Dev blog: New Feast rewards

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Well, considering you're now comparing placement in a mass-market video game to the Olympics - I think this argument has pretty much run its course. You feel entitled to an ego stroke that lasts forever, I feel entitled to getting my grubby little hands on old rewards long after they're relevant, and ne'er the two views shall meet.

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You can cop out if you want, the idea of competition is there. I know it's hard for you to admit you were wrong, but it's whatever. You can literally look at any game with structured PVP and see they work with the same mindset. I just used a more extreme example to make it VERY SIMPLE for you to understand since you seem to be having trouble with the concept.

Why wouldn't I feel entitled to keep my reward exclusive when that was what it was marketed to be? That is the nature of what competing is. If you have a problem with that then you shouldn't be PVPing at all. Why should you be entitled to what other people worked for? you want a participation trophy?

Also also find it funny you ignore the rest of my post and single out one statement to cop out, keep being disingenuous till the end champ!

I walked away because it's a waste of time to talk to walls. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

Besides, I was more interested in looking up the price of authentic Olympic participation medals. Think Yoshi-P would sell me an old Top 100 mount for $300?

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Originally Posted by Sindele

I walked away because it's a waste of time to talk to walls. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

Besides, I was more interested in looking up the price of authentic Olympic participation medals. Think Yoshi-P would sell me an old Top 100 mount for $300?

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Nah, it's quite clear you have nothing to say and you don't want to admit you were wrong. It's ok

Also I would advise you to not real world trade by getting someone other persons account, because that would be the only way you would be able to get a hellhound mount from a previous season. I wouldn't want to see you get banned for breaking the ToS ;]

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Originally Posted by Sindele

The only disingenuous argument here is your repeated claim that because people want to see re-releases outside of the top 100 structure that that means they want it on the GS, the Mog Station, or other similarly trivial methods. Nobody's saying it has to be necessarily easy or immediately available.. except you.

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I think this is what everyone else is saying. Thanks Sindele.

Ok so:

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Originally Posted by Aviars

It does matter when you win and lose games

For a extreme example lets say you lose 200 games at 0 rating and obviously as a result you have 0 rating. Then say you win 75 games in a row and win the average 25 points per game. Wow imagine that, you now have a sub 50% win-rate with a high platinum rating.

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Yeah so thank you for validating my point, you sucked for 200 games managed to somehow win less than half of that amount but yeah! you're so skilled to be in the top 100 you did an awesome job to win 75 out of 275 matches while the guy that won 140 out of 275 matches isn't in the top 100 because obviously he's less skilled than you, after all he won 65 more time than you... "Logic!"

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Originally Posted by Aviars

you can also say that losses in lower tiers harm your rating less than losses in higher tiers, if you start to get all of your losses in platinum or diamond then you will basically lose your progress when you get a loss compared to gold and lower. This is especially true in the beginning of the season where everyone starts at zero to matchmaking is more volatile.

Also champ. There is no PVP game that limits the amount of games you are allowed to play in a respective season. it would be even more nonsensical to do it in a game mode that starts everyone's ratings at zero, cause then people would want to wait until the ratings settle to make their rating push.

There is a reason why your type of thinking isn't utilized buddy.

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Yeah there's isn't, but in one of your other post you used the olympics as an example. have you ever seen any real competition that test skill allow you to cancel out one of your losses by doing more matches?
There's indeed a reason why videogames don't do that... because I know it might be a difficult concept to grasp to someone like you who seems to value your performance in one as some kind of life accomplishement, but it's a "game"
They want as much people to play it as long as possible, if you can either be good or sink enough time in it to crawl to the top then it make perfect sense as a buisness decision, but it got nothing to do with promoting skill.

There's a reason e-sport competitions are in a tournament format and not point based buddy.

So you can argue all you want and shut your ears to anyone else believing you're right and everyone else around you is wrong like any self absorbed person, but the truth is you want your reward for the feeling you get when you see someone feel bad because only you get to have something they would have wanted too. Like a kid in a playground with his expensive toy. If it were just to remember or show other that you ranked a title would suffice.

I mean its nice for those PVP players but seeing how the Ananta has just a recolor and a badly flying mount (and not glamour) it just annoys me a bit to see such a good looking mount behind a time and number limit. Why not make it just a time limit? When will you start to make it fair and introduce this in a lot of other content? Because right now if you do the hardest content in the game the price for it is not limited thus anyone can get it (which its how it should be..have something exclusive for a while and maybe a year later people can get it too). Somehow PVP is special and gets something that is limited in both ways..at the same time there is no rank decay, nothing to stop cheaters or people with alts going at it.

Looks more like a HEALER ONLY players rewards for me.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Oh sure go ahead explain to me why the diamond guy that got 354 victory over 751 matches is more skilled than the diamond guy 153 victory over 225 matches. because that's how this system work.

You can rank with a winrate under 50% meaning you lost more than half of your matches. Just because you had more time to sink into it which is my point.

That's plain stupid, if you want to bring up skill then everyone should have the same number of matches.

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Individual skill doesnt matter if the game is so incredibly unbalanced.

The best will still be the best anyway, you can look at top 100 and there will be people who clearly don't deserve it, and got there because of lucky match making.

The problem is, feast doesn't have enough player base for rating to be really something to be relayed on.

Last season I missed top 100 by 12 points, and you know what? I didn't even got so mad for losing an armor I wanted so bad, just made me realize I can push further next season to earn my prize.

I think that's the problem with FF community, it feels like people are allergic to making effort.

I'm not the best, I'm average if anything, but still, almost made it to the top which people say it's impossible to get. It only takes you a little bit of effort to actually learn the mode, your job, and map awareness. I can say it's not that hard, and honestly? Pvp is quite fun and not all "urr durr elitists" or wintrading.

Tl;dr try playing a full season and really commit to learning before saying it's impossible.

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

Well it's a top 100 prize, not everything should be free for all, unfortunately. People spend months working on their rankings for these rewards, so it's only right that they have a nice prize - otherwise no-one would do it :)

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See, I might agree if this applied to other content. Savage mounts aren't exclusive, and become easier the longer you wait. Basically, they do this not to reward PvPers but to desperately beg people to play PvP.

If you don't need to compete to get the reward, why should I compete? Players always pick the easiest method to obtain something, why shouldn't they...

PvP means Player vs Player, this is not intended to get magically easier over time with the next addon or new levelcap.
That's why PvP rewards keep their value, PvE rewards not.

There are a shitton of promotional/preorder items that are not on mogshop and not purchasable anymore & codes invalid. Do you see me babyraging about them as if some stranger stole my goodies? It's just some huge chair mount, you don't need it for your erp and khloe unsync weeklys, so nt&bb.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

See, I might agree if this applied to other content. Savage mounts aren't exclusive, and become easier the longer you wait. Basically, they do this not to reward PvPers but to desperately beg people to play PvP.

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Please people, stop doing this comparison. Savage mounts can be obtained at any time.

I personally do not enjoy pvp in FFXIV however, in tor I received top 3 AC title twice, and top 100 for other seasons before I quit and sold off my account. I understand why players want exclusive rewards, but I can also understand as to why other players would like another means of getting the rewards. In tor as someone who "earned" the rewards I do not care if someone could get the reward some other way.

I think people care too much about the rewards, and underestimate the desire many have to simply be the best. I thoroughly enjoyed the pvp in tor and I would grind out ranks, even after hitting a safe ranked for the items I pushed forward due to the enjoyment. Do not get me wrong the rewards are nice but if they handed out the items to every player I would not have cared because I still had mine in the end. I know for many this will not make sense, but short version I get rewards are nice, but for me personally enjoyment is why I do something not the reward. From experience unique rewards cause people do not some silly shit, like pay someone for an account that has unique pixels. Truth be told I doubt my account would have sold for as much as it did if the pvp reward items were not unique.

Unique titles should be the exclusive content, but when you toss in items that leads a lot of people to do silly shit like pay for carries, win trade etc . . unless you have the player base to avoid such extremes, adding in exclusive items just gives people a reason to try and milk the system for those rewards.

While I am not sure how often they this happens in FFXIV, in tor our guild made most our gil doing 4's carries for pvp reward items. I will always stand by how the experience should be reward enough. I enjoyed the pvp in tor that is why I did it. If you need a unique carrot to queue that is on you not the devs or the player base. All people are asking for is another option, it does not take away from the experience you personally went through to reach your rank.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Please people, stop doing this comparison. Savage mounts can be obtained at any time.

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And that's exactly the problem.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Yeah so thank you for validating my point, you sucked for 200 games managed to somehow win less than half of that amount but yeah! you're so skilled to be in the top 100 you did an awesome job to win 75 out of 275 matches while the guy that won 140 out of 275 matches isn't in the top 100 because obviously he's less skilled than you, after all he won 65 more time than you... "Logic!"

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How did I validate your point? Maybe the guy who lost more played a job he/she wasn't good at then switched to a job they were more suited to and then started winning. Or they, you know, got better BY PLAYING THE GAME, and then got to a higher rating. Somehow you don't seem to understand such a simple concept.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Yeah there's isn't, but in one of your other post you used the olympics as an example. have you ever seen any real competition that test skill allow you to cancel out one of your losses by doing more matches?
There's indeed a reason why videogames don't do that... because I know it might be a difficult concept to grasp to someone like you who seems to value your performance in one as some kind of life accomplishement, but it's a "game"
They want as much people to play it as long as possible, if you can either be good or sink enough time in it to crawl to the top then it make perfect sense as a buisness decision, but it got nothing to do with promoting skill.

There's a reason e-sport competitions are in a tournament format and not point based buddy.

So you can argue all you want and shut your ears to anyone else believing you're right and everyone else around you is wrong like any self absorbed person, but the truth is you want your reward for the feeling you get when you see someone feel bad because only you get to have something they would have wanted too. Like a kid in a playground with his expensive toy. If it were just to remember or show other that you ranked a title would suffice.

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Many video games do do that. A good example is World of Warcraft where previous seasons gladiator mounts are no longer available. Also previous seasons elite gear is no longer available for purchase either. You are just wrong on every level and it's obvious you don't play any game that has structured pvp competition.

It is actually quite sad to watch people who never pvp get so angry over the fact that they don't have access to something in the game and especially ALLERGIC to the idea that someone is better than them because as many people say in these type of threads, they have full time jobs, classes etc, and they don't have time to pvp while people that do get top 100 do have full time jobs/classes just like everyone else.

At this point, everything you guys say is an excuse, and every single season you guys complain about how you don't have access to an item just gets sadder every single time. It isn't even about the fact it is time exclusive, YOU INSTANTLY whine about it and get upset that you aren't good enough to receive items. Get over it, you aren't as good, plain and simple. Or if you do think you can get it, just play the game and you know, get better by doing so. Practice makes perfect!

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Originally Posted by Aviars

At this point, everything you guys say is an excuse, and every single season you guys complain about how you don't have access to an item just gets sadder every single time. It isn't even about the fact it is time exclusive, YOU INSTANTLY whine about it and get upset that you aren't good enough to receive items. Get over it, you aren't as good, plain and simple. Or if you do think you can get it, just play the game and you know, get better by doing so. Practice makes perfect!

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You're free to tell yourself whatever you want to stroke your ego, but I was playin the 5th seasons, did something like 150 fights before getting bored to death by it and moving on. Won more than 60% of my matches playing only nin so yeah you can keep petting yourself in the back but you're nothing special.

Also my point was not about getting the rewards it was about the actual format promoting time investment over skill. Which is something SE love doing.
I'm all for having the rewards gated behind some kind of pvp participation, but time limited rewards are always BS, even more so when only 100 people over a datacenter with about 10k of active players can get it and once again thanks to the amount of matches they played over the amount of win/loses they got. It's an artificial way to make something rare and you know it, that's why you get so whiny when people discuss having them come back. Because you know if people had more time to get it, no matter how difficult it would be then yours wouldn't be that rare anymore and you wouldn't be such a special snowflake.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

You're free to tell yourself whatever you want to stroke your ego, but I was playin the 5th seasons, did something like 150 fights before getting bored to death by it and moving on. Won more than 60% of my matches playing only nin so yeah you can keep petting yourself in the back but you're nothing special.

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60% relative to what ranking? You don't seem to get percentages mean nothing, they are all relative to the people you are playing. A good example would be having a 50% winrate in gold vs a 50% winrate in diamond. Does that mean the gold player is doing just as good as the diamond player? 100% no. You just don't understand what a percentage means and it's sad.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Also my point was not about getting the rewards it was about the actual format promoting time investment over skill. Which is something SE love doing.
I'm all for having the rewards gated behind some kind of pvp participation, but time limited rewards are always BS, even more so when only 100 people over a datacenter with about 10k of active players can get it and once again thanks to the amount of matches they played over the amount of win/loses they got. It's an artificial way to make something rare and you know it, that's why you get so whiny when people discuss having them come back. Because you know if people had more time to get it, no matter how difficult it would be then yours wouldn't be that rare anymore and you wouldn't be such a special snowflake.

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The only way the format promotes time investment is people playing the game more than others and GETTING BETTER. It is in fact PVP where you are competing against OTHER PEOPLE. People who invest more time in pvp will naturally get better at pvp and eventually get a higher rank. you on the other hand are defeatist and make up excuses on why you weren't able to perform. Just stop, it is sad.

And in the end, it has nothing to do with me wanting to be a special snowflake or w.e. Why should people who had not played a certain season get the rewards associated with that season. Why should they claim the same achievement? There are plenty of other items in this game that are time exclusive that are meant to reward people who played at a certain time, such as the gobbue mount, legacy chocobo and the legacy tatoo. Should YOU be able to claim rewards meant for people for participating in the game at a certain point in time??? I say no.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Should YOU be able to claim rewards meant for people for participating in the game at a certain point in time??? I say no.

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I really would not care either way since I would still have the reward. If someone else gets the reward it does not detract from the experience I gained and or went through to get said reward. It would still hold value to me. As I mentioned before I do not personally like FFXIV, but I have earned top tier titles in other games and I honestly would still pvp in that game because I enjoyed it even if they gave the rewards away to everyone that queued happened to queue up once. Though I will say that unique titles should remain exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I really do not care either way since I would still have the reward. If someone else gets the reward it does not detract from the experience I gained and or went through to get said reward. It would still hold value to me.

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You don't seem to understand that the rewards mentioned were for people who played in 1.0.

Those mounts and character traits are meant to distinguish people who played in 1.0 and not randoms who decide to by it from the mogstation. Just because you don't care doesn't mean other people don't. Stop trying to cheapen achievement by making absolutely everything widely available

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Originally Posted by Aviars

You don't seem to understand that the rewards mentioned were for people who played in 1.0.

Those mounts and character traits are meant to distinguish people who played in 1.0 and not randoms who decide to by it from the mogstation. Just because you don't care doesn't mean other people don't. Stop trying to cheapen achievement by making absolutely everything widely available

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I do understand, my wow account has a couple of feat of strength achievements, and I have a few rare items that are no longer in the game and I would not care if they added said items back into the or made the rewards from feat of strength achievements easier to obtain at a later date. Since it would not detract from the my personal experience required at the time to get said item or mount. It only cheapens the value if you let it.

If more people having the item cheapen the value of said item to you, journey getting said item must not have been that memorable or valuable in the first place.

You keep going on about how I don't understand percentage but keep missing my point, if you had time to play 200 matches loses 110 and win 90 and rank above someone who played 100 and won 70 because it's all he could play then yeah time advantage you. given the same amount of matches the guy with a 70% winrate would most likely have crushed the other one. Thing is he didn't had the same time to invest and didn't get the opportunity to face enough team weaker than his to rack up enough win to steadily manage to store points.

And you're talking about that special gobbue that we were told would be exclusive to the 1.0 as a thanks for playing at that time when they promoted it and once the 2.0 hit got released again as a mount, just without the carpet, as part of the beastmen quest rewards? or the chocobo which is the same one as any other chocobo with black tip feather?

Because yeah I didn't whine about that, I don't really care that other people get to have the same stuff I do, SE can release the tattoo if they want if it gets to make someone's day. I'm not that selfish and that don't take it away from me, nor the fact that I played the V1 of this game.

Also you want me to believe that if they added the PVP season mounts and armors with a different color scheme to a beastmen tribe reward we wouldn't be seeing you whinning about "entitlement" and stuff on the forum?

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Originally Posted by Awha

I do understand, my wow account has a couple of feat of strength achievements, and I have a few rare items that are no longer in the game and I would not care if they added said items back into the or made the rewards from feat of strength achievements easier to obtain at a later date. Since it would not detract from the my personal experience required at the time to get said item or mount. It only cheapens the value if you let it.

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Well why don't we just make ultimate weapons available for gil? The value is only cheapened if people who got the weapons from clearing Ultimate let it right?

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

You keep going on about how I don't understand percentage but keep missing my point, if you had time to play 200 matches loses 110 and win 90 and rank above someone who played 100 and won 70 because it's all he could play then yeah time advantage you. given the same amount of matches the guy with a 70% winrate would most likely have crushed the other one. Thing is he didn't had the same time to invest and got the opportunity to face enough team weaker than his to rack up enough win to steadily manage to store points.

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Because you obviously don't understand, you seem to think you are guaranteed to win and lose a certain amount of games no matter your skill level as if you could stand in one spot and use no abilities and you would be able to win because you were "supposed to." BTW you get the same opportunity to play against a stronger team and lose as you would playing a weaker team and winning, so your logic doesn't add up champ.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

And you're talking about that special gobbue that we were told would be exclusive to the 1.0 as a thanks for playing at that time when they promoted it and once the 2.0 hit got released again as a mount, just without the carpet, as part of the beastmen quest rewards? or the chocobo which is the same one as any other chocobo with black tip feather?

Because yeah I didn't whine about that, I don't really care that other people get to have the same stuff I do, SE can release the tattoo if they want if it gets to make someone's day. I'm not that selfish and that don't take it away from me, nor the fact that I played the V1 of this game.

Also you want me to believe that if they added the PVP season mounts and armors with a different color scheme to a beastmen tribe reward we wouldn't be seeing you whinning about "entitlement" and stuff on the forum?

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The gobbue received from beastmen, as you admit, isn't the same. The chocobo you mentioned as you admit, isn't the same. And the tattoo is something they created for 1.0 users and SE seems to agree because it has never been even hinted at being released. You seem to get triggered at people getting rewarded for effort or achievement.

"If they aren't the same as me then it is UNFAIR"

That is basically you

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Well why don't we just make ultimate weapons available for gil? The value is only cheapened if people who got the weapons from clearing Ultimate let it right?

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Have not gotten to ultimate yet in this game, but even if I cleared it and they sold the weapon for 1 gil for me personally it would not detract from fun I had with the encounter (if it was fun have not done it yet not even 70 yet haha)

Do not get wrong I fully understand why people value such items, I sold my tor account for stupid amount (for me)simply because it had top 3 AC titles for for two seasons and each rank season rewards, with a couple nightmare mode raid titles and items. I do know people value such things simply do not see the point even if I understand why people value them. Still have my WoW account because I still play the game.

I am just different I guess for me the journey is what matters most the item is just a bonus, with or without the item I would have done the task if I found it enjoyable. I hardly ever find myself doing something simply for the item, main reason why I do not have many rep rewards in a lot of games unless they are tied to something needed for endgame.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Because you obviously don't understand, you seem to think you are guaranteed to win and lose a certain amount of games no matter your skill level as if you could stand in one spot and use no abilities and you would be able to win because you were "supposed to." BTW you get the same opportunity to play against a stronger team and lose as you would playing a weaker team and winning, so your logic doesn't add up champ.

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I feel like we're going full circle there, statistically as long as you're doing something you'll get some win, but if you're better in a team of only four people the impact on the amount of the matches you win will be higher. If you're good you should be able to win more than half of your matches, if you're really good this should be rising to about 60%

Yet some people rank in the top 100 with a winrate ratio as high as 41% over an insane amount of matches which mean they lost more than they won, but just played long enough to get point. Those are either terribly unlucky and 60% of their team sucked or they were the element that made them lose and got carried the time they won. But somehow made it into the top 100 over someone who might not have the time or the motivation to play that many matches but would be good enough to win everytime against that previous guy.

But according to your logic the first example I gave is more skilled that the second one because he kept on playing until he managed to eventually get enough wins

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Originally Posted by Aviars

The gobbue received from beastmen, as you admit, isn't the same. The chocobo you mentioned as you admit, isn't the same. And the tattoo is something they created for 1.0 users and SE seems to agree because it has never been even hinted at being released.

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So we reached an understanding? Nice then the top 100 mounts should be in beastmen tribes rewards with a carpet on it and the armors should be there too with different colors at the tip of some part.
I'm sure nobody would complain about that, actually I'm fairly sure that's what people are also asking for, an other option to get something they want too. Even if it's an alternative version.

Get on it SE~

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Originally Posted by Aviars

You seem to get triggered at people getting rewarded for effort or achievement.

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Go ahead, quote me on when I ever said the reward should be handed over without effort or achievement. I said I don't care if people get the same stuff as me, also said SE already put an alternative version of once "exclusive rewards" through easy content and I also said gating a reward behind a time restriction is stupid and is not proof of any effort or achievement, woah you were there at the right time, you must be so special...

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

I feel like we're going full circle there, statistically as long as you're doing something you'll get some win, but if you're better in a team of only four people the impact on the amount of the matches you win will be higher. If you're good you should be able to win more than half of your matches, if you're really good this should be rising to about 60%
Yet some people rank in the top 100 with a winrate ratio as high as 41% over an insane amount of matches which mean they lost more than they won, but just played long enough to get point. Those are either terribly unlucky and 60% of their team sucked or they were the element that made them lose and got carried the time they won. But somehow made it into the top 100 over someone who might not have the time or the motivation to play that many matches but would be good enough to win everytime against that previous guy.

But according to your logic the first example I gave is more skilled that the second one because he kept on playing until he managed to eventually get enough

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you just fail to understand that playing the game makes you better at it. There is nothing really more to say to you since you already think you are the perfect player so obviously you wouldn't understand.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

So we reached an understanding? Nice then the top 100 mounts should be in beastmen tribes rewards with a carpet on it and the armors should be there too with different colors at the tip of some part.
I'm sure nobody would complain about that, actually I'm fairly sure that's what people are also asking for, an other option to get something they want too. Even if it's an alternative version.

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You are a funny dude because in the end that wouldn't even make sense to do such a thing. The turtle beasttibe gives.... a hellhound??? Please just stop. I in no way said what you are implying so don't say that I did.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Go ahead, quote me on when I ever said the reward should be handed over without effort or achievement. I said I don't care if people get the same stuff as me, also said SE already put an alternative version of once "exclusive rewards" through easy content and I also said gating a reward behind a time restriction is stupid and is not proof of any effort or achievement, woah you were there at the right time, you must be so special...

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That is basically what you are saying. Compared to people playing the game since 1.0, competing to be the top 100 or winning in a gear design contest, anything you do to appease casuals would basically be giving it for free.

I find it sad people just want everything for nothing. Time to tell the gear design winners that the community wants their rewards too for a gold saucer reward.

basically the same whining when the garo event happened for pvp and people whined that they couldn't get the dyeable gear from the gold saucer

Entitled casuals in a nutshell

I was going to go your stuff one by one, but it's pointless.

at that point I'm pretty sure you're just a self absorbed kid who just want to stand out, you keep weaving things around.
When we go about how they released again the stuff exclusive from the v1 it's totally fine because it was an alternative version but as I expected when it come to the PVP suddenly even if it's an alternative version it's still the same and shouldn't be done because... reason?

Oh yeah it's dumb because somehow in your head you put it in a way that made no sense with the Kojins. Like they could not introduce a questline that would involve demons or just putting it at some random reward, the point being if it's not the same things as long as it get a slightly different skin you shouldn't mind seeing a different colored hellhound dropping somewhere else.

Anyway I feel bad for once again trying to reason with you, I'm wasting my time as much as if I were to pvp in this game. so go nuts I'm done wasting my time with you

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

I was going to go your stuff one by one, but it's pointless. at that point I'm pretty sure you're just a self absorbed kid who just want to stand out, you keep weaving things around.
When we go about how they released again the stuff exclusive from the v1 it's totally fine because it was an alternative version but as I expected when it come to the PVP suddenly even if it's an alternative version it's still the same and shouldn't be done because... reason?

Oh yeah it's dumb because somehow in your head you put it in a way that made no sense with the Kojins. Like they could not introduce a questline that would involve demons or just putting it at some random reward, the point being if it's not the same things as long as it get a slightly different skin you shouldn't mind seeing a different colored hellhound dropping somewhere else.

Anyway I feel bad for once again trying to reason with you, I'm wasting my time as much as if I were to pvp in this game. so go nuts I'm done wasting my time with you

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Nah, you are the one who continues to not understand how percentages are relative to rank. A kindergardener getting a A+ on their test compared to a college grad getting a B+ does not mean the kindergardener did better. You refuse to accept that people play the game to get better. If anything you are the kind of person that wants everything to fall on their lap because you already think you are the best player and if you don't do something well then it is the problem of the system. Keep blaming everything but yourself for your shortcomings, in the end, you'll never be happy because you'll always see people doing better than you.

Not everything in the game is made for you, and not everything in the world is meant for you either, about time you grow up and realize that.

I always thought this debate could be solved with better use of titles. We have plenty of vintage titles in the game but I have never seen anyone asking for those. Or would titles and in game trophies not be a good enough reward?

Genuinely curious because this debate shows up every time mounts are added as pvp rewards and it isn't going to stop.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

I always thought this debate could be solved with better use of titles. We have plenty of vintage titles in the game but I have never seen anyone asking for those. Or would titles and in game trophies not be a good enough reward?

Genuinely curious because this debate shows up every time mounts are added as pvp rewards and it isn't going to stop.

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You pretty much showed how inconsistent these people are in general. They don't really care about the titles they can't get, but when it's a mount or glam that THEY want then it becomes a problem.

Also notice how no one complains about the trophy being only for one person? It seems most people are not against there being rare rewards, it's more of a problem that SE is releasing something that they want and can't get. Just shows that it is all about them them them and only them

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Originally Posted by Aviars

You pretty much showed how inconsistent these people are in general. They don't really care about the titles they can't get, but when it's a mount or glam that THEY want then it becomes a problem. Also notice how no one complains about the trophy being only for one person? It seems most people are not against there being rare rewards, it's more of a problem that SE is releasing something that they want and can't get. Just shows that it is all about them them them and only them

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To be honest I really do not see many inconsistent people, I just see people that are sort of sick of this debate. I do not care either way since as I said the item is simply a bonus it is not the reason I do something, I have even mentioned in my first post that people titles should stay unique. Even then if someone wanted an old title I would not be up in arms about it, hell even if I personally wanted something that was removed I would not ask for it to be added I will just go on with my day.

This debate will never end and in the end even if they tossed the items on the mog station ( extreme example ) it does inherently cheapen the value of the reward / title since that value is determined by the one that earned it. In WoW and TOR I no straight up no lifed those games to doing pvp and pve content the memories are what I hold dear remember what I will remember as time goes on. Nothing will ever cheapen what I accomplished / earned in those games even if one day they allow players to buy whatever rare item or title they want.

I play the game because I enjoy it everything else is just a bonus. As I mentioned rewards are nice, but rewards are not the end all be all, and when you place so much value on the rewards topics like this tend to piss you off. As I said I do not do know how bad win trading / carries are in FFXIV, I have always wondered if the rewards had a different means of obtaining them and the titles remained unique would people still bother to win trade / pay for carries.

Though I am a beta cuck that gives into the masses to avoid silly debates, if the request does not have a proven negative impact. I do think people over hype the importance of rewards if the mode is fun enough people will take part despite the rewards, though no one is asking for the rewards to be removed just others are asking for an optional means of getting the items. If they give pvp a Unique title does it really matter if the items are easily attainable later on.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Also notice how no one complains about the trophy being only for one person? It seems most people are not against there being rare rewards, it's more of a problem that SE is releasing something that they want and can't get. Just shows that it is all about them them them and only them

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Well to be honest, this was a highly requested mount since SB launched so I get why people are mad. I'm with you though, complaints are inconsistent that why I been trying to gather toughts instead of complaining. Pinpointing the issues within the rewards system and SE's decision on what goes where in it. I wish SE itself was consistent though, if Ultimate's most important reward is the Title why it isn't the same for PvP? Alas the trophies are atrocious, I wish SE at least cared on modeling them so season winners could build a pretty trophy wall. But I guess properly modeling cool stuff do cost resources so that's a more complicated issue.

I'm with you though, people just don't know what to complain about. They just want the shiny without trying to get into PvP first before complaining. Which lead of people talking about the most superficial stuff instead of the actual issues within the rewards.

Well this really shows 2 things imo.

1. PvP really failed. Immensely. It seems the only way SE can attract attention to it is by putting items the community wants in it (gorilla from Rival Wings, Garo items etc etc.). If PvP doesn't get any item rewards for a while, the mode loses all of it's appeal.
2. Players really don't want to work hard for anything and love a good whining. This is the Neo Exdeath not being in normal mode thing all over again.

If SE would listen to it's players, they'd realise PvP support is a waste of their limited ressources. For it being so talked about when the "revamp" was in the works really flopped. Oh well, they made their bed, they'll lay in it.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Please people, stop doing this comparison. Savage mounts can be obtained at any time.

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That's my whole point. Why should PvP mounts be exclusive when Savage mounts aren't?

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

If SE would listen to it's players

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You'd see pretty much everything become obtainable from the mogstation or gold saucer as half the threads asking SE for something are like this. The majority don't want to work hard for anything.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

That's my whole point. Why should PvP mounts be exclusive when Savage mounts aren't?

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Good argument to make savage mounts exclusive, or at the very least force a ilvl sync

And I should also ask why should the 1.0 gobbue and 1.0 chocobo be exclusive? It isn't fair?!

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

See, I might agree if this applied to other content. Savage mounts aren't exclusive, and become easier the longer you wait. Basically, they do this not to reward PvPers but to desperately beg people to play PvP.

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Should the unique trophy reward for the number 1 player at the end of the season be given away to everyone at a later date? It's an exclusive item, so it should be in violation of your rule. Or perhaps rewards take on a different connotation within the context of an actual competition? As a compromise, I wouldn't mind if they gave out reskinned versions of the top 100 rewards at a later date in exchange for a decent sum of wolf collars.

I think that the top 100 see their prize as a trophy of sorts rather than just a typical reward that doesn't involve competition. At least the original colors should stay exclusive to those who actually earned them as a trophy for the competitive season. Otherwise, you may as well give the number 1 trophy away as well. That's ultimately what the top 100 rewards are - trophies. The exclusivity of the item proves season placement. It's just that in a videogame, you get to be a lot more creative with how you design a trophy.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

You'd see pretty much everything become obtainable from the mogstation or gold saucer as half the threads asking SE for something are like this. The majority don't want to work hard for anything.

Good argument to make savage mounts exclusive, or at the very least force a ilvl sync

And I should also ask why should the 1.0 gobbue and 1.0 chocobo be exclusive? It isn't fair?!

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Originally Posted by Levy9

Should the unique trophy reward for the number 1 player at the end of the season be given away to everyone at a later date? It's an exclusive item, so it should be in violation of your rule. Or perhaps rewards take on a different connotation within the context of an actual competition? As a compromise, I wouldn't mind if they gave out reskinned versions of the top 100 rewards at a later date in exchange for a decent sum of wolf collars.

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Both of these are false equivalents. 1.0 Gobbue and Chocobo required you to play an entirely different game; denoting a unique circumstance. As the trophy, it's essentially a title more comparable with Ultimate. Mounts, on the other hand, have been ubiquitous as a collectors item. No other forms of content render them exclusive. They even stopped exclusive minions from SE store purchases after numerous complaints. If I recall correctly, the reason they gave for no Ultimate mounts or minion was it not being fair to more casual players. Why isn't that extended to PvP then? I have no doubt plenty of active PvPers see the mount as a trophy of sorts. I'm arguing more against the lack of consistency because how are Savage mounts any different? Why can't raiders get a Bahamut mount for completing Ultimate? It'd serve the exact same function.

So in that sense, Aviars. Yes, the mounts from Savage should be gated behind ilvl if they're going to continue this system for Feast. Alas, they won't because like I said, this has absolutely nothing to do with rewarding PvPer and simply SE looking for ways to get people into PvP. It's no coincidence this is now the second requested mount from PvE (Hellhound being the first) that got locked behind a Feast tournament.

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Originally Posted by Levy9

The exclusivity of the item proves season placement. It's just that in a videogame, you get to be a lot more creative with how you design a trophy.

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Why not create a Top 100 Trophy or a equivalent title ala Ultimate? Once again, it's a lack of consistency and shows they just want to bribe more people into Feast.

Keep in mind PvP is distinct from savage content aka pve.
I honserly dont mind the mount is given out to to top 100.
I mean gg for pvp enthusiast.^^

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Both of these are false equivalents.

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Funny, why are you equating PVE with PVP then? They are two separate and entirely different things after all with their own set of currency, progression and rewards!

What me and Bourne been questioning though is just how poorly the rewards are handled.

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Originally Posted by Aviars

Funny, why are you equating PVE with PVP then? They are two separate and entirely different things after all with their own set of currency, progression and rewards!

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Because only one offers wholly exclusive mounts whereas the other allows people to farm them a year later with little effort. PvP is still apart of FFXIV. I am not equating it to PvE in terms of gameplay but on their respective reward structure. In fact, let's look at Lord of Verminion. Despite being a PvP inspired attraction the minion rewards aren't exclusive. Two years later and I can still go and obtain them, though good luck finding enough people to play it. These exclusive mounts aim to hopefully bribe people to play Feast. If they truly aimed to offer rewards based on your skill, they would have Top 100 Trophies, titles and/or an in-game Leadership board that highlights your name and the season you reached top 100 in.

Put simply, if even Ultimate doesn't get a mount or minion. Why should Feast?