Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

Yet another we want a parser thread. Not going to happen.

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They already exist, actually, and SE knows they exist and doesn't aggressively punish people for using them (if they do so at all).

This thread is about how DPS can be terrible their entire existence, until they get to raiding where DPS checks exist and then suddenly and without warning are faced with how bad they are.

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Originally Posted by ThunderGodThor

I just want a parser for PS4. Even if it is just a self-parser, it would help me know if I was improving. I can't think of a single reason that the game shouldn't give you a score at the end of a duty at the very least so you can compare yourself to others of your class/job. Just a thought.

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At the end of the day, your individual performance is meaningless. From PUG guildheists and dungeons to static savage raids, it's about teamwork. Want to know how well you did? Well, did your group clear the content? If so, you're fine.

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Originally Posted by Delily

At the end of the day, your individual performance is meaningless. From PUG guildheists and dungeons to static savage raids, it's about teamwork. Want to know how well you did? Well, did your group clear the content? If so, you're fine.

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Clearing is an awful way to determine whether an individual player is performing well.

Well, I'm definitely confused by how they insist on nearly every encounter having an enrage, yet not letting us get any indication of performance without using third party software. I'm personally on the side of giving us an indication on how we performed in the given instance. Toxic players will be toxic players whether they do, or do not have a parser. Just look at a vast majority of mentors that do roulette..

I'd like to improve, as I'm pretty much sure there's room for improving *myself*, and frankly doing SSS isn't going to be any indication worth a damn.

I feel like at the very least they could include a results screen in SSS indicating your total DPS when you finish.

The fact that the only way to work it out right now is to use an external website (or a parser) is a little silly. The entire point of SSS is to check your personal performance after all.

DPS parse should only be in Static Raids only or a self-parse.
I don't want to be screamed at by someone because my DPS isn't on point
in minor dungeons. No one should screech at someone in Sastasha on their 1-2 click rotations lol.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

But here we have DPS that have no clear signs of when they are making mistakes in their play in their specific role (DPS) when simple dungeons are being failed, then fingers start being pointed at random people for that reason. One person who might be doing really great DPS will have the finger pointed at them because there's no way to check in-game to see who is causing the team to lose.

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And like I said, just run a parser. It doesn't need to be in game. If they don't believe you, or ask for proof, they are just making excuses and don't want to get better. You can totally bullshit and just say you watched how they played and noticed they weren't playing as well. And if they refuse to get better, just kick them or leave the dungeon. A person like that doesn't want to get better. They already think they are great and will just make excuses. parser being in-game will only make them deny things even harder and make even more excuses. It's not going to solve anything.

Please stop acting like there are these magical reasonable players that need to see actual parsing data nd go "Oh, maybe I was bad, I'll try and be a good DPS now." Because those people are already trying or already parsing.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Please stop acting like there are these magical reasonable players that need to see actual parsing data nd go "Oh, maybe I was bad, I'll try and be a good DPS now." Because those people are already trying or already parsing.

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I've run into some 20 of exactly those kinds of people. (Sadly that's about equal to how many I've seen say "how about I'll play how I like and you can deal with it" or have threatened to try to ban anyone who asked to shape up.) I've also seen people seek friends out to parse them on a dummy or over a dungeon run (surprisingly often, they're worried less about their fixed rotation than their number sense and general priorities, so to speak, which a longer run may bring more insight towards) because either they can't get theirs to work or are on PS3/4. There certainly are those players who at present are without parsers but can nonetheless make use of them. They're no huge crowd, but they're not mythical creatures.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Well, I'm definitely confused by how they insist on nearly every encounter having an enrage, yet not letting us get any indication of performance without using third party software.

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This.

It's 100% contradictory.

Imagine trying to play as a healer and not being able to see the HP of your party members, instead having to guess who is injured and who isn't.

That's basically DPS as a role right now...

As far as I recall the whole "parser" thing was "don't ask, don't tell" right? They aren't allowed though for sure.

Anyway, people are always going to judge you regardless of a parser or not. Sheesh, I mean I've had people judge me for what dps job I play... I had this blm that only spammed that ice aoe thing judge me as a "low dps" because he said bards suck... Like um, excuse me sir, Mr. Ice Mage... pls.,.. just no

Really you don't need a parser for expert roulette or even extreme primals or anything like that. So I don't know why people are asking for one. Sure some people are going to be bad... the same people not pulling their weight in dps are probably going to be bad at dodging mechanics too. Eventually they just leave your party in frustration because bashing their head into a wall didn't end with them getting their weapon and a free doggo... They will probably blame everyone else for their deaths and say they can't carry you anymore and then they leave. Then someone else joins and you clear it first try.... yay Gee, I wonder who was the weakest link? :P

But for savage content, well parsing isn't allowed. But I'm sure that even if people can't judge you for your dps openly, they will probably just silently judge you. There really is no getting around being judged if you are playing in a competitive environment...but yea in expert roulette you can go in with no armor and a lvl1 weapon and I probably won't kick you unless you did it so you could just die on purpose and you told me that from your own mouth. It's so easy we could still win with you unarmored. But yea that doesn't work in savage omega.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I've run into some 20 of exactly those kinds of people. (Sadly that's about equal to how many I've seen say "how about I'll play how I like and you can deal with it" or have threatened to try to ban anyone who asked to shape up.) I've also seen people seek friends out to parse them on a dummy or over a dungeon run (surprisingly often, they're worried less about their fixed rotation than their number sense and general priorities, so to speak, which a longer run may bring more insight towards) because either they can't get theirs to work or are on PS3/4. There certainly are those players who at present are without parsers but can nonetheless make use of them. They're no huge crowd, but they're not mythical creatures.

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You seem to misunderstand what I said. I'm guessing you missed my ealier posts. Basically, those kinds of people are already seeking help. They didn't need to have a parser shoved in their face with actual numbers to want to improve. Someone told them they weren't doing great, so they got better. They didn't need the game literally telling them their exact numbers to get better. What we have now was enough. We know it's enough because you've literally just said so. There didn't need to be an in-game parser for that to happen. Likewise, I'm not denying the other type of person either. The one that doesn't want to improve and tells you to stuff it. An in-game parser isn't going to make them suddenly want to get better. Even if people like that actually see the number in front of their face, they won't improve. So again....these magical reasonable players that need to see actual parsing data in game and go "Oh, maybe I was bad, I'll be a good DPS now" don't exist. And the ones people claim to exist are trying already, without parsers in-game.

The only thing the parser in-game allows for is shoving your number into the face of people that don't care for them, good or bad.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Basically, those kinds of people are already seeking help.

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Not always. I've many times had a friend inform someone who honestly thought that, say, Tornado Kicking at every possible occasion was good play, or didn't realize multi-DoTing was helpful for their Repertoire, and I've either been too engaged with healing, tanking, or otherwise making up for that lost DPS to notice. As soon as the friend has made any note of it, I've played enough of each to advise correction by typing between GCDs, but until then I wouldn't have figured to bother.

Or take someone who has a parser but is looking for advice. There it helps to see when their DPS isn't rising at expected rates (e.g. blowing Mage's too soon, not making use of multi-Flare, etc.). Those who know the class can estimate pretty clearly what is or is not being done by per-2s to per-3s rolling summaries, without having to watch their casts. That's one more useful tool, that also happens to be free (over sufficient samples) of misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

The only thing the parser in-game allows for is shoving your number into the face of people that don't care for them, good or bad.

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We're working under the assumption that the UI can't even be hidden? Otherwise, this is again not a change. For every person who'd be less afraid to reveal a number, there's another who no longer feels the need because everyone else has access to a parser.

Do I trust every player to be capable of following basic rules for interpretation (when you just screwed over the Monk's stacks, yes, his DPS will be lower relative to the duration of the fight; when you decide to chicken out of a whole pull after one of the DPS already popped CDs in preparation, yes, his DPS on the next will be reduced, and yes, gear makes a difference)? No. And I think there are plenty of opportunities to mitigate that, should SE put in a parser of its own. My personal preference as a performance index is a relative potency / second meter (preferably complete with battle log integration and sort and coverage analysis as you would find via FFlogs), because it nullifies internal DHit and Crit variance while taking all but a marginal contribution from secondary stats (unless thus adjusting the base) out of gear difference.

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Originally Posted by Cherie

As far as I recall the whole "parser" thing was "don't ask, don't tell" right? They aren't allowed though for sure.

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They're not technically allowed, because they fall into the 3rd party program category. Other than that, Squenix doesn't care as long as you don't go yelling about it and know how to behave. Yoshi also knows the merits of using one, but I think he believes that the community as a whole isn't ready for them. Something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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On the first point, a parser being in game wouldn't have changed anything. That person was willing to get better when advised. They didn't need a parser in game to do so. hey didn't need actual visible proof in game to see they needed to improve. Someone told them and they did. That's the point I'm getting at here. You keep bringing me examples of people getting better after they were told they could and I'm sitting here wondering why it keeps getting brought up as if you can't do that already?

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

2. I have better things to do than watch another DPS player in an attempt to ascertain whether they're doing a good job: I have my OWN rotations, AoEs, HP bars, adds, etc to watch for.

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Sometime it's real easy to catch. I've spotted lots of BLM using Ice II on bosses.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

They're not technically allowed, because they fall into the 3rd party program category. Other than that, Squenix doesn't care as long as you don't go yelling about it and know how to behave. Yoshi also knows the merits of using one, but I think he believes that the community as a whole isn't ready for them. Something along those lines.

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He's right about this; parsers are invaluable tools for statics, as it lets them understand their performance when they're pushing content. For PUGs and the general population, parsers are nothing but ePeen waving and a reason to put down other people.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

This.

It's 100% contradictory.

Imagine trying to play as a healer and not being able to see the HP of your party members, instead having to guess who is injured and who isn't.

That's basically DPS as a role right now...

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That's why we have tools like Sky and Sea and The Circles of Answering.

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Originally Posted by Delily

[...] For PUGs and the general population, parsers are nothing but ePeen waving and a reason to put down other people.

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I didn't know I was waving my ePeen around and putting down others when I run a parser in PUGs. That's something I didn't know I could do when I don't let others know I run one, I don't say anything about numbers or damage, and I don't talk to anyone beyond the initial "Hello" (unless I need to explain mechanics or say "NP", "TY", "YW", "My bad on that one").

I bet there is something like below that shows up on everyone else's screens when I have ACT up.

http://i.imgur.com/DoZP5eF.png

That's gotta be it!

Sorry to all of those who I have insulted when you partied with me and I had ACT up. What you may have thought to be a simple "Hello" was really me saying "Get ready to get a face full of my awesome ePeen because have mommy issues and I am going to take it out on you!"

I am not using the parser for any analysis or anything (that would be weird).

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Originally Posted by Delily

That's why we have tools like Sky and Sea and The Circles of Answering.

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Both of which don't give any reasonable statistic. Sure it tells me if my rotation in general is correct and sufficient, but beating on a dummy, and beating on savage, and primals, whilst juggling mechanics is something entirely different, even with the over-inflated DPS check for passing the dummies.


This topic gives me like a dozen conflicting thoughts :(

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Originally Posted by Delily

For PUGs and the general population, parsers are nothing but ePeen waving and a reason to put down other people.

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I think you might be surprised how many times you've DF with someone using a parser and you would never know they were using one.

You aren't allowed to say anything anyway so no one does; so how do people accomplish "putting down" other people? I mean yeah they can see if someone is severely underperforming, but vocalizing it by harassing someone for their numbers ain't worth getting banned over because you can report people for harassing others with parser data.

A lot of people simply use them to keep track of their own performance and to try to improve themselves.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

On the first point, a parser being in game wouldn't have changed anything. That person was willing to get better when advised. They didn't need a parser in game to do so. hey didn't need actual visible proof in game to see they needed to improve. Someone told them and they did. That's the point I'm getting at here. You keep bringing me examples of people getting better after they were told they could and I'm sitting here wondering why it keeps getting brought up as if you can't do that already?

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Because they were absolutely events triggered by a parser. Now, without one that could have simply occurred a few runs later, or the very next, but the fact the advice arrived when it did because there was far less effort required on the part of the improving-player-to-be's party members to notice that a problem was occurring. Their knowledge wasn't the issue; their attention and sense of urgency was, and each was supplied at a single glance by a parser.

I have never once said or even implied that self-improvement is impossible without a parser. I have said that it is a helpful tool, however large or small its margin in the hands of various players.

I guess to put it another way, I fail to see how the harm you suggest, if even existent, outweighs the boon, however small you might find it.

Maybe our experiences with "epeen waving" have just varied tremendously, as I've yet to see it occur even once. (I've seen friendly competition between DPS. I've enjoyed the same myself. But I have never seen anyone boasting about their numbers outside of their raid group following a particularly DPS-solid attempt or clear.) I have, on the other hand been threatened to be reported multiple times because I've said as a tank, "my bad, our DPS isn't high enough for a pull of that size; I'll trim back" when breaking in a quickly learning healer, or especially if one of the DPS made light of said healer when the matter was out of his or her hands; survival revolved around at least a couple mobs dying before I ran out of every single CD, and no amount of mana-burning heal spam can make up for that if the mobs are dropping at half their DF-average speed.

Now, perhaps that is biasing me; I'd honestly prefer that people grow a pair and not take an objective inference or rational compromise as personal vindication against them by a player who, I'm sorry to say, probably is not invested enough in them as a specific person to get any enjoyment out of insulting them, and I think plain information would help in that regard. If I can't make them understand anything outside of their tunnel vision, I'd like to at least be able to say, "Given the healer and I's gear and CDs, we'd have needed about xxxx output, in my experience spamming this dungeon with various groups, to get through that. If you don't feel comfortable making up that difference, I'm going to cut back so we don't die, especially now that my CDs are down," and they would have that number in front of them, everything out on the table so to speak. That sounds very much like a positive, helpful, and toxicity-reductive change to me, based on my experiences.

Half the time it feels like there's this ambiguous void, or wall of passive confrontation, by anyone who staunchly feels like they might have something to lose if anyone did know how they were doing just based on the damn stereotype. I've yet to see "parser discrimation" in the sense of people being weeded out based on their numbers without so much as a offer of support. I've seen reverse aplenty, where anyone who expects basic competency must somehow be elitist and parsing. And the funny thing is, you're not going to kill that boggie-man by actually finding a way to remove parsers completely. You only get rid of that my pulling those afraid of it out of their closets. Oh look, those are my performance indexes. Hmm. I'll do with that what I will. Not some terrifying, morally bankrupt, infringing, and masturbatory tool, but just... information.

So what exactly is the harm you're assuming here? Because I truly cannot see how it outweighs the benefits, whether in terms of convenience, fairness, or community impact.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

Sorry to all of those who I have insulted when you partied with me and I had ACT up.

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Originally Posted by Miste

You aren't allowed to say anything anyway so no one does; so how do people accomplish "putting down" other people?

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So, because people already run parsers but you can't mention them is why people aren't currently criticized? Have either of you 2 played WoW, where parsers are expected?

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Sure it tells me if my rotation in general is correct and sufficient, but beating on a dummy, and beating on savage, and primals, whilst juggling mechanics is something entirely different, even with the over-inflated DPS check for passing the dummies.

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That's where the challenge comes in, if you know your rotation is solid, then performing that with mechanics is important. The reason that your individual numbers aren't important is that there are 7 other people there presumably doing the same thing, as we're talking about a static pushing EX content. Your feedback is if you beat the encounter.

Everyone who says I should be watching the rotation of other people, what in the actual hell are y'all going on about? I have ENOUGH to look at on my screen that I should not have to learn every job in the game and ensure everyone's DoT is up for them. That's absurd!

Anyway, at this point I would settle with having a personal DPS meter for your damage only. At least then I don't need a 3rd party tool to see how effective my rotation is when I try different things in a fight. It may also encourage those with low DPS to find ways to improve their damage.

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Originally Posted by Delily

So, because people already run parsers but you can't mention them is why people aren't currently criticized? Have either of you 2 played WoW, where parsers are expected?

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Wait this is about criticism? Constructive and politely phrased criticism is not "putting down people" so I think you have something confused here.

There are many things about the gameplay in this game where you do not even need a parser to see that someone is doing something incorrectly. You can offer help to a player who is objectively playing improperly...unless you phrase it rudely then it is not harassment or "putting down people". It was simply someone guiding someone else to learn the best way to handle something. Similar to education in real life. You make mistakes and you get constructive criticism back from the professor in order to learn what you did wrong.

SE basically made the mentor system just for that. So more experienced players could help and guide newer players to learn the game.

If some people are unwilling to learn then there isn't much to be done, but it is not "putting someone down" to offer criticism in a nice way to try to help them out.

Also...yes I've played WoW and I've never been harassed because of a parser. Been harassed in that game for many other reasons because their community is so large that there are some really bad seeds, but not because of parsers.

You made two (badly generalized) statements.

1. Parsers in PUGs are only for epeen

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2. Parsers in PUGs are only for putting down others

My post corrected you about these generalized statements you made. My post wasn't about them adding an official parser or not. I personally don't care because I use PC and there is a parser I could use if I wanted to.

What you said was just generalizing everyone into your own little basket of "if you use a parser in a PUG then you are automatically a terrible person who just wants epeen and wants to make fun of others". That's pretty rude to throw everyone into that basket. Like I said some people use them to see their own performance and to try to improve themselves.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Their knowledge wasn't the issue; their attention and sense of urgency was, and each was supplied at a single glance by a parser.

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Triggers and parsers are 2 different things. The game has battle logs and visual/audio triggers. As for the emergency of it really depends on awareness of person.
Not all boss actions will be visual because that was the intended effect. Using triggers from a parser however IS cheating because it breaks the intended play and
not everyone wants their hands hold all the time.

If it's something really easily missed in the battle logs, there's no shame requesting an action to have visual/audio trigger. No different to an arrow stack/markers.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Like I said some people use them to see their own performance and to try to improve themselves.

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A parser is always used for comparing, never personal use. To compare means it's with another player.
Yes you can configure one to show only yours, what context does it bring to your goal if your success depends on the party?
Everytime my df pops I don't expect anyone to be as normally capable the same. Did you know this game was rated most
disabled-friendly game in 2013? If you could see one, they always try their hardest. So why can't normal person do that?

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Originally Posted by Delily

So, because people already run parsers but you can't mention them is why people aren't currently criticized? Have either of you 2 played WoW, where parsers are expected?

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Yes I have played WoW. I have gotten more negative reactions from other players for me playing a Dwarf rouge than any number from DPS meters.

As for the other part of your question, Miste, who is much more eloquent than I am in expressing their points, gave what I would have given you as an answer.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

A parser is always used for comparing, never personal use. To compare means it's with another player.
Yes you can configure one to show only yours, what context does it bring to your goal if your success depends on the party?

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You don't understand how you can use a parser to see and improve your own performance. It is not always used for comparing against others. You can compare it against yourself which is personal use.

For example: Say I go into a dungeon I do that dungeon's bosses and pay attention to my DPS. I remember things I am unsure about like "would using ability A be better in that situation than ability B" or maybe I should try using a slightly different rotation to see if I do better DPS.

So then the next time I go into the dungeon and do those same bosses I compare how much my DPS has gone up or down from the last time I was in there and then I can see if I am doing better or worse based on the things I tried to change about how I play. If my DPS went up then I know I made good progress and corrected my mistakes. There are some variables you need to look out for, but in general you'll likely come across some runs where there were little extra variables that would alter the data by very much.

You can also do this on a striking dummy to see in a basic situation with no mechanics and movement how much damage you can do and try to beat your own numbers to see if you can play better. If you analyze mathematically how the job is supposed to be played you can try to do that on a dummy and if you can replicate that damage even 60% with mechanics and movement in an actual fight then you know you are doing something right. Then it is just practice your rotation more and more and watch your numbers go up as you learn fights and learn what works for you.

If you notice this requires nothing except your own data. You do not need to compare to someone else in your group to improve your own DPS. In general unless the other DPS in your group is the same job as you this would be a bad thing to do anyway. Each job has different difficulty and some do more than others at certain levels and in general they are not all the same. Some jobs have lower DPS but more utility like BRD where SAM has no utility but has high DPS numbers. A BRD doing 100% will never do as much DPS as a SAM at 100%.

You can get used to how much damage a job should be doing by just analyzing tooltips to figure out if you are mathematically attempting to play the job correctly or even half correctly and go from there with analyzing how much DPS you do with one rotation and then trying a different one.

If someone REALLY wants to compare with someone else there is a lot of data online that you can look at to get a baseline from of what DPS you should be at least attempting to aim for. Since those people share their performance willingly then it isn't an issue and you don't even need to see what people in the same party as you in-game are doing to know if your DPS is good.

So no, "a parser is never used for personal use" is an incorrect statement.

TL;DR: This is how you use a parser without comparing against others.

You fight a striking dummy and do 3000 DPS.
You fight it again and you changed some things and you do 3500 DPS. (What you changed is obviously better)
You fight it again trying another rotation and you do 4000 DPS (Hey look you can objectively see you are getting better by comparing it with your previous parses)
So now you can do your best in actual fights to replicate the rotation that did the most DPS for you. Win.

As a DRK. I know dps is slow if I can activate Blood Price twice within a three-mob pull.

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Originally Posted by Delily

That's where the challenge comes in, if you know your rotation is solid, then performing that with mechanics is important. The reason that your individual numbers aren't important is that there are 7 other people there presumably doing the same thing, as we're talking about a static pushing EX content. Your feedback is if you beat the encounter.

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Imagine you're back in Highschool. The teacher gives the class a popquiz. If the class' average is below 60%, everyone gets a failing grade, if the average is above, everyone gets 100% (And some randomly lucky people get Extra Credit drops).

Do you see how absurd this line of thinking is? Individual data and accountability is crucial. It's much harder and unnecessary to make the guy pulling 99 percentile word's best DPS perform better. It's far easier and more logical to get the guy only pulling 50th percentile to improve. There's clearly more room to do so and it makes more sense.


I don't know much about cars, so I don't pretend to know about them.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

A parser is always used for comparing, never personal use. To compare means it's with another player.

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And that player can simply be:

A) The player who publishes lists of what DPS are parsing in savage raids.

or

B) Your former self who was doing more or less DPS and whom you need to pay the MOST attention to.

It's not uncommon for a player's DPS to actually go DOWN if they start focusing too much on mechanics and let their rotation slip. Parsers are just as good of a reminder to make you say, "Uh oh, I'm dropping something, here..."

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Originally Posted by Delily

He's right about this; parsers are invaluable tools for statics, as it lets them understand their performance when they're pushing content. For PUGs and the general population, parsers are nothing but ePeen waving and a reason to put down other people.

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Thing is, if someone is going to be a jerk to other players, they're not going to need parsers as an excuse to do that. They're going to be a jerk anyway. If the DPS is slow, I'm more likely to get blamed for it because I play a MCH, even if I'm a good 500 over the other DPS.

In the absence of real data, people go off of hearsay and bullcrap.

And I'd love to just have a PERSONAL parser so I can compare my numbers to those of similarly geared MCHs (which are posted on the internet) to determine if there's some extra damage I could be squeezing out of my rotation somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Don't forget the secret algorithm that lets bad players frequently walk away with raid drops/ the mount.

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I had one ninja who died 8 times and raised 8 times (i counted how many times he died) by multiple rdm's and healers and smns in Omega 4, and gets the piece for the shaft at 99. That pissed me off more than anything else lol. If I knew that I could die that many times and walk away with the item, I'd do it often deliberately >_>

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

If SE wanted players using parsers, they would have put one in. Instead they ban people who get caught using them.

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They know for a fact that every hardcore raiding static is using them and they're not getting banned.

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Also another thing to think about: you can't get to optimal DPS if you are failing mechanics. Knowing mechanics come first, then you can work on optimizing your rotations.

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Someone replied to you earlier: good DPS need to do both. You can dodge/pass every mechanic and still get hit with the enrage timer because you're not doing enough damage.

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Putting them in a gaol doesn't solve the problem. They should be permabanned. :/

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Clearly, you have much more of an issue with parsers than SE does...

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Instead of calling out one person, maybe actually get together as a group and get better?

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...How do you know who in the group isn't doing the minimum amount of damage to make the DPS check without a parser?

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Originally Posted by AphraelAmarantha

Lol, we'll see since I am going to enter Savage soon. If I catch anyone is using parsers, I'll report them in an instant. I'll leave this here in case you missed it the first time:

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"Datamining" is the act of decrypting game files to extract models, SFX, music, and other game assets, frequently used to discover hidden content in a new patch.

"Parsers" read the logfile that FFXIV exports as it runs, which is right there, clear as day for anyone who wants to read it.

What you've done here is the software terminology equivalent of calling "Gandalf" Dumbledore.

And good luck not getting dropped from that static like a sack of potatoes.

"Hey, thanks for inviting me. Just FYI, I'M GONNA REPORT ANYONE WHO'S USING A PARSER AND GET THEM BANNED!"

*kick*

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

Parsers are fine how they are now.

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Actually, I've heard they slow performance and increase latency, which is why it'd be nice for SE to have personal built in parsers because SE has said they HAVE DPS meters, they just don't make them available to players.

Oh yes, that's right: SE has and uses DPS meters to balance raid content, but the filthy plebe players aren't allowed to have them to know whether or not they're doing enough damage to CLEAR said raid content.

"FFXIV: Our raids have DPS checks, but we don't let you check your DPS!"

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Originally Posted by Delily

That's why we have tools like Sky and Sea and The Circles of Answering.

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Go do SSS as a MNK. It's an awful way to gauge your gameplay because your "big attack" is locked behind total RNG, and Brotherhood is useless since you're solo. Looking at a raid scenario, a raid group is going to have 3-4 other people who will benefit from Brotherhood (both tanks, second melee and/or BRD/MCH), but their abilities will in turn give you more chakra, to do more Forbidden Chakras. DRG suffers from this too because of Dragon Sight, although you could give that to a chocobo, it's skewing your numbers by killing the dummy faster

If I wanted to gauge my MNK gameplay, I'll do it in actual raid content, where I can benefit more from Brotherhood and actually use high tier food/potions (why waste expensive raid consumables on a dummy?), AND have to deal with mechanics

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Actually, I've heard they slow performance and increase latency, which is why it'd be nice for SE to have personal built in parsers because SE has said they HAVE DPS meters, they just don't make them available to players.

Oh yes, that's right: SE has and uses DPS meters to balance raid content, but the filthy plebe players aren't allowed to have them to know whether or not they're doing enough damage to CLEAR said raid content.

"FFXIV: Our raids have DPS checks, but we don't let you check your DPS!"

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Exhibit A:
https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...arrphase43.jpg

Sure it's just an alpha picture, but it doesn't change the fact that they use a debug version to test content, also iirc this is big man YoshiP himself showing off Primals

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Originally Posted by Miste

So no, "a parser is never used for personal use" is an incorrect statement.
TL;DR: This is how you use a parser without comparing against others.

You fight a striking dummy and do 3000 DPS.
You fight it again and you changed some things and you do 3500 DPS. (What you changed is obviously better)
You fight it again trying another rotation and you do 4000 DPS (Hey look you can objectively see you are getting better by comparing it with your previous parses)
So now you can do your best in actual fights to replicate the rotation that did the most DPS for you. Win.

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What you need is a striking dummy with a timer, SSS is exactly that. And before anyone says they don't want to,
who in their right minds don't have a rotation coming into fights? That's not the game's fault, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I think you might be surprised how many times you've DF with someone using a parser and you would never know they were using one.You aren't allowed to say anything anyway so no one does; so how do people accomplish "putting down" other people? I mean yeah they can see if someone is severely underperforming, but vocalizing it by harassing someone for their numbers ain't worth getting banned over because you can report people for harassing others with parser data.

A lot of people simply use them to keep track of their own performance and to try to improve themselves.

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There are people that are completely quiet, where others imply it big time they are using one and those that do that, do so in an insulting manner. Some even do post DPS numbers in chat without it being allowed. If people act like this with it not allowed, how you think people will act with it allowed? It is part of the reason I love to see war as a DPS class because a lot of people that play it play it as a DPS with fast queue with no interest of acting like a tank, become a MP sink, and brag how much DPS they do in implied ways.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

What you need is a striking dummy with a timer, SSS is exactly that. And before anyone says they don't want to,
who in their right minds don't have a rotation coming into fights? That's not the game's fault, that's on you.

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Did....did you even read what I said? This reply you wrote has nothing to do with what I explained to you.

You said 'a parser is never for personal use and that you always have to compare with other players'.

So I showed you how you can use a parser for personal use and that you don't need to compare yourself to others to use it to see if you are improving because you can compare it to yourself and past data to see increases.

That was my only point.

You made an incorrect statement. I corrected said statement. SSS had nothing to do with our exchange.

I don't see any point in continuing to discuss with you since I feel you ignored what I said anyway. So I am done with this.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

If people act like this with it not allowed, how you think people will act with it allowed?

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I already said I am neutral in this argument. I may post to explain objective things or to tell people not to make generalizations, but as for my own opinions I personally don't care if they add an official parser or not so there is kind of no point in trying to discuss that part of it with me.

The only thing I can say is human beings aren't fortune tellers. We can't say one way or the other if the game would turn out worse, better, or end up exactly the same as now with an official parser. We simply do not know unless they add one so doing guesswork or pretending we know how people will behave is pointless.

Before people say "...but WoW...".

Comparing this community to other MMO communities is also pointless because this community is not the same as other ones and vice versa so you cannot use another game to predict behavior in this one unless you did a very comprehensive study on the types of people playing both games, but no one has the resources or time to do such a study. The most we can do is "an educated guess" which is still nowhere near a conclusion based on fact.

I've personally never seen anyone harass anyone else in-game with a parser in my whole 4 years of my continued subscription to this game. I am a very active player and I do a lot of content and a lot of PF/DF. If it was such a frequent occurrence I feel like I definitely should have seen it at least once in 4 years. /shrug

All those people you mentioned if they harassed someone with parser then you report them and move on just as you would do with someone who harassed someone even without it being parser related. In my opinion those types of rude players would have been rude even without a parser anyway. A simple tool doesn't magically turn you into a rude person when you normally would not have been.

i call out bad dps when the time calls for it and i run a parser

I think it's funny that anyone would even believe op's sensationalist title. It's not like the game is known as a haven for bad players. I feel like this is the sort of thing people preach when they need to show how bad someone else is to feel good about themselves.

In before someone else says that preaching against it is for people who can only feel better about themselves when they can hide how bad they are. Some of us don't want in-game parsers because of the enormous amount of (often needless) drama they can cause from misuse. I quite enjoy going to instances knowing no one is going to start blabbing about numbers in content that isn't even ex or savage.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

Triggers and parsers are 2 different things.

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Are you quoting the wrong person here? My post had absolutely nothing to do with triggers, or anything else you've responded with. I said "triggered" as in caused, or made aware. Example sentence—A player was made aware of a flawed rotation through his parsers that he otherwise would not have had the attention to notice.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

A parser is always used for comparing, never personal use. To compare means it's with another player.

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Really? I absolutely could not compare my own performance last attempt to my performance this run, or the results of trying one opener vs. another, so long as they are both done by me? Hmm.

Hmmmmm.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

There are people that are completely quiet, where others imply it big time they are using one and those that do that, do so in an insulting manner. Some even do post DPS numbers in chat without it being allowed. If people act like this with it not allowed, how you think people will act with it allowed? It is part of the reason I love to see war as a DPS class because a lot of people that play it play it as a DPS with fast queue with no interest of acting like a tank, become a MP sink, and brag how much DPS they do in implied ways.

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Outside of the NFL, Madden comments fade over time or are outright avoided. When everyone has identical access to the same very obvious information, a posted number is met with about the same level of response as "this floor tile is brown."

And playing a tank "not like a tank" isn't a "parser" mentality. Beyond the point of what's optimal, which tends to favor DPS stance, it's simply an idiocy thing. Otherwise, it's just doing what actually better pays off.

In the case of a Warrior, especially, there is almost nothing you can do as a healer while they still have TP to make the tank stance worthwhile by comparison. You may see them dip into Defiance for Equilibrium or the 25% larger margin from a Benediction and they may hold onto it for one more GCD during Conv to catch your HoT, but they otherwise should be in Deliverance. Yes, that won't be how you interact with a Paladin, but why should it be? They're different. The Warrior is 7x Decimating because, as long as it is technically survivable and you can toss out one Aero III, he really should be 7x Decimating. Again, not a "parse" thing. That's the simple balance of potencies.