"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Of course this all assumes single pulls only add five minutes, which isn't the case with higher level dungeons. Plenty of Stormblood and Shadowbringers dungeons are add as much as ten minutes if you're single pulling.

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And, usually, when you end up in a single pulling party, there might also be other issues on top of the single pulling that'd lengthen the run.

The fact that pull sizes can be controlled by the tank is thankfully still left as an option in dungeons for us players.
Think of it as a sign of confidence by the dev team that we, as a community, can at least socially negotiate what kind of pulls everyone wants to on by-party basis.
So please, do not default to assuming the worst. Because they do have all the power to just force one-size-fits-all solution if the community cannot even be made responsible to handle that kind of basic communication challenge.

From my understanding, this is less about pull size and more about speed.

OP, people are fast because it is the most effective way to maximize their reward. The less time spent to get the reward the better. This is human nature. They want the fastest way to achieve something.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Just make dungeons harder. Make trash hit harder and have more health. Problem solved. If players only have one option/speed to go through dungeons we won't have to be so divided on how to proceed.

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Dungeons are easy by design. They have to be farm-friendly. People are going to be spamming dungeons for EXP. Leveling multiple jobs. Some will be spamming them for dailies (Expert dungeons). You don't want spammable content to be hard.

Players falling behind could be due to many reasons:
1- They are slow at turns. They don't know where the next turn is or the exit to the next room.
2- As a caster/ranged they always stay very far behind even when attacking. They can step closer when they see mobs/bosses dying. So they can move with the rest of the party to the next pack.
3- Not using sprint properly. Running into walls or running sideways a lot instead of a straight line. They're not using it in alignment with the tank, but instead using it as a catchup button.

These are what I've mostly noticed with slow players in my parties.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Dungeons are easy by design. They have to be farm-friendly. People are going to be spamming dungeons for EXP. Leveling multiple jobs. Some will be spamming them for dailies (Expert dungeons). You don't want spammable content to be hard.

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This is where I would have to disagree, they do not need to be easy, they just need to appropriately reward you for the time/effort invested. If dungeons were to become harder the simple solution is to increase the gains per dungeon. Difficult dungeons would reward you with more exp and more tomestones per dungeon, leading to basically the same amount of time invested but also less spam.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

This is where I would have to disagree, they do not need to be easy, they just need to appropriately reward you for the time/effort invested. If dungeons were to become harder the simple solution is to increase the gains per dungeon. Difficult dungeons would reward you with more exp and more tomestones per dungeon, leading to basically the same amount of time invested but also less spam.

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No, they're intentionally easy so they're accessible, and by 'accessible' they mean (no offense to anyone) "so easy a literal toddler can go through it" - not patronizing at all

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Originally Posted by Allegor

No, they're intentionally easy so they're accessible, and by 'accessible' they mean (no offense to anyone) "so easy a literal toddler can go through it" - not patronizing at all

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Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

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I personally would love to see more open spaces like Aurum Vale in dungeons. Basically large rooms where you simply don’t need to kill everything in the room. You could blitz through and suffer through a large pack, or stealth by and have less mobs to deal with. Both ways can be good fun and if bored you can always try something crazy in such a situation.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

This is where I would have to disagree, they do not need to be easy, they just need to appropriately reward you for the time/effort invested. If dungeons were to become harder the simple solution is to increase the gains per dungeon. Difficult dungeons would reward you with more exp and more tomestones per dungeon, leading to basically the same amount of time invested but also less spam.

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The difficulty really doesn't matter. It's the duration (time/rewards). This can be true to both easy and hard content.

Imagine the Moogle treasure event, people can farm the hardest content, but they don't. They go for the fasters way to farm. It's always time > difficulty. People will always try to figure out the easiest and fastest way to farm.

You can have an easy dungeon that takes 15 minutes to clear with X rewards. And a harder version of it that takes 30 minutes to clear with X*2 rewards. This doesn't fix anything. This still means that the vast majority of players will pick the easier version over the harder version.

Why? There is the risk factor. You're more likely to make mistakes that can affect the clear time in a harder dungeon. Which in result leads to getting less reward from the harder dungeon compared to a group that is consistently farming the easier one.

Increasing the harder dungeon rewards to be more than double the normal one doesn't fix it either. Because as you said, more rewards = more time. Don't forget higher risk factor as well. Else you'll be handing rewards for no effort.

I just go by if my tank or healer has a sprout next to their name.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

The difficulty really doesn't matter. It's the duration (time/rewards). This can be true to both easy and hard content.

Imagine the Moogle treasure event, people can farm the hardest content, but they don't. They go for the fasters way to farm. It's always time > difficulty. People will always try to figure out the easiest and fastest way to farm.

You can have an easy dungeon that takes 15 minutes to clear with X rewards. And a harder version of it that takes 30 minutes to clear with X*2 rewards. This doesn't fix anything. This still means that the vast majority of players will pick the easier version over the harder version.

Why? There is the risk factor. You're more likely to make mistakes that can affect the clear time in a harder dungeon. Which in result leads to getting less reward from the harder dungeon compared to a group that is consistently farming the easier one.

Increasing the harder dungeon rewards to be more than double the normal one doesn't fix it either. Because as you said, more rewards = more time. Don't forget higher risk factor as well. Else you'll be handing rewards for no effort.

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But it doesn’t matter because they can find ways to incentivize completing the harder dungeons. If you queue for a roulette and quit a full party you lose the roulette bonus. Simple, of course if someone else quits you are free to go, it wasn’t you trying to cheese it. If you leave mentor roulette with a full party, you lose 24 hours of the mentor roulette.

If you are grinding relic stuff, of course people are going to take the easy route, that’s okay. But the point being is that people only cheese things because they can. If the punishments for cheesing harder content are deterrent enough it wouldn’t happen. And you also wouldn’t get people fishing for an easy clear either, because they know what they’re signing up for.

In other words, not only are the dungeons ridiculously easy but the punishments for abandoning the few slightly harder ones almost non existent. Yeah, I can see that combination bringing out super toxic attitudes.

Whereas if stuff is hard and you are STUCK because abandoning it isn’t worth it you may as well be nice and get involved so you can get through it.

This super easy design brings out the toxicity people are trying to avoid in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Which is, ironically, part of the problem. Making dungeons essentially braindead encourages the speed mentality because not only are they incredibly boring otherwise, but the lack of direct feedback to discourage players from wall pulling doesn't exist. Case in point, you'll rarely see Aurum Vale being wall pulled. Why? Between the environmental hazard and mob density makes it not worth the risk. If dungeons as a whole were designed with this intent, mass pulling wouldn't be nearly as common. Likewise, priority mobs would further discourage wall pulling as, once again, the risk outweighs the benefits.

In other words, in the dev team's pursuit of constant accessibility, they went so far in the opposite direction as to incentivize a mentality those players who benefit from the accessibility actively dislike.

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The only room that can't be full pulled is the first one though. Aurum Vale is so highly exaggerated in difficulty. The first pull can be incredibly easy, like literally straight through. People just need to know where (not) to stand and where to pull. Now there are some dungeons with mobs that can't be avoided, a full pull in one of those is usually a wipe with a pug party. There is never a reason to do a full pull in something like Aurum Vale's first room, like no real reason.

The easiest way to handle Aurum Vale's first pull is to have everyone sprint into the boss room and kill everything that aggroed on the way there at the entrance without pulling the boss. That being said, this strategy can't be pulled off with players that do not use aoes or cooldowns. It requires a basic understanding of the abilities they have at that point.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

The only room that can't be full pulled is the first one though. Aurum Vale is so highly exaggerated in difficulty. The first pull can be incredibly easy, like literally straight through. People just need to know where (not) to stand and where to pull. Now there are some dungeons with mobs that can't be avoided, a full pull in one of those is usually a wipe with a pug party. There is never a reason to do a full pull in something like Aurum Vale's first room, like no real reason.

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I don't disagree but I used Aurum Vale more for example sake. Regardless of the justification, it's among the very few dungeons people are cautious towards. That one room scares people more than every single dungeon released in Stormblood and Shadowbringers. Which speaks volumes to have incredibly faceroll they've become. Even just putting that one "treasure room" of sorts in each dungeon would actually make them more interesting, albeit not by much.

Goes to show just how low a bar we have nowadays, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

The easiest way to handle Aurum Vale's first pull is to have everyone sprint into the boss room and kill everything that aggroed on the way there at the entrance without pulling the boss.

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Minor Quibble:

You should immediately go around the corner so the ranged mobs will follow you.

I agree 100%. I understand that wall to wall pulling makes the game more interesting as far as combat goes, but in dungeons that have specific mechanics or puzzles should really have some time spent on them IMO. Sometimes I find myself in dungeons that I've done multiple times and I still don't know how we opened some door, like at least someone could type out a quick explanation?

It don't matter to me, big pulls or normal pulls, I signed up for the said duty so I know what I'm getting.

I don't mind if others pull enemies as long as they bring em to me, but if they do it on a boss I'll purposely turn my tank stance off and fight at the rear of the boss and if they complain I just say I thought u wanted to tank so I figured I'd let ya.

If your tanking u set the pace so if u don't want big pulls just ignore peeps, u might get kicked but I'm sure some groups will just go with u, me personally whatever job I'm on I'm fine with big or small pulls.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

If your tanking u set the pace so if u don't want big pulls just ignore peeps, u might get kicked but I'm sure some groups will just go with u, me personally whatever job I'm on I'm fine with big or small pulls.

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From one tank to another - this is factually incorrect and I genuinely don't know where you people keep getting the idea, other than it being some weird ego thing.

Also refusing to do your job during a boss fight just because someone pulled it ahead of you is griefing and reportable. Grow up and do better. There is no difference between someone pulling mobs to you and someone pulling the boss - you gain aggro near instantly regardless.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

From one tank to another - this is factually incorrect and I genuinely don't know where you people keep getting the idea, other than it being some weird ego thing.

Also refusing to do your job during a boss fight just because someone pulled it ahead of you is griefing and reportable. Grow up and do better. There is no difference between someone pulling mobs to you and someone pulling the boss - you gain aggro near instantly regardless.

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Oh my God Kaoru, you can't just tell a tank to do their job! Don't you know that's like, toxic and stuff?

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

From one tank to another - this is factually incorrect and I genuinely don't know where you people keep getting the idea, other than it being some weird ego thing.

Also refusing to do your job during a boss fight just because someone pulled it ahead of you is griefing and reportable. Grow up and do better. There is no difference between someone pulling mobs to you and someone pulling the boss - you gain aggro near instantly regardless.

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I have yet to see someone get banned for letting a dps that early pulled a boss die. In fact if you do that in a raid the DPS would be considered a hard griefer and get booted instantly if they don’t apologize. Just because dungeons are lol content doesn’t change the fact that DPS shouldn’t be pulling bosses. If you do that you are at the mercy of the tank being chill about it.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

From one tank to another - this is factually incorrect and I genuinely don't know where you people keep getting the idea, other than it being some weird ego thing.

Also refusing to do your job during a boss fight just because someone pulled it ahead of you is griefing and reportable. Grow up and do better. There is no difference between someone pulling mobs to you and someone pulling the boss - you gain aggro near instantly regardless.

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I mean, to be fair, if some sprout is watching a cutscene and someone else pulls, I'm 100% leaving them to tank the boss for a few seconds, if they even survive that long.

(also partially related but 15 seconds is an awfully short window of time considering there are several cutscenes that are well over a minute long)

I have a solution. Scale the xp reward based on time required to complete the dungeon up to 30 minutes. If the dungeon takes 30 minutes, you get 100% of the xp. if it takes 15 minutes, you get 50% of the xp. So if you get a tank that pulls small and takes 30 minutes, you will be compensated with more xp. No more complaining.

Why should we reward players who don't know how to play their role properly with more exp?

I think this thread has been gone off topic

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I have a solution. Scale the xp reward based on time required to complete the dungeon up to 30 minutes. If the dungeon takes 30 minutes, you get 100% of the xp. if it takes 15 minutes, you get 50% of the xp. So if you get a tank that pulls small and takes 30 minutes, you will be compensated with more xp. No more complaining.

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But why would you punish players that perform good? What?
"How dare they to play better than me"

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I have yet to see someone get banned for letting a dps that early pulled a boss die. In fact if you do that in a raid the DPS would be considered a hard griefer and get booted instantly if they don’t apologize. Just because dungeons are lol content doesn’t change the fact that DPS shouldn’t be pulling bosses. If you do that you are at the mercy of the tank being chill about it.

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You have to hit one button to take aggro. Quit being lazy and egotistical, do your job and get the run over with. Going on a power trip just wastes literally everyone's time, including yours.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I mean, to be fair, if some sprout is watching a cutscene and someone else pulls, I'm 100% leaving them to tank the boss for a few seconds, if they even survive that long.

(also partially related but 15 seconds is an awfully short window of time considering there are several cutscenes that are well over a minute long)

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That ain't excusable either. People get ported into the boss room at this point, so it's a nonissue most of the time. Quit making excuses to not do your job.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

Oh my God Kaoru, you can't just tell a tank to do their job! Don't you know that's like, toxic and stuff?

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Sad part is, most people genuinely think asking for basic competency and someone to perform their job properly is toxic. It's ridiculous and the entire reason a lot of good players are basically refusing to do content with randoms anymore, which is pulling many good tanks and healers from the queues.

Maybe once people are struggling to finish anything because the tank can't even survive single pulls and the healer is running out of MP curebotting to no avail, they'll wake up.

Until then, I'll be doing most of my 4-man content with NPCs who do their job and don't whine about inane things.

Yes but now you reward bad play. The small pulls and take it easy is good when new people are in. But if all are people 5hat run it for the 100 time why punish then.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I have a solution. Scale the xp reward based on time required to complete the dungeon up to 30 minutes. If the dungeon takes 30 minutes, you get 100% of the xp. if it takes 15 minutes, you get 50% of the xp. So if you get a tank that pulls small and takes 30 minutes, you will be compensated with more xp. No more complaining.

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No, actually.

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I have a solution. Scale the xp reward based on time required to complete the dungeon up to 30 minutes. If the dungeon takes 30 minutes, you get 100% of the xp. if it takes 15 minutes, you get 50% of the xp. So if you get a tank that pulls small and takes 30 minutes, you will be compensated with more xp. No more complaining.

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I don't know how it would benefit someone who is already at maxed XP. Or that XP is very easy to come by. So the time it would take for you to get 100% XP vs 50%, in this example would be about 15 minutes. Other content could be done that would generate more XP in less the time. I would think that people would still pull as much as possible. (which should be done..pull away if you can.)

Someone mentioned not wanting to take the enjoyment out of the mass pulling for others..I guess those people are easily entertained by flashy lights..like dangling keys in front of a baby!

I've never found any enjoyment pulling all the way to the wall (not that I don't do it. After you do it a few times get comfy with it, it really doesn't matter..but it's not ..fun...) and have everyone go all flashy to the point that my cat now has epilepsy. Remember, for some these dungeons are for XP. For others they're just another roadblock to get through so they can complete their dailies or getting a sticker for kloe. I'm sure there's other examples.

The people who need XP will eventually get to the same mindset, just takes time. As long as you're trying to improve and the people you're with try to help you get there. I say help b/c yelling at someone or getting upset over a single dungeon run in a video game doesn't help anyone.

A few nights ago I went into a level 50 dungeon on my NIN for XP. The DRK was 80 so not there for XP..great glamour but started pulling groups of 3. Eventually with the roaming mobs and the healer saying they can pull more the tank started pulling more mobs. As a DPS at that point, my part is to make sure that what is pulled dies fast..as it should at level 50.

It wasn't full wall pulls but it went from 3 to half way there. There was one person who got upset, and it added a bit of flavor to the run that the nagging person died being pushed off the edge while complaining. Little treats like those tow things..make the run for me. I hope the tank continues to grow and pulls away next roulette. I hope the person who got upset gets a hold of their life and realize there's a better way of helping people, IF they want to be helped.

Ok, bye o/

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I have a solution. Scale the xp reward based on time required to complete the dungeon up to 30 minutes. If the dungeon takes 30 minutes, you get 100% of the xp. if it takes 15 minutes, you get 50% of the xp. So if you get a tank that pulls small and takes 30 minutes, you will be compensated with more xp. No more complaining.

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How about we do it the other way to give players an incentive to do their best? Give full rewards (XP, tomestones, etc.) for a 30 min run and a bonus 1% for every 20 secs below that, up to a bonus 45% at 15 mins.

While we're at it let's add a reward based on personal performance. A 1% boost on rewards for everything above 50th percentile dps should be sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

How about we do it the other way to give players an incentive to do their best? Give full rewards (XP, tomestones, etc.) for a 30 min run and a bonus 1% for every 20 secs below that, up to a bonus 45% at 15 mins.

While we're at it let's add a reward based on personal performance. A 1% boost on rewards for everything above 50th percentile dps should be sufficient.

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The devs don't have the storage space to store all the records and calculations and such for measuring and tracking percentile for every dungeon and every class. A better solution would be flat DPS targets. However, you would also be leaving that decision to the same devs that shit all over healer design, have no fucking idea what to do with one of their healers, and think healers are supposed to heal AND TAKE AWAY DPS BUTTONS TO ENCOURAGE IT INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON FIGHT DESIGN TO ENCOURAGE IT. Do you want those clowns deciding those thresholds and possibly imposing stupidly excessive HPS requirements for bonus XP?

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I have a solution. Scale the xp reward based on time required to complete the dungeon up to 30 minutes. If the dungeon takes 30 minutes, you get 100% of the xp. if it takes 15 minutes, you get 50% of the xp. So if you get a tank that pulls small and takes 30 minutes, you will be compensated with more xp. No more complaining.

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What a horrible, horrible idea. Punish good players? Reward those who don’t try? Where do you come up with this stuff…
And who’s to say people wouldn’t rush through anyways and then afk at the last boss. Think through what you’re about to say before you say it

Or, groundbreaking idea, leave everything as is?

If you don't like your group, votekick someone or leave. Specific play styles don't need an incentive.

People who like difficult trash mobs, long dungeons and hard fights in the DF are in the minority. No one ever leaves the group because they got Amaurot or Snowcloak or The Hydra and they don't like the content. They drop out because of bad team members or when they get Aurum Vale, extreme trials or main scenario dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

You have to hit one button to take aggro. Quit being lazy and egotistical, do your job and get the run over with. Going on a power trip just wastes literally everyone's time, including yours.



That ain't excusable either. People get ported into the boss room at this point, so it's a nonissue most of the time. Quit making excuses to not do your job.



Sad part is, most people genuinely think asking for basic competency and someone to perform their job properly is toxic. It's ridiculous and the entire reason a lot of good players are basically refusing to do content with randoms anymore, which is pulling many good tanks and healers from the queues.

Maybe once people are struggling to finish anything because the tank can't even survive single pulls and the healer is running out of MP curebotting to no avail, they'll wake up.

Until then, I'll be doing most of my 4-man content with NPCs who do their job and don't whine about inane things.

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Look, I’m all for speed runs and double pulls as they are way more fun so long as everyone is having a good time. But your mentality about there being only way to do things and otherwise people aren’t doing their job isn’t correct. And it’s also against the TOS quite literally because it is the definition of enforcing a play style. If you carry that detrimental attitude into all your dungeons it’s easy to surmise you get pretty toxic and passive aggressive when people don’t do things your way. So I would encourage you to keep doing dungeons with trusts until you can learn to have a good time with others.

Personally I think this game is too easy and find single pulls boring. But I’m not going to go on forums to shame people into doing them my way because the occasional nervous or new tank doesn’t. If anything I blame bland dungeon design for people being so bored they just want to rush through everything.

The genuine correct way to do this is to encourage them to make big pulls, if they don’t catch on directly ask for them, if they explain why they don’t want to attempt to respect their decision, and if everyone else is in agreement that the dungeon is being made insanely long and the tank won’t cooperate removing him.

But I have yet to see that, normally people speed up or speak up if they really don’t want to and the party is semi chill about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yuella

I have a solution. Scale the xp reward based on time required to complete the dungeon up to 30 minutes. If the dungeon takes 30 minutes, you get 100% of the xp. if it takes 15 minutes, you get 50% of the xp. So if you get a tank that pulls small and takes 30 minutes, you will be compensated with more xp. No more complaining.

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I'd just never touch duty finder again. I already get annoyed when I have to donate an hour to do Prae on leveling an alt job. Im already on a semi-tight schedule 6 days a week with work -- if the duty meta becomes "extend the easy dungeon to as long as possible" ill just stick with my jobs at max level from now on and not worry about duties in the future.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

I'd just never touch duty finder again. I already get annoyed when I have to donate an hour to do Prae on leveling an alt job. Im already on a semi-tight schedule 6 days a week with work -- if the duty meta becomes "extend the easy dungeon to as long as possible" ill just stick with my jobs at max level from now on and not worry about duties in the future.

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I think you wouldn't be the only one, because at that point you can just run it with Trusts and 100% have the same experience...actually probably a better experience because while Trusts also take 30 minutes they atleast don't fail mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Or, groundbreaking idea, leave everything as is?

If you don't like your group, votekick someone or leave. Specific play styles don't need an incentive.

People who like difficult trash mobs, long dungeons and hard fights in the DF are in the minority. No one ever leaves the group because they got Amaurot or Snowcloak or The Hydra and they don't like the content. They drop out because of bad team members or when they get Aurum Vale, extreme trials or main scenario dungeons.

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Except nobody is asking for difficult, long dungeons. At least not in the sense of it being overly challenging. People asking for dungeons to require more than a pulse to clear.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

If you carry that detrimental attitude into all your dungeons it’s easy to surmise you get pretty toxic and passive aggressive when people don’t do things your way. So I would encourage you to keep doing dungeons with trusts until you can learn to have a good time with others.

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You refuse to take aggro - on a mob, a boss, whatever - you are refusing to do your job that you signed up for, and you are actively griefing by doing so.

Get better, and grow up.

Also I don't get passive aggressive, I just bluntly tell people they're playing like garbage and either leave or gladly eat the vote kick. I run with Trusts because they're less of a headache than dealing with the literal children who play this game, but nice reach.

(also because it's funny watching them do the tightrope mechanic in Dohn Mheg)

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Also I don't get passive aggressive, I just bluntly tell people they're playing like garbage and either leave or gladly eat the vote kick.

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This honestly needs to happen more. Not aggressively. But some people don’t know they are bad unless told they are bad. But as soon as anyone speaks up 2 things happen.
1: they are called toxic, a buzz word that gets thrown around so loosely it has zero meaning
2: someone speaks up and says something along the lines of “they are doing fine”
No. No they are not doing fine. They are barely passable, and are often times getting carried.
I had to kick a BLM once in expert roulette because the only thing they were casting was thunder. On literally every pull, every mob. Tried explaining a rotation and got told I was toxic. Put up the vote kick and was told they were doing fine. Vote kick passed btw. But had enablers not been defending bad play for so long, maybe said blm would of had half an understanding of how to play their job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

You refuse to take aggro - on a mob, a boss, whatever - you are refusing to do your job that you signed up for, and you are actively griefing by doing so.

Get better, and grow up.

Also I don't get passive aggressive, I just bluntly tell people they're playing like garbage and either leave or gladly eat the vote kick. I run with Trusts because they're less of a headache than dealing with the literal children who play this game, but nice reach.

(also because it's funny watching them do the tightrope mechanic in Dohn Mheg)

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If you pull as a dps because the tank isn't going fast enough instead of maturely asking him to go faster you are actively griefing. Get better social skills and grow up. Learn to communicate in ways that achieve positive results instead of getting reported.