JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

I stopped helping/stopped caring to help other people I do not care for in this game more then a year now. After all the messed up things I have seen in this game, and no I won't openly help people out again. I am actually surprised I am still playing this game honestly.

But yes at one time I did used to help out any random stranger, and I loved doing it, but after meeting purely stubborn people that think they play thier class "perfectly", unwillness to take advice from others, blame others for thier lack of competent play, people using others for thier own selfish needs, and jealously toward others that can do content that they can't, even when those players offer a helping hand to them, but instead is meet with childish rages, and also those that want to be completely carried in all content with no effort on thier part on anything. I have lefted several FC's because of this stuff.

This type attitude only helps to create, I hate using these words, but a divide between casual/hardcore player base where each side will outright belittle eachother over the smallest of things, and neither side has any willingness to let go, and give up on some ground. Where they are not blinded by thier own bias opinions.

I don't know about the JP/EU server base. But NA majority of players just want instant gratification with very little work, effort, determination put into anything. But instead wait for content nerfs, gear catch up mechanics, carries where content becomes meaningless to do. While it loses the meaningful reward it had for doing it in the first place.

Let's be real in NA it's all about the ME, ME, ME complex that divides our community.

All I see in this thread is two factions pointing fingers at each other and yelling "IT'S NOT OUR FAULT! THEY'RE THE BAD ONES!"
"Elitists" vs. casuals all over again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irie

All I see in this thread is two factions pointing fingers at each other and yelling "IT'S NOT OUR FAULT! THEY'RE THE BAD ONES!"
"Elitists" vs. casuals all over again.

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Well, one of the problems is that the more casual players and the ones you call "elitist", end up in the same groups too often...

Japan is one country with the same culture and the player-base there can easily split into group with the same goals. If you make a group for early on practice, then most players that join will have similar knowledge and motivation as the one who created it... and same for kill/farm groups etc. Which makes it a lot easier to be patient.

The problem isn't that NA/EU players aren't good enough, it's that the wrong players group up with each-other.

If casuals grouped up with other like-minded casuals, and hardcore raiders grouped up with other like-minded hardcore raiders, we would have a much better functioning raid community.

EDIT: How to more easily find like-minded players, I have no idea though...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

Maybe those DPS would perform better if they were helped rather then tossed out like trash cause they cant perform. (insulted, vote kicked etc)

Now sure i have read my fair share of "they refuse to learn" topics on this forum but I'm more willing to believe that people simply are not willing to teach and rather just blame others for not getting better on their own.

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No one should be insulted, but if a DPS isn't performing up to par in endgame content and they are getting in the way of a clear, why shouldn't they be kicked? If you step into savage mode doing less than 600 DPS as a player, that's on you. There are COUNTLESS online resources to help you with your rotation and not reading up on your rotation or asking for advice BEFORE raid shows laziness and lack to take responsibility for yourself.

Learning a fight is a completely different animal, and I agree that players should be more patient when it comes to this. Many players forget that they were there too, and as a whole, this community could learn to be more patient (unless you make a farm group, then people are expected to know what they're doing). The problem often lies not in lacking patience for people learning a fight, but for people who don't know a fight AND don't know how to play their jobs. Even if I teach you your correct rotation, how can I expect you to perform it correctly AND deal with a fight whose mechanics you are unfamiliar with. High DPS in Savage mode is not a luxury to make the fight go faster, it's downright REQUIRED to clear fights. I understand that many people are hands-on learners and a video of a fight may not help them, but please do your homework before stepping into endgame raiding by learning how to play your job. It's not my responsibility to teach you how to DPS in a fight where everyone has to be on their toes, that's something you should have done on your own, and blaming others because you failed to hold yourself accountable for your faults is not cool to the 7 other people you're playing with. It's a lot easier to say "but no one will teach me, it's not my fault" after getting called out for your DPS rather than taking it as a learning experience and check out the myriad of resources available to you.

Main issue with most people is once they progress past the learning phase they feel everyone should be on thier own level and that is not true. So many times and rarely do you run into people on my server who will try to keep the group together but they are quickly over-run and outvoted on the kick/abandon. Just different mind set of people wanting instant gratification and nothing less.

You know what JP players do in spades that NA players don't? They take responsibility for their play. It's widely known at this point that players on the JP server treat grouping up with strangers much differently that NA players.

JP players go into group content practiced and ready to down what ever they queue up for. NA players? Nah, not so much. You either practice, prepare, and know your rotation (elitist) or you want to do things your own way. When people want to do things their own way, it's only a logical extension that they will use under performing rotations, have to be spoon fed fight strats, and play poorer due to a lack of practice.The JP players are better because they don't expect to be given their rewards at the expense of others. NA players don't care about other people's time. All this blame shifting in this thread to get rid of the concept of personal responsibility. If a player is bad, it's their responsibility to improve or sit on the side lines. If a player can't get a group or kill, it's time to make your own group, join an FC, join a static, join an end game LS, or just give up and realize you're not cut out for this content.

People just like to make excuses:
"I don't like endgame players, they are such meanies, waaaaah!"
"I don't have time for X, Y, or Z, waaaah!"
"I have been irreversibly triggered by being told I suck, waaaah!"
etc etc etc

There are all types of end game groups from weekend raiding statics full of professionals with families to bleeding edge raiders who raided every day for 5+ hrs. People manage to maintain families, careers, homesteads, and a high level of play in FFXIV. If you have some excuse as to why you can't play at a high level in FFXIV, one of the most casual MMOs in the genre, the problem lies with you and no one else. Understand that fact. Own it. Improve. Stop using the elitist raiding straw-man as a way to dodge the fact that improvement and learning fights are a personal responsibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atmora

snip

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The selfish mentality goes both ways unfortunately, people who has things on grind don't want first timers cause its a waste of their time and first timers want to sneak into farm parties as to not waste time themselves.

Which is why there is a very small number of learning groups in the PF in general.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odett

No one should be insulted, but if a DPS isn't performing up to par in endgame content and they are getting in the way of a clear, why shouldn't they be kicked?

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Some people might not know that their dps is bad cause the only means of checking that is considered a TOS violation.

Not to mention that people wont exactly explain to the person why they decide to kick them out so in the end they are left in the dark wondering what just happened and not knowing that their performance was not up to par.

NA/EU Attitudes SUCK on this game. 1.0 I so much more enjoyed my stay on Gungnir, a JPN server >.< wish i never switched.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zosia

Scarecrow assault

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Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

Since you have trouble reading, let me digest that post for you.

tl:dr They are not entitled to our time. They should group up together, create their own parties, befriend end-game FCs or LS. I provided plenty of solutions. Just like a typical player in this game, you want OTHER people to do the work for these 'eager learners' not willing to work for themselves.

So, when you're ready to actually discuss the systemic problem of casual entitlement, please check your poor understanding of fallacies at the door and address the issues that drive good players away from wanting to play with these poor disenfranchised masses waiting to learn content.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zosia

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

Since you have trouble reading, let me digest that post for you.

tl:dr They are not entitled to our time.

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No one is entitled to do anything, but, in the abscence of SE's development of the game, if your want to improve the number of players interesred in raiding, which means more people to select from, you can't just sit on your hands and wait for it to poof into being.

Unlike in 2.0, people have options now. If endgame raiding is seen as, well, a head bangingly bad time with the party as well as the mobs, many won't do it patch after patch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irie

All I see in this thread is two factions pointing fingers at each other and yelling "IT'S NOT OUR FAULT! THEY'RE THE BAD ONES!"
"Elitists" vs. casuals all over again.

---

Tbh, I see a lot more than that. You can call it elitist vs casual if that makes it easier to write off. To often in our community, simply being good is enough to be labelled as Elitist, while Casual is used as an excuse and defense for preforming well below standard. You don't have to be a hardcore elitist to learn your role basics.

What I see in our community and here, is people ignoring the part where people from the Japan servers saying people show up more prepared for a fight, doing their research, and knowing their roll. You have people who are saying the average dps they see over there is 800-1000, and rarely a much poorer player, where here it's very common to see people doing 200-300.

The community, imho, would be in a much more positive and helpful place if there wasn't so many who couldn't be bothered to preform at even a mediocre standard. People need to help themselves help the team. Wanting people to learn the basics of their role and watch a video by level 60 is far from elitist.

Even in this thread. Someone who claims to be looking for ways to improve the community flat out wrote the comming prepared off if you had less time. They wrote off a key aspect of smooth runs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myahele

it'll never happen in a culture of instant gratification.

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From my experience it isn't so much about instant gratification; it's about wasting time. People see it as a waste of time if there is nothing in it for them so this makes learning old content that is still level relevant a massive chore.

For learning a class most people expect you to have it down by max level, yet so many don't and it could be because they're stubborn but I also see many of the experienced players talk down to them when they are willing to learn. There is also a lack of useful resources on the internet when it comes to ff14. We as a community need the experienced players to write more guides instead of people posting confusing 20-40 minute videos.

The JP caller is right though and players helping players would fix many woes within the US community. Our community is capable of doing so much more; it's also one of the better gaming communities in the US to!

There are actually not too many differences in jp amd NA communities, its more a responce of how we play mmo based on the MMO we have played before.

Japan does not have a ton of mmo, yoshida touched base on this during 1.0 when he took over, so alot of the devs didn't understand the "modern" mmo scene.

From my experience in ff11 and ff14 with the jp community, they have just as meny bad players as we do, just as meny trolls as we do. They just don't make excuses for them and are quick to kick them out. Though at times you do run across the troll groups and elitist.

Its also a misconception jp use pf for practice and df for farm. I've seen both amoung the playerbase on tonberry. And the jp datacenter I'm on has a 3 wipe rule, if the group wipes 3 times its vote abandon, no fights no calling out players just vote abandon.

Now with what I stated above, japanese players don't have a ton of mmo at their finger tips, a large portion of jp play on ps3/ps4 though some do play on pc and have had some experience on WoW or other mmo. Alot of Japanese mmo are also very group centric ff11 being a big 1.

Where our big mmo was WoW which was more solo centric, players over in NA are not used to dealing with groups till endgame and mostly played endgame with RL friend (due to how popular WoW was) And alot of my experience with WoW, players considered "pugs" to be bad due to you was playing with random players and couldn't trust them and it was a "waste of time".

So in this the jp community and NA community clash a bit and alot of reason why JP players dislike NA players.

I think what NA plauers need is to be more open minded and mindful of the genre that MMO are, which is massive multiplayer. Instead of playing the game for ourselves, be more mindful of the people we group with.

There is a right and wrong way to handle game situation and from my personal expeience NA players handle thing the wrong way 9 times outa 10.

Such as thinking of yourself and personsal time and getting upset when someone "wastes" it because you waste their time being upset. Remember its about the group not yourself.

Another thing is give people room to breath and learn, don't force advice down their throats due to the "waste time". People learn at different paces and in different ways, some learn best by researching, some learn best by experimenting on their own, some do best by asking for tips.

If a player or a run isn't going the way you like you can opt to leave gracefully and do something else for 30min.
This goes foing doing content, or learning jobs, remember it is a game.

The wrong way to go about it is force feeding advice, or calling people lazy for not researching stuff before hand. I personally have ADD and Aspergers, I have tried to read guides before or watch videos and I personally don't get much info or help from them. I've also noticed alot of guides and videos are outdated due to content aging and having different mindsets or such stuff due to outgearing.


But as i stated before there as meny good and bad players trolls and elitist in both jp and NA communities its just how each group handles them is different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

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wants help, yet calls people tryhards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Stuff

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My point was that as long as ppl keep blaming the others and not trying to reflect on their own mistakes / behaviour nothing's gonna change. We can go on about how this is a cultural thing, how the commnunity / mindset / you name it is different, but in the end for me it boils down to pretending as if it's someone elses fault or finding some other excuse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kallera

No one is entitled to do anything, but, in the abscence of SE's development of the game, if your want to improve the number of players interesred in raiding, which means more people to select from, you can't just sit on your hands and wait for it to poof into being.Unlike in 2.0, people have options now. If endgame raiding is seen as, well, a head bangingly bad time with the party as well as the mobs, many won't do it patch after patch.

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That is why it's not advantageous to work on building an endgame community anymore.

SE crashed the endgame community of ARR into a brick wall with 3.0. It's literally in shambles right now. We have received little to no sympathy from the non-raiding community for these terrible design choices. So, now that a lot of our friends have quit or transferred servers, it's up to us to fix what SE broke? Nah, no thanks. I already have enough irl stuff to stress about, the plight of some stranger who needs a Bis EX clear is the last thing I am thinking about when I go to log in.

Glad I'm not the only one who finds the notion of a 'NA community' fairly amusing, or any community outside of JP for that matter. :rolleyes:

Trying to teach a person in Duty Finder does more harm than good now and days. The amount of "grateful" people are a small group. Just because this forum maybe "Grateful" or the "Im willing" does not mean its the community.
Chances are, if you try to tell a person in DF Expert how to play a class now and days, 70% you are gonna be ignored, told to shut up, or get into an argument of why they're playstyle is better (though it could worst) by using some weird credentials. Like "I have 3 classes at 60 I know what I'm doing" or "I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I HAVE OVER 100 CONFIRMED KILLS AND 100 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS SAID CLASS AND I KNOW IM PLAYING CORRECTLY".

I once joined a in-progress Tam-Tara normal mode as tank, was told the 1st tank could not hold aggro. After a few pulls, I realize that its also not just the 1st tanks fault but also the fault of the healer for ONLY using medica and medica only. Healer used Medica right after I did Shield Lob, I took 50 dmg, healer did Medica. At the end, I told the person they shouldn't, i was given the "WELL IN WOW THIS IS HOW I PLAYED"........ya....so they "unjustly" kicked their first tank

So what do you do? You are already annoyed at the person, so save yourself MORE trouble, headaches, and stress by not saying anything. IMO if we really wanted the NA community to start looking better (looking forward), target freshly new players that are at lv10-26ish (by 26 most class has atleast 3 essential skills).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Now that you're done with the strawman, do you mind addressing the actual subject? There are players on NA servers all too ready to learn these fights but folks like you and other tryhards seem to have no interest if it means more competition for the trinkets you feel entitled to exclusively.

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If you go into learning parties with an attitude like that, I don't think many people would be inclined to help you. :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ExiaQuanta

Chances are, if you try to tell a person in DF Expert how to play a class now and days, 70% you are gonna be ignored, told to shut up, or get into an argument of why they're playstyle is better (though it could worst) by using some weird credentials. Like "I have 3 classes at 60 I know what I'm doing" or "I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I HAVE OVER 50 CONFIRMED KILLS AND 100 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS SAID CLASS AND I KNOW IM PLAYING CORRECTLY".

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That's unfortunately a true reality: I admit that I'm a "bit" like that too, especially since I have tanked in all mmorpgs so far and I consider myself a decent tanker in most games, however I cannot deny that I have a tiny bit of pride in me that doesn't allow others to judge me. But I do mean tiny because I DO listen to criticism and I don't simply bash the player back for giving me an advice. Worst case scenario, I usually ignore it and move on.

You can't expect the "endgamers" to help others when the community tolerates willingly bad and ignorant players.

Until "I play for fun" players are reformed into "I play for fun while trying my best to learn" not many experienced players are going to bother trying to teach.

The harsh truth is that every single player is responsible for their own learning and until the community starts enforcing it the environment is not going to improve.

After having witnessed both sides I can safely say that the majority of people who take either side in this argument have become jaded by bad experiences and are unwilling to loosen up their stance on the matter at hand. I've seen new players who were offered advice (I myself have tried on many occasions) respond with at worst a full blown rant about how what they're doing is fine and how dare someone offer them any tips. I've also seen new players who struggled but were clearly trying and were met with a potent dose of venom from a "pro" in the party (who generally seem to be not much better than the one they're shredding).

I think in the beginning many people who start up want to learn but depending on their experiences in the leveling department come to hold firm to the philosophies of ignoring all advice and writing it off as shit talk from some person who thinks they're worth more or not bothering to offer tips they may have because they expect the person will attack them from trying. This is what most people cite as reasons for not wanting to learn or offer advice even in this thread alone. However it's this mentality of holding on to bad experiences and not wanting to take the chance to put a bad experience behind them that has left people so unwilling to learn or help.

Yet, if people don't get over it and keep trying things will only continue to decline. Even if one out of 10 people you try offering advice to take it with gratitude it's still worth it because that one person can then go on to use what help you gave them and eventually pass it on to the next person even if they have similar odds on getting people to hear them out. I think before more guides need to be written or more videos published or more party finder groups spring up we need to get to the core of the issue, mindsets. If the mindsets to teach or learn are not there you could open 100 party finder learning groups and only a fraction of them would be filled let alone function as intended.

If you know a role well and see someone struggling in a party finder group, why not try politely offering some advice? Even if you assume that person will respond back negatively what harm can words in a chatbox on a video game do to you? If you're new and met with harsh and unconstructive criticism, why not just treat it like you would any other time you run into a rude person? People don't run into one rude person in the world and assume everyone else is equally rude after all. If you're met with someone who genuinely tries to help you even if you feel like you're getting along fine there's no harm in trying, you may be surprised and learn something anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zosia

That is why it's not advantageous to work on building an endgame community anymore.

SE crashed the endgame community of ARR into a brick wall with 3.0. It's literally in shambles right now. We have received little to no sympathy from the non-raiding community for these terrible design choices. So, now that a lot of our friends have quit or transferred servers, it's up to us to fix what SE broke? Nah, no thanks. I already have enough irl stuff to stress about, the plight of some stranger who needs a Bis EX clear is the last thing I am thinking about when I go to log in.

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What goes around comes around, I guess. I actually enjoy Alex was designed with a normal mode in mind ,and I am looking foward to the exploratory stuff with my fc, which has players of various skill. The lack of participation in endgame was something se wanted to address.

The biggest issue is that this game was not created for experienced MMO players to begin with, 2.0 was redesigned to draw in and make money off of Final Fantasy Fans first and foremost. The average FF Fan these days is someone who started around FF7 or 8, was a heavy console single RPG player and the lacks proper social skills to deal with criticism from someone they never met.

The second issue is that to cater to the Fans, the devs did what no other mmo has really done before, they made endgame "Optional". Whether it was PvE or PvP most mmo's constantly force you to work towards something. The story driven design and lack of conflict resolution aka decent PvP outlets removed the incentive to take on the challenges of tougher content. Because of this we have an overwhelmingly "Passive Player Base". This is the only mmo I've played where you can actually log on and do nothing ,not because you can't find a party but because "choosing" to do nothing is a valid option.

To be honest the worst thing they did in this "Story Driven" Game was give away the story so easily. The Raiding player base was definitely higher when we had to work to unlock the Coil Story. And despite people complaining they still tried because they had the "Incentive" and "Desire" to see the story. So as long as SE gives the story away and no incentive don't expect people to raid or care to.

I don't agree. It's not my job to teach anyone. You want to become a better player? Do your research, practice on dummies, have a friend parse you. Make an effort FFS!
To quote a recent South Park episode which is very relevant to these forums, at least for the whiny cry baby bads:
"You're sad people are mean? I'm sorry the world isn't one big Liberal Arts college campus..."
http://i.imgur.com/DxHKHUp.png

@ animaralic

Umm...... nothing you said is correct. I started to play mmo with ff11, I was a slight fan of the games. And i'm an NES gen gamer and pretty much all games were solo. You know what I did, i treated people like i nowmally would offline. I try to be pleasent and understanding, And my first ff game was ff8. And in ff11 endgame was absolutely optional, I played ff11 for 7 years and only did end game for 3 mnths. I did otherstuff like craft, help other players, level other classes, also ff11 pvp wasn't big either.

so. ya...... kinda using baseless assuptions with nothing to back up with what you said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kallera

What goes around comes around, I guess. I actually enjoy Alex was designed with a normal mode in mind ,and I am looking foward to the exploratory stuff with my fc, which has players of various skill. The lack of participation in endgame was something se wanted to address.

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and they failed at it. The only increase in participation we have seen is in the story mode alex, which is hardly end game content. It's just another faceroll DF-able dungeon that you can complete by rolling your face across the keyboard. I have so little faith that this dev team can deliver after taking more time with 3.1 and delivering a much smaller patch than we all anticipated. Two dungeons? One trial? Pfft? I really hope sky hunts, which I think is a better term, pans out to be amazing because EVERYONE is feeling the weight of this content drought.

It's not the responsibility of good players to be altruistic and do what SE is getting paid to do. SE needs to incorporate motivating factors for more skilled players to play with less skilled players. SE needs to find a way to foster an end game community.

This captain Ahab content designed to destroy raid teams is more of our (skilled players) concern right now than trying to help Joe Casual get his Ex clear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kedo

I don't agree. It's not my job to teach anyone. You want to become a better player? Do your research, practice on dummies, have a friend parse you. Make an effort FFS!
To quote a recent South Park episode which is very relevant to these forums, at least for the whiny cry baby bads:
"You're sad people are mean? I'm sorry the world isn't one big Liberal Arts college campus..."
http://i.imgur.com/DxHKHUp.png

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part of the mmo experience is infact teaching others, research only goes so far and parses have been knwn to be inaccurate. All in all we need lewss people like you, as its because people like you ruined the mmo community, and reason i play on tonberry.

and for your advice to "git gud" my advice is to grow up.

@Azazua Nothing you said contradicts what I spoke of. Also the Raid population is down because there is no reason to do it. Checked your lodestone you are a lv 50 with no sense of endgame. Even in FFXI I have more experience than what you listed. If you have another character that actually has some experience I'd be more open to debate with you but, currently you are the exact type of gamer i'm talking about. A FF Fan not an experienced MMO player. When i say experienced I mean someone who actually has a track record of playing multiple mmos for years not a franchise they followed out of loyalty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

part of the mmo experience is infact teaching others, research only goes so far and parses have been knwn to be inaccurate. All in all we need lewss people like you, as its because people like you ruined the mmo community, and reason i play on tonberry.

and for your advice to "git gud" my advice is to grow up.

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Kedo seems grown up to me. Seems you just don't like the taste of truth. Where in IRL do employers open up workshops to train unqualified individuals to work in high end positions within said company? Things don't work that way in the adult world. People attain a job by being trained, informed, having an education, and having connections. What you want is equivocal to a happy time day care 'sharing is caring' hug fest hour. Grow out of your idealistic naive mind frame where any person, in-game or irl, is entitled to another being's time and energy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Animarelic

The biggest issue is that this game was not created for experienced MMO players to begin with...

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Girl, you're playing the wrong game then. Story was always easier at FF games, so everyone could experience it, with optional endgame superbosses as a bonus to more skilled players: this is the FF formula and it's not changing anytime soon - and the fact this a MMORPG means nothing to it, since the Final Fantasy name is way stronger than a gaming standard.

The biggest issue in this game, in all honesty, are non-FF fans/players trying to change it into something raid-focused rather than a real FF game. Maybe because the game these people played has fallen apart, maybe because they can't accept this is not supposed to be a hardcore game at all (hence tomes you can cap with less than 1-hour/day playtime that gives you nearly-top equips etc).

Where in IRL do employers open up workshops to train unqualified individuals to work in high end positions within said company?

They are called trainees. Every respected company in my country has THOUSANDS of them, and most end up in high level occupations inside the same company that trained them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zosia

A lot of people just don't care / are lazy / think their special / etc to go through the work before wasting other people's time.

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Or players like you who call it work think everything is a wast of your time read what you say

Quote:

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go through the work

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lol your not at a job none of this is work it's a game and what players do is all choice but never work thinking anything is work means your not having fun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zosia

Kedo seems grown up to me. Seems you just don't like the taste of truth. Where in IRL do employers open up workshops to train unqualified individuals to work in high end positions within said company? Things don't work that way in the adult world. People attain a job by being trained, informed, having an education, and having connections. What you want is equivocal to a happy time day care 'sharing is caring' hug fest hour. Grow out of your idealistic naive mind frame where any person, in-game or irl, is entitled to another being's time and energy.

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That's the other issue, people comparing a video game to sit back and have fun vs getting a job in the real world. I hate to break this to you, a ton of people in the "real" world get jobs and employment while being severely unqualified. Happens all the time. Some make good with it and actually get good at the job with a bit of ....you got it, help!

So you are basically saying "I'm rude and unpleasant and see the whole world through a meaningless and ignorant liberal \ conservative lens, then stare blankly wondering why groups fail so quickly with people like me and my bad attitude in them."

Has the "git gud" attitude ever helped complete content? It's basically useless. Either group with people at your skill level or have a positive and helpful attitude with the people you get. If you feel like saying "git gud", then actually you're the problem because you picked the wrong group.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Where in IRL do employers open up workshops to train unqualified individuals to work in high end positions within said company?

They are called trainees. Every respected company in my country has THOUSANDS of them, and most end up in high level occupations inside the same company that trained them.

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You can get those jobs as an entry level worker? Nope. You need training before hand in the form of internships, apprenticeships, college education for those recruiters to even take a slight interest in you.

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Or players like you who call it work think everything is a wast of your time read what you say lol your not at a job none of this is work it's a game and what players do is all choice but never work thinking anything is work means your not having fun

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I did not call the game a job, it was a comparison. Try again.

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Originally Posted by Monty

That's the other issue, people comparing a video game to sit back and have fun vs getting a job in the real world. I hate to break this to you, a ton of people in the "real" world get jobs and employment while being severely unqualified. Happens all the time. Some make good with it and actually get good at the job with a bit of ....you got it, help!

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With that point you are making, the co-worker picking up the slack is also being paid to maintain their position/department.

It does not impact me if I help an unskilled player. I would never bring them into my static, I want an extremely high caliber of player for that. There is literally nothing to gain other than a sense of satisfaction. Again, it's not our responsibility, It's SE's to foster this community. This was not such a huge issue in ARR, what did they change? what did they do differently?

NA community just had too many polar opposite mindset and egos on both ends.

You either can't get your feelings hurt and just accept another person has good advice for self improvement but you close your ears because pretending you're right in your brain makes you feel better. Or you've clear and do things so often you forget what it's like to be in a situation where you're the only new person and you need some time to feel the mechanics so you see everyone who isn't on your level already as bad players so you instant leave without waiting to see if they will accept advice and improve.

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Originally Posted by zosia

You can get those jobs as an entry level worker? Nope. You need training before hand in the form of internships, apprenticeships, college education for those recruiters to even take a slight interest in you.

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You get them at 16-21 years old along with highschool studies. So yes, entry-level workers. Also, if you don't help someone from the beginning, you can't expect him to 'git gud' at anything. So when you get paired with someone bad at DF, suck it up and at least play with them, since you don't want to help.

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Originally Posted by zosia

You can get those jobs as an entry level worker? Nope. You need training before hand in the form of internships, apprenticeships, college education for those recruiters to even take a slight interest in you.



I did not call the game a job, it was a comparison. Try again.

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I don't need to try again you don't need to use a job as a comparison they are nothing in the same one is about making cash in real life to eat and live one is sitting on your ass to have fun lol

People imo only care about other play style because it affects their own personal game progression, in other words they don't give a rats behind how the person progress as long as it doesn't affect them and if it does then they offer advice and so on. Granted this doesn't apply to everyone but for alot of the endgamers I wouldn't be surprised.