[news] Desynthesis Preview (06/27/2014)

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

One of the best things about crafting in FFXIV as compared to FFXI is that we can level everything.

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I thought this was absolutely one of the dumbest things they did.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Also: It's clearly they're expecting the players to cooperate/work together, meaning not one person can flood the market (like it seems many want to do.) That seems to be part of the balance in order to maintain what shred of economy does exist.

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There will be hardly any cooperation if things aren't super balanced. Everybody will specialize in whatever class holds the most profit/desynthesis the most useful mats. I'd rather avoid a Brayflox situation for crafters.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I thought this was absolutely one of the dumbest things they did.

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i don't mind. but i do think they should have added something to encourage players to stick with and master only a few select crafting classes. some kind of mastery level. like you could only have 3 mastery's unlocked across the board. they could be reset, but each mastery would have a proficiency level. so people wouldn't just constantly hop. or a cooldown after resigning from your mastery.

in a MMO no ONE player should be able to simply craft everything. however... just as post #40 pointed out. people may have to make compromises to get everything to lv50. then it takes much more effort and time to gear up properly all those crafts. and i can imagine more then half the players in the game aren't willing to put that much effort and time in to more then 2 or 3 crafts. either way, all-in-all if you can do the work then you deserve it.

The sky falling The sky is falling quick someone pm Nael Van Darnus we need another Meteor called down asap!

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I thought this was absolutely one of the dumbest things they did.

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Yeah well, opinions dude.

All the arguments that people bring to justify specializations do not bring anything worthwhile to the game. The other two I already addressed.

"Crafters should depends on each other"

And they do, they just don't depend on different players which is entirely fine for something that is ultimately a solo activity. It's a lot more fun for me to farm and craft things myself than to walk to the MB to buy materials.

"This is good to protect the market"

The market is fine as is with them regularly adding new stuff to sell. Too many people mistake a "good economy" with "I make 1 synth and sell it for millions". In reality a good economy is an economy where people actively buy and sell stuff and where if you put in the effort you can make a lot of gil, which is the current case. The only problem with the market is that the top of the line gear requires no crafting, and these limitations do not do a thing to solve that.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Forced specialization doesn't bother me. The crafting system should have MORE forced specialization

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The entire point of the armory system is that you aren't forced to specialize in only one class. You don't have to make a whole new character just to try something else.
At the very least, you can change your focus. And it doesn't necessarily mean that desynths will fail if the focus is too low. I just don't like the mechanic.

If this started occurring on the DoW, this discussion would already be over, and decidedly against the devs.

DoW already have the monopoly on cutting edge items...what else do the clearsellers feel threatened by?

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Yeah well, opinions dude

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Did I ever said it was a fact?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

The entire point of the armory system is that you aren't forced to specialize in only one class. You don't have to make a whole new character just to try something else.
At the very least, you can change your focus. And it doesn't necessarily mean that desynths will fail if the focus is too low. I just don't like the mechanic.

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seeing how the norm for this game has gone the way of all but abandoning the armory system, i think it should go either one of two ways:

either the armory system continues to be prioritized and allows freedom

or the armory system is replaced with a more specialized one.

i hate it when games try to tiptoe between specialized and jack-of-all-trades. do either one, or the other.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

-snip-

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To be honest it's time to realize yoshi pushed DoH/DoL as side activities in the long run, he said so himself and even 'Aetherial' gear proves this. They're basically HQ crafted gear with additional stats largely, but to be honest, crafters already overcharge by an extremely large margin on stuff that would make a profit and a lot of people like, so it really does seem more like a balance tactic more than anything. Your only choice: Make the item yourself, hope your friend will make it to you, or get ripped off (Sailor shirt is not worth 300-700k that it randomly shoots up to.)

To be fair though, DoW/M gets the edge because the game is a progression based game - if they focused on DoH/DoL the game will fall apart very quickly because people decided 1.0 was SO TERRIBLE that even content that threw in DoH/DoL like Hamlets wasn't worth bringing back to ARR and redesigned to be better.

I think the DEV Team actually did something right for a change. Only allowing players to use 300 skill points is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

I think the DEV Team actually did something right for a change. Only allowing players to use 300 skill points is awesome.

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it would be... if players with more then 3 lv30+ crafting classes could actually utilize those points to master 3 whole proficiencies.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

I think the DEV Team actually did something right for a change. Only allowing players to use 300 skill points is awesome.

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This is awesome. It sparks uniqueness and player co-ordination. Granted this will only help people that like to help others and such.

The ones that will dislike it is when having to rely on other people to get help.

So I like it! Going to have to coordinate with my friends now...much planning is needed.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

seeing how the norm for this game has gone the way of all but abandoning the armory system, i think it should go either one of two ways:

either the armory system continues to be prioritized and allows freedom

or the armory system is replaced with a more specialized one.

i hate it when games try to tiptoe between specialized and jack-of-all-trades. do either one, or the other.

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I seriously hate having to create a brand new character, then having to put him through the exact same process with a different job, just so I can experience a different aspect of a game.

Reminds me of work.

I like how I can be self sufficient with crafting. I like how I can master everything I want. I like not having to spend a dime if I don't want to.

And again, this isn't really that big a deal, your desynth mastery just makes it more likely to work right, and you can change it by refocusing. Much as I don't like having to regrind to change my focus, at least I'm not stuck.

I dislike the specialization conditions of this system.

I'm ok with player choices. Being given too much of everything on every character
can make things bland. The current way it is, one char with proper materia and all
classes leveled can HQ most everything, 100%. Thats something really startling, in
a MMO type setting, its too powerful.

Nothing wrong with having to make a choice, and not being the best at everything.

I do have a question, will there be a sort of "request desynthesis" like we do with meld? If so I don't mind this too much, otherwise it would be nearly impossible to keep switching masters for all the untradeable stuff.

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Originally Posted by Meshico

This is awesome. It sparks uniqueness and player co-ordination. Granted this will only help people that like to help others and such.

The ones that will dislike it is when having to rely on other people to get help.

So I like it! Going to have to coordinate with my friends now...much planning is needed.

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what? to design a system with an allocation of points that will allow players to fully master 3 proficiencies. and then also designing in way that only players with 3 or less Lv30+ crafting classes will be able to master 3 whole proficiencies is simply counter-intuitive.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

what? to design a system with an allocation of points that will allow players to fully master 3 proficiencies. and then also designing in way that only players with 3 or less Lv30+ crafting classes will be able to master 3 whole proficiencies is simply counter-intuitive.

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I don't think you're reading it correctly, you might want to go back and read it again.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I seriously hate having to create a brand new character, then having to put him through the exact same process with a different job, just so I can experience a different aspect of a game.

Reminds me of work.

I like how I can be self sufficient with crafting. I like how I can master everything I want. I like not having to spend a dime if I don't want to.

And again, this isn't really that big a deal, your desynth mastery just makes it more likely to work right, and you can change it by refocusing. Much as I don't like having to regrind to change my focus, at least I'm not stuck.

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exactly.

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Originally Posted by Volsung

I'm ok with player choices. Being given too much of everything on every character
can make things bland. The current way it is, one char with proper materia and all
classes leveled can HQ most everything, 100%. Thats something really startling, in
a MMO type setting, its too powerful.

Nothing wrong with having to make a choice, and not being the best at everything.

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right. but again... it's not exactly easy to level up and gear every crafting class. it takes much effort and time. so if you can do the work you deserve to self-reliant, but only up to a certain point.

and as with the proficiencies. i agree on your last note. but the system is set up just that way. you can't master everything. however, initially you can fully master 3 proficiencies. there is no reason to FURTHER limit this amount simply because you have more then 3 lv30+ crafting classes. 3 is a good number.

if you are into crafting there is a high chance you are going to use at least 2 classes.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

what? to design a system with an allocation of points that will allow players to fully master 3 proficiencies. and then also designing in way that only players with 3 or less Lv30+ crafting classes will be able to master 3 whole proficiencies is simply counter-intuitive.

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Might want to have like you know friends to maybe I don't know overcome that barrier /shrugs

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

I don't think you're reading it correctly, you might want to go back and read it again.

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no i don't. there is no logical reason why players that mostly rely on help from others would dis-like this system more then players that are mostly self-sufficient.

and 3 is a good number. not too high and not too low. the proficiencies should be manually opened so players with more then 3 lv30+ crafting classes can fully master 3 proficiencies. a book from a NPC. or an optional quest from your guild.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

if you are into crafting there is a high chance you are going to use at least 2 classes.

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I will agree with you that classes above lvl 30 should not count against your total if you dont use
them to desynth. But i'm fine with only having to pick a couple of desynthesis clases that you can max.
Again, I'm just against, letting players max everything craftwise, espeically with the ability to HQ
into infinity. Also leveling crafting these days, is not difficult.... at all.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

but then you impose this garbage. now people aren't going to want to level up more then 3 crafting classes. which okay and all. and that is how it should be in the first place. because that encourages more alts

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Fixed XD

If there had been a restrictiion on DoH classes from the start, players would have just made alts to cover all of them.

But agree, limitations now are bad :)

So we can only "main" 2 crafters if we're an Omni as having the others over lvl. 30 will cause us to be undercapped on a 3rd profession.

100%
100%
95%
1%
1%
1%
1%
1%

So I'm punished for having some other Crafters over lvl. 30...

Great.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

no i don't. there is no logical reason why players that mostly rely on help from others would dis-like this system more then players that are mostly self-sufficient.

and 3 is a good number. not too high and not too low. the proficiencies should be manually opened so players with more then 3 lv30+ crafting classes can fully master 3 proficiencies. a book from a NPC. or an optional quest from your guild.

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Again, you might want to read it again.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Again, you might want to read it again.

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He understands it, You cannot max 3 classes, if all your classes are above lvl 30.
Once a class is above level 30, it takes up 1 of your 300 points. That part I disagree
with. I am still ok with having to choose 3 only though.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

I do have a question, will there be a sort of "request desynthesis" like we do with meld? If so I don't mind this too much, otherwise it would be nearly impossible to keep switching masters for all the untradeable stuff.

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Really ^ if there's no "request desynthesis" option there's no coordination with your friends, you can't ask for help with untradeable items, this restriction will do no good.

Funny how they made a system more closer to ffxi's craft system and people think it's a step backwards...

What's the matter? Thought you guys like ffxi.

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Originally Posted by odintius

It not even close to ffxi stop hyperbole the issue over desynthesis geesh.

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Mastery of three proficiencies in desynthing... cannot master them all. Could be a jack-of-all trades but you'd never reach the full potential of any of the crafts.

SOUNDS a lot like the page explaining synthesis in ffxi in terms of leveling up.

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Originally Posted by Nayto

Funny how they made a system more closer to ffxi's craft system and people think it's a step backwards...

What's the matter? Thought you guys like ffxi.

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It not even close to ffxi stop hyperbole the issue over desynthesis geesh.

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

So we can only "main" 2 crafters if we're an Omni as having the others over lvl. 30 will cause us to be undercapped on a 3rd profession.

100%
100%
95%
1%
1%
1%
1%
1%

So I'm punished for having some other Crafters over lvl. 30...

Great.

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Punished? Levelling all 8 crafters gave you access to skills so that you can reliably HQ 2 and 3 star crafts.
You have an advantage in crafting, and you get a tiny disadvantage in desynthesis... I wouldn't call that punished.

Not to mention that if you need that third craft at cap, just sacrifice the other two temporarily. Big deal...

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Punished? Levelling all 8 crafters gave you access to skills so that you can reliably HQ 2 and 3 star crafts.
You have an advantage in crafting, and you get a tiny disadvantage in desynthesis... I wouldn't call that punished.

Not to mention that if you need that third craft at cap, just sacrifice the other two temporarily. Big deal...

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Punished with regards to Desynth. Context lady cat.

Better I think if we manually chose 3 to 100%, having the option to switch one out but needing to start from square one again. Just odd there will be a forced under-cap, another unnecessary nuisance.

So....how are they promoting cooperation between crafters when half the item you'd want to de-sync are untradeable?

I'm all in for cooperation and specialization, but as in the pic they are showing....let's say I got that Ifrit Blade and I want to desynt it and I don't have blacksmith at 100%...the item is untradeable, I cannot get other player to help me.

How exaclty would that promote cooperation?

Yet more contradictions to the Armoury System and being able to do everything fully on a single character if you put enough time and effort into it, a heavily promoted feature of the game. If they really wanted to separate themselves so badly from another 1.0 feature and go again on a more bland and safe WoW route, they should have just gotten rid entirely of the system at launch. This is starting to get worse than the Fatigue system.

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Originally Posted by Erudain

So....how are they promoting cooperation between crafters when half the item you'd want to de-sync are untradeable?

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That. /smh

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Originally Posted by Parz3val

Punished with regards to Desynth. Context lady cat.

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You're not punished - You have all your crafts to 50, meaning you can do quite a lot more than those with only 1 or two crafts. Desynthesis isn't everything nor is it even the main appeal to crafting. You're not punished with even that, you just won't be able to flood the market.

That's it.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

You're not punished - You have all your crafts to 50, meaning you can do quite a lot more than those with only 1 or two crafts. Desynthesis isn't everything nor is it even the main appeal to crafting. You're not punished with even that, you just won't be able to flood the market.

That's it.

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With regards to Desynth...

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Originally Posted by Roris

Yet more contradictions to the Armoury System and being able to do everything fully on a single character if you put enough time and effort into it, a heavily promoted feature of the game. If they really wanted to separate themselves so badly from another 1.0 feature and go again on a more bland and safe WoW route, they should have just gotten rid entirely of the system at launch. This is starting to get worse than the Fatigue system.

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You are aware that you could get two desynths to 100, desynth everything you want to desynth on those crafts, then level up two new desynths, and repeat the process?
So, you can do everything on one single character. Reaching 100 in one craft does not lock you out of reaching 100 in another. You just have to "pay" for the respec. Just like you have to pay to respec attribute bonuses... Or pay to change grand company.

I'm very much against the restrictions too. Even if they made you do a year's mindless grind work to unlock 100% on each class at the same time, I'd prefer that over this any day.

The game was always based around "if you work hard enough, you can do everything" and I don't think forced choices/respecs really follow that line of thinking at all.

This is from a crafter with all 50s but who has only actually pursued one craft to mastery. If I wanted to put in the effort and time and gil (all those materia...) to master all crafts, I could (and I will some day, just not today). It's take me a while and it wouldn't be easy but the option is there to be the master of everything for those who want to earn that right.

It's a system I love and it's the opposite of what this desynth restriction means if there isn't a way to earn the right to expand it.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

You are aware that you could get two desynths to 100, desynth everything you want to desynth on those crafts, then level up two new desynths, and repeat the process?
So, you can do everything on one single character. Reaching 100 in one craft does not lock you out of reaching 100 in another. You just have to "pay" for the respec. Just like you have to pay to respec attribute bonuses... Or pay to change grand company.

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There is no telling how much time or desynths it would take to level up desynth skill. If prior activities are something to go by, it will be pretty bad.

Is sad that people see thing like these as side activities, and yet the game seems to hold back content behind spending an enormous amount of time doing them. Are we supposed to enjoy them or not?