PVP changes from livestream.

I actually wanted to request second focus target bar to keep track of both dps in the feast, but now that they'll have no damage buffs anymore it's not needed because dps burst wil not exist.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

I actually wanted to request second focus target bar to keep track of both dps in the feast, but now that they'll have no damage buffs anymore it's not needed because dps burst wil not exist.

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What. What. No more dps burst? Oh my god.... This is going to be dreadful.
Is pvp just going to be about who can melee lb first? (If they even keep lbs)
Since healers can't even wear a vit acc to protect them anymore.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

What. What. No more dps burst? Oh my god.... This is going to be dreadful.
Is pvp just going to be about who can melee lb first? (If they even keep lbs)
Since healers can't even wear a vit acc to protect them anymore.

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These reactions from the changes is so LUL-worthy XD. Good PVP games don't require you to have 30 abilities to PVP, League of Legends is based on Defense of the Ancients mod for Warcraft 3 and you have 4 abilities, look at the PVP and fanbase for LOL.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

These reactions from the changes is so LUL-worthy XD. Good PVP games don't require you to have 30 abilities to PVP, League of Legends is based on Defense of the Ancients mod for Warcraft 3 and you have 4 abilities, look at the PVP and fanbase for LOL.

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It's funny you say the reactions are LUL-worthy when you haven't even passed the UNRANKED stage of the ranking system in any season you've taken part in. In fact, you've played so few matches, your best achievement is literally "Win 5 matches as healer". Looks like you did the Frontline grind just for the Garo event too.

Just goes to show, the people that support the changes for this to be dumbed down so much... have the least experience in decent PvP matches.

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Originally Posted by Mefa

As I said. Having too less skills in PvP is just bad. Makes PvP boring af. Mortal Kombat II from 90's has more strategy and options than PvP with that low amount of skills.

I know this PvP is kinda casual compared to many other hardcore PvP games like Helbreath.

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...But then again people on PVP right now use one rotation... Of 3 skills (pvE) and pops the other 3/4 PvP available skills (that's 7/8 skills used so far) let's not go on to frontlines cause is a one-rotation-button-mashing specially on a 72 game mode madness.

This PvP is about sleep healer -> BASH the hell out the offensive DPS - rinse and repeat (feast related) on a platform of few walls...

I understand that you are trying to portrait yourself as a "master" or a "veteran" on PvP but both of your posts lack actual facts and experience.

So if you want something competitive go and play DOTA or LEAGUE. cause at the moment you've been playing a causal PvP all around, not a competitive mode as you believed

I'm sure this game mode will be fun in it's own way. I'm open to it, but I am disappointed that with all the new abilities introduced, I may not be able to try any of them in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

These reactions from the changes is so LUL-worthy XD. Good PVP games don't require you to have 30 abilities to PVP, League of Legends is based on Defense of the Ancients mod for Warcraft 3 and you have 4 abilities, look at the PVP and fanbase for LOL.

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League has a lot more depth to it than just that. There's 5 heroes all trying to coordinate theirs together, they have text chat to help that, there's lanes, jungle, towers, creeps, several buffs, ganking, ward placement, etc. It's depth comes from map control more than anything. In Feast we have coins, stacks, lb, and boxes and no way to effectively communicate. In fact yoshi p told us to coordinate pvp abilities, but there's no chat to do so. So if I recognize someone who likes to burst melee or whatever right off the bat, i cant tell my melee, hey watch out for that try and take attune or something.

MMO PvP is its own very unique beast. With expansions come new abilities and new ways to play your class. This may keep things stagnate is my main concern. The way we play in PvE may change but PvP may become stale with only new jobs to shake it up. As well quick chat is nice as an additional method for quick communication without need for macros, but is VERY far from being an effective way to coordinate and communicate with your team and will hinder the ability to play around with your team comp versus theirs like you can in games like League of Legends or World of Warcraft.

My biggest concern is we won't see big changes to abilities or rotations or anything much. I wish they would've gone more in-depth. I'm okay with going back to basics and seeing what works and what doesn't, and building off of there, slowly introducing more abilities, or more options overall to customize the job more than it seems you will be able to. Again it looks fun but it's not what I or many expected, we will have to play it to see how it feels, but from an outsider look, it feels very basic. Will the jobs be unique enough with so few options to feel like they bring much or even matter? Will the tp cost on special abilities be a fun resource management? Will the game mode feel a lot more enjoyable to play? Anyways point was we can't know how it will work out, but comparing it to LoL is apples to oranges. League is not only about the heroes but the map itself. World of Warcraft is about what your kit offers to counter and play against the enemy's kit. Will our kits be enough to matter is my main concern.

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Originally Posted by itsoni

It's funny you say the reactions are LUL-worthy when you haven't even passed the UNRANKED stage of the ranking system in any season you've taken part in. In fact, you've played so few matches, your best achievement is literally "Win 5 matches as healer". Looks like you did the Frontline grind just for the Garo event too.

Just goes to show, the people that support the changes for this to be dumbed down so much... have the least experience in decent PvP matches.

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It's funny you say that WHEN I CAN'T GET ANY GAMES WHEN I'VE BEEN ONLINE! FFS I really despise people like you.

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Originally Posted by Sherufanir

League has a lot more depth to it than just that. There's 5 heroes all trying to coordinate theirs together, they have text chat to help that, there's lanes, jungle, towers, creeps, several buffs, ganking, ward placement, etc.

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Not to mention quite different hero roles and functions - There were times in league where "burst" strategies weren't even viable. Then times where they were meta. They also got skillshots of all kinds, so the ability usage is a lot different.

If we were to merge MOBA gameplay with MMO gameplay, we'd end up getting something like SMITE.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

It's funny you say that WHEN I CAN'T GET ANY GAMES WHEN I'VE BEEN ONLINE! FFS I really despise people like you.

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You haven't found a tiny number of 50 matches in the 1 year Feast has been active? Even when the start of seasons are insta-pops? When there are players with 5k+ games? Whatever you say.

All you're doing is feeding developer confidence in this system that you actually have 0 clue about. Your reaction to my comment is the only thing LUL-worthy here. You're actively ruining the feedback process by inputting your opinion on something you don't know anything about. MMO PvP vs MOBA's are two entirely different things.

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Originally Posted by itsoni

You haven't found a tiny number of 50 matches in the 1 year Feast has been active? Even when the start of seasons are insta-pops? When there are players with 5k+ games? Whatever you say.

All you're doing is feeding developer confidence in this system that you actually have 0 clue about. Your reaction to my comment is the only thing LUL-worthy here. You're actively ruining the feedback process by inputting your opinion on something you don't know anything about. MMO PvP vs MOBA's are two entirely different things.

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You cant really blame him tho, he isnt online now where the Feast is active during this hours. Maybe this will helps explain his frustration.
But yea MoBA and MMO is totally different things.

You really compare MMORPG PvP and MOBA? Same you would compare FFXIV and The Sims.. "You can decorate in both.." MOBAs are based on huge amount of different characters and the skills with passives makes them interesting. There you buy items during battle to make yourself different. There are 200 champions to choose from. To make this MOBA, imagine lvl 1 champions w/o items and flash. Game would die in 4 months. P.S. Long time D1/Master player


I like when you guys talk about the skills, but there is more use for them now than just "1x combo +3/4 others." As PLD I use every skill and cross-class skills but Provoke. Yes - even the Flash for 3-20 times per match. I started this game roughly 2 months ago and I use my main jobs' all skills in PvP (WAR, PLD, DRK, MNK). How bad player can be if can't use own main class that has been played for a year example? XD

I come back two days ago and tried first time that feast mode and it is not active at all. With healer i manged get some games in the prime time, but even that take sometimes over 30min. In the morning you have no hope get que at all. Not all players have multiple jobs leveled and most of them want to play with their main class even in pvp. We need changes for this make pvp more active. We have nothing to lose at this point. Even if you like current pvp 90% time in queue can not bring any good gameplay exprience. Every game mode have been active first weeks, but then it die very soon. That tell players try the game modes at first, but it is not good enough stay there. Only reason why players play pvp in this game is some like of mounts, but not actual pvp what I heard. We need the game mode where players can actually enjoy pvp and stay there for reason pvp is fun and not forcegrind aesthetic mounts.

Separating pvp and pve skills is imo good start making pvp balance better. 9 buttons is probably overkill, but can not judge before you can actually test how it works and there is always chance we get more skills in the future.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I come back two days ago and tried first time that feast mode and it is not active at all. With healer i manged get some games in the prime time, but even that take sometimes over 30min. In the morning you have no hope get que at all. Not all players have multiple jobs leveled and most of them want to play with their main class even in pvp. We need changes for this make pvp more active. We have nothing to lose at this point. Even if you like current pvp 90% time in queue can not bring any good gameplay exprience.

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it does pop from afternoon to latenight, also depends on your current tier.

they havent say anything about the matchmakings?like new changes or sumthing btw?

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

Yea, but I doubt they will put time into balancing and fixing the issues with this new system. They never did in the past.

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of course they didn't. PVP was such in a poor state that you'd be insane as a game developper to screw up PVE by trying to balance PVP.


Now, both system are totally separated. People should stop being salty, they finally splitted PVP and PVE skill, which means that they'll finally be able to adress any pvp balance issue without fearing affecting the PVE.
Your melee are too squishy? give them more hp. Ninja have trouble finishing off a target? Well boost a few skills, SMN DoT and run dominate the meta, well nurf the dots.
They could never do that with the old system.

I don't even understand how people cannot be happy about these changes.
PVP is a totally different beast than PVE, you cannot realistically hope to have both be balanced with the same Tools.
PVP is supposed to be unpredictable and reactive. PVP is not about doing a pve rotation with 6 buffs 3 debuff and 3 differnet combo trees.
Just take the freaking BLM, how can you hope to make that enjoyable in PVP? (I'm actually curious because Yoshida said BLM had one of the biggest change, without surprised)

Did people actually take look at the dragoon various jump cooldown and the offensive one TP cost?
They're short, they're not 90sec. The dmg jump had a 5sec CD with 500TP cost, which totally change the way you use the skill.
How is concentrating your combo into two skills a bad thing, spamming 12341234 isn't harder, it's just more annoying and take more space.
I however do agree that the absence of CC, stuns etc is a bit worisome. We'll have to see how it plays out. But still, if the game will need the introduction of some CC, it's not like it'll be hard for them to add another skill. They also pointed that some job had 10 which means they don't even have UI restrictions (like, only 9 skills would fit for instance)
You basically make it more accessible to new player and let's face it, PVP is in dire need of new players.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

What. What. No more dps burst? .

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You'll have pvp burst but not as a "activate all your +20% dps buff" form, more as an active form.
We've only seen the dragoon but his dps jump and spear lance were the two only skill with a TP cost, (500 for jump, 100 for spear).
The jump had a 5sec CD (or close from it). Which means that if you properly time some out of GCD skills, like Geirskogul (my guess is that the red form will do even more dmg), + jump with your dps combo finisher you'll probably be able to remove a good chunk of someone's health.
And since these won't have 30-60sec CD, it won't be a hit or miss scenario. If the target survive, according to the time it took him to reach that red Geriskogul, you'll quickly be able to do the same burst without needing 4-5 90sec buff

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

EDIT: or is the potency the actual damage? o_O

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From what I've seen from the video, these are indeed the "average" damage. +- some %.
Pretty neat imo, you can easily calculate how much dmg you can dish out

In choosing the traits/abilities, there's going to be a best build no matter what. I don't know why developers try to give the illusion of choice.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

PVP was such in a poor state that you'd be insane as a game developper to screw up PVE by trying to balance PVP.


Now, both system are totally separated. People should stop being salty, they finally splitted PVP and PVE skill, which means that they'll finally be able to adress any pvp balance issue without fearing affecting the PVE.
Your melee are too squishy? give them more hp. Ninja have trouble finishing off a target? Well boost a few skills, SMN DoT and run dominate the meta, well nurf the dots.

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But didn't they balance some skills to work differently in PvP anyway, completely unaffecting PvE? Such as Noctournal Sect shields being a lot weaker, SMN Deathflare being nerfed, CC effects lasting for a different amount of time, some additional effects not ocurring in PvP (such as Miasma not applying Heavy). It's funny you mention that "SMN dot and ruin the meta, they can nerf the dot", because didn't all the dots get nerfed too? Wait didn't they buff Ninjas as well? Am I misreading the post? Excuse me if I am.




I'm not disagreeing that the complete separation is good, I'm just confused about the point there. Besides I think people are not concerned about the separation, and more concerned about the low number of skills being available.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

I'm not disagreeing that the complete separation is good, I'm just confused about the point there. Besides I think people are not concerned about the separation, and more concerned about the low number of skills being available.

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It's a lot more feasible to balance 15-20 abilities per class rather than 35-40.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

snipe

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I actually forgot they did those fix so good point.

Btw, if you looked at the other post with the description of all the dragoon skill (I'm sure you did), we can see that they reworked many skill to be totally different, like one doing up to 400% dmg the less hp the target has. This is another thing that could bring some more depth beyond the 9 skills.

I realise that people are concerned about the number of skills, but having many skills does not equal complexity.
They condensed 8 skills into 2.You're not doing more with 8 skills spread accross 8 different keybind. Some for some Blood of dragon which turns into Geriskogul which then turns into.. "red geriskogul".

I mean, if we split everything, the Dragoon for instance has 6 active, 8 combo skills, 1 buff turning into two 2skills and 2 choosable. That's 19 skills.
What do you honestly miss? Your 10 60-90sec CD dps buff that you'll stack over each other? Your two aoe skills? Your DoT? That 15% dmg buff you have to keep?
These are the things that will ruins pvp?
Having totally unique pvp mechanic is turns out to be useless, boring and uninteresting if you loose that 10% dmg increase for 15% every 90sec?

I don't say that "worrying about having only 9 skills" is stupid, but saying that "having only 9 skill will destroy the pvp, GG SE" is stupid. The point the other person made with moba was just to point that fewer skills doesn't mean less complexity. GW2 for instance doesn't have that many skills usuble at one time and still has a lot of depth.

No one has tried the new pvp system, we don't know how it will play out.
I honestly doubt these change will hurt the state of the game. Retailoring every job action to fit pvp is unlikely to worsen a pvp game using pve mechanic.

Oh and, it seems they reduced the gcd. I wasn't sure when I saw the video but someone actually timed it. it seems to be 2.3 Baseline. reduced to 2.18 on the dragoon.

I heard from several pvpers they actually like wolves den better then feast but lvl 50 pvp has less abilities but more enjoyable then lvl 60? Or should SE bump the next pvp mode to lvl 70 and give us 5-7 more abilities on top of what we already have? And then in 5.0 we can have even more abilities on top of the bloated abilities we currently have and in 6.0 even more abilities and everyone can enjoy pvping with 70-80 abilities. Becausethat sounds like fun.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

I heard from several pvpers they actually like wolves den better then feast but lvl 50 pvp has less abilities but more enjoyable then lvl 60? Or should SE bump the next pvp mode to lvl 70 and give us 5-7 more abilities on top of what we already have? And then in 5.0 we can have even more abilities on top of the bloated abilities we currently have and in 6.0 even more abilities and everyone can enjoy pvping with 70-80 abilities. Becausethat sounds like fun.

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I think you're missing the point. They're scaling all of PvP equally, so in theory all current and future PvP modes will have players capped the same. There will be no more level 50 cap, 60 cap, etc. issues because we are all synced equally with the same abilities whenever we are in any sort of PvP.

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Originally Posted by itsoni

Looking at the DRG example they used in the live letter, I can tell you 100% it's impossible for it to even come close to solo-ing a half decent healer now..

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And how do you know?
Have you seen the healer tool kit and potency? You sound like all the WHM screaming they can just delete their job even though we have no clue what the WHM can do.
If you compare the 4.0 dragoon to 3.0 healer, yes you,re surely right.
But since 4.0 dragoon has almost all his skill potency reworked with some of them having new effects, like Piercing talon doing up to 4x damage against low hp target.
How can you be 100% sure that healer didn't receive some sever nerf?
Did you get to play? Do you have healers' potency and skill list?

Also, just by looking at the dragoon
SpineShatter Dive : 500 +50%
Nastrond : 3000
Piercing talon : 500 up to 2000
Wheeling Trust combo : last skill 1250 + 10% dmg for 18sec
Jump: 400 + 50% (that you can do every 4sec)


So, since Jump, Nastrond and Spineshatter are out of gcd, we can globally within that 2.5time frame of finishing the Wheeling trust combo do:
750 + 3000 + 1250 + 600 = 5600
if you add that 10% bonus from your combo that you should have had up while doing that, we get to 6160. (you can add 10% more litanny and 3% more from passive if you want)

And that's not considering the DoT or any damage previously dealt through your combo. We're just considering "unleashing all out of gcd skill + last combo"
So without any skill having more than 10sec cd, we can realistically burst 6500 within 2.5 which represents 50% of the melee dps health.
From memory I recall the healer in the party having 12500hp like the Dragoon
Assuming that Piercing talon scale lineary, we can then also deal at least another 1000 dmg. for a grand total of 7500
And if we fail to kill the target, we can actually redo the same thing 10-15sec later.

I don't know... unless healer will have 2000 potency spammable instant heal, which I highly doubt, being able to burst 2/3 of a healer healthpool in a small window seems fine to me.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

I think you're missing the point. .

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I think you missed his point, he was trolling by saying that "people seem to love having more skill, perhaps in 6.0 they'll be happy with 70 skill on their action bar"

I was being sarcastic, what i mean is the abilities bloat can get out of hand if SE just continue on their current trend. Its better to reform sooner then later.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

From memory I recall the healer in the party having 9500 hp.

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https://i2.wp.com/gamerescape.com/wp...?fit=804%2C467

As for healing vs damage potency... healing typically has considerably higher potency and end numbers than damage in this game. I'd expect the baseline heal to have around 3k potency with the new potency system, cooldowns anywhere between 3k and 5k, Regen effects around 1000-1500 per tick. And it's scarcely far fetched to assume they'll have their cooldowns reduced a lot as well.

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, I don't expect any severe nerf. Or any nerf, really. There's no precedent of such a direction (In terms of healing anyway) and from the HP they showcased (which is a clear relative buff compared to now), I think they're more likely to buff healers than nerf them.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I think you missed his point, he was trolling by saying that "people seem to love having more skill, perhaps in 6.0 they'll be happy with 70 skill on their action bar"

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Indeed!

10char

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Originally Posted by Sunako

I come back two days ago and tried first time that feast mode and it is not active at all. With healer i manged get some games in the prime time, but even that take sometimes over 30min.

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That's not true at all. If you look at Chaos Top 100 some people did over 700-1000 ranked matches this season which would be impossible with long wait times. And 8vs8 has less than 5 minute pops for months.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

snip.

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I edited my post with the HP part to stay consistent.


Well, current Healing has considerably higher potency.
Until the game is realesed we don't know.
If you expect the healers to have access to a 1500 hp/thick hot then I hope the dev working on the pvp system don't have your mindset, because giving healer a hot that can outheal any dps rotation will indeed make healer totally broken. Which is why I find your expectation a bit off. You're not expecting them to be hard to kill, you're expecting a healer to be able to whistand 3-4 dps just by using their basic heal+hot.

On the cooldown part, it's not like healers have a lot of cooldown in general. But I also expect spell like Essential dignity to be reduced to 10-15sec.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, .

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And again, how do you know they won't.
They drastically reworked dps in pvp, why wouldn't they drastically change Healing in pvp? They reworked the entire pvp system and you say "Unless they change the way the approach healers"? Isn't there a better time to expect them to change the way they approach Something?

If dps can't pop 50 cooldown to take down someone, it is safe to assume healer don't need as much potency to stay alive. They shouldn't receive more heal to heal less dmg.



Btw, I don't think a single dps should easily be able to take down a healer. Taking down a healer should require the work of 2 well sync dps or 3 dps.
At the same time, I don't believe a healer should be able to survive for an Extended period of time 2-3 dps.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

I heard from several pvpers they actually like wolves den better then feast but lvl 50 pvp has less abilities but more enjoyable then lvl 60? Or should SE bump the next pvp mode to lvl 70 and give us 5-7 more abilities on top of what we already have? And then in 5.0 we can have even more abilities on top of the bloated abilities we currently have and in 6.0 even more abilities and everyone can enjoy pvping with 70-80 abilities. Becausethat sounds like fun.

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But people doing feast don't use or do more than 1 rotation and it's a hide behind wall and button mashing. So I don't understand all this complaints about not having enough actions?

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

And again, how do you know they won't.

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How do you know they will?

It's a rhetorical question that goes both ways. Nobody knows, we're all just assuming - You included. And I expect the dev team to screw up the balance because they have a history of screwing up. I expect them to buff healers because healers are currently by far the least popular job in PvP and people were moaning about it being too hard. Moreover, they systematically under-tune healing requirements in their design throughout the entire game. And considering they weren't even considering synergy effects in PvE up until now, they more than likely will also fail to recognize the effects of CC in PvP.

I don't know what your optimism is based on, but those are my reasons to assume bad things coming. You can disagree, of course, but please stop saying:"BUT YOU DON'T KNOW!", because you don't know the opposite either. We all have to wait and see and dwell in our hopes and dreads until then.

Seems like SE is making a pretty big gamble with these dramatic changes. They risk alienating a lot of veterans by cutting down on their options but I guess they're hoping they'll bring in enough newcomers to make up for it. Only time will tell if the changes pay off.

As someone that's not big on PVP the biggest positive I see in all of this is with the new scaling system. Hopefully this will keep all PVP modes relevant instead of the queues only being alive for level cap ones.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

That's not true at all. If you look at Chaos Top 100 some people did over 700-1000 ranked matches this season which would be impossible with long wait times. And 8vs8 has less than 5 minute pops for months.

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Some of them have multi-classed/queued for the job with the lowest time to fill. I could play that many games too if I queued as scholar all the time, but queue as any kind of ranged and you could be waiting 15-30 minutes as a queue. I'd say you'd be lucky to see 10 games a day and spend more time queueing for them than actually playing in them as a ranged, idk about tank/melee (I queued drk a few times and got 5-15min queues). If I recall you predominantly played tank before? So your queues are kinda short. Could be wrong, I stopped queueing mid-april because I went back to work and I didn't feel like spending most of my evening to queue for 2 or 3 matches (and I'm fairly sure I'm already safe on Elemental); and I do remember you not queueing a large amount at the time; so IDR what you play. But the point is if you work full time or school or something, remembering that queues don't really start before like 1-2PM and are dead by 11 on most days, you are lucky to play a few games a day.


I mean just going down the list, Haki queues nonstop, even if he has to wait ages. And he is on literally every day and most of every day, I don't even think he works lol. Yuni is a healer. Livie is a tank. Makenshi is a healer. Mikasa? Also a healer. And a really active one too. Male XIII - also a healer, Commander Justitia - tank that has also queued as filler healer. Do you see where I'm going for this, sure, you can get 700+ games if you queue literally every day whilst queues are live as a healer. I mean I see your point because Sunako is queueing healer, but even then it can be dead and -is- dead outside of prime regardless of what you queue as. If there is only one other healer in queue too then yeah, I'm not surprised they're getting 30 min queues as you're essentially waiting for them if they take a break.

Also take into account most of those healers queued from the first early part of s4 when literally anyone could get games quick. Loads of people are sitting now too since 2200 is pmuch safe.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

How do you know they will?

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I have no freaking clue! But the game steadily improved over time, patch after patch. And I'm expecting it to keep improving.
They obviously invested a lot of time and thought in this new system. Being worried is a thing, calling it broken before launch is another.
For fuck sake, we don't even know what everyjob can do. We just know dragoons...

I'm actually expecting that the team working on PVP has thought about these things and balanced this stuff a little better than what you proposed with your 2000 hots and 5000 heal. You're not concerned about 3-4% unbalanced gameplay here...

The number you've guess are so gruesome that they don't even make sens. I actually took the time to look at what the DRG can do and made some guess according to that and what would make sens. A healer able to overheal a dps with 1 single hot only isn't a balance scenario and doesn't make any sens. Nor does the ability to spam 5000hp skill. Does it make sens for a healer, with all his tools, to be able to overheal a single dps? I believe yes, 2 dps, perhaps if they're not unleashing everything at the same time. Does it make sens for a healer to be able to whistand 4-5 dps? well... maybe not.

Concerning the CC in PvP I share some of your concern too, but again, I won't make any doomday claim until the game is released.
Maybe they tried giving 1 stun to dps and realised it did more harm than good, which is why only tank (with probably lower dps than melee) will be the stunning player.
You sound like all the WHM on the healing forum, they're all about to commit seppuku.
I'm not saying it will be fantastic and super balance on day one, happy butterfly and rainbow unicorn stuff.

But I believe the core change they did will improve the state of PvP by allowing more players to dive in it.
PvP is currently overwhelming, and if your reply is "but they dont take the time to learn it", well possibly, but if the vast majority of player don't wanna take the time to learn it because "it's overwhelming". Then perhaps they should do something to adresse the issue, and this is what they did.

And btw, to everyone valuing pvp in FF14, when it get released, you guys should make constructive feedback on what to improve, why it doesn't work and what could be done (realistically)to adress the issue.
Because if there's something people are good at on forum, it's to complain everything is broken without even saying what is (which obviously is immensly helpful to the dev). The devs do read our feedback, the removal of the casting time on bard and mach are a proof. When you hear Yoshida speaking, you can see that he's aware of many of the current issue.

To each their own in terms of what they think of the changes... but I'm excited for this.

I was never one who thought more buttons = more skills. In fact more buttons annoyed me despite being proficient with them.

I'm a huge dota head admittedly, so the few buttons attract me even more. Completely different game I know but I'm in love with what I see.

Always enjoyed PvP. Going to enjoy it more. Just wish they'd bring chat back

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Originally Posted by Keramory

Just wish they'd bring chat back

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This is it. :D

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Hopefully to counter the "nobody dies - ever" scenario, they'll either give healing in PVP a severe nerf and/or just limit teams to a single healer only.

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But they did give some form of CC to all jobs so maybe this was their way to compensate healing in SB? cant really say anything for sure untill we see the numbers. PLD lost hes chain stunning tho and WAR might not be that OP anymore ;___;

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Originally Posted by Synestra

PLD lost hes chain stunning tho

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Source, or just making stuff up?

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

asd.

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Indeed and it was just example. I tried que with tank, healer and dps and que times are pretty dead. Mainly i wanna que with my summoner because it have been my main class that i have played since 2.0, but those ques take usually something between 20 - 40minutes. Because feast have been active in the first weeks, that not mean it is popular at all. I really like feast lot more than frontline, but these que times make me wonder why I even play this game. Pvp is like last reason play this game if it is like this. We need huge improvements for pvp make it more active. This can not stay like this.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

I'm actually expecting that the team working on PVP has thought about these things and balanced this stuff a little better than what you proposed with your 1000-1500 hots and 5000 heal. You're not concerned about 3-4% unbalanced gameplay here...

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Turns out I wasn't even far off...
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...0606_db_07.png
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/002069.html

Cost sounds hefty, but if I recall correctly, so did the TP costs of DPS skills.

Yep, still concerned. Open questions include the amount of manareg and potencies/TP costs of other skills. So far, it bodes ill.

It takes a little bit more than a second to cast to restore 5k HP, and to do 5k damage with new dps skills when bursting you need around 5 seconds or more. Nothing will die. It'll be long, dull, uneventfull fights with multiple culling times.

Not so much a mechanical matter, but the new PvP gear looks pretty nice.

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...06_jpiw_16.jpg

So all the competitive aspects of higher end pvp has now been handicapped because people didn't want to take the time and effort to practice and improve so they can roll with the big boys? Oh well i suppose all good things have to come to an end sometime.