Oh I didn't say I agree with it. If anything the Diadem issue has brought Savage raiders and those who do not raid, but work long enough for an anima together on an issue for once. Even raiders do animas because of min-max stats that Alex weapons don't always give us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
It's more satisfaction to have the stats you want so it's always been an appealing route. Speed runners do the same thing because every stat counts. Like right now with this i280 junk, the i275 Alex DRK sword is the 5th best weapon because of it's crummy Parry/SkS sub-stats.
Putting the highest ilvl up to RNG jackpot over months of progression raiding or constant time in the game is the dumbest thing to ever occur in this game.
I280 weapons were a mistake
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03-11-2017, 07:01 AMtechnole
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03-11-2017, 07:39 AMJijifli1) Although not glorified, there are characters that are sexist, or hard stereotypes for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
2) We have quests for capturing and killing Chocobo's, including a fate. So that counts.
3) SE stated rewards for 1.0 players won't go out to others. They didn't say they won't release high ilvl gear.
4) Maybe if they did I'd stop seeing people with level 50 gear in my expert roulette. So I'll take it.
I saw your point. People leave over anything. People quit when Diadem was first released because it had 210 gear in content where 210 was cap. Of course people are going to complain over an item that is higher by 5 ilvl's, with <1% chance to drop, in content that nobody would do otherwise. We're just back to 3.0 again where people had a problem with their relic's not still being instant BiS at 135.
Currently on Umbrite step actually. I took a break on the 210 step because I didn't find it enjoyable. However, so far for getting my 210, 230, and going to 240, I don't have to go out of my way for anything. 210 I use resources I get from my roulettes (tomes and seals,) 230 I used tomes, and 240 I'm using tomes and seals. I don't have to go out of my way for the resources, so I can say at least some of the steps are literally just the waiting game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
You chose to spam ARF until your eyes bled. Of course doing stuff makes it faster, but you never have to go out of your way for Umbrite or Oil as examples. If you're upset over your 9 days late equip being put into the game, you can leave. It's not going to make a difference though on where you stand. You aren't suffering to get into the current content, right? -
03-11-2017, 07:43 AMXerek
I'm getting tired of repeating myself, so you get a lazy copy/paste...
"See prior response. If I wanted a very good weapon, I would have gone with Triad/Kinna/Script weapons. The only reason I put the work into the anima was because it was supposed to be the best at the end, until SB. And then, just nine days after completion, it's not. I do not have a BiS weapon up until SB, I have a very good one. See the second sentence regarding very good." -
03-11-2017, 07:46 AMAquaslashIt doesn't even do that. People are unsubbing in protest. It's like Gordias except nobody remotely asked for itQuote:
Originally Posted by Zigabar
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03-11-2017, 07:48 AMJijifliOkay, let me help then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
If they made it 275, you'd all still complain because it's on par. If it was any lower, you all wouldn't do the content because there's be the point in it.
Know how I have proof of this? Look at Diadem's first release and the forums about that. People cried even harder about 210 gear because it made raiders waste time, since they could have just done Diadem. So even at 275 weapons these posts wouldn't change. I actually even bet these thread's would still exist if it was 270. -
03-11-2017, 07:56 AMtechnole
The problem is Diadem 2.0: Revenge of the Dinos content isn't even that good, even with the carrot of an RNG weapon.
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03-11-2017, 07:57 AMLunafreyaI haven't touched it yet and don't plan to.Quote:
Originally Posted by technole
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03-11-2017, 07:58 AMXerekDon't speak for me. I built my anima to be BiS. So long as it still is, I would not be upset. i275, i270...I wouldn't be upset because I still met my goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
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03-11-2017, 08:02 AMJijifliIf your goal is to have the best weapon for your job, which at this point doesn't even matter much for savage content, then go do Diadem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
Like honest question. If 5 ilvl's is the difference between you clearing A12S or not, then are we sure it's not a "the static is trash" situation? -
03-11-2017, 08:10 AMAquaslashIf it was 275 there would at the very least be precedent for it. They pulled the same stunt in diadem the first time, but then admitted that the Gordian weapons should have been 215 and stated that the 210 relic was the hell it was to make it equal to the effort of beating Gordias.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
This new fiasco shows that not only did they not learn a damn thing from last time, but they went back on their own philosophies. The most damning thing of it all is that Creator Savage is still on loot lockout, and there's at least one more patch left in the expansion
If they did this on the first of June, or even the middle of may, nobody would care. We'd just be coasting to the expansion then. However now, when we don't even have our casual murdering Steps of Faith expansion gate boss is just way too soon -
03-11-2017, 08:13 AMXerekYou don't understand someone working to get the best weapon in the game. And you don't respect the feelings of players trying for it. I can't explain it any way other then I did and I'm not going to copy/paste yet again. There was one reason only that I bothered with the anima, and SE killed it after just nine days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
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03-11-2017, 08:17 AMJijifliThey pulled the same stunt with 210 equips during 210 content? Which, like I said, was complained about just as hard, if not harder, than these 280 weapons? Despite being on par item level with upgrade tome gear? That's why I say even at 270 these threads would exist, because that's on par with upgraded tome gear, which was the complaint about 210 equips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaslash
Also, people would complain about it if it came in june, because we're still be in Heavensward. People wouldn't complain about if they did it after Stormblood, because people would go, "What's a Diadem?" on mention of it. I can tell you after we got 230 gear there were people that forgot Diadem was a thing, even after complaining over 210 gear like it was the death of XIV.
You bothered with it because you thought it was going to be BiS, despite how in 3 months it would just be glamour. Again, if you are upset, honestly crying at the keyboard over it, you can leave. Your sub, not mine, I can't make you stay. However, you're missing a specific thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the entire game is going to leave you out of content for not having this Diadem weapon. Unless it has a cool appearance tied with it, everyone is going to forget about it in 3 months tops. Meanwhile, for 5 less, you got a questline to watch a weapon you nurtured grow, from a small little 170 weapon looking exactly like eso gear, to a unique, beautiful, glowing model that shows your determination with the achievements and bragging points to back it up. This is also coupled with the fact that because you did your anima, the Stormblood version will allow you to obtain an advantage that anyone who didn't bother to do won't obtain, and you'll be able to use this item still for some time afterwords. In fact, I bet come Stormblood, you'll replace both of these items on the exact same quest, showing how little of a difference it makes at the end of the day.
Honestly I'm surprised you didn't quit when they nerfed all the steps you completed, considering that wasted your time too since anyone that waited didn't have to do ARF 1000 times like you did. -
03-11-2017, 08:34 AMAquaslashI'm in the same boat as this guy. I had the personal goal of having multiple jobs being BiS before the expansion hit, and at least in the case of Dragoon, took a gamble on the relic vs the raid weapon. Might have won the last one seeing as the creator spear is hot garbage. But my DrG BiS lasted all of two days (needed two ultima drops) before being invalidated by an update that pretty much says my goal will never happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
However, while I can ultimately get over my personal losses, I'm more upset by the principle of it all. What's the point in working to cultivate skill or expending time and effort into anything if they're just gonna hand out freebies while the content is still active? Most of all, what will be the point of doing the Relic in Stormblood? It's not even good glamour because the Zetas overall are MUCH better looking. Areadbahr Lux ain't got shit on Longinus Zeta, Ragnarok is still the best looking axe in the game, and Excalibur just very well may be the best looking sword in the history of ever (though Aetir is a very fine attempt), and then there's Ninja...'nuff said there -
03-11-2017, 08:38 AMXerekNope, I knew it would be nerfed, I could have waited. And the nerfs made it easier for people to get the same weapon as me. My goal, and I'll say it yet again, was to have a BiS from final step until SB. I don't care if things were/are made easier for others. What I care about is that they decided to make the anima I worked on no longer BiS because the new Diadem is so awful they have to lure people in with an uber-god weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
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03-11-2017, 08:39 AMMicahZerrshia
I don't even understand what the point is to get i280 weapons, I mean if it drops great, if not its no big. Its not like we are getting anymore bigger and better content that it will be useful on anymore at this point. They are just going to be glamour or traded for gc seals in a couple months.
If SE gave me a reason to get this in a utility sense it would be great and I would grind one out but I really don't see the point of putting a i280 weapon into diadem instead of a i275 one unless they were so unsure of their own design they felt they needed to put the highest ilvl stuff in there rather then making equal to top raid gear for it to be another avenue to gear. That and just to spit on relic holders like they did at the end of ARR. "The relics will always be relevant! ...as glamour teehee"
This would have been great about 6 months ago when it was actually useful to be able to gear multiple jobs cause you were going to actually use them for stuff. Now it just looks like they don't feel they released content good enough to do without the highest of rewards possible. -
03-11-2017, 08:46 AMJijifliBut is the 280 weapon not makings things easier for others? They don't have to grind out a questline, therefor in your eyes, it's easier (And honestly is, I'll admit.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
Although I would love to see where Anima's were stated as Best in Slot by Square, since I don't recall them saying that (Which meant nothing was broken.) -
03-11-2017, 08:55 AMAquaslashThis is what this decision tells me. Cause we all know, at the end of the day they could have just made the diadem fun. I guarantee if it was enjoyable content, people would do it with NO reward. But Nope, gotta have FATE grinding for the 98st timeQuote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia
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03-11-2017, 09:02 AMJijifliSo if we removed all gear potential you can get from expert, you'd still do expert?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaslash
And your previous roulettes? Like Main Scenario?
Because if so, then you don't need your anima weapon or savage weapon. Because it was about the fun content, right? Otherwise you wouldn't have done it. -
03-11-2017, 09:08 AMMicahZerrshiaNo, what he is saying is they had to make the rewards better than anything out there currently because they know the system is so flawed that it would only get attention from the playerbase in a large enough number the justify redoing it by putting top ranked gear in it instead of making the gear the same ilvl with random stats so they diadem is another avenue to gear alt (sometimes main) jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
They use FATES as a crutch. They are the most highly complained about content in the game and they just cannot stop forcing them down our collective throats. -
03-11-2017, 09:14 AMJijifliHe said people would do Diadem even if there was nothing in it, if it was fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia
So I'm asking if he finds other content he does fun, and would do it if there was absolutely no reward out of it. Since if he, for example, found the questline for anima fun, then he shouldn't be worried about the reward because it's the experience that counts. -
03-11-2017, 09:19 AMXerekLet me just quote myself...again...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
"What I care about is that they decided to make the anima I worked on no longer BiS because the new Diadem is so awful they have to lure people in with an uber-god weapon."
And relic was BiS from the time it was finished until Heavensward. The anima would have followed suit until they realized the Diadem was terrible and needed a big enough carrot to draw people to the cesspool. -
03-11-2017, 09:27 AMJijifliSo if you based it off of your thought on it needing to be BiS, then you can't blame SE on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
Also, you were meant to get these 280 weapons on the exact same day as the 275 step. So if there weren't issues getting Diadem in, the relic would have never been BiS to begin with for you. -
03-11-2017, 09:34 AMXerekHow can I not blame SE? They gave no indication the anima would differ from the relic, and no warning. SE has to be thanking god for the delay right now. If the i280s hit the same day the last anima step dropped the outcry would have been ten times worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
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03-11-2017, 09:38 AMJijifliSo you thought they'd be the same as the Relic, which we tore apart in 3.0 for a couple of crystals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerek
Because I surely remember the 3.0 cluster on relics being worthless since anima became a thing. Or did you not care about the years you put into the relic getting replaced by a level 55 item anyone could obtain? -
03-11-2017, 09:47 AMThirdChild_ZKIAlright, first off, anyone who completed a relic knew that you'd be trading them to skip a step in the new relic. And simple logic means you were going to replace a level 50 weapon as you progress to 60. Same thing's going to happen on the way to 70. Trying to discredit what he's saying with weak rebuttals like that, largely to maintain your hardline approach to this hardly seems effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
Fact is, SE pulled a fast one and plenty of people see that. Maybe some are fine with it, and that's to be expected, honestly. But many players are not, and for largely legitimate reasons. While I personally don't feel it necessary to unsub because of it, if doing so will give SE the rude awakening they need to not repeat this, I say go for it. (As a side note: If you're okay with what's happened now, then you're effectively accepting that it could happen again, perhaps in a way that DOES impact or upset you. Let there be no complaint if/when it does happen.) -
03-11-2017, 09:54 AMJijifliMinus a very loud and upset crowd on announcement on Anima, thinking you'd be upgrading the Zeta, not trading it in for crystals. I don't think completing the relic put a popup up about trading it in next expac.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
Also, I saw plenty of complaining in the level 55-56 range with people upset their relic's were being beaten by leveling gear. So once again, people expect one thing, and get another. -
03-11-2017, 10:05 AMXerekI have said time and again my expectations were that the anima was, upon completion, to be BiS until Stormblood. So bringing up relics being replaced in Heavensward is pointless. Animas were the new relic and it is reasonable to expect them to be handled just like relics were unless told otherwise. Relics were BiS from completion until HW. Not BiS for nine days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
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03-11-2017, 10:23 AMThirdChild_ZKIMileage may vary, but I tend to pay very close attention to what said by the man himself. Though I didn't complete a Zeta relic (I actually don't like relics, despite having one this time around), I was aware that completing a Zeta relic would in some way give players an advantage in beginning the next. I was also well aware they would NOT be the same item. This was also said. Anyone who thought otherwise perhaps wasn't paying attention when this was said. Unfortunate, but hardly a counter argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
As for the leveling bit? Come on, let's be realistic. If your level 40 gear was still good at level 50, why bother getting 50 gear? In an all new expansion, if anything new couldn't compare to the old or surpass it, why even add it? Let no one be mistaken: Your level 60 gear will only take you so far in Stormblood before you'll HAVE to replace it. Relic, raid gear, tome gear, no matter what, you're going to be replacing it.
That does not however mean it simply doesn't matter now. Stormblood isn't here yet. If it's worth doing, it's still worth doing. The only difference is the 280 weapon defies the formula that's been in place this entire expansion, simply to bait people into trying a hardly-improved content. -
03-11-2017, 12:43 PMMisteThat is the point though...you concede a lot of people are upset by this, but you don't agree their reasons are valid. If you wanna have that opinion then fine, but seeing as quite a lot ARE upset doesn't that warrant that MAYBE this wasn't the best idea? Generally the more people you annoy the less likely the action taken was a good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
You can't really compare Diadem v1 to Diadem v2. They were different situations. One gave same item level gear as raid/upgraded sets (i210), the other gives i280 weapon (which is the most important piece for all jobs) and it is 5-10 item levels higher than what raid/relic/upgraded weapons give.
As for your idea about insecurity not all of us dislike i280 because of that. I can dislike something without being insecure about it (like I dislike the /playdead emote ended up in cash shop, but am I insecure without it? No, and I don't feel unhappy with what I do have access to by paying my monthly sub just because I don't have /playdead).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Basically you are trying to attach an emotion/feeling onto others that you think they are feeling due to their reaction, but in the end that is just how you personally think they feel. Unless you sit down and talk to all of them you don't really know exactly how they feel about it as feelings are very convoluted and hard to express sometimes. Through text? You aren't going to get the emotion conveyed properly or at all.
I don't know if you can just outright claim this with no factual statistics. I know some casual players who are upset since they just completed relic and it got bumped out of best weapon in 9 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
In general I think you are missing the fact that the statistics of course would be skewed because anyone who is below level 60 (and somewhere below avg item level 250) wouldn't have any experience with the item levels people are discussing at the moment (i275 relic, i275 savage, i270 shire weapon, and i280 diadem). So this issue mostly pertains to end-game, raiders, and relic owners. If that is what the issue pertains to then those are the ones who are voicing opinions.
It's kind of like if someone made a topic saying "Savage Raids are too punishing" - most of the opinions in there will be from savage raiders...because that is what the issue pertains to. So in the end what type of player the person is who is complaining depends on the issue therefore isn't really relevant or a reason to claim they have no significant reasons to complain.
If you want to argue against there being an issue then argue to refute the specific points being made by people. Bringing what type of player they are into the argument does nothing except make you look biased.
Whether someone is casual, or a raider etc isn't relevant to the complaints since players of both types have weapons they could get. Relic for non-raiders, and savage weapons for raiders.
Well you might be unable to understand since you aren't in the same position unless you've completed a 3.0 relic or raided 3.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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03-11-2017, 10:56 PMCeasaria
So I want to sum up :
Players (from what I remember) :
“For each patch, it’s always the same previsible thing with no surprise. I can tell you next patch, it will be two dungeons, one trial, one raid 24 man, mounts…It’s always the same cycle”
“Heavensward is just a copy of Realm Reborn. Square Enix need to take risk.”
“The endgame gear content (and midcore content) is lacking, we have only raid gear, script gear and relic (and trial and PotD)”
“There is nothing to do !”
SE (They never say that, but they could think really this way) :
“Hi fellow adventurers, we wanted to take risk this time with this new Diadem by breaking the usual cycle of gear content but also by giving you the opportunity to get new gears. If you didn't play the last Diadem, consider this as a new mean to obtain very good gears. Take out your relic and raid weapon, and face the boss in those dangerous lands, and more especially those in the emergency mission. This is the last major content you get until Stormblood. I hope you will enjoy this, because it’s a preview of what awaits you with Eureka.”
All the Diadem haters replies…
I know the Diadem is not the best thing in this game.
Run Fates again and again is not fun.
All loots is about RNG (some may like, other not).
But we have missions to guide us.
Extremely rare weapons could be obtained in an epic fight beside dozen of players.
Many good ideas came from players who cares about Diadem to improve it.
Caves should be used for a different activity (mini dungeon maybe ?)
Proto Ultima should be here
Reduce the amount of fates and put more original quests.
Add more different emergency missions ?
Etc.
So guys, what do you want ?
If you don’t like it, and don’t try to see why SE did that, what could be improved, etc., if you don’t encourage risk taking, SE will continue to serve what they did for almost 4 years with some adding here and there.
You don’t like the fact there is a ilvl weapon 280 ? Please, suggest something useful instead to cry (nice try with the topic about horizontal progression). Ah yeah, play the new Diadem before to talk (yep, I saw that on french forum, anti-diadem guys talk but never did Diadem lol).
People want to see changes and see risks, but when it come, they whine because it’s not what they have expected, because they are took away from their comfort zone, because they thought everything is inked in the marbre.
It’s a certainty some people are not ready that Square Enix takes risks.
Maybe SE could talk more often on forum (like they did with PVP), especially personals messages from Yoshida, and try to know if players are ready for this kind of content, this kind of direction, and explained why they want to do this (or why they did it).
To conclude, I want to say, if people are upset, it’s because, there is a misunderstanding somehow, in the design choice, in the promise SE did to a part of the community (those who do raids, those who do relics). When something major change without explanations, it bring us to what we are now living. I hope Yoshida could answer to all fans at PAX East later. -
03-12-2017, 05:42 AMbirdy_reeneYep, Im convinced of this too XD *waves her goon spear with only parry on it around*Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcwen
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03-14-2017, 01:34 AMcaponesavageSo much this!!! I am still grinding my relic quests out. The new 280 weapon hasnt deterred me from doing so. Just because a new shiny object was put in the game doesnt mean anything you have done in the past is invalid. I get the fact that this is now considered BiS and some will feel the need to always have the BiS gear but in truth the addition of this weapon stops no one from completing any of the current content at all. And if in some odd case there are DF/PF parties out there who state you need the 280 weapon to do content with them then I feel sorry for the community as a whole because this mindset is inaneQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth