument. I'll sum it up in my response to this paragraph.
I can put it into so many words, but the simple fact is this paragraph right here shows that you do not understand what we are trying to say. You're just wrong. There are indeed fights tuned that hard. Yes, it's worth introducing something players can use to determine their performance because that does have more uses than just the second coil. No, most people do not clear the later turns of coil without parsers. I'm not aware of even a single group that does. I'm sure some exist, but it is most definitely not the majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
You don't know what you're talking about, but you're doing a great job of trying to act like it. Anyone who does understand what we are saying would see through you due to that paragraph alone.
No sir. You have tunnel vision. You think we are ignoring other content with only the new coil in mind. The new coil is nothing more than the best example of how this type of content could be used. It is in no way the only place it would be useful. New players learning their class for the first time could find it very valuable even in iLv 50 gear. You aren't for a single second putting someone else's shoes on to see how they fit. You, are guilty of the crime of not considering this from all aspects. You only consider it from yours, and you blame use for that crime simply because the second coil is a great example and the only reason we keep using it as an example is because you continue to push your arguments into more extreme rhetoric when you say thinks like "The way FFXIV is designed means that almost no encounter will ever need the maximum possible DPS to beat." So naturally we have to supply you with an example to show why you're wrong and that inevitably brings us to the coil as a prime example. You fail to consider other places this would be useful when you push the rhetoric into such an extreme angle. You see only the abuse that it could cause despite the fact that keeping players in the dark about how well they perform clearly isn't working either. The game gives ZERO feedback to DPS about how well they perform. None what-so-ever. Do you really thing that's an adequate system? Many of us don't and think the game needs to take a step further. Is the answer to that a in fight DPS meter? In my opinion no, but to do absolutely NOTHING at all to try and fix an obvious problem the game has is also a poor answer. While you may be paralyzed by fear that some people could abuse it I would rather take a glass half full approach and find a way to design it so that it can benefit as many people as possible and minimize abuse. For that we are not terrible people. We are innovators who believe there MUST be a better way.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
How many people do you think told Thomas Edison to stop making the light bulb because candles were good enough? -
06-21-2014, 05:23 AMgivemeraptors
I'm just going to clarify the trend of this thread and how I feel about it but first:
??????????????????Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
Where did this happen?
Moving on...
The game does give feedback to DPS. Did you kill the adds before they wiped the party? Did you kill the boss before enrage? This thread started because someone thought there was a double standard in performance visibility, but there's nothing invisible about mobs/bosses not dying fast enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
Then it became a matter of, "well how can we tell who is doing the low DPS?" To which I responded: just observe how they play. There are eight people in your party. That's potentially eight pair of eyes to catch sub-par playing. In 4-man content it's even easier to observe other players and give feedback without the assistance of a parser.
Then it became "but you can't observe if someone is min/maxing based on observation alone" To which I said: That may be true, but min/maxing isn't required in any part of this game not even T8. Which Yoshi-P has said himself. The people who cleared it were going above and beyond what he believed was possible and what the fight was tuned for and thus is an unrealistic standard to hold to everyone else to and a poor defense for putting parsers in the game when they are currently unneeded.
Now it's become: "You haven't even gotten to the Second Coil so you don't know what you're talking about." And I'm just gonna go: :rolleyes:
...and leave this conversation.*
*Parsers won't be implemented now or in the near-future and that's pretty much all I need to be satisfied. -
06-21-2014, 05:39 AMTiggyReally? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2204282Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
I don't care if Yoshi said butteflies fly out of his behind. T8/9 are absolutely that tough. You are flat out wrong since there IS content in the game that is that hard. If his intentions were as you said then he is most definitely NOT making that kind of game when it comes to end game content. Besides he has also said on numerous occasions that there is tough content in the game designed for those types of players. He was even saying this before 2.0 launched in reference to the first coil. So you need to find some way to come to terms with the fact that this is a casual game that most definitely has some non-casual end game components.
Also, the quote you so nicely paraphrased was not given and credence to the idea that parser were unnecessary at all. The actual quote was this.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/162520
Quote:
Exceeding our expectations by leaps and bounds, we were astounded to find the final turn of the Second Coil of Bahamut has been cleared by an intrepid group of players hailing from the Order of the Blue Garter! Congratulations─your skill and commitment is an inspiration to adventurers everywhere. We look forward to seeing more players rise to the challenge of the Second Coil and triumph against the greatest dangers in the realm.
No, He commended them and their commitment and said they were an inspiration to others. They did not say it was above and beyond what they believed was possible. At all.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
This part was entirely made up by you.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
He did NOT say for even a second that there was or was not any unrealistic standard and it was in no way related to parsers at all. You're doing some serious mental gymnastics to stretch his quote to mean things it literally did not even talk about.
I even said earlier that I don't think a parser was the right solution to this. It's ok though. Put it in small text like it won't be noticed or something and keep acting like I didn't already agree on that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
It comes down to this. You think nothing at all should be done in any way shape or form to assist players in improving their skills. You think the only solution is to "watch them" while you're in the middle of a raid. I'm glad you think your so elite that you can do your own rotations and focus on other people at the same time, but not everyone is and therefore that's a terrible solution or the lack of any solution at all. Something needs to be done. In the current environment the difficult battles promote hostility between players. I simply wish the game to feature some manner in which those players could practice before coming into raid scenarios. This would improve player skill and confidence and help to reduce the vitriolic encounters this exact thread was created to discuss. If you can't see the value in that then please by all means continue living your life with so much skill you can watch and deal with everyone else during a fight. The rest of us who have difficulty multitasking would like something better to train on. You need to try and understand these people better because right now you're the elitist saying "god it's easy just watch their rotations during battle" like it's an easy thing to do. It's not. -
06-21-2014, 06:11 AMLemon8orThe things you mentioned is barely the tips of the iceberg. You can try and watch all you want but if that's really all you're watching for as indicator of good DPS, you have a lot to learn about each and every single job.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
And I'd just ask you how do you know this when you haven't even beaten T5, let alone T8? How do you know everyone who beats it is not min/maxing? As Tiggy pointed out, you're imagining things Yoshi is not saying at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
And where did they say they didn't expect any group to have enough DPS? They only mentioned intrepid groups that push to turn 9. And I agreed with you that people had to min/max to clear turn 8, please read the person I'm quoting's post.Quote:
Originally Posted by ispano
Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
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06-21-2014, 06:13 AMNoctisUmbraTo be honest, if I was still playing the game at the pre-Twintania level with echo and a whole new tier of being over-geared, I might have also thought it to be an easy thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
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06-21-2014, 07:29 AMispanoThe funny thing about this was that the dev team did not expect any group to have enough DPS for at least several weeks after the first T8 kill. Now granted, part of this is due to finding a way to use one tank, but just that simple fact means people had to min/max to clear it. And even if they couldn't use one tank, they would have to min/max even more to beat enrage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon8or
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06-21-2014, 08:37 AMGardes
The 'just look at what people are doing' argument is stupid. It's slower and either you start looking for who the weak links are after multiple failures on DPS checks or you have to constantly scrutinize everybody all the time.
Either cases still has you trying to find the weak links anyway, exactly just what parser using players are already doing. -
06-21-2014, 09:16 AMDouble
Seems there's literally nothing not worth complaining about nowadays.
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06-21-2014, 11:57 AMZona
I agree with OP
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06-21-2014, 12:00 PMVelox
I agree with whatever the popular opinion in this thread is
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06-21-2014, 12:36 PMispanoI was trying to enforce what you said. I'm on your side of the fence for this argument. :p Basically the quote about them being surprised people got past T8 so quickly, when it was designed to take more gearing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon8or
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06-21-2014, 12:51 PMTharianActually all 3 of those examples could result in a ban. The first two because of the anti-harassment clause of the Terms of Service. And the third one because it is fairly obvious that the person making the comment is using some form of 3rd Party Software to arrive at the cited number and thus is at fault for also violating the Terms of Service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangl
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06-21-2014, 01:47 PMWizhardProve it. Maybe im a savant and i can pick up all that info from just reading the combat log(which is where the parser gets it btw).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharian
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06-21-2014, 02:05 PMViridianaYou can read SMN dots from the combat log that doesn't show them? Bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizhard
And before you say it, parsers get dot info from memory. -
06-21-2014, 02:11 PMWizhardNot in this game it doesnt. It actually simulates the dot damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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06-21-2014, 02:13 PMispanoNo, most of the current Parsers used for XIV pull the information straight from memory. They used to estimate it, but not anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizhard
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06-21-2014, 02:14 PMDwillQuote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
Where's your answer on that ? I'm afraid I might be waiting a long time for an answer, seeing as you still have zero valid arguments thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
And you can keep hitching a free ride for under performing without anyone calling you on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
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06-21-2014, 02:14 PMViridianaGet with the times, man. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizhard
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06-21-2014, 02:20 PMWizhardOh really? Care to link me the change in any parser patch/update where it says it pulls dot ticks from memory?Quote:
Originally Posted by ispano
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06-21-2014, 02:36 PMispanoYou should have kept readingQuote:
Originally Posted by Wizhard
"The plugin stores the original in-game flying text DoT tick amounts. This will save people a ton of effort if they want to validate the simulation themselves. Just right-click the encounter, and search for the phrase "DoT Tick". These can be copied to clipboard and exported to excel, and analyzed independently from ACT."
So, again, it can't read individual dot ticks, simply because they don't exist to the client. The client only knows the lump tick all your dots do. -
06-21-2014, 02:44 PMWizhard
Very well you got me there. But it brings me back to my original point then. Prove that im not just looking at the combat log and dot ticks and saying that your dps is 200=)
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06-21-2014, 02:47 PMispanoHonestly, I don't care if someone uses a Parser or not, even if they talk about it. I'm not going to report someone for it anyways since I feel it's something we should have access to in the first place. And having something official, party based or not, would help accuracy of the information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizhard
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06-21-2014, 03:10 PMTharianCorrect me if I am wrong, but isn't Square-Enix allegedly in the finishing stages of implementing the Add-On Feature for this game that will allow people to write their own add-ons for the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by givemeraptors
If true then Parsers would at that time arguably become Legal in the form of an add-on that utilizes Square-Enix's Add-On features. So saying that it won't be implemented in the near future kind of depends on how near in the future the Add-On feature will be implemented, doesn't it?
And how would you be looking at my (I'm a Summoner) DoT ticks when your Combat Log (much less mine) doesn't record them in the first place. It's impossible to look at something that doesn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizhard