Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

When Yoshi P says that if you want harder content, go play Ultimate, I agree with him.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...77/000/ebf.gif

Vile bait. Truly horrendous.

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Originally Posted by Kazelus

It wasn't a mechanics difficulty, it was more a number difficulty, you had to actually DPS to beat them that what we are asking for, right now, we have people that don't understand that they need to AOE on packs, if they had struggled on Sastasha and Copperbell because they were swarmed by sahuagin and spriggans perhaps they would understand what the points of AoEing. Healer who would have seen what a tank taking damage means wouldn't be so pressed to spam cure a tank that is not taking damage at all.

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Granted that this is subjective, but I think mechanics difficulty is much harder to overcome than DPS difficulty. I don't know how it was on release, but right now, you don't even have that many buttons at Satasha level. You have maybe a 2-3 button DPS combo, and a one-button AoE spam, if you're lucky enough to even have AoE at level 18. What exactly was hard about that? "Switch to your AoE button when three or more adds appear," is much easier to understand and implement than, "When the boss flies up into the air, look at the blinking lights on the side and dodge repeatedly in the order corresponding to the number of dots in each column while keeping an eye out for the circles of pain that will be spread all over the floor."

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Vile bait. Truly horrendous.

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I find it really strange that so many players on this forum are so freaked out by that sentiment. I honestly believe that the vast majority of the game's players would agree with Yoshi-P as well. Most of us are already facing plenty of challenges in our day to day life. We don't want our relaxing pasttime at the end of the day to present us with even more challenges than we've already tackled. I think that it's great that this game provides challenges for those who want them, but I think it's also great that this game provides chill content for the majority of us who don't.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I find it really strange that so many players on this forum are so freaked out by that sentiment. I honestly believe that the vast majority of the game's players would agree with Yoshi-P as well. Most of us are already facing plenty of challenges in our day to day life. We don't want our relaxing pasttime at the end of the day to present us with even more challenges than we've already tackled. I think that it's great that this game provides challenges for those who want them, but I think it's also great that this game provides chill content for the majority of us who don't.

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My brother in Hydaelyn all I want is a couple buttons to break up the tedium of spamming a single dps spell on healers.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I find it really strange that so many players on this forum are so freaked out by that sentiment. I honestly believe that the vast majority of the game's players would agree with Yoshi-P as well. Most of us are already facing plenty of challenges in our day to day life. We don't want our relaxing pasttime at the end of the day to present us with even more challenges than we've already tackled. I think that it's great that this game provides challenges for those who want them, but I think it's also great that this game provides chill content for the majority of us who don't.

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People will post takes like these and think they deserve to be taken seriously in response.

If you’re so desperate to ~unwind~ that pressing more than one button every 10 secs (reminder: most content in this game is braindead easy and you don’t even have to do THAT right to succeed in any of it) would absolutely destroy your relaxation then go play cookie clicker and leave our mmo alone.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...77/000/ebf.gif

Vile bait. Truly horrendous.

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How is it bait? If someone wants harder content, it exists. It is there. It is literally, there. To do. Lots of it. Go do it.

I think there are a lot of people who come on these forums wanting this game to be something that it never, ever will be.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

My brother in Hydaelyn all I want is a couple buttons to break up the tedium of spamming a single dps spell on healers.

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Which healer only has one DPS ability?

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

How is it bait? If someone wants harder content, it exists. It is there. It is literally, there. To do. Lots of it. Go do it.

I think there are a lot of people who come on these forums wanting this game to be something that it never, ever will be.

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If you're not trolling, then you're missing the point of the thread.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

If you're not trolling, then you're missing the point of the thread.

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They *are the point of the thread

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Originally Posted by anhaato

They *are the point of the thread

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TRUE.

10 char

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

If you're not trolling, then you're missing the point of the thread.

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I went back and read the OP again. I hope you will assume for a moment, that I am not trolling, because I am not. The point that I am getting, is that "many casual players complain if there is talk about adding difficult content."

And I think that statement in and of itself is not untrue. Hell, I am one of them. Hard content is not for me. I don't think the VAST majority of players are served by its addition until years later and they go back and farm it unsynced. SE obviously has data to back this up, or there would be hard content everywhere and you would need a guide to reach level 10. But we don't, so....

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

- Endsinger was just bull, Endsinger EX is even worse. The meteors are finnicky as all hell, the timing is too strict and the damage is punishing. I'm sorry for not having fast reflexes to awkward "mechanics", but this thing isn't hard. It's just bull.

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I used to raid at a midcore level in other games and did some casual Savage here. "It's just bull" pretty much sums up my feeling of much of the current encounter design across the difficulty spectrum in this game. Why? Because it depends on memorization, optimal skill rotations, and hyper-coordination to line up buff windows. Detailed memorization bores me. The most engaging fights I've done gave me mechanics to react to. XIV's require me to know precisely when they'll happen so I can be in position before the tells occur.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I find it really strange that so many players on this forum are so freaked out by that sentiment. I honestly believe that the vast majority of the game's players would agree with Yoshi-P as well.

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You do realize that statement was aimed specifically at healers complaining about how disengaged they're feeling? It was an utterly tone-deaf response to a growing problem.

Your "vast majority" likely don't have the context to form an opinion. Healers are not in a good place. In an attempt to make them more accessible Square has continually simplified healing, increased heal potencies, and with the latest tank changes all but made them unnecessary for most content. It didn't stop there. Without explanation healers' DPS kits have been stripped down to a one button rotation with a smidge of DoT maintenance. There's not a lot of engagement for those that like the healing role.

On a personal level I don't intentionally heal content harder than the old 8-man MSQ roulette. It's not a role I'm comfortable enough with to willingly deal with anything harder. No amount of simplification is going to change that and I suspect that's true for almost everybody the balance team (wrongfully) thinks they're doing a favor.

Easy, most of those "casuals" aren't genuine, they're agitators that only type what they type because they know it will upset others. Just look at any threads revolving around healears.

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

The problem is that it all boils down to: Too Easy or Too Hard

There is no in between. Dungeons are so braindead that players don't even need to do the bare minimum to get through it, it gets boring very quickly. Suggesting they should up the difficulty just a little bit (Little Bit being the keyword) won't kill anybody, the skill ceiling is so low it is practically underground. Endwalkers Extremes weren't even that difficult and EX3 was a huge disappointment. Suggesting anything related to anything that will make people have to use their braincells even by a little bit leads to getting dogpiled and having your suggestion twisted and minced to fit their argument to the point that it feels like they are coiling in a fetal position and shouting: "Stopping making everything so difficult, you toxic elitist!".

Playing as a Tank or Healer is so ridiculously boring because everything is so easy that people actually have to come up with their own kind of challenge and you don't get rewarded for it, if people need to artificially make something challenging then there is definitely a problem.

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Late to respond here, but I think that is fine, considering the dev time.

If we were still getting 2 dungeons per major patch like way back, I would certainly encourage the non MSQ ones to be harder. Even now, the 2 dungeons we have at 90 that are not the msq could have been more…medium/ex level difficulty. I’d be down!

I haven’t done the current EX content, so I can’t comment, but from what I have done on older EXs, I would agree that Stormblood was kind of the sweet spot for me so far, and Shadowbringers was pretty easy comparatively.

Full disclosure though, I don’t really touch EX stuff until it’s old old. I might try it/clear ex stuff once to see how it is, but I won’t actually spend any time trying to farm or learn it until I can decide to do it unsync’d with friends. It’s fun to try it legit, and maybe get that clear legit, but it’s just not my thing.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

I used to raid at a midcore level in other games and did some casual Savage here. "It's just bull" pretty much sums up my feeling of much of the current encounter design across the difficulty spectrum in this game. Why? Because it depends on memorization, optimal skill rotations, and hyper-coordination to line up buff windows. Detailed memorization bores me. The most engaging fights I've done gave me mechanics to react to. XIV's require me to know precisely when they'll happen so I can be in position before the tells occur.


You do realize that statement was aimed specifically at healers complaining about how disengaged they're feeling? It was an utterly tone-deaf response to a growing problem.

Your "vast majority" likely don't have the context to form an opinion. Healers are not in a good place. In an attempt to make them more accessible Square has continually simplified healing, increased heal potencies, and with the latest tank changes all but made them unnecessary for most content. It didn't stop there. Without explanation healers' DPS kits have been stripped down to a one button rotation with a smidge of DoT maintenance. There's not a lot of engagement for those that like the healing role.

On a personal level I don't intentionally heal content harder than the old 8-man MSQ roulette. It's not a role I'm comfortable enough with to willingly deal with anything harder. No amount of simplification is going to change that and I suspect that's true for almost everybody the balance team (wrongfully) thinks they're doing a favor.

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I keep reading "but that statement was directed at healers!"

Uhh, okay? Doesn't make it less true for many other situations.

I would love to have some middle ground difficulty contents tbh. But no high hopes. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

How is it bait? If someone wants harder content, it exists. It is there. It is literally, there. To do. Lots of it. Go do it.

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To be fair, that awfully dismissive statement was a response to a question specifically to address healer's gameplay. Which should suffice to say, they had missed the point entirely regardless whether it's intentional brushing off or pure misunderstanding (either way it was a very rude response). Content difficulty was not, or at least only partially to be blamed for their boring gameplay. If you play a boring job, it doesn't matter whether you play an easy or difficult content. Once you've learned the encounter, your boring gameplay is all you have to turn back to; that is what healer's core gameplay (80% of time spamming 1 filler button) and to some extent, tanks' feels too.

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Originally Posted by EriShvakh

This is some "vanilla wow was hard" tier of nostalgia. Nothing in sastasha or copperbell was ever hard. It felt hard because game was new and players were bad. All ARR dungeons up to Cutter's Cry are boring tank and spank fests.

And before you go "b-but the game is easier now", just compare the difficulty between Shiva normal and Zodiark normal. And dare to tell me that shiva is harder or more complex.

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Just look at the life the spriggan had when ARR was released, even when pressing your button, you would never had 0 spriggan just because they add so much life that it took a long time to clear them and by then the boss would already be here for a long time.
It wasn't harder than before 6.1 when we were able to one shot them ? Even when the game didn't gaved us the gear from it before entering, we weren't able to one shot spriggan. Only Archer/Bards, Marauder/Warrior had an AoE at this time. Most of the time the boss had between 3-5 spriggans around him and when people were bad, it could be 10 spriggans. I've wiped more time against that boss on the first week than I've ever wiped on all HS, SN, ShB and EW dungeon. And it was not the "new mechs" things, spriggan were a fucking zerg rush on that fight back in the days. And the last boss of Sastasha, if you let one adds spawn, it was possible to go wild really fast.
Back in ARR all monster in the first ARR dungeon had more life and dealt more damage. Even after you had the dungeon gear (the one the game give you before entering thoses dungeons now.)

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

You just can't "diagram" your way through that, you can't come up with workarounds. Either you do or you don't. That's not hard. Other fights are hard, but they're doable. That's just disheartening.

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In fact, you can diagram it with markers on Intercardinals POS. The AoE will be centered on the next Intercardinals position from the slow planet strat points, and you will be safe if you are on one of the cardinals opposed to the AoE. And for the EX, the blue one, you can get pushed using the same markers. You can also avoid the next red planet by moving on the opposed side of the markers from the AoE.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Granted that this is subjective, but I think mechanics difficulty is much harder to overcome than DPS difficulty. I don't know how it was on release, but right now, you don't even have that many buttons at Satasha level. You have maybe a 2-3 button DPS combo, and a one-button AoE spam, if you're lucky enough to even have AoE at level 18. What exactly was hard about that? "Switch to your AoE button when three or more adds appear," is much easier to understand and implement than, "When the boss flies up into the air, look at the blinking lights on the side and dodge repeatedly in the order corresponding to the number of dots in each column while keeping an eye out for the circles of pain that will be spread all over the floor."

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People doesn't wants more difficulty in normal content because they're bad, Copperbell had a DPS check, one of the very first dungeon of the game had a DPS check. That's what I'm saying, people HAD to play the game, they had to push button to not make things go wild. Today, people are almost able to finish the story spaming without being a healer. Isn't there a big difference on difficulty ? Making normal content asking all the player to be participative to be cleared would be a first step in the good direction, that's what I want to say. When it will be done, we should make capped dungeon on a higher difficulty. What would be nice, would a system for capped dungeon to have a "story mode" and an "expert mode", the story mode would be in the 90 roulettes and the expert... In the expert roulettes. And only the expert mode would give weekly tome outside roulettes. Then, we could have something interesting to farm.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

To be fair, that awfully dismissive statement was a response to a question specifically to address healer's gameplay. Which should suffice to say, they had missed the point entirely regardless whether it's intentional brushing off or pure misunderstanding (either way it was a very rude response). Content difficulty was not, or at least only partially to be blamed for their boring gameplay. If you play a boring job, it doesn't matter whether you play an easy or difficult content. Once you've learned the encounter, your boring gameplay is all you have to turn back to; that is what healer's core gameplay (80% of time spamming 1 filler button) and to some extent, tanks' feels too.

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This is exactly the problem with healer, they don't want harder content, they want to have an actual gameplay 80% of the time. (That's a low assumption, I would have said 90% cause in most content, you're supposed to cast 100% damage spell.)

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Which healer only has one DPS ability?

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They didn't say healers had only one DPS ability, they said they were spamming one ability. Which is pretty much true most of the time when playing healer, you get the choice of either repeatedly spamming your single target attack or your aoe attack. Not particularly the most riveting gameplay.

Hey Peter, remember the time the devs nerfed the MSQ "into the cold" even though plenty completed it and everyone got upset when many said the instance was not hard? Tedious at parts, but not hard. I do, it was freakin' sweet.

Precisely how do those campaigning for the baseline content to improve want the challenge to be upscaled? Please less hyperbole and more specifics; hopefully there will be optional content that offers a better gradient of skill than normal/savage/ex/ultimate/unreal.

And I have to concur with my duskwight kin Illmaeran that perspective can be lost to a skilled veteran who has swung through the content countless times.
(the first and final boss in the Amarot dungeon still gives me trouble to this day with how finicky certain mechanics are regards position and timing so yes, I am probably by forum standards an awful player.)

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Originally Posted by Ketsufuma

just remember the devs need to cater to all play styles. There will always be more casual content then higher end stuff because there are more casual players. High end players get extremes savages and ultimate.

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Meanwhile, high end players can get no significant joy of challenge out of:

• Any light party content.
• Any open world content.
• Alliance raids.
• Any large-zone side-content.

Anyone who wants some sort of challenge is offered only those three flavors of 8-man beat-a-cylinder-to-death-while-moving-to-the-right-places-at-the-right-time fights in perfectly circular or rectangular rooms. That's literally all they get.

If the devs need to cater to all play styles, why the heck is there no real midcore experience? Why is there only barrel's-bottom difficulty available to light party play? Why do all hard modes (Extremes, Savage, Ultimate, etc.) have an easy mode, but none of the other types have any hard mode?

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

God forbid when you suggest they should make content just a little bit more difficult, you get people that flip out.

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Because the word casual has lost its meaning and generally now just means lazy players..

Anyone who isn't lazy is "super duper hard core elitist"

Honestly many "proper casual" not "lazy casual" players would kill for some extra oomph in terms of difficulty... but at this point there justnoverused words that have lost all meaning.

Like toxic... where anything that doesn't fall in line with your views is sooo toxic...

"Red cars are great."
"Blue cars are better"
"Your so toxic man stop bashing red cars"

I have virtually always considered myself a casual gamer. yet i play games on high difficulties , enjoy tough games like sekiro and bloodborne, and generally use games to suplement and add more challenges to life. where many people view games as escapism to escape there failing lives.

At the same time though i dont always play a lot.. in winter months maybe more but in summer months gaming often takes a back seat to other hobbies such as flying my model aircraft and stuff. so i'm no where near a hard core elite gamer.. yet i'd often get branded as such because omg you play sekiro....

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

God forbid when you suggest they should make content just a little bit more difficult, you get people that flip out.

Every casual that sees this behave as if their whole world is crumbling and they take that statement and exaggerate it reading it like: "All content needs to be Extreme/Savage Difficulty! Screw all the Casuals! Cater to the small minority! HOO-RAH!"

I mean, just chill. There is just no in between with these people, they just think there is only braindead easy and elite hardcore difficult, nothing in the middle. Dungeons are braindead easy you can clear it with just using your 1-2-3 buttons and a healbot, sure it will take longer but it is still possible.

"Nawt Mah Final Fantasy: Second Life Gaem!"

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yeah it's weird when casuals scream their head off about things that don't affect how they idle in limsa/quicksands

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

yeah it's weird when casuals scream their head off about things that don't affect how they idle in limsa/quicksands

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I idle in Gridania, thank you very much :(

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

God forbid when you suggest they should make content just a little bit more difficult, you get people that flip out.

Every casual that sees this behave as if their whole world is crumbling and they take that statement and exaggerate it reading it like: "All content needs to be Extreme/Savage Difficulty! Screw all the Casuals! Cater to the small minority! HOO-RAH!"

I mean, just chill. There is just no in between with these people, they just think there is only braindead easy and elite hardcore difficult, nothing in the middle. Dungeons are braindead easy you can clear it with just using your 1-2-3 buttons and a healbot, sure it will take longer but it is still possible.

"Nawt Mah Final Fantasy: Second Life Gaem!"

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To be fair, it does not really help your case when you then go on to say ‘Dungeons/rotations are brain dead easy’ and such. Not everyone finds the game or classes so simple, or feels like they can heal without looking at the screen etc. Kinda feels like a slap against people who do not yet feel they can do higher content, or those who simply enjoy it the way it currently is.

Personally speaking I feel they should try and cater to all players, with content that ranges from basic to very hard. I cannot speak for Savage+ content as I do not really venture into that harder content, but I feel the base endgame activities are at a good level, but thats just me. If the harder content is too easy then yeah, SE should think about making it harder and more of a challenge for the dedicated players who want that challenge.

However I would like to see in base content is a bit more variety in just what type of challenges in endgame content (Such as more dungeons which had things like the non-combat boss of Bardam's Mettle) but I think thats a different discussion. The MSQ I think could use a bit more of a kick at times, but I understand why its as it is, due to how its kinda necessary for everyone to complete no matter their job or if they just wanna craft etc. I did think it would be cool if they added a kinda ‘hard mode’ for New Game+. Give an extra incentive to replay the story, with some neat cosmetic rewards.

We’re not necessarily saying make baseline content harder (though that’s my wet dream) I just wish we had more hard modes of stuff to make the daily grinds less of a chore that I can turn off my brain for. That’s why I preferred farming my relics in Bozja, the alternative methods were enough to bore me to tears.

The only baseline I want to become harder is job design, because no matter how easy a job gets as long as it requires SOME form of thought there will always be a large chunk of the players who are adamantly against thinking and turn their nose up at rotation guides. And that’s fine for the most part, normal content doesn’t require proper rotations anyway, just about everything can be facerolled and cleared. Yes, it’s easy content. Braindead content, even. It might hurt you to hear this, but if it doesn’t require any soft of optimal rotations or crucial mechanics, it’s easy.

Other than that I want to see stuff like actual hard modes for dungeons, fates that are at a higher difficulty than the regular ones similar to Bozja’s CEs with better xp or drops, maybe real time duels like the devs were musing about a few months ago, roulettes that select from higher difficulty duties for greater rewards. Would that provide more skilled players with greater advantages? Absolutely, but those advantages could easily serve as motivation to improve. And when people get into improving and optimizing, then all of a sudden there’s a lot more to do in the game. As Misshapen Chair put it, when it feels like the sky is the limit with how good you can get at a job then it feels like the content never runs out. Unfortunately the limit as it stands now is much lower than the sky…

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

My brother in Hydaelyn all I want is a couple buttons to break up the tedium of spamming a single dps spell on healers.

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If you're doing this, then you're playing wrong. Healing is the one role where I've leveled all jobs to 90, and I've spent plenty of time in the roulettes with them. The only class that plays the way you described is White Mage at level 50. Above that, however, you should be managing your lilies, pre-emptively throwing up an asylum before big AoE burst damage, and possibly maintaining a Medica II to mitigate incoming damage. On top of that you have various cooldowns that you can rotate to keep everyone healthy. It's not the game's fault that you choose to run excusively with pre-made groups of players who don't need any healing and/or that you're so fixated on damage that you're willing to leave all the healing duties to the other guy who is frantically scrambling to maintain everyone while you enjoy your one button spam.

Every other job is even more complex than that. When I'm playing Astrologian, in particular, I'm so busy throwing out the right cards to the right players and redrawing to optimize my Astrodyne's effect that I barely have time to maintain my dot and/or throw out heals. If you find healing boring, then either you're not doing your job or you're running exclusively with well-geared, well-versed players who could probably clear most instances without a healer.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

If you're doing this, then you're playing wrong. Healing is the one role where I've leveled all jobs to 90, and I've spent plenty of time in the roulettes with them. The only class that plays the way you described is White Mage at level 50. Above that, however, you should be managing your lilies, pre-emptively throwing up an asylum before big AoE burst damage, and possibly maintaining a Medica II to mitigate incoming damage. On top of that you have various cooldowns that you can rotate to keep everyone healthy. It's not the game's fault that you choose to run excusively with pre-made groups of players who don't need any healing and/or that you're so fixated on damage that you're willing to leave all the healing duties to the other guy who is frantically scrambling to maintain everyone while you enjoy your one button spam.

Every other job is even more complex than that. When I'm playing Astrologian, in particular, I'm so busy throwing out the right cards to the right players and redrawing to power up my Astrodyne that I barely have time to maintain my dot and/or throw out heals. If you find healing boring, then either you're not doing your job or you're running exclusively with well-geared, well-versed players who could probably clear most instances without a healer.

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Me, trying to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion that I only play in pre-made groups and apparently leave all the healing to my co-healer when all I said was spamming 1 button for dps is boring

https://media.istockphoto.com/photos...cV1H8Ft-O4_II=

Since we're making assumptions here, I'm going to assume you're the kind of person that slams Medica 2 at least two times for any raidwide, followed up with Assize (because you've been holding it for this very moment instead of using it on cooldown) and Asylum to patch up any minor booboos, leaving your co-healer with nothing to heal.

Then you look at your co-healer and say "Hey, thanks for the healing NOT!" and walk out of the duty with your head held high, knowing you did a good job.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

[I]
Since we're making assumptions here, I'm going to assume you're the kind of person that slams Medica 2 at least two times for any raidwide, followed up with Assize (because you've been holding it for this very moment instead of using it on cooldown) and Asylum to patch up any minor booboos, leaving your co-healer with nothing to heal.

Then you look at your co-healer and say "Hey, thanks for the healing NOT!" and walk out of the duty with your head held high, knowing you did a good job.

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While ironically proving that there's largely no need for 2 healers in most non-high end content.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Since we're making assumptions here, I'm going to assume you're the kind of person that slams Medica 2 at least two times for any raidwide, followed up with Assize (because you've been holding it for this very moment instead of using it on cooldown) and Asylum to patch up any minor booboos, leaving your co-healer with nothing to heal.

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Nope, you assumed incorrectly. Assize is pretty much a DPS skill. I don't hold it. As for Medica II, I'll follow up with Medica I only when necessary if it's a low level instance, but I prefer Afflatus Rapture as a followup if I think everyone is too low to top off without the passive regen that Medica II provides. In general, a single Medica II is good enough. I have to say that I see far more deaths when I'm running as a DPS than I do when running as a healer. It's funny how that happens when healing is supposedly as optional as you make it out to be.

Also, I'll often commend my co-healer if I think they did a half decent job, especially if people were taking massive damage all fight long. I have no way of knowing how much everyone healed because I don't run any addons. The popular combat tracker requires administrative privileges to run, and that's a non-starter for me. If they ever build a meter into the game, I might utilize it, but I have to say that I don't miss having a DPS meter one bit.

It's not the casuals that complain about any suggestion to make the game require the smallest amount more effort to play. It's the lazy people that want all the stuff without actually doing the stuff so they can brag to their 4 RL friends that they have all the stuff... >.>

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

If you're doing this, then you're playing wrong. Healing is the one role where I've leveled all jobs to 90, and I've spent plenty of time in the roulettes with them. The only class that plays the way you described is White Mage at level 50. Above that, however, you should be managing your lilies, pre-emptively throwing up an asylum before big AoE burst damage, and possibly maintaining a Medica II to mitigate incoming damage. On top of that you have various cooldowns that you can rotate to keep everyone healthy. It's not the game's fault that you choose to run excusively with pre-made groups of players who don't need any healing and/or that you're so fixated on damage that you're willing to leave all the healing duties to the other guy who is frantically scrambling to maintain everyone while you enjoy your one button spam.

Every other job is even more complex than that. When I'm playing Astrologian, in particular, I'm so busy throwing out the right cards to the right players and redrawing to optimize my Astrodyne's effect that I barely have time to maintain my dot and/or throw out heals. If you find healing boring, then either you're not doing your job or you're running exclusively with well-geared, well-versed players who could probably clear most instances without a healer.

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I've never seen someone out themselves as an overhealer with such confidence, such self assurance, such absolute conviction and thorough belief that they know better than us.

No normal content is challenging for someone who has already experienced it. Just going to point that one out. :)

You really think all of us casuals behave that way?

I don't behave that way. And I am not unique, not at all. I am average, at best.

If you're just being hyperbolic for effect, then, well, OK. But if you really think that, you're way off-base.

If Brain: "All (group) behaves like this-"
Then Common Sense: "NOPE"
Brain: Learns.

That's really how it should be. Not a single one of us has any idea how all of some random "group X" of people behave. Yet we insist we know - all day, every day.

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Originally Posted by anhaato

It might hurt you to hear this, but if it doesn’t require any soft of optimal rotations or crucial mechanics, it’s easy.

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That's not even what makes content difficult. It can add an element of challenge as you're getting them down, sure but rotations and mechanics can be committed to muscle memory. Hell, there have even been occasions where I knew what was coming based on what point in the OST was playing, or even where I was at in my rotation. Memorization is a skill that only shows how good you are at following instructions.

What truly makes content difficult to clear is that which you don't have control over, and it is also the same thing that should be helping you clear it: The other players. In order to deal with other players you need true skills in these situations called adaptability and reaction time. This is where a savage guru can get outshined in an alliance raid by a casual. Because while the savage player is constantly in a static and deals with how well they can memorize an encounter, the casual player is consistently in unscripted situations involving their teammates. Mechanics being scripted is not the same as the player whose poor positioning has him get knocked off the arena, or a bleed status that seals their fate.

If you understand this, then you should understand how the difficulty you perceive is not the same as the difficulty the devs have to work at to make sure the game is playable for all their subscribers.

Of course, you are always welcome to make your own game with your own rules.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

That's not even what makes content difficult. It can add an element of challenge as you're getting them down, sure but rotations and mechanics can be committed to muscle memory. Hell, there have even been occasions where I knew what was coming based on what point in the OST was playing, or even where I was at in my rotation. Memorization is a skill that only shows how good you are at following instructions.

What truly makes content difficult to clear is that which you don't have control over, and it is also the same thing that should be helping you clear it: The other players.

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...You're saying the content is hard because other people are bad players? That's kinda... not the content's fault my dude. Also simplifying it down to memorization just isn't accurate. Knowing how to use your rotation while reacting to difficult mechanics at the same time uses way more brainpower. And why is memorizing your rotation a bad thing anyway? That means you've built up experience and become comfortable with your job. What, is Gordon Ramsay bad at cooking because there's probably hundreds of dishes he knows to cook like the back of his hand?

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In order to deal with other players you need true skills in these situations called adaptability and reaction time. This is where a savage guru can get outshined in an alliance raid by a casual. Because while the savage player is constantly in a static and deals with how well they can memorize an encounter, the casual player is consistently in unscripted situations involving their teammates. Mechanics being scripted is not the same as the player whose poor positioning has him get knocked off the arena, or a bleed status that seals their fate.

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There's no way you're actually mansplaining to me how playing a multiplayer game works. Crazy how the content you speak of still gets cleared relatively quickly with a bunch of shitters, huh? Recent alliances are the only "difficult" form of casual content that might get numerous wipes after the first day. Also, you act like there's no such thing as human error that creates situations that must be adapted to among "consistent" statics. Would you have the skill to adapt to E12S terminal relativity if people were dying who had necessary mitigations? What about adjusting for someone going to the wrong spot for temporal stasis in TEA? That's a whole different level of reaction time than someone hitting the wrong elemental circle in Dun Scaith.

These are some insane mental gymnastics. People working hard to get good at the game and being consistent and making few mistakes means they're bad at the game actually, the ones who have to wrangle the shitters in normal content are like totally better at the game! Cope.

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If you understand this, then you should understand how the difficulty you perceive is not the same as the difficulty the devs have to work at to make sure the game is playable for all their subscribers.

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If casual players are truly oh so good at the game for being shitter patrol, then surely the lack of skill in your df party shouldn't be a problem no matter the difficulty. But I don't see why you're arguing this, as I've said nothing about wanting all baseline content to be at savage level. I EXPLICITLY said that I want there to be more options in between. What's not clicking?

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Of course, you are always welcome to make your own game with your own rules.

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Just couldn't finish off without simping for the megacorp, huh? You people are all the same.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

While ironically proving that there's largely no need for 2 healers in most non-high end content.

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I like how you extrapolated "when mitigating raid-wide damage" to "most non-high end content."

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Originally Posted by anhaato

I've never seen someone out themselves as an overhealer with such confidence, such self assurance, such absolute conviction and thorough belief that they know better than us.

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How would you know whether or not you're an overhealer without breaking ToS by using an addon that I've never used? Also, I've never seen a normal raid wipe due to overhealing. Who is really outing themselves here?

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

How would you know whether or not you're an overhealer without breaking ToS by using an addon that I've never used? Also, I've never seen a normal raid wipe due to overhealing. Who is really outing themselves here?

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My brother in Christ you literally listed out bad healing practices. I don't need an add-on to know that you're wrong when you say that medica 2 should be applied preemptively.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

How would you know whether or not you're an overhealer without breaking ToS by using an addon that I've never used? Also, I've never seen a normal raid wipe due to overhealing.

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Because most fights follow a very set pattern for their attacks, and as a healer you'll learn when the party-wide AoEs are coming up, and when it's best to use your HoTs. Maintaining a constant Medica II to counter basic damage is going to end up with massive overhealing.