In her defense, this is really all she was complaining about. Whether it be quality or quantity. (Sorry not trying to provoke you, just putting that out there.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_BG
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12-06-2011, 03:37 PMWiiSam
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12-06-2011, 03:43 PMOrcishgrappler
I would be great if they have a good mix of open and instance content. Some people love fighting over claims for mobs. Others don't. It does not have to be one or the other.
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12-06-2011, 03:55 PMOMEGA_HACK
It seems like we have "I want a balance of the two" and "I was instanced only" From a viewers standpoint it seems like those that only want instanced content are the "bad guys" so to speak. Everyone just wants a balance, it keeps the game fresh...get burned out on Open World, jump into the nearest instance. Get tired of the hum-drum style of instance content, jump into an Open world dungeon.
Its not what is it that really matters here...its having the OPTIONS of play style available 24/7. -
12-06-2011, 08:59 PMVixDid you play 11? Im not doing this as a snide comment or anything, but rather to convey by example of personal experience as to why I disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
I remember how much I hated sky at times(and pretty much the bulk of 11's content) due to the fierce competition. But that was also the primary addiction as to why I spent so much time at it. Its a love hate thing. Sure it sux getting owned, but when you get that trigger/coffer your excited. And when you got your Haidate, you were on top of the world. I cant find anything ever that has meant such satisfaction in a game.
My point is, if anything they need more of it. That was the charm of 11 that everyone can remember. -
12-06-2011, 10:15 PMWiiSamI understand that feeling but that's too intense today. I didn't play XI for too long, at level 50 thf I was strong enough to kill some dragonfly NM in...Dunes? He dropped emperor's hairpin, and with treasure hunter 2 I thought let's give it a shot. I camped him roughly 8 hours a day for 2 weeks. Only managed to claim him like 3 times and no drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vix
Now some of you will say tough, but damn...I feel like I tried TOO hard and got shit. So I quit, not a rage quit, I went back to grinding but I gradually played less and less because everything was a grind. What kept me going was honestly exploration, XI is a BEAUTIFUL world. Other than that though, not my cup of tea. -
12-06-2011, 10:20 PMLuciferHoooo boy....Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
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12-06-2011, 10:23 PMTangoSo then stick to your instances and those of who want to compete for claims and camp NMs will do so. Nothing says you have to. If you were at all concerned with being the best player or geared out correctly I doubt you would have a problem with it. Yes, you have budged a little. But most of us on the open world camping NMs side have agreed that we need all sorts of content and you refuse to think letting us have content we enjoy is right. You know how dumb that sounds? You're basically excluding part of the player base. We want to camp NMs, we want fierce competition, get over yourself with this attitude of competitionis bad crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
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12-06-2011, 11:11 PMHoly_Dragoon
Open world provides a sense of... wait for it... a populated virtual world. Being able to run into people in the open world, choosing to help them, or not, I think is a HUGE aspect and positive of an MMORPG. I mean if everything were to be instanced, why not just make it a single player game with a multiplayer lobby a la Starcraft.
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12-06-2011, 11:16 PMLuciferBingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon
Either you sell me an MMORPG or you don't. I don't want to play Phantasy Star online. -
12-07-2011, 02:24 AMDreamerThat's not the case for everyone. Here's my original response to this thread that outlines why I personally like having some open world content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkrose
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12-07-2011, 02:38 AMWiiSamYeh but the open world content I am against, and the one you promote, is open world competitive dungeons. Ul'dah will STILL be a "lobby" for activities like that. You will still /shout in Ul'dah as the leader and /afk as a member until the pt is ready. You will also still /afk at the coordinates where the NM will spawn. You're still going through what you don't want, this "lobby" you speak of. Don't you agree? What is the difference between /afk at an aeth for an instance and /afk at a camp for an NM to spawn. :S Just because it is an open world dungeon or NM does not mean you're going to hit the open field in hopes of finding a group. rofl. If you do that you won't get anywhere man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon
Someone else also mentioned something about a slippery slope, jsut because I want instance, doesn't mean I want to teleport to it with your "lobby" stuff or like wow. -
12-07-2011, 05:33 AMYmir
This is my first post in the forum, Hurrah! I bought the game yesterday evening so I haven't had a lot of time with it yet. Let me be an example of how the developmental direction of XIV WILL be bringing in more players.
Sorry for the aside. So the point of my post is this:
I played FFXI for close to four years. Most recently I spent the last four years playing AoC.
Now, as far as open world v. instances, I think people get the wrong idea about them. AoC is a persistent world with monstrous amounts of open world content. NM's, HNM's etc. etc. Funcom handled it by just making their drops heavy on xp, gear drops were "rare" equipment usually (a step below epic equipment) and the NM or "boss" as they are called over there, respawned within a couple of minutes. Now, to get really excellent gear you had to raid or run 6man instances (dungeons). The six man instances were a zone just like any other zone you would load into, sometimes that means an actual dungeon, other times it means a dense forest or an ancient city carved into a mountain. Difference between the instances and regular zones was that unless you were already in an existing party you would pop solo. You absolutely CANNOT complete a 6 man or a raid by yourself, you HAD to work with other people because the difficulty and complexity to any given raid or 6man required specific timing and actions from every single person involved.
I have not run a single instance or raid that ventrilo was not used. Every raid and instance I have run in the game so far has been enjoyable with multiple bosses lot's of mobs, the possibility of an epic gear drop and complex puzzles. The reason they are so fun to me is that those instances force people to work together and communicate. More or less it forced the community to be just that- a community.
That being said, the inventory system and gear drops in XIV are more like they were in XI and while I liked camping HNM's in XI and going after coffer's and keys, I really think that specifically the issue people seem to be having with the open world bits (unless I've misread this thread) is specifically with gear drop, stealing and zerging.
The thing about these issues is that they all really revolve around the coffer system right? I mean let's put together a theoretical situation. You have an HNM and three LS come in to camp him and zerg happens. So they trash the mob and then the arguments and irritation ensue and everyone ends up pissed off. So what happens when that system is changed to be a simple item drop from the mob with a Need, Greed, Pass organization? Wouldn't that completely negate any argument revolving around open world v instance?
Also, If I am wrong on any of this, remember I am level 7 in only one class and Its been a very long time since I've played XI, so please have some grace. -
12-07-2011, 06:43 AMTheFatHousecatBro I don't know about you but some of us are in LSs that do regularly scheduled content runs SO...Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
Seriously, every single example/situation/argument you bring up to oppose open-world content has already been refuted by a post three pages ago. I'm too tired to even bother re-hashing what's already been said. -
12-07-2011, 06:47 AMTangoSo lazyQuote:
Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat
/10 -
12-07-2011, 06:49 AMTheFatHousecatStop browsing the forums at work you deadbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
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12-07-2011, 09:14 AMindiramakes you a noob buddy, must fail at life too since its not even 1% fair.Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by WiiSam View Post
It really sucks waiting on another party or stealing from another party the boss in U'Ghamaro Mines. There is nothing good or fair about open world.
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12-07-2011, 01:22 PMJynxAnd you want more instanced content? That pretty much goes hand in hand with not having anything to explore.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
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12-07-2011, 04:46 PMWiiSamThats my point...you have an LS...wtf you need open world for to "run" into people as everyone is arguing for. "oh please guys leave open world so i can skip through the fields and run into another fairy to help me kill a squirrel!" That's what they want, and you running scheduled runs with an LS doesn't give that, so why do you care if the content is instanced or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFatHousecat
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12-07-2011, 04:47 PMWiiSamExplain to me how you can't explore an instance? It'sa "new area" just like any you visit. That involves exploration. Don't be dense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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12-07-2011, 05:12 PMDarkroseYou know if you don't like someone ideas there is no reason to flame them or putting someone down with such negative attitude. It is against TOS of forum. Everyone have their own opinions on different thing. If you disagree with them, just voice your opinion, but don't go on calling people name and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by indira
I hate to bring Wow in this thread because I will get flame for it as well. But Wow is a good example of how Instances are a huge success in MMORPG! Wow content are heavily focus on Instances. You can even level just on Instances itself. It have every Instances you can raid, 5 man, 8 man, even 20 mans. Wow back then have the most subscription subscribers of all time. Every mmorpg after that start putting in Instances and follow their success. Most other MMORPG content have Open World content and it become a big problem for griefing, camping, and bots. Wow have so many Instances you could do that you will never run out content to do, and it was just great fun que up and running with friends. I know Wow now is outdated and lost it subscribers, but it still consider the most success MMORPG of today. FFXI and FFXIV does not even come close. Even now FFXIV have to put in Dungeon Instances. What does that tell you? Instances are more like by the community then Open World.
Well, that all I have to say. I hope whoever want the best gears drop in Open World only or want only Open World Raid will not come back here crying saying it unfair and they got own by other Guilds, Bot camping their area, and farmer take over the spot. -
12-07-2011, 05:22 PMTheFatHousecatI never said I would 'skip through fields and run into fairies,' I have absolutely no idea where you're getting that from. I assume you're referring to what a lot of people said about being able to see people in broad daylight killing/being killed by NMs outside, in areas you can run right through while on your way to do a leve or something. It makes the world much more colorful and interesting to see battles happening in real time like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
And as to what I quoted from you in that post, you STILL have to get a group together in the same manner to do instanced content. I don't see the difference between an instanced PUG and a open-world PUG except that it would probably be loads easier to get a group together for open-world content because you don't have a required member amount. Also, I'm fairly certain that the vast majority of people who play this game are members of an LS. And even if their LS is more social-oriented and doesn't do scheduled content, that still makes the creation of SB/EXP/NM groups easier because you have personal access to a group of people on a daily basis. SOME of them have to be willing to lend a hand, right?
Today one of my LS-mates experienced glitch inside of the Bowl of Embers in which he could explore the entire area. You know what he found? Two or three caves that had invisible walls inside, and he couldn't look down the cliff because there was an invisible wall there, too. OMG SO MUCH STUFF TO EXPLORE HOLY SH*T.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
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12-07-2011, 08:59 PMindirajust saying that your giving false info, you dont have any poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkrose
Even now FFXIV have to put in Dungeon Instances. What does that tell you? Instances are more like by the community then Open World.
most of the time the bots make life easier for you to claim after they die,RMT and all.Quote:
Well, that all I have to say. I hope whoever want the best gears drop in Open World only or want only Open World Raid will not come back here crying saying it unfair and they got own by other Guilds, Bot camping their area, and farmer take over the spot.
thats because there slow or not quick enough, they always blame connection and bots. like the people who cry about getting shot in a FPS game. the point is theres always going to be people who want you to give them everything for nothing, like crying about the monthly fee.
most the accounts in WOW are RMT anyawys.Quote:
But Wow is a good example of how Instances are a huge success in MMORPG!
sitting in queue in town is fun all day huh? no one in the big world doing anything fun huh? even FFXI had instances but you had limits on when you can do them either seals, or time limits. this game is a free for all.
no one talks in a instance they bitch and moan or act like gods of the game you have a time limit and rush threw chances are if your not a MRD,CON,LNC chances are low your going to even do a instance, it not fun being a class you dont like, 2.0 get the dungeon finder and everyone will have fun losing alot of them since the finder to toss you into one.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam View Post
Thats my point...you have an LS...wtf you need open world for to "run" into people as everyone is arguing for. "oh please guys leave open world so i can skip through the fields and run into another fairy to help me kill a squirrel!" That's what they want, and you running scheduled runs with an LS doesn't give that, so why do you care if the content is instanced or not?
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12-07-2011, 09:50 PMCoglinWe do not have to explain to you why we care. Your a nobody. I will pay my money to SE, not you. Yet you think your so big you can sit here and tell us we do not need open world.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
Your OP bashed open world and you clamed it is unneeded and unwanted, then you went on after the entire forums population stacked against your short sighted, narrow minded, simplton ideas, to claim you have changed you view slithly and were not totally against open world content.
If you think you can sit here and claim you know what we want, it is clear you sir are a lier of the highest caliber. -
12-07-2011, 10:08 PMDarkroseFinal Fantasy XI never have any Dungeon Instances. There are Instances, but they are mostly mission and from quest. FFXIV come out and there were no Instances. People want content, they add in Instances. You can't deny they took some aspect from wow and finally putting Dungeon Instances in their game. I don't need poll, it easy to see and it a fact.Quote:
just saying that your giving false info, you dont have any poll.
Wrong. FFXI have the biggest problem with Claiming Bot and Farmer Claim for the NM all the time. It is constantly being farm by the RMT. They have Claim bot so you are never quick enough. I have play FFXI for 4 years I know how hard it is to get an NM Claim.Quote:
most of the time the bots make life easier for you to claim after they die,RMT and all.
thats because there slow or not quick enough, they always blame connection and bots. like the people who cry about getting shot in a FPS game. the point is theres always going to be people who want you to give them everything for nothing, like crying about the monthly fee.
I'm talking way back in Wow Vanilla and BC Expansion. Those 12 mils all RMT? Even with 10 mil now, there plenty of player base not RMT. RMT is big problem in Wow because it is so popular. And nothing wrong with que up instances, every time it a different experiment with different people. And you gain level while doing Instances so you can do new one.Quote:
most the accounts in WOW are RMT anyawys.
sitting in queue in town is fun all day huh? no one in the big world doing anything fun huh? even FFXI had instances but you had limits on when you can do them either seals, or time limits. this game is a free for all.
I find the biggest problem with FFXI Instances are it poor design. It lack the challenge, the time and effort put in it. They just splat a swirly copy and paste map on there and put time limit in so people rush through it. Don't even know why they even put elite mob in there when people rush through it and make them disappeared. I find it was very rush and bad design. This is why people do not like the Instances in FFXIV. If Instances are done right in FFXIV it will be a huge success! Hope they don't continue it like this in 2.0.
As for que up for instances all the time, there always quest you can do. So you can go back and fourth between this.
But anyway I'm done with this thread since it just so pointless every people who don't like Instances will just find some excuse for it. I think the best way is to have both. But do not make Open World have the best drop in the game. It will become a big problem due to some problem I already stated above. Best drop should be instances only and the drop are rare and nu-tradeable. -
12-07-2011, 11:23 PMWiiSamTake it down a notch brother. Nobody has given good reasons. The same way FatHousesomething said earlier that she is tired of repeating the same things over and over, that is how I feel. I am repeating my points over and over because you guys aren't getting it. For example, above, fathouse gave an example about bowl of embers and how it was boring to explore. THAT DOES NOT PROVE THAT YOU CAN'T EXPLORE AN INSTANCE. It is just one stupid room man. It isn't a a fully designed dungeon. Every instanced dungeon in WoW was amazing for exploration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
See what I mean? I keep having to rebutt you guys because you keep bringing nonsense up. Bowl of Embers is not an exampe of why instances suck. Bowl of Embers just sucks because the game designers decided they just wanted to give us a boss and not an entire dungeon. Just like a roaming NM, what is there to explore? You are just visiting ONE SMALL AREA WHERE THE NM SPAWNS, to kill it. And PLEASE don't tell me "but we get to see shit running on our chocobo on our way to the roaming NM!" You get to see the same shit on your way to the entrance of an instance.
... -
12-07-2011, 11:26 PMLucifer
Not if you're warping to the instance from the hub city.
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12-07-2011, 11:29 PMWiiSamWhy we are assuming we are going to wrap to it? Mr. Slippery Slope? You know how many times I've had to tell people just because we want instances DOES NOT MEAN WE WANT TO TELEPORT TO IT. Either you haven't read the whole thread or you're just being a troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
Maybe a dev should close this thread, it started out civilized and now everyone is just being rude and frustrating (including myself, i admit). -
12-07-2011, 11:32 PMCoglinSo says the liar who changes his stance from post to post. You claim your blathering nonsense as "rebuttle". You Keep spouting garbage about how open world is bad and instance is good, then when the posters reply with a logic of there perspective, you call it a lack of logic and tell them how they are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
you are entitled to your opinion and I welcomed that right up to the point in which you insult everone elses opinion and splash every one of your post with childish profanity. -
12-07-2011, 11:35 PMWiiSamok this is last question and i'm done: you really think and agree that the bowl of embers is an example of why instances suck and that they can't have decent exploration? Just say yes or no. Either way im done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
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12-07-2011, 11:35 PMTango
All I see on the last 6 pages of this thread is that most people want both instanced and open world content; dungeons, NM, etc for both. Except wiisam, he just wants to sit in an instance all day with 7 other people. Woo MMO!
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12-07-2011, 11:37 PMCoglinKind of slow aren't ya? because thats how instances work to this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
Bolded is another diplay of your capability to lie through your teeth. You have used profanity in 3/4 of your post. to inclde the OP, which you edited out, just like you went back and edited out some of the BS in the OP that the entire community called you on, 3 days later.
You claim everyone elses perspective as bad for he game, put everyone down who supports open world concept, and you want to sit here and claim it was never rude or frustrating. -
12-07-2011, 11:39 PMFiosha_Maureiba
I see WiiSam, DarkRose, and Ymir's points. And from reading the posts, I've seen some opinions change as well.
edit: As this thread is coming to a close, the content of this post is being removed to prevent further discussion within this thread. Most of it was a recap of the thread.
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12-07-2011, 11:40 PMwish12ozHi Pot, quit calling kettle black and be constructive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
And this is right, both is good, but you need to not add open world content that will promote botting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
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12-07-2011, 11:43 PMCoglinI never once mention that instance in this entire thread. I bet your lieing about being done though, and continue to post your false propaganda further.Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiSam
I never once claimed to be against instances, I like Darkhold and the AoE roaming, flying eye, as well as the ifrit raid. Both of which had a level of difficulty, but if processed well by controlled players could be sailed through smoothly.
I never said instances suck in any way shape for form, again you lie in an attempt to put words into another posters mouth. -
12-07-2011, 11:49 PMTangoQuote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
This is not a good enough reason to exclude content that people want -
12-07-2011, 11:51 PMwish12ozWith SE's bad track record of enforcing rules in their games, it's more then enough of a reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
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12-08-2011, 12:00 AMCoglinWhat rules does SE have a history enforcing that is " enough of a reason " to exclude open world content?Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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12-08-2011, 12:00 AMLuciferThat's retarded. People bot in games with instances too.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
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12-08-2011, 12:04 AMCoglinThis is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer
Boting is against the user agreement. People should just report bots, and SE should take care of said bots.
2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay. -
12-08-2011, 12:11 AMwish12ozThis is true, but it has never happened in the 9 or 10 year history of FF11, why do you think they would suddenly start in FF14?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
Maybe you misunderstood, SE has a history of NOT enforcing their rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin