Monks very weak. Need rebalance

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Originally Posted by ventlus

if your full darklight with relic you should be 250+ at all times, unless its a fight like titan where theirs a big gap. This is based off all the best monks i see in raids, and our monk. Its the hardest dps class to play, but it also does the most damage, need to work at your class to be good :<

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Nice words. Very nice. I can not even imagine what damage will cause other DD classes with such gear. Aha ha))) (Sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by DuferBloodmoon

I could only assume its a dot runoff. since the parser is funky with dot readings. No MNK LB was used

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That's why DPS isn't what people should look at but Total Damage and compare it with other class.
And FFXIV-App is too broken in regards to DoTs. LogRep is far more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Nice words. Very nice. I can not even imagine what damage will cause other DD classes with such gear. Aha ha))) (Sarcasm)

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Other dd can do close to 300 DPS. Monk is very hard to pass titan since they are hard to find a group. The monks in coil are almost best players, player makes different. For a average, monk do less damage than other dd from my group experience.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

Other dd can do close to 300 DPS. Monk is very hard to pass titan since they are hard to find a group. The monks in coil are almost best players, player makes different. For a average, monk do less damage than other dd from my group experience.

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Maybe. But I can not find a group to kill Titan (hard)- always someone dies and dies and dies... I begin to think, that I will abandon this game, if I will not kill Titan. No, I dont think, that it is hard- if I could kill it alone... but I cant. I need a group of mistaking players... I tried with co-clans, with random players- no result

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Originally Posted by ventlus

Use impulse dive to back stab, fracture from warrior, blood for blood form drg. and might want to avoid using demolish. if your full darklight with relic you should be 250+ at all times,

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Why would you use fracture but not demolish?

Fracture is 220 potency over 18 seconds for 80 TP vs Demolish which is 240 potency over 18 seconds for 50 TP, Not sure about your monk but i generally don't get Paeon so its very easy to TP starve yourself on fights in Coil, especially turns 4+5 and its the main reason i personally don't use fracture or impulse (not to mention Keen flurry and bloodbath are good defensive cooldowns for survival).

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Originally Posted by Penguin

not to mention Keen flurry and bloodbath are good defensive cooldowns for survival

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Let's be real. Will Bloodbath ever save a monk in coil? The only time I can see it even being a little useful is healing through some of the cleave dmg from knight/soldier on turn 4. I would rather have damage mitigation to help survive one shots than a fairly weak lifesteal.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

Why would you use fracture but not demolish?

Fracture is 220 potency over 18 seconds for 80 TP vs Demolish which is 240 potency over 18 seconds for 50 TP, Not sure about your monk but i generally don't get Paeon so its very easy to TP starve yourself on fights in Coil, especially turns 4+5 and its the main reason i personally don't use fracture or impulse (not to mention Keen flurry and bloodbath are good defensive cooldowns for survival).

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You can definitely still use ID and Fracture in your rotations. It's all about knowing when to lay off the ID spam and when to pop Invigorate to maximize TP through-put.

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Originally Posted by Xell

Let's be real. Will Bloodbath ever save a monk in coil? The only time I can see it even being a little useful is healing through some of the cleave dmg from knight/soldier on turn 4. I would rather have damage mitigation to help survive one shots than a fairly weak lifesteal.

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Its not amazing no but it can top you off which means healers don't need to throw a heal/regen on you and can focus on healing tanks.

As i said i think earlier in this thread, maximising your dps is fine if you need to push dps to beat an encounter or if that encounter is already cleared and you are farming it for loot, but when you are still learning its much better to go for the safe route and use defensive cooldowns to make fights more manageable, bloodbath is about a 1-1.5k heal over 15 seconds if used correctly, keen flurry is a chance to mitigate 25% damage taken, both aren't amazing but both are still better for learning new fights.

And to the question has it saved my life in coil? yes it actually has lol.

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Originally Posted by Arcana

You should read more the forums. PvP has separated abilities from PvE.

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If you're not going to bother saying where you saw this, why say anything?

It still doesn't change how annoying the positional mechanic is. I don't remember any other game implementing something so tedious.

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

If you're not going to bother saying where you saw this, why say anything?

It still doesn't change how annoying the positional mechanic is. I don't remember any other game implementing something so tedious.

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I, too, have heard this a lot. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I never seen any reference. The only thing I've heard about PvP recently is how there is going to be specific PvP gear that will add resistances to CC and what not.

I have extremely low expectations for PvP in this game. With how sluggish the game's servers run in general, I cannot even imaging how PvP is going to even be playable.

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

If you're not going to bother saying where you saw this, why say anything?

It still doesn't change how annoying the positional mechanic is. I don't remember any other game implementing something so tedious.

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Positional bonuses is actually what attracted me to playing a monk.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

Positional bonuses is actually what attracted me to playing a monk.

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Position is definitely not bonus. Without right position monk DPS is way below other job. With perfect position you can have some DPS output close to other class.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

Positional bonuses is actually what attracted me to playing a monk.

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Listen, when you do AK and that 1 person falls off and you need to finish off the wall fast, tell me where that positional bonus damage is at?

When you are fighting a boss and it's aoe'n to no end; or positions itself in such a way where you have NO CHOICE but to attack it from where you are standing tell me how this is a plus? Example: Chimera, hydra.

I like fighting bosses like the wall. That's a very interesting fight, they should have more of these sort of bosses in game and remove positional damage requirements so that your damage isn't going to compromise an interesting/fun battle. Positioning for extra damage should be limited to ONE move.

I repeat, it's NOT fun to jump around with a majority of the skills and struggle for that extra 30-70 dps.

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

I repeat, it's NOT fun to jump around with a majority of the skills and struggle for that extra 30-70 dps.

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I don't agree, for me it brings a complexity to the class outside of pushing buttons in the correct order. I really chose Monk because in beta 3 I felt like at 50 the class would be more complex than most which makes it fun...to me. Monk needs some quality of life changes (pretty much all of them involve making disconnects more friendly to where GL stacks don't drop so quickly) but I enjoy the class a lot as a whole.

Playing the Monk job means your gonna be fast, Have to be fast. Be in that position to get the best damage, run around to avoid aoe, keep your buffs up cause 12 seconds is plenty of time to keep GL up. If you can't keep it up your not playing to your best. They even decided to be nice and give you a skill called Perfect Balance to let you use any other skill without having to make a combo be it whether you mess up or the boss runs away. Example ; Snap punch x3, Demo. etc. I personally have no trouble out-damaging my other FC members ( Black Mage) or right there with them anywhere all the way up to Coil.

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

I repeat, it's NOT fun to jump around with a majority of the skills and struggle for that extra 30-70 dps.

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Go play bard. They have no positional requirements and do great DPS from last I heard. Last thing we need is every class being the same.... I enjoy positional switching and demon wall makes me appreciate that even more.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Go play bard. They have no positional requirements and do great DPS from last I heard. Last thing we need is every class being the same.... I enjoy positional switching and demon wall makes me appreciate that even more.

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I played version 1.0 specifically for Monk before this positional junk was implemented.

You like being forced to "assume the position" I don't, I like freedom of my movements without penalty. And it's perfectly fine if you appreciate not doing optimal damage on a frontal only enemy; I don't share your enjoyment of this disadvantage.

Sure. Keep the positional requirments but then monks should overall do way more damage. I don't get it why monks are the only class that have to keep the GL stacks up all the time and uses the positional advantage to be competitive. The way monks are played you'd figure they would be without the best DPS class when handled perfectly but they are not.

i'm like akamu_aniketos, while the beta i have try to understand why they have put soo much stuff to the monk gameplay. indeed it's ask a loot for be use correctly, but the point that i still wonder, it's why did they add the position when they have created the combo system?

- selfbuff
- position
- combo system
- DoT

i still feel like the position must be take out of the monk, a martial artist life depend of he freedom of mouvement, and the position take out this!

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

I don't think any mnk has haymaker on their bar after 40...

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Thats why it needs fixing!!

Haymaker is an awesome move...if it was off the gc and the animation is faster.

It would be a bonus to our dps every time we dodged an attack. Haymaker criticals for 500-600 damage right now on bosses. Thats only with full DL gear. Definitely a great tool if it wasnt so worthless half the time.

Right now, every time Haymaker pops up, I have to make a choice. Keep my buffs going or go for Haymaker. If it does not critical, its still 300 ish in damage, but the problem is: I could have gotten 300 ish with a regular cooldown like Twin snakes or Dragon Kick. And those cooldowns give us monks buffs.

Haymaker should have been extra damage for monks. Haymaker should have been off the grid/ off the gc.

Problem atm is the fact that u have to build momentum with a mnk.


U need to build up the infamous 3gl, and than start the real dps.

Each time a primal warp/jump etc u lose 90% of the time the GL.


SE need to boost GL a lot, extending it's duration OR move the 21% DMG 15% ASPD in a single greased lighting.


Plus monk lack a good finisher from the back, we are forced to end all the rotations with a flank snap punch most of the time, alternating with demo when needed, how about a back attack that give us greased lighting? maybe a 200 pot attack or something.

I just hope they increase the duration of GL and we should be good.

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Originally Posted by Akamu_Aniketos

I played version 1.0 specifically for Monk before this positional junk was implemented.

You like being forced to "assume the position" I don't, I like freedom of my movements without penalty. And it's perfectly fine if you appreciate not doing optimal damage on a frontal only enemy; I don't share your enjoyment of this disadvantage.

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So, why wouldn't you play another class when ARR released knowing this positional bonuses were being implemented? It isn't like you didn't know this would be a mechanic of Monks. It kills me that you would knowingly play a class that you know has mechanics you don't like, then complain about said mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Maybe. But I can not find a group to kill Titan (hard)- always someone dies and dies and dies... I begin to think, that I will abandon this game, if I will not kill Titan. No, I dont think, that it is hard- if I could kill it alone... but I cant. I need a group of mistaking players... I tried with co-clans, with random players- no result

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Are you best #1 HUEHUEHEUHE? Honestly, you cannot become anymore bad than this.

Took me 14hrs of sitting in titan over the span of 3-4 days with the SAME EXACT group to finally down him. Put some effort in and dont ask for everything to be given to yourself so easily. You, and people like you are whats ruining good, difficult, games. Please, just quit this game and stop posting things like this.

Too many suggestions basically ammount to make gl3 permanent.
Theres a couple of quality of life issues but the class is fine damage wise.

I guess they could move some of the gl damage to baseline attacks to close the gap between good players and mediocre players.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

So, why wouldn't you play another class when ARR released knowing this positional bonuses were being implemented? It isn't like you didn't know this would be a mechanic of Monks. It kills me that you would knowingly play a class that you know has mechanics you don't like, then complain about said mechanics.

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You assume too much and fail at understanding the points.

Playing Monk is why I started playing Final Fantasy Online since back in 2004. They implemented the positional requirements at the end of version 1.0 (2011). I have every class maxed out and play other classes. Playing my favorite class should not be so cumbersome.

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Originally Posted by 0caid0

Too many suggestions basically ammount to make gl3 permanent.
Theres a couple of quality of life issues but the class is fine damage wise.

I guess they could move some of the gl damage to baseline attacks to close the gap between good players and mediocre players.

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This. Class is good dmg wise assuming gl3 doesn't fall off which is a QoL issue we need resolved.

they need to:


reduce the cd on shoulder tackle.

Remove the opopo requirement for the silence on AoD.

Rework all the 3 fists skill, those buff must be a signature moves for monk.

Rework how GL work, turn it to 1 big stack or increase the duration.

I find mantra too pretty meh, no real use atm.

Maybe let us use one IIm punch on something?.....

seriously i think that if they take out the positioning of the monk skill we will solve most of it trouble, more freedom into the cycle and into our position in a fight.
indeed GL is a selfbuff with many fail, like the fact it increase the damage, the speed itself was enough i still try to figure why they did nerf the damage of the monk by doing this but well.

my two main concern:
- the position in the skill
- the bonus of damage from GL that is not needed, for make the selfbuff usefull!

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

This. Class is good dmg wise assuming gl3 doesn't fall off which is a QoL issue we need resolved.

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No its not, i manage to keep it up. Other players manage to keep it up. Its fine.

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Originally Posted by Jabba

they need to:
Remove the opopo requirement for the silence on AoD.
I find mantra too pretty meh, no real use atm.
Maybe let us use one IIm punch on something?.....

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Agreed with AoD, shouldn't be part of the combo.
Mantra is quite good actually. Use to help healers during stacking/healing times after a big nuke, think Garuda, Titan, Ifrit, Twintania, etc.
One IIm punch is so useful, I don't know what you mean. You can remove the small physical dmg buff from Dulahans in AK that they cast when they get to 10% hp. And uh..I'm sure there is something else...

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Originally Posted by Xell

Agreed with AoD, shouldn't be part of the combo.
Mantra is quite good actually. Use to help healers during stacking/healing times after a big nuke, think Garuda, Titan, Ifrit, Twintania, etc.
One IIm punch is so useful, I don't know what you mean. You can remove the small physical dmg buff from Dulahans in AK that they cast when they get to 10% hp. And uh..I'm sure there is something else...

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You mean, you can remove a buff that never gets put on something when your group DPS doesn't blow ass? I've never seen a Dulahan get that buff up with a decent group.

I think Monk is fine as it is, even though it seems like a lot more over-all effort for about the same over-all DPS compared to other damage dealing jobs.

Having said that, I think Monk could definitely use some improvements, and I'm not just saying that since Pugilist/Monk has been my primary class/job since 1.0. My idea before I came into this thread was to move around 10% damage from Greased Lightning III to Fists of Fire, but I also think that significantly lowering the cool-down for Shoulder Tackle, removing the stun component, and having it grant a Greased Lightning stack is a great idea towards over-all balance.

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Originally Posted by Hoffburger

You mean, you can remove a buff that never gets put on something when your group DPS doesn't blow ass? I've never seen a Dulahan get that buff up with a decent group.

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If by blow ass you mean not overgearing the place, sure. I personally love removing the buff myself, but he only ever puts it on himself when he has around 10% hp left for my groups :P

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Originally Posted by 0caid0

No its not, i manage to keep it up. Other players manage to keep it up. Its fine.

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In coil I agree for the most part if never drops once engaged. But on hm primals? Dropped all the time. You can't avoid it on ifrit and Titan.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

In coil I agree for the most part if never drops once engaged. But on hm primals? Dropped all the time. You can't avoid it on ifrit and Titan.

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Its intended to drop off at them points. The fact we keep up on damage despite it says everything about monk damage - its fine.

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Originally Posted by Rainsworth

They just need to increase the buff duration of greased lightning, that's it.

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This would just alter our rotation more than it would increase GL upkeep convenience though. I'd be fine with adding something that keeps the buff from losing duration under certain conditions (though this would somewhat defeat the purpose of TP conservation and being fast on your feet), but simply extending the GL duration does nothing but allow you to slip in more Impulse Drives or just be outright sloppy while fighting a single mob.

More alternatives:
- Lose only one level of GL at a time
- Reduce Perfect Balance CD (and possibly duration)
- Extend stance duration
- GL duration degeneration slows after not attacking for 3 seconds.
- GL duration increased after killing something.
- Additional use to Fists of Wind -- when already applied, using it again will consume one rank of GL to apply a stacking movement speed and dodge buff, but lock the duration of it and your stance until you resume attacking. Would be nice to see such GL-consuming buff possibilities on Fire and Earth as well.

Final alternative:
- Understand that it's part of the job design to ramp up damage again after each major break. This might not seem the smoothest, most fun, or most Monk-like (whatever that might be), but we can still deal plenty of damage, and our AoE silence and Mantra do fetch some unique usage.

I've moved on from PGL for now, but what I would really like to see is a new gap closer, only usable at range and for minor damage, that extends the duration of the current GL by about 5 seconds. Would greatly help GL uptime on bosses that are difficult to stick on.

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Originally Posted by 0caid0

Its intended to drop off at them points. The fact we keep up on damage despite it says everything about monk damage - its fine.

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You can explain this to them all day long but they don't understand.

Hey guys so i just saw this and it got me thinking. if monk is somewhat weak right now i say they play around with the fists. Right now they are kinda lackluster. so here is my proposal.

Fists of Fire: Increase damage dealt by 10% and cause burning for 3 seconds when skill is used duration stacks.

Fists of the wind: up movement speed by 15% as well as combine all greased lightning stacks so that one rotation always gives 3 stacks but the duration is cut. so that its easier to get up and fall off.

Fists of earth: decreases damage taken by 15% as well as increases duration of all buffs.

Now the way I see it this would give monk more options. for instance I see fire now as more of a high dps but is not very flexible with motion. I see Wind as Lower dps than fire but is more friendly with movement allowing us to take GL off and put it up quicker, and Earth for those times when dying is not an option, the increase in mitigation as well as the increase up times of featherfoot and mantra will offer more survivability than the other two but will offer less dps than wind.

Also with balance in mind because right now the fists have such a low cd you could get GL up really fast with wind and then switch to fire. so in name of balance I would suggest a 20-30 second cd on the fists in this change