Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

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Originally Posted by BunYulia

yeah i also do that but sometimes i fear the other scenarios where a) they just don't know more mobs are ahead that you can aggro . b) they fear i can't heal enough. i'm sorry if i'm sounding silly but no one ever flamed for those rescues i'm really trying to understand i swear.

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But if you say you want to pull big everytime at the start of the dungeon then scanario b) will not happen and scenario a) is so incredibly rare with our current dungeon structure that it's also unlikely to happen that they don't see the next trash pull.

The thing that makes rescuing tanks into the next trash toxic is the fact that you take away control from a player who can decide for themselves if they want to pull more or not. It's /their/ role to take aggro, no one should be able to physically force that against their will. That's literally the only issue I have.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It not the assumption that everyone would do it. It's not knowing who can and can't be rescued at any given time. Even if the devs were to put in some kind of indicator, it is more work than is necessary. Again, if you don't want to be rescued, then learn and do the mechanics of the encounter.

As mentioned earlier, it is more of a communication skill than anything. During an encounter, your healer can't type out that they need you stand somewhere quickly enough, nor is it guaranteed the player will see it in the chat log.

Personally, I am waiting for the complimentary skill that also allows me to push a player a from me.

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They can literally just place some kind of debuff indicator next to the persons name in the party list. I don't think noticing that on the list you stare at for a good chunk of the run anyways will make Rescue "too much work" to be worth it.

I get that there's a handful of extremely specific situations where it could conceivably be useful, and in the other 99% of the game it's just the perfect away to annoy and yank people around if they're not playing exactly the way you want them to. So, let everyone else decide if you can Rescue them, and if/when they die to mechanics you could've saved them from it's on them.

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Originally Posted by BunYulia

Why would you leave? I don't really see rescue as a toxic spell, i'm trying to help you clear faster and if we fail it's on me, could you please explain why you find it... offensive? like when i use it i'm not thinking anything bad about the tank, since i've never played it i'd like to know what's the bad thing about being pulled near more mobs. like i'm legit trying to think about what could make it worse for the tank but unless the mobs spam a lot of aoes they have to dodge to make the pull possible i don't really see any other reason.

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I don't like it being done to me because I don't like how it feels like I'm being controlled/forced to be/think/play a certain way. I've said in another thread that it's ok to pull 30 mobs me into me lol, but DON'T pull me into 30 mobs. I don't single pull an entire dungeon, some pulls are just nasty and my body can't handle it even with CDs unless the healer wants to be a curebot. So I will keep certain mobs separate, like the bigger hard hitting mobs, bunch those up with baby mobs and I feel like wet torn tissue paper that was still too much to be flushed. 10 baby mobs? Yeah you bet I'm gonna go for it.

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Originally Posted by BunYulia

i'm really trying to understand i swear.

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I believe you. Your mindset will probably change once you begin tanking. I haven't healed yet(only unlocked the one I will level), maybe mine will too, who knows, but I certainly wont rescue tanks into more mobs.

Edit: Perhaps my style revolves around my body handling it and making sure the healer isn't being stressed out with healing me.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

I don't like it being done to me because I don't like how it feels like I'm being controlled/forced to be/think/play a certain way. I've said in another thread that it's ok to pull 30 mobs me into me lol, but DON'T pull me into 30 mobs. I don't single pull an entire dungeon, some pulls are just nasty and my body can't handle it even with CDs unless the healer wants to be a curebot. So I will keep certain mobs separate, like the bigger hard hitting mobs, bunch those up with baby mobs and I feel like wet torn tissue paper that was still too much to be flushed. 10 baby mobs? Yeah you bet I'm gonna go for it.

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ok i kinda see the point now thank you, i'll try to shut down this bad habit of mine.

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Originally Posted by BunYulia

[...] I don't really see rescue as a toxic spell, i'm trying to help you clear faster and if we fail it's on me, could you please explain why you find it... offensive? [...]

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Can I be honest...? The part of the sentence I have underlined is something a troll would say while playing the coy-card.
->The faster-argument is furhermore pretty common for impatient people, so you literally dug a hole with this phrase from my point of view. Avoid this phrase, no matter how well-meant it is.

If tanks don't do big pulls - whether or not you asked them for getting more monsters - do the only reasonable thing: Attacking mobs.
->Because useless overhealing (a ka if you happen to be one of these healers who refuse to hit stuff) won't help anybody at this point.

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i'm sorry if i'm sounding silly but no one ever flamed for those rescues i'm really trying to understand i swear.

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Uff, makes me glad our servers don't share a datacenter anymore, because I'd notice your intention and would therefore bite you for making me your yo-yo. I saw already too many troll-heals as if I could react relaxed to this issue.

Things put plainly: Rescue is meant to get people in time out of AOE (or into a stack). If you try to force your pace onto a tank without even talking to them, I count that as abusing the skill.

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Originally Posted by BunYulia

So umh, i've started playing a month ago, main healer at the moment and i always use rescue if i see the tank not pulling enough even if they are barely taking any damage. here are my reasons
1) i don't think it's toxic, we are a team, i'm telling you there are more mobs to grab if i'm doing it, trust me! (example: the great gubal library dungeon just before the final boss, some tanks don't pull under the stairs but they stop before, that's where i rescue...)
2) faster dungeon, let's use the team Aoe damage!
3) i've never played tank but getting enemy aggro doesn't seem really hard so i don't think it's a problem?

i always say i prefer big pulls at the start of dungeon, i don't really think it's up to the tank because it's all about how fast the dps can kill the adds while the healer keeps the tank up.

also rescue is such a cool skill to save people first timing boss mechanics in dungeons or raids

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Thing is, I don't trust you because I don't know you. If I'm not ahead pulling more, there's generally a reason for it - in pugs for example, I generally pull 2-3 packs depending on the dungeon and wait to pull more later on once I'm sure the healer can actually handle it. There have been plenty of dungeons where even that was too much, and even using cooldowns wasn't enough to keep me alive.

If you want bigger pulls, say something. If you wanna just yank me around the dungeon without taking the two seconds it takes to say "you can pull bigger," all that's gonna do is annoy me tbqh.

Granted I also haven't had any real issues with rescue. If I'm tanking, I'm generally queuing with people I know anyway, and it doesn't bother me as much because I know my friends know what they're doing. If I die we can laugh about it in voice chat :P pug healers, though? I don't know you, I don't know your skill level, and I don't know your intentions. Speak up. It's clearer and less likely to irritate people.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

That will never fly, and might as well delete the skill if they did this.

If players really don't want to be rescued, then what is really going to decrease the chance of it happening is doing the mechanics. If you go into a fight for the first time or are still learning it, don't be surprised if the healer pulls you into their bosom. Players need to understand that the majority of the time, the healer's intentions are good when they rescue you. They are not trying to spite you, or jackup your rotation. They want you to live and they are trying to take care of you.

Being rescued should be a small detriment to a seasoned DPS player who deals with breaks in their rotation all the time because this is what bosses do so the 95% or higher of the damage you cause to dummies isn't so easily transitioned into an actual fight.

Trust me folks, this skill isn't going anywhere, nor will players be given an option to negate it.

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Your misunderstanding. I want it to be a toggle because while I trust my healers in my static and even to a degree savage/extreme PF pugs to use the skill only as needed, duty finder healers tend to be trigger happy with it regardless of their intentions.

You may think you are helping me, but quite frankly I'm aware I'm standing in an AoE. I'm doing it to get uptime, I know it won't kill me, i've used my mitigation, I've got my own self heals I'm planning on using, and I know the next raid wide won't kill me because of it. By rescuing me, your causing me to lose dps, potentially royally mess up my rotation, and/ or waste my cooldowns.

The skill has its uses, but outside of higher level content, those uses become fewer and fewer. It does not hurt you for it to be a toggle, especially if they give it some sort of indicator in the party list.

I'm curious for those that think this sort of behavior is fine, would they object if tanks had a way to force certain behaviors on everyone else in the group?
What if they had a button that would cancel whatever else the healer was doing and make them cast an AoE heal?
What if they had a button that would cancel whatever single-target DPS rotation someone was doing and make them start doing an AoE attack instead?

It's ridiculous of course, but its that same kind of mindset of no-stop-what-you're doing-and-do what-I-want-you-to that makes Rescue pulling so obnoxious

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

Can I be honest...? The part of the sentence I have underlined is something a troll would say while playing the coy-card.
->The faster-argument is furhermore pretty common for impatient people, so you literally dug a hole with this phrase from my point of view. Avoid this phrase, no matter how well-meant it is.

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Now, taking the "Rescue is toxic used like this" (i understand now) argument aside, i think most people doing dungeon want a smooth,fast run and spending 30minutes doing a dungeon that can be cleared in half of that by putting in a bit more effort doesn't sound bad. (i had to google what "playing the coy-card" means because English is not my first language as you surely noticed! so sorry for any mistakes)

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

If tanks don't do big pulls - whether or not you asked them for getting more monsters - do the only reasonable thing: Attacking mobs.
->Because useless overhealing (a ka if you happen to be one of these healers who refuse to hit stuff) won't help anybody at this point.

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I am not that kind of healer i try to optimize my dps while keeping the team alive so do not worry about it, but i think it's obvious to say that DPS with good aoes will clear much faster with higher group of enemies with or without the dps i could add by having to heal less because of the smaller pulls.

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Originally Posted by MelodyCrystel

Things put plainly: Rescue is meant to get people in time out of AOE (or into a stack). If you try to force your pace onto a tank without even talking to them, I count that as abusing the skill.

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Ok that sounds bad , fair enough as i said i'll make an effort to stop using rescue like that.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Thing is, I don't trust you because I don't know you. If I'm not ahead pulling more,

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Yeah that's a fair point too...

Getting aggro is not difficult in the slightest, being pulled into mobs is no excuse to let a healer die. Finish the pull then hash it out after. Communication is key as many have said, if a healer pulls you into mobs after the pull bring it up. I mean I get the fear if the pull is successful then the group might ask what the big deal is and may lead to a disagreement which is understandable.

I think everyone should really level a tank, a healer and a dps - just to see how those three roles play and see things from a different perspective.

A good tank is watching what is going on and will often determine the rate of pulling based on what they see. Watching to see if the healer is keeping up well with heals, or if they are struggling. How quickly is the dps downing the mobs. The tank may or may not be familiar with the dungeon. Also, the tank may be very comfortable with their ability at crowd control, but they may not be comfortable either. (Also a good tank doesn't point mobs at the dps or healer and they also don't play spin the mob.)

A good healer is watching what is going on with the party. And (imo) will keep everyone's health up and on downtime do some dps when it's safe to do so. They'll let the tank know that they can handle big pulls if the tank is willing. They run a stray mob that is hitting them to the tank so the tank can more easily pick it up. They don't yoink the tank into more mobs.

A good dps will watch what is going on around them and with the party. They will down the mobs as fast as they can using aoe abilities on large pulls. If they are ranged and pull hate of some mob, they run to the tank so the tank can more easily pull it off. If the healer is getting pegged by a mob, then down that mob fast so it doesn't take out the healer. Don't run ahead and pull more mobs intentionally because you think the pace is too slow (say something in chat that we can take more).

Having played all three roles I have a better understanding of each and what they entail. I also know what annoys me as a tank, a healer and a dps and I try not to do those things to others because... they are annoying.

Letting the healer die certainly isn't the "bigger man; better person" way to handle it, but I also don't feel like it's necessarily out of bounds. The healer cast the first stone, threw down the gauntlet, etc. and I don't feel like anyone is ethically obligated to turn the other cheek in response.

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Originally Posted by BunYulia

Yeah that's a fair point too...

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Yeah and I mean, it's not a personal thing either haha

I've just done thousands of dungeons across a lot of different MMOs and my experiences have been uh... very, very mixed. Queueing up with a full group of strangers is a blindfolded grab bag and I tend to treat it like one.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

?? You couldn't have thought that was clever. It already exists. Its called "not hitting the raise button" lol.

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It was sarcasm. You can't, realistically, leave someone dead without penalizing the rest of the party. It's just not an option unless it seriously impeeds in your ability to keep said party alive (aka running oom). So yeah, I kinda thought it was.

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Originally Posted by Nanchi

Then we get back to our original predicament: Can enmity just toggle off for tanks when they get pulled into the next trash mobs against their will by some impatient healer?

Also for how much this forum loves to preach how 80% of the playerbase can't even play their classes correctly, it surely seems hypocritical to expect tanks to play "high level" we sadly can't have both worlds even tho I wish we have the later more often for all types of players.

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Tanks don't have to do anything. There's nothing high level here. Tanking 2 mobs or tanking 100 is exactly the same process for the tank. You do your aoe rotation, you do your mitigation rotation. That's it. The only difference is going to be the number of AoEs you need to step out of. It's the healer that needs to play higher level. Like I said earlier, the healer should dictate the pace. If they judge they can heal you with more mobs, you take more mobs. And to be clear, I'm not condoning pulling your tank into packs. The healer should just ask the tank to pull larger instead or bring mobs to them. But in the event it happens it's not something worth getting upset about. Certainly not enough to take the time to complain over it on the forums and ask for the skill to be removed.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Letting the healer die certainly isn't the "bigger man; better person" way to handle it, but I also don't feel like it's necessarily out of bounds. The healer cast the first stone, threw down the gauntlet, etc. and I don't feel like anyone is ethically obligated to turn the other cheek in response.

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> The healer was rude to me and pulled me ahead when I didn't want to pull more
> Better escalate by killing the healer, and likely cause a wipe and burden the DPS with our spat as well

Yeah, that'll show em.
Acting like a reasonable adult and simply talking it out after the mobs are dead is overrated when you can act like a petulant child.


Don't escalate, if the healer is being rude and pulling you into things outside your comfort zone just talk to them

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But in the event it happens it's not something worth getting upset about. Certainly not enough to take the time to complain over it on the forums and ask for the skill to be removed.

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I'm thinking a toggle would be more appropriate.

Even beyond the obvious tank trolling implications I just don't like the ability. Even when it's done with good intentions, being yanked away from what I'm trying to do annoys me. Never mind that most of the time Rescue is used incorrectly, even if I'm in an AoE it's because I've decided that maintaining my rotation is more important than moving. Hell, if I miscalculate, die and you decide not to res me that's completely fair imo; I'd have no objections. Someone yanking me across the field because they decided they're going to take control of my priorities is just grating, though.

Rescue rubs me the wrong way in general. LET ME turn it off.

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> The healer was rude to me and pulled me ahead when I didn't want to pull more
> Better escalate by killing the healer, and likely cause a wipe and burden the DPS with our spat as well

Yeah, that'll show em.
Acting like a reasonable adult and simply talking it out after the mobs are dead is overrated when you can act like a petulant child.


Don't escalate, if the healer is being rude and pulling you into things outside your comfort zone just talk to them

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If I don't think I can handle the pull without the healer I probably won't let him die. This is where I prefer my Paladin, though, because in a pinch I can replace the healer with Clemency.

Besides, I'm sure the healer would probably prefer a little taste of his own medicine to being reported. If Rescue pulling stops working out exactly how the healer wants it to then he may eventually stop doing it.

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

It's there because players DON'T move out of their own at times hence why it is a situational ability that is rather useful if used properly. I have several healers to thank for pulling me out of my own stupidity or when I don't understand mechanics. (Not sure what my "lacking" attitude has to do with any of this)

"Only times I've seen it is for troll purposes..." good lord. Many of you sure have pure bad luck if this is your constant in dungeons.

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Plus there are AoEs that cover most of the arena and players sometimes being unable to get to the safe spot due to being too slow or doding other AoEs (why yes, Eden's Pure Beams do stand out, why do you ask?:P)

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm thinking a toggle would be more appropriate.

If I don't think I can handle the pull without the healer I probably won't let him die. This is where I prefer my Paladin, though, because in a pinch I can replace the healer with Clemency.

Besides, I'm sure the healer would probably prefer a little taste of his own medicine to being reported. If Rescue pulling stops working out exactly how the healer wants it to then he may eventually stop doing it.

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Or he may end up reporting you. Fighting fire with fire will just end up making a bigger inferno. Instead of talking about the situation, you instead to go with the "entitled child" approach. You aren't creating any kind of solution to the problem; you're just escalating it.

This whole thread actually did remind me of the one time Rescue annoyed me. I was playing as BLM and it was during the first trash pull in Anamnesis Anyder on Bismarck’s back.

I never moved from where you first zone in because I can still cast from back there. I wasn’t taking any damage, didn’t have to worry about AoEs or anything. A BLM’s dream come true!

And the healer freaking rescued me to the rest of the group. That was annoying because like I said, I wasn’t taking any damage and was burning down all the mobs. In that case there was no reason for it. But that’s the only time I found it kind of trollish.

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

Or he may end up reporting you. Fighting fire with fire will just end up making a bigger inferno. Instead of talking about the situation, you instead to go with the "entitled child" approach. You aren't creating any kind of solution to the problem; you're just escalating it.

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I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying isn't necessarily what the "right" thing to do is.

For instance, say someone walks up to you and punches you in the face. Asking why he did that and attempting to talk it out is the mature way to handle it; I'm just saying I wouldn't fault you for punching him back, even if it makes the situation worse. He started a fight with you, and I'm not one of those people who believes retaliating makes you "just as bad as he is." Retaliating is a natural response to being provoked.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Besides, I'm sure the healer would probably prefer a little taste of his own medicine to being reported. If Rescue pulling stops working out exactly how the healer wants it to then he may eventually stop doing it.

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What about the other suggestions being given to you, like talking to the healer? Jesus, it's like you think in white and black. Are you trying to *not* act like an adult? You're getting yourself quickly blacklisted for acting so immature. I know for one, I'd feel bad for any healer that groups up with you because of this attitude you seem to have.

But then I'd assume you were probably like, 12 or something and just leave it be, and simply apologize to the healer on your behalf. :P

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Letting the healer die certainly isn't the "bigger man; better person" way to handle it, but I also don't feel like it's necessarily out of bounds. The healer cast the first stone, threw down the gauntlet, etc. and I don't feel like anyone is ethically obligated to turn the other cheek in response.

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it is an interaction within a video game personally I do not think anyone is ethically obligated to do anything. All boils down to a personal response. With that said tanks in this game need to come to terms with the fact that overall in dunegons a tanks role is not that complex and maintaining aggro is not a difficult task, even if one gets disoriented.

A tank has no excuse to not being able to maintain or establish aggro in this game. Our aggro generation is simply too massive. I mean if a player wants to play like shit that is fine, I have no issue with that, I just wish people were honest about it. This is an issue of control that is all, which is not bad, but it is petty. Someone stepped on your toes and you want to get back at them fair, but why seek a form of a validation from others? Just own up to being a prick. We all have our moments of petty vengeance. I often refuse to heal people that eat avoidable damage. Could I easily heal them and go on with my day? Yup, but I rather watch them die because I am a prick. You are a prick for letting a healer die, and the healer is a prick for pulling you into mobs.

We are all pricks in one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying isn't necessarily what the "right" thing to do is.

For instance, say someone walks up to you and punches you in the face. Asking why he did that and attempting to talk it out is the mature way to handle it; I'm just saying I wouldn't fault you for punching him back, even if it makes the situation worse. He started a fight with you, and I'm not one of those people who believes retaliating makes you "just as bad as he is." Retaliating is a natural response to being provoked.

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But pulling you wouldn't even be remotely like you getting punched. If someone punches you in the face punching them back isn't an escalation, it's retaliation.
A healer pulling you into a group and you letting them die *is* and escalation. It's neither difficult nor dangerous to pull another group with your CDs and their healing, you're not really in much increased danger.

So it would be more like they insulted you and you jumped straight to punching them rather than retaliating (I.E. insulting them back) or talking it out.

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

What about the other suggestions being given to you, like talking to the healer? Jesus, it's like you think in white and black. Are you trying to *not* act like an adult? You're getting yourself quickly blacklisted for acting so immature. I know for one, I'd feel bad for any healer that groups up with you because of this attitude you seem to have.

But then I'd assume you were probably like, 12 or something and just leave it be, and simply apologize to the healer on your behalf. :P

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If someone is inconsiderate then I'm willing to be inconsiderate back. If you believe this stance of mine would cause tension between us if we grouped together then by all means Blacklist me.

Honestly, having people I wouldn't want to group with removing themselves from my Party Pool has simply been an unexpected bonus. I encourage this trend to continue. ;) Maybe by the time this thread is over the Blacklisting function will have removed most of the Rescue pullers for me.

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Originally Posted by Shalan

But pulling you wouldn't even be remotely like you getting punched. If someone punches you in the face punching them back isn't an escalation, it's retaliation.
A healer pulling you into a group and you letting them die *is* and escalation. It's neither difficult nor dangerous to pull another group with your CDs and their healing, you're not really in much increased danger.

So it would be more like they insulted you and you jumped straight to punching them rather than retaliating (I.E. insulting them back) or talking it out.

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Erm, punching someone back is definitely an escalation and retaliation, same as letting the healer die would be. Both responses aren't necessarily mature and will probably make the situation worse, but people retaliate when provoked. It's the person who initially provoked who is the most at fault imo, though.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If someone is inconsiderate then I'm willing to be inconsiderate back. If you believe this stance of mine would cause tension between us if we grouped together then by all means Blacklist me.

Honestly, having people I wouldn't want to group with removing themselves from my Party Pool has simply been an unexpected bonus. I encourage this trend to continue. ;) Maybe by the time this thread is over the Blacklisting function will have removed most of the Rescue pullers for me.

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You do realize blacklisting doesn't prevent them from being matched with you via duty finder, right?

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

You do realize blacklisting doesn't prevent them from being matched with you via duty finder, right?

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Oh really, then what's the point?

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

You do realize blacklisting doesn't prevent them from being matched with you via duty finder, right?

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Underrated comment-- and sadly the only thing that really bothers me about the blacklist option.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Oh really, then what's the point?

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Blacklisting someone prevents you from seeing any of their chat messages (and vice versa), and prevents them from joining any party finder that you create (it does not prevent them from joining a PF if you are not the leader). Additionally, party finders made by that person are placed at the very bottom of the list and greyed out for you.


So pretty much the only way for them to communicate that they want you to pull more in a duty finder party is for them to rescue you.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Blacklisting someone prevents you from seeing any of their chat messages (and vice versa), and prevents them from joining any party finder that you create (it does not prevent them from joining a PF if you are not the leader). Additionally, party finders made by that person are placed at the very bottom of the list and greyed out for you.


So pretty much the only way for them to communicate that they want you to pull more in a duty finder party is for them to rescue you.

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Soooo... Basically Blacklisting is a meaningless threat that would have no real impact on me one way or another? Cool.

Also, sounds counterproductive if they want big pulls. ;)

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Soooo... Basically Blacklisting is a meaningless threat that would have no real impact on me one way or another? Cool.

Also, sounds counterproductive if they want big pulls. ;)

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Pretty much. I just use it to mute bigots and filter people who can't do mechanics or dps out of savage reclear parties. Its useless for anything else.

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Originally Posted by einschwartz

Let. Your. Tank. Know. You. Want. BIG. PULLS.

If typing is a bit too much in the middle of combat, make a chat macro and slap onto your hotbar.

I'll give you example:
"Tank, can we do big pulls?"

"Hey Tank, you can do big pulls with me. I'll keep you safe!"

"Tank, can you try pulling more? We have good DPS here and I can handle bigger pulls, don't worry."

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Heck, I'll even just run slightly ahead of the tank—not far enough to pull anything else—and hit 'Jump' a few times before running back to resume spamming Holy. (Or staying in place and spamming Gravity if on AST, because woo ranged AoE.) It usually conveys the "We can take more than this! Let's go!" as effectively as anything else. Sometimes more effectively, if the tank doesn't happen to be looking at the party chat.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I'd suggest every Healer should know how to play Tank and vice versa.
It will also help you understand the other's viewpoint.

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This. This this this ohmygod this.

I have historically hated tanking. I leveled DRK to 80 anyway (and found I sort of enjoyed it this time...?) because I wanted to do the job questline, and I found it definitely made me more aware of certain things while playing healer. I'm going to level the other tanks as well in my alt-job rotation, not just because I want the amaro (though I do want the amaro), but also because I think it'd be useful to be able to see things from PLD, WAR, and GNB viewpoints for tanking as well as DRK.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

See the problem is this. You're assuming people who get rescued don't know the mechanics, just because you use Rescue properly.
The problem is when people know the mechanics and they get rescued by someone who doesn't, or who just wants to troll. Actually, if you don't know the mechanics you can't even complain about a wrong rescue because you don't know it's wrong.
Why people who do mechanics right and are in no situation to need an appropriate Rescue have a toggle to stop trolls and ignorant sprouts?

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Is it not fair to also say you are assuming a healer who uses rescue is a troll? Why are you so cynical and incredulous towards the communities healers?

And you're right to ask about players needing a toggle. They don't. Several players keep mentioning all these healer trolls and noobs like it's some sort of epedimic. Where are they all at? I play content as DPS and tank as well and have yet to encounter all these troll healers. I have yet to be killed by rescue, but I've been killed twice to shirk. Why aren't we talking about that? And those are just the times it resulted in a ko. Many more times the healer ends up having to burn up all their CDs keeping me alive because noob tanks rather shirk me than keep their tank stance active when adds show up.

The agenda I get the impression that is being pushed doesn't have anything to do with mechanics or a rescue success rate. Healers could have a 100% success rate with this skill and the lot of you will still frown on it. They simply don't like healers having this kind of power over their movements and positioning. Even if I am wrong, at least I'm trying to understand where you guys are coming from. How many of you can say the same in regards to healers who enjoy and have incorporated this skill into their gameplay. Do you even care at all how they feel if this skill was deleted?

Enlighten me.

You can take my rescue when you pry it from my cold dead hands!

Seriously, rescue is not just for trolling, but when your trying to use it helpfully you have very little time to make the decision, which can lead to mistakes.

The trick is to work out who is going to stand in bad before the bad appears, and use it without waiting to see if they actually do try and get out of bad. If you take the time to work out if the party member is going to move on their own, then its going to go off too late.

So lets say your in copied factory. Your fighting the tower boss, and you see the guy that said they were new on the wrong half of the arena before marx smash goes down. You could type out a message for them to move their butt. You could assume they watched a video guide and will move on their own. Or you could just rescue them which takes less time then typing and doesnt leave their life to chance.

Or maybe your running Baelsar's wall. The tank isnt new, but has been sloppy the first two times the boss did his jump. Why wouldnt you rescue him on the third go?

Or maybe your running xelphatol, and the 2nd boss is charging his knockback. The bard doesn't have a wall behind him... Or maybe your running whorleater extreme. The party has wiped twice already because your co-heeler takes a dive after every leviathan splash...

Point is. If you pay attention you can work out who will need the rescue before they actually do. If you can do that, then rescue is a grate tool and should be used. If on the other hand you try and use rescue after the AoE marker has already gone up and you don't immediately target the right person, then your rescue is more likely then not to be too late, so it will seem like a trash skill. But honestly it isn't. Its awsome, just use it right.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I have yet to be killed by rescue, but I've been killed twice to shirk. Why aren't we talking about that? And those are just the times it resulted in a ko. Many more times the healer ends up having to burn up all their CDs keeping me alive because noob tanks rather shirk me than keep their tank stance active when adds show up.

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To be fair, while I've also seen Shirk abuse/trolling more often than Rescue abuse/trolling... unless you're looking in the combat log after the fact or happen to see the ability go off, it's very easy for people to miss Shirk trolling and just assume they accidentally somehow ripped aggro off of the tank. It is very, very hard to mistake a Rescue for anything else.

Maybe this was the intended use all along, to get tanks used to pulling more.

The few times I've tried to use rescue I've just accidentally ennoyed people. "Oh no that black mage is going to get knocked off the boss arena because he won't leave his leylines. No wait he was fine he had surecast up.' And situations like that. So I just don't use it anymore when I heal. Unless I'm queuing with a friend and just messing them or something.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

The few times I've tried to use rescue I've just accidentally ennoyed people. "Oh no that black mage is going to get knocked off the boss arena because he won't leave his leylines. No wait he was fine he had surecast up.' And situations like that. So I just don't use it anymore when I heal. Unless I'm queuing with a friend and just messing them or something.

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In a recent copied factory run, against the third boss I noticed a BLM was in the path of Max Smash and I was about to rescue her. I stopped when I noticed her ley lines were strategically placed so she could side step the AoE no matter which arm was coming without leaving the ley lines telegraph.

Had I used it, no doubt this would have annoyed the BLM who already had the mechanic handled. However, I could also see how an unaware healer would have pulled the trigger on rescue. Especially if they don't know anything about how that job plays. I have a feeling that these type of situations are happening far more than some troll healer out there misusing rescue just to ruin everyone's day. The healer means well, while the BLM would likely be one of the ones here expressing how they are trolled by healers.

I wouldnt let it stop you from using it. There will be times where you will unquestionably know that you could have rescued a player had you not hesitated with your finger on the trigger. It is one of the last things we have left that keeps healing engaging and thought provoking.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying isn't necessarily what the "right" thing to do is.

For instance, say someone walks up to you and punches you in the face. Asking why he did that and attempting to talk it out is the mature way to handle it; I'm just saying I wouldn't fault you for punching him back, even if it makes the situation worse. He started a fight with you, and I'm not one of those people who believes retaliating makes you "just as bad as he is." Retaliating is a natural response to being provoked.

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What a pathetic and awful analogy.

Your lack of self awareness in every post you make is astounding. Are you actually a child because that would explain a lot.

What you don't understand is that you doing piddly pulls is wasting the time of 3 other people, you are the one being inconsiderate, not the healer. Personally I wouldn't rescue you, I'd just kick you.

Rescuing someone into mobs is not a reportable offence. Although deliberately letting someone die definitely is. It's also very childish.

None of this should be an issue anyway, because dungeons are the most casual content in the game, all designed to do double pulls with everyone wearing min ilvl, so if you were playing properly, there wouldn't be any rescue issues.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

What a pathetic and awful analogy.

Your lack of self awareness in every post you make is astounding. Are you actually a child because that would explain a lot.

What you don't understand is that you doing piddly pulls is wasting the time of 3 other people, you are the one being inconsiderate, not the healer. Personally I wouldn't rescue you, I'd just kick you.

Rescuing someone into mobs is not a reportable offence. Although deliberately letting someone die definitely is. It's also very childish.

None of this should be an issue anyway, because dungeons are the most casual content in the game, all designed to do double pulls with everyone wearing min ilvl, so if you were playing properly, there wouldn't be any rescue issues.

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Using Rescue to force the tank to pull at the pace you want isn't it's intended use, and is every bit as exploitative as choosing not to save someone that ran ahead of you and pulled a bunch of crap.

If I was pulling slow and you vote kicked me i would actually have no problem with that. Sometimes people's play-styles just don't mesh, and to vote kick the majority has to sign off. Deciding you don't want to play with me, and deciding you want to force me to play a specific way by exploiting a poorly designed skill, are 2 different things.

I'm really not sure why you people are so dead set against simply asking for big pulls at the beginning of the run, though.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm really not sure why you people are so dead set against simply asking for big pulls at the beginning of the run, though.

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Because ever since reaching level 50, big pulls have been the rule, and small pulls have been the exception.