Personally, I'd rather you scrap the Armoury System then Lock 1 Job to 1 Weapon.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Kilta, the thing about that is it isn't SE that intentionally makes up certain job combinations that are requirements, its the playerbase and elitism that set those boundaries. I doubt that SE will be able to balance each and every class perfectly enough to where this doesn't happen. Players will always find the best way to do things, how to do them, and when to do them. Thats how it is in any MMORPG.

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WoW's PvE balance would like to have a word with you. How is it that Blizz can put emphasis on party/raid comp balance while allowing players to pick their favorite spec and be useful to their raid while SE somehow couldn't/can't?

That's my concern with the system too, but honestly I think it's likely we'll get more roles per class in the future, because every class has the potential for more than one role. They won't adjust conjurer or thaumaturge to be more 'whm-focussed' because they want to keep the classes versatile so they can perform in low-man situations effectively.

Classes are jelly, jobs are the mould put on said jelly.

I want jelly.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

WoW's PvE balance would like to have a word with you. How is it that Blizz can put emphasis on party/raid comp balance while allowing players to pick their favorite spec and be useful to their raid while SE somehow couldn't/can't?

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Becuase Wow is set up completely differently from FFXIV? Talent trees are so homogenous in that game and there's practically no customisation to speak of. I don't see how this comparison makes sense, being as in WoW you just pick from a bunc h of presets anyway. Jobs in FFXIV will basically work out like talent trees in wow, except the base job-less class is still useful.

In fact, using wow as an example using wow. You could say any FFXIV class is kinda ike druid, able to fill different roles but none particularly well pre-talents. The talents are then applied over the top of that base, limiting certain areas and vastly improving others. Whilst it's not a perfect comparison, if we get numerous jobs per class in the future, that would be fairly similar.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

That's my concern with the system too, but honestly I think it's likely we'll get more roles per class in the future, because every class has the potential for more than one role. They won't adjust conjurer or thaumaturge to be more 'whm-focussed' because they want to keep the classes versatile so they can perform in low-man situations effectively.

Classes are jelly, jobs are the mould put on said jelly.

I want jelly.

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mmmmm with it being morning i could really go for some jelly and toast.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Becuase Wow is set up completely differently from FFXIV? Talent trees are so homogenous in that game and there's practically no customisation to speak of. I don't see how this comparison makes sense, being as in WoW you just pick from a bunch of presets anyway. Jobs in FFXIV will basically work out like talent trees in wow, except the base job-less class is still useful.

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The underlying point in my saying that is that WoW's devs workes their asses off to take PvE balance to a point where people were no longer pigeonholed into specs. It's the difference between being told "lol heal or gtfo" as a Paladin during The Burning Crusade and being able to finally spec Retribution, grab a two-handed hammer and bash skulls in with holy might like I wanted to do since I rolled the class during vanilla.

That was my big gripe with Red Mage, because Blizz did with Paladin what I wanted SE to do with Red Mage since before Chains of Promathia.

Either way, the pigeonholing in WoW doesn't exist for the most part. You have the ocassional spec that does better DPS but you're not a true detriment to your raid for not playing that spec if you don't want to. On the other hand, the pigeonholing was rampant in FFXI. That's what people like Kilta and Caird are trying to avoid, and with good reason.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The underlying point in my saying that is that WoW's devs workes their asses off to take PvE balance to a point where people were no longer pigeonholed into specs. It's the difference between being told "lol heal or gtfo" as a Paladin during The Burning Crusade and being able to finally spec Retribution, grab a two-handed hammer and bash skulls in with holy might like I wanted to do since I rolled the class during vanilla.

That was my big gripe with Red Mage, because Blizz did with Paladin what I wanted SE to do with Red Mage since before Chains of Promathia.

Either way, the pigeonholing in WoW doesn't exist for the most part. You have the ocassional spec that does better DPS but you're not a true detriment to your raid for not playing that spec if you don't want to. On the other hand, the pigeonholing was rampant in FFXI. That's what people like Kilta and Caird are trying to avoid, and with good reason.

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But that's because there's no class uniqueness anymore. It's a fairly hefty complaint of the playerbase that everyone feels the same. A fire mage and destruction warlock are very similar, with slightly different procs affecting rotation.
The reason FFXI and XIV can get away with pidgeonholing a bit more is because your character isnt limited by class, you're working towards one goal on one character. Being able to adjust to deal with the situation is part of the FF game's charm, and thats why the job system works so well in XI.

Having a singular class to play is all well and good, but it's never really been the way to be successful in FF MMOs, it seems.

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Originally Posted by Physic

they actually did say it will lower your options, and put you into a more specific role.

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Ok, so you will be unable to be a vanilla Job in the sense that you will not be able to equip pretty much every ability that you can on every class. But, the trade-off is "compensation with access to exclusive actions". I would not see this personally as lowering my options within a party until I know what these exclusive actions are. Also, do we know if by opening up a job specialization then we will be locked out on the corresponding class to equipping actions as we do currently?

Having a specific role in party does not instantly lower your options; it all depends on what we get on those job specializations. I can't say right now whether it will be for better or worse- but hell I'd rather stay optimistic :)

lol in other words let's agree to disagree ^^ Most of this is speculation anyway.

Oh its Cairdeas with another of his endless topics on weapons ...

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Originally Posted by Sephr

But that's because there's no class uniqueness anymore. It's a fairly hefty complaint of the playerbase that everyone feels the same. A fire mage and destruction warlock are very similar, with slightly different procs affecting rotation.

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Correction, the complaints come mostly from people who've lost their "unique" buffs that no longer guaranteed them a raid spot. It'd be as if WHM, BLM and SMN suddenly got refresh. All the bandwagon Red Mages (that ruined things for the melee enthusiasts like myself) would cry their eyes out because their "unique" spell was given out.

As far as class uniqueness in the context of WoW, I had an Arms Warrior, A Ret Paladin and a Blood Death Knight during Wrath of the Lich King. All three could use two-handers and some even had similar buffs, but still felt different because despite it all, class flavor was preserved, even in the face of the so abhorred homogenization.

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The reason FFXI and XIV can get away with pidgeonholing a bit more is because your character isnt limited by class, you're working towards one goal on one character. Being able to adjust to deal with the situation is part of the FF game's charm, and thats why the job system works so well in XI.

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While entirely urinating on the people who identify their characters with one job/class more than any other. I am also one such person, as I look at my Taru in XI and think "Duelle the Red Mage", not "Duelle, the taru that can change to an underleveled PLD, a DRK that draws too much aggro when hitting things and has RDM leveled to 90". Call it lolRP if you want, but I doubt I'm alone in this.

Either way, pigeonholing is a bad thing. It should not be spoken of as if it is an inevitable thing, as that is clearly not the case.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Either way, pigeonholing is a bad thing. It should not be spoken of as if it is an inevitable thing, as that is clearly not the case.

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I'd rather every class brought their own individual abilities, but you're right; they should be able to balance them so no class is better.

That said, we havent had much class balancing yet so I'm not sure why it's the topic anyway? The point made was that it's pretty impossible to balance classes EXACTLY, and whilst in WoW it's true they've done quite a good job finally with cataclysm, there are still setups that can yield greater results with less input. But that IS inevitable, and as long as it's not too big a gap, it's not really a problem.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Level Synch was such a god-send for players like me who liked to play quirky builds. My friends could care less what I wore or what we did in parties when we were all together we were just having a blast murdering stuff and getting some exp on the side.

We had Beastmaster parties, lowman manaburns, Thief tanks. Sometimes it's fun to do something thats not cookie cutter. I do hope that eventually they implement some sort of level synch system into this game as well. The system was a breath of fresh air the game totally needed.

Of course it had it's downsides "SMN burns lol" but that was a mechanics issue more than a issue with lvl synch.

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I think that mess up the game for me everyone just level up in the best low level camps like bird camp at level 37. Also it made everyone gimp like hell in endgame no one care about level up there skills. But in ffxiv it would make more sense seeing how we don't have to level up anything like healing,dark and so on.

I think the worst thing SE did with this game, Especially for the english and europeaon players was call Weapons Classes and give them flourishy names. They should have never called them classes or given them special names and just called them by the weapon name. Explained that there are no classes. Weapons teach you special skills as you train with them, kept them called ranks, then created a title system that automatically called you what job you reflected.

If you equip a sword, a bunch of cure spells, and defensive skills with a maybe a shield, the game detects that you've done so and calls you a Paladin. Etc.

But on the other hand swapping out the sword for a spear doesn't remove the fact that you're a defensive white magic spell caster. So you're still a Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I think the worst thing SE did with this game, Especially for the english and europeaon players was call Weapons Classes and give them flourishy names. They should have never called them classes or given them special names and just called them by the weapon name. Explained that there are no classes. Weapons teach you special skills as you train with them, kept them called ranks, then created a title system that automatically called you what job you reflected.

If you equip a sword, a bunch of cure spells, and defensive skills with a maybe a shield, the game detects that you've done so and calls you a Paladin. Etc.

But on the other hand swapping out the sword for a spear doesn't remove the fact that you're a defensive white magic spell caster. So you're still a Paladin.

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Now given THAT context, I can agree that it would've been nice to have it that way. Sort of like FFXIII paradigms that assign you a name given what you have equipped spells and equipment -wise.

However, given what they're trying to achieve in the current context, the job system they have in place with the addition of hopefully more than one job per class (i'll be pretty gutted if they dont add more down the line), it just makes more sense. They want a system that's reminiscent of previous FF's, so that's what we're getting.

Edit: Thinking about it, it would've been nice to have something like IX's system where you learn abilities from individual weapon and armour use. So you could equip a certain shield and learn defender after using it for a while, equip another higher level one a bit later and maybe learn phalanx. You could equip an axe and eventually learn beast killer.

The only problem with this system would be that everyone would end up using the same stuff, similar to what we have now ingame. It would be hard to balance encounters unless these 'titles' you earned came with specific buffs. Like equipping the stuff to turn you into a paladinw ould also grant a defence boost, enmity boost, cure potency etc.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

That said, we havent had much class balancing yet so I'm not sure why it's the topic anyway? The point made was that it's pretty impossible to balance classes EXACTLY, and whilst in WoW it's true they've done quite a good job finally with cataclysm, there are still setups that can yield greater results with less input. But that IS inevitable, and as long as it's not too big a gap, it's not really a problem.

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Agreed. I think that what has some of us worried is the knowledge that group comps in XI varied from effective to massively gimped. The job system there should never have been an excuse for that sort of thing to be, and the same applies to XIV. That way you play the jobs you like rather than jobs you have to play to be effective.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Now given THAT context, I can agree that it would've been nice to have it that way. Sort of like FFXIII paradigms that assign you a name given what you have equipped spells and equipment -wise.

However, given what they're trying to achieve in the current context, the job system they have in place with the addition of hopefully more than one job per class (i'll be pretty gutted if they dont add more down the line), it just makes more sense. They want a system that's reminiscent of previous FF's, so that's what we're getting.

Edit: Thinking about it, it would've been nice to have something like IX's system where you learn abilities from individual weapon and armour use. So you could equip a certain shield and learn defender after using it for a while, equip another higher level one a bit later and maybe learn phalanx. You could equip an axe and eventually learn beast killer.

The only problem with this system would be that everyone would end up using the same stuff, similar to what we have now ingame. It would be hard to balance encounters unless these 'titles' you earned came with specific buffs. Like equipping the stuff to turn you into a paladinw ould also grant a defence boost, enmity boost, cure potency etc.

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Obviously it would.

Without the Job Title in the system I described you wouldn't get any passive Traits. Unlocking the title by equipping the skills necessary for it would grant you special Traits. The longer you play with that title active the more Attuned to it you get and you can get merit points to buff up or add new job traits. But in the end your playing the character how you want, Your equipment doesn't matter, your skills do.

But with that system stat assignment would have to be done by the skills you have equipped. Equip defender and get +10 Vit + 5% Def. Equip Red Lotus Blade get +5 Str, + 5 Fire Attunement, + 5 Weapon Skill Accuracy.

Etc.

I wish I could find someone to bankroll a personal development team for me. I have so many freaking ideas in my head that would all culminate in making an awesome MMO. :/

Haha, I'm sure all devs walk into a project with great ideas, what's practical is, unfortnately, a different beast entirely.

Locking jobs to classes on a 1-to-1 basis would completely undermine what SE was trying to achieve with the Armory System in the first place, which is the ability to mix and match stats, abilities, etc. Jobs in and of themselves don't undermine this idea, as while you may be locked into specific ability sets, you're still mixing and matching roles with weapon classes.

Unfortunately, I can probably make a mental picture of what may be going on at the dev table:

"Well, we've listened to the feedback provided by the polls and we're ready to rename class-I mean create a job system!"

"Wait sir! It looks like the playerbase isn't entirely keen on JUST a simple class renam-I mean job system!"

"What!? But we're giving them what they wanted!"

"Well sir, they're saying that a job system is cool, but they don't want to be locked into just one job per class. They want to be able to switch jobs on the fly just like classes."

"Well crap! We didn't have any immediate plans for anything like that! Well we can't just tell them that we weren't actually thinking of implementing that! Tell the community reps to come up with something!"

Man I hope I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Locking jobs to classes on a 1-to-1 basis would completely undermine what SE was trying to achieve with the Armory System in the first place, which is the ability to mix and match stats, abilities, etc. Jobs in and of themselves don't undermine this idea, as while you may be locked into specific ability sets, you're still mixing and matching roles with weapon classes.

Unfortunately, I can probably make a mental picture of what may be going on at the dev table:

"Well, we've listened to the feedback provided by the polls and we're ready to rename class-I mean create a job system!"

"Wait sir! It looks like the playerbase isn't entirely keen on JUST a simple class renam-I mean job system!"

"What!? But we're giving them what they wanted!"

"Well sir, they're saying that a job system is cool, but they don't want to be locked into just one job per class. They want to be able to switch jobs on the fly just like classes."

"Well crap! We didn't have any immediate plans for anything like that! Well we can't just tell them that we weren't actually thinking of implementing that! Tell the community reps to come up with something!"

Man I hope I'm wrong.

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Maybe if we're loud enough they'll at least unlock the acceptable jobs for cross class.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Maybe if we're loud enough they'll at least unlock the acceptable jobs for cross class.

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It's not happening, let it go. Some of us don't even want that system, as was clearly shown in your last thread about it.

The system they're using could be great if they allow for more than 1 job per class. They've already said that some stuff associated with the job system hasn't been announced yet.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

It's not happening, let it go. Some of us don't even want that system, as was clearly shown in your last thread about it.

The system they're using could be great if they allow for more than 1 job per class. They've already said that some stuff associated with the job system hasn't been announced yet.

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This system is the Ragnarok Job System. Its boring and lame and NOT Final Fantasy. :/

I have been taking a break from the game and these dreaded forums since being notified of no patch for a month. I started reading some new Dev posts while enjoying some and being bored quickly on others(Q&A posts). When I read some player posts talking about this 1:1 ratio I just knew it had to be some speculation on their part. However, after finding a Dev post talking about...

1 class : 1 job

Isn't that a step behind FFXI system? My advanced job wasn't predetermined for me based off of my starter.
I'm hoping this is just the first few stepping stones for easier and efficient balancing instead of just throwing a truckload out there.

I used to think the chunk of potential the Armory System wielded would be brought out but now i'm unsure. I will still reserve judgement for now(since detail are still scarce) but SE is finally making me worry.


To Devs: I accepted auto-attack but please don't crush the main system that had me interested in XIV. I'm not saying leave it as is but there have been great ideas on how to improve it without locking jobs to 1 class only(if that's what the 1:1 meant). I would much rather have had a WoW skill tree that let me spec into my job instead of getting predetermined singular outcomes.

Here's hoping that SE ideas once in light will look much better than the hideous figures we see in the dark.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I have been taking a break from the game and these dreaded forums since being notified of no patch for a month. I started reading some new Dev posts while enjoying some and being bored quickly on others(Q&A posts). When I read some player posts talking about this 1:1 ratio I just knew it had to be some speculation on their part. However, after finding a Dev post talking about...

1 class : 1 job

Isn't that a step behind FFXI system? My advanced job wasn't predetermined for me based off of my starter.
I'm hoping this is just the first few stepping stones for easier and efficient balancing instead of just throwing a truckload out there.

I used to think the chunk of potential the Armory System wielded would be brought out but now i'm unsure. I will still reserve judgement for now(since detail are still scarce) but SE is finally making me worry.


To Devs: I accepted auto-attack but please don't crush the main system that had me interested in XIV. I'm not saying leave it as is but there have been great ideas on how to improve it without locking jobs to 1 class only(if that's what the 1:1 meant). I would much rather have had a WoW skill tree that let me spec into my job instead of getting predetermined singular outcomes.

Here's hoping that SE ideas once in light will look much better than the hideous figures we see in the dark.

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I really hope so. I have faith in SE but the stuff they've said so far scares me.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

Isn't that a step behind FFXI system?

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Essentially, yes.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I'm hoping this is just the first few stepping stones for easier and efficient balancing instead of just throwing a truckload out there.

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This is also what I'm hoping.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I used to think the chunk of potential the Armory System wielded would be brought out but now i'm unsure. I will still reserve judgement for now(since detail are still scarce) but SE is finally making me worry.

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Ditto.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

Here's hoping that SE ideas once in light will look much better than the hideous figures we see in the dark.

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On this note, I really think it's an issue of proper information dissemination. Not to call anyone on the SE-side of things, as SE seems to want to be much more communicative than before, but you guys really need to be careful about what kind of information you let out, otherwise Bayohne and the other poor community reps have to go on clean-up duty.

Example: Mention that auto-attack is happening, but offer next to no details on how it'll change things up or how it works, which leads to 10 speculation threads and headaches for all parties involved. Now you offer incomplete details on the job system(that may or may not be finalized), and we get plenty of rage threads and confusion(of which I'm a part of admittedly). Telling people to pay strict attention to only what's written down will only go so far.

I'd personally prefer that information was withheld longer if it meant that meaningful details were given along with them instead of catchphrases and motos. Sure the wait might sting a bit(only because I'm excited to play a good game!), but I'd feel more in the loop and thus grateful.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

Instead of going about this in the way you are

why not keep making the push for eventualy multiple jobs per class?

cuz lets face it, thats it the logical thing to do instead of whining and moaning that the initial launch of the job system isnt how you want it to be

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I agree on this. Why not give SE suggestions about how to implement the new job system. Instead you guys are flaming eachother which is absurd. I dont know how SE is supposed to take anyone seriously when they are acting as such. I think this is a very legitmate post, and anything added should be to debate, or further support this post, not flame it too the ground. We have enough of that in these forums already....

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Originally Posted by Dragonlord

I agree on this. Why not give SE suggestions about how to implement the new job system. Instead you guys are flaming eachother which is absurd. I dont know how SE is supposed to take anyone seriously when they are acting as such. I think this is a very legitmate post, and anything added should be to debate, or further support this post, not flame it too the ground. We have enough of that in these forums already....

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I've been giving them suggestions since before these forums were open. They've announced their plans through dev posts. I don't agree with their plans as they describe them because they are not Final Fantasy. So I'm voicing my concerns. That is what these forums were for.

I'm all for multiple jobs per class (I think 1:1 is pretty bad if it's the permenant design, it really is a choice-killer), just not the SAME job on multiple classes. It's never going to reach the goal of bringing back the typical FF classics. We can all reference specific FF games with 'anomalies' to the job system forever, but when someone thinks of a paladin, it's all about the sword and shield, classically speaking.

That's not to say that a Pugilist shouldn't be able to get a tanking specialisation (i'd love a pugilist tank job), but I think it kills some of the potential abilities they can use when all tanks use the same basic skills and traits. Furthermore, seeing a monk go round in JSE designed for paladins would suck and go against that 'classical' feel. Alternatively, designing armour for all the jobs to fit each class wouldn't really be practical either. I'd rather each job had its own character which was reflected in its quests, ala FFXI. It's hard to get that character across when instead of being a valorous knight, a paladin is based on a bloodthirsty marauder or whatever.

I hope in the future when we have jobs, you can see someone in their classic armour and recognise what they are straight away. I can remember joining up to FFXI back when people wore AF a lot (early US release), really made me want to aspire to level those jobs to get it. I can't help but feel that'd be lost if jobs were more convoluted vague sets of skills that can be passed around everything.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I've been giving them suggestions since before these forums were open. They've announced their plans through dev posts. I don't agree with their plans as they describe them because they are not Final Fantasy. So I'm voicing my concerns. That is what these forums were for.

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I'd say jobs using specific weapons and that IS final fantasy, what do you believe defines it, out of interest?

Also, where'd your angry mandy go? D:

I've hated the armory system since day one. It was great on paper, but the reality is that a weapon doesn't define a fighting style/job/class/character or anything. I'd go into my logic, but i made that post the first day these forums opened and i could care less to repeat myself.

I agree with this thread, but its all stills speculation. SE hasn't said how the system is going to work. And that is the main issue. For me, character development is a huge part of a MMO. And not much at all has even been mentioned. If they know what they are going to do they should tell us, if they have ideas they should post them so we can at least have an idea.

We don't know what is being changed until the patch hits, if anything we get vague hints but nothing solid. It could be worthless and they could be wasting their time *cough* market wards *cough* or it could be a great idea. Either way they are spending a lot of time making changes to a live game. They should be a hell of a lot more upfront about everything. Realistically if they keep anything that ties a job/class/anything to an item of any sort... i'm done.

Then again i'd already say more than 75% of the original player base dumb enough to pay for a beta client (me included) is pretty done with this game already.

Hm, me and Cairdeas actually have something in common here.

Always thought from the beginning how lame it was that a single class couldn't use multiple weapons. If jobs are indeed like that as well it'll just add a notch under the "shitty ideas" belt this game proudly wears.

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I'd say jobs using specific weapons and that IS final fantasy, what do you believe defines it, out of interest?

Also, where'd your angry mandy go? D:

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I dunno lol.

The Final Fantasy job system to me is about not being tied to a specific thing and having the ability to mix and match once you have something mastered.

You spent a long time training as a Thief and now you can play as Viking after unlocking it through the story? Well now your a Viking, your using great axes and big beefy weapons, but your still able to use those thief skills should you chose to help subvert the foe your fighting.

Final Fantasy, Especially Final Fantasy XIV have always been about Horizontal Leveling. Sure you can level vertically but thats not the fun part. The fun Part is leveling Horizontally. Which all of the previous Final Fantasy's Besides FF1, let you do.

Leveling Horizontally fleshes out your character, Leveling Vertically just make them stronger over all.


This version of the "Job" System is completely vertical leveling, It doesn't really flesh out a character, it pidgeon holes them into one task ignoreing other tasks even if that class previously could perform said tasks.

IE.
Conjurer can both heal and deal damage. If Black Mage ends up being the job it gets, you can no longer heal so there for your leveling vertically and losing skills depth for skill specialization. Black Mage would end up being purely Elemental Magic Damage Dealing and maybe some debuffing. As it should be, on its own, but unlike past FF's you can't enhance it by adding skills you already know to it.


Also for everyone saying we do not know how the Job System will work go read the dev trackers.

We don't really know how it's going to play out as of yet, though I do find it weird jobs won't be able to use other skills AND they're weakening spells (or limiting them) based on which class you're using too.

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out. I don't really have a problem with only using one weapon type because I never get attached to any particular class really, if I prefer another weapon I'll just use it and take a class change with it, but I can see how others might prefer that way.

That said, I'd rather they tried to make the system as clean and simple as possible, and if that means only 1 weapon type (at least in the short term, though some classes already have 2 weapon types so it doesn't have to stay that way, they can just lable something as a xxx job/class arm, it doesnt really cause a problem).

Would be nice to know more about these stupid systems :(

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I wonder why they don't just make it so you don't have to pay to allot skills native to your class/job, then have a few points available to select other skills. That way you couldn't radically deviate from the class design, but you could add your own mark to it, especially if alloted spells came with stat bonuses and that.

Just seems like it would've made more sense to do it that way.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Also for everyone saying we do not know how the Job System will work go read the dev trackers.

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We know bits and pieces. of course it's all worry-inducing, but keep in mind that the devs have a habit of saying that everything is in a state of flux. I'm personally holding out hope that all this isn't set in stone, and is at most temporary.

We'll just have to wait until the cat is finally out of the bag. Here's to hoping they don't wait until the day right before the patch containing this stuff, and that they give us a deluge of actual information on what they're doing(not planning) as opposed to usual placeholders.

The fact the reps stated archer would have a "close range" attack that was not performed with bow and arrows give me hope that we'll be seeing more than 1 weapon per class. To many people this brings to mind FFXI's ranger style. (Dagger/shortsword + Bow)

Though I could be wrong and archer ends up just smacking the mob with their bow... You never know with SE >.>

I still think that the info is poorly translated, and that is the main source of most of our problems, people take what they read to literally. Even if it is one job/class then if you want to be more balanced and fill more then one roll, then dont equip a job. Jobs are meant to fit specific roles, if you dont want to fill that roll, then dont equip it.

CON/WHM with Staff: your a healer, and bufer
CON/THM with Wand/shield: your a RedMage pretty much

both of these combos will have their uses and as a CON you can swap between then easy

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

We know bits and pieces. of course it's all worry-inducing, but keep in mind that the devs have a habit of saying that everything is in a state of flux. I'm personally holding out hope that all this isn't set in stone, and is at most temporary.

We'll just have to wait until the cat is finally out of the bag. Here's to hoping they don't wait until the day right before the patch containing this stuff, and that they give us a deluge of actual information on what they're doing(not planning) as opposed to usual placeholders.

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we get patch 1.18 to beta test it, then SE hopefully looks at our responses. 1.19 will be a lot of fixing added to 1.18.
We are bet testing this game. Thats why they throw us some pieces in 1.18 and see how we react... i was hoping for faster and more profound fixes and updates as well but now im beta besting :D again hehe and hope that this time feedback actually gets to the devs.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Also for everyone saying we do not know how the Job System will work go read the dev trackers.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Please also keep in mind that there are still many unannounced details regarding the job system and I was only speaking to a specific question that was being asked/was a point of confusion. I suggest waiting for further announcements for more intricate details. :)

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We definitely don't know the whole story yet.

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Originally Posted by Anty

we get patch 1.18 to beta test it, then SE hopefully looks at our responses. 1.19 will be a lot of fixing added to 1.18.
We are bet testing this game. Thats why they throw us some pieces in 1.18 and see how we react... i was hoping for faster and more profound fixes and updates as well but now im beta besting :D again hehe and hope that this time feedback actually gets to the devs.

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Don't go expecting jobs in 1.18, you're going to be disappointed. We might not be seeing them till after the summer, according to Yoshida's letter 10.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

We don't really know how it's going to play out as of yet, though I do find it weird jobs won't be able to use other skills AND they're weakening spells (or limiting them) based on which class you're using too.

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out. I don't really have a problem with only using one weapon type because I never get attached to any particular class really, if I prefer another weapon I'll just use it and take a class change with it, but I can see how others might prefer that way.

That said, I'd rather they tried to make the system as clean and simple as possible, and if that means only 1 weapon type (at least in the short term, though some classes already have 2 weapon types so it doesn't have to stay that way, they can just lable something as a xxx job/class arm, it doesnt really cause a problem).

Would be nice to know more about these stupid systems :(

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I wonder why they don't just make it so you don't have to pay to allot skills native to your class/job, then have a few points available to select other skills. That way you couldn't radically deviate from the class design, but you could add your own mark to it, especially if alloted spells came with stat bonuses and that.

Just seems like it would've made more sense to do it that way.

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I'm not even talking about the classes themselves having more weapons. I understand why the classes are locked to only having one weapon. Weapons are the Classes. Though Calling the classes was a dumb move though in my opinion, so was giving them a "Class Name" When in reality they are just tools that teach you skills and not really classes. This alone is why people were demanding more class identity, because they thought they were generic classes like from WoW or Aion.


But only in a few, and I mean FEW and very small groups is a Job ever locked specifically and only to one special weapon.

I can see why that makes sense, but they've done it in the wrong order now. It would make sense if you were a paladin as a base, and then you picked up a sword and learned sword skills or a mace and learnt mace skills. However, we're in a situation where it's the reverse, where a paladin is a derivative of a sword user. If from the start they hadn't labelled them and instead of gladiator your stats simple said 'equipped weapon: sword', I bet the mentality would be so different.

Weird.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

I can see why that makes sense, but they've done it in the wrong order now. It would make sense if you were a paladin as a base, and then you picked up a sword and learned sword skills or a mace and learnt mace skills. However, we're in a situation where it's the reverse, where a paladin is a derivative of a sword user. If from the start they hadn't labelled them and instead of gladiator your stats simple said 'equipped weapon: sword', I bet the mentality would be so different.

Weird.

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In Japan the class names are literally "Sword User" "Fist User" "Bow User" "Lance User" etc.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

In Japan the class names are literally "Sword User" "Fist User" "Bow User" "Lance User" etc.

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Yeah, it's a shame that didn't transfer over to us.

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Concerning the name of jobs, the timing of the introduction of Chocobo as well as Ishgar I will try to extract information from the developers. For adding new classes and new jobs, this is provided in the future. At first the fighting classes will each have a job.

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Just saw that on the dev tracker (translated from french via google, SORRY OKAY!), not reading too much into it but it does say AT FIRST fighting classes will each have a job, which does imply they'll get more in the future.

Not reading too much into it. nope.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Yeah, it's a shame that didn't transfer over to us.



Just saw that on the dev tracker (translated from french via google, SORRY OKAY!), not reading too much into it but it does say AT FIRST fighting classes will each have a job, which does imply they'll get more in the future.

Not reading too much into it. nope.

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Does that include Mages? "Fighting" is such a general term XD.

I'm kinda surprised I've gotten 25 likes off a lolfail thread.