Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Actually I disagree with this sentiment.

I often take breaks in between patch cycles and don't have the flexability of joining a static due to random working hours.

This means I am subject to the party finder upon my return.

Unfortunately I found often the case when returning to Stormblood for example, the item level's party finder requirement were so high that you couldn't actually join savage this late into the game without already having some savage gear.

That only left me with duty finder, but not many people would queue for incomplete duty this late into a patch cycle.

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I pugged Sigma and Alpha from time to time last tier and never had an issue joining parties despite my tanks only having tome or Ivalice gear. Hell, I took my BRD in full i380 crafted. Perhaps Elemental is different, though I think you're just making excuses since Aether is supposedly the "toxic, elitist" DC.

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Originally Posted by linay

You're mixing two different issues.

If you've exhausted the content as in you've cleared and you have nothing else you want to do, then that has nothing to do with the cap. You can take a break if you want. Know when the next content will be released and come back and use catch up mechanics to be ready for it.

If you want to stay geared week after week, then you have not exhausted the content because you still are doing it. In that case, regularly playing it will always be easier, and I agree that if you cannot, it will be more inconvenient for you because the caps were meant to address something else other than you not playing regularly.

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Nah, I'm not really mixing two issues. You just admitted it indirectly.

To stay current week after week, you can't afford to miss your weekly cap. The lack of end game content is felt drastically when one is logging in just to meet their cap cycle, hence they have exhausted their enjoyable content and is just doing the bare minimum to be ready for when their next piece of content will drop(aka they should be able to take a break and not feel obliged to log on to meet a cap cycle).

In short, you have to be meeting that cap cycle constantly to be able to tackle the newest end game content as it releases. So not really able to take a break without putting yourself behind if it means you end up missing a cap cycle.

At least XIV has kept the caps weekly and to a minimum for now, yet over time they do have a tendency to build up if a close eye is not kept on them.

Catch up mechanics are more to allow ease of access to newer content for those that might get stuck behind older content thanks to the player base typically being focused primarily on the newest content.

I also mentioned earlier that while caps purpose is to slow content consumption, if there is indeed a lack of content players will find it irregardless of the cap's existence.

But I'm done going in circles over this. As you do seem to understand it takes meeting the caps to stay current week to week, but yet not get that the caps are what lead to the feel of having to just log on to do X to stay current that creates the job like feel, and feeling of being punished for taking a break that many don't want in MMOs.

To those grossly missing the gd point....it would just feel nice to enter a zone that felt dangerous for once....actually feel strong outside of an instanced fight and create memories of feats that normal players could look up to......have a reason to gather my friends or fc for once and take on a god or something remotely powerful in an open world/zone....hell anything other than the continual instanced microwave content that is never evolving. The fact the people even attack fellow players for asking devs for push the envelope to create content that is innovative is honestly all the motivation i needed to realize that this cult is something i probably had no business ever being a part of. All we wanted to do is challenge the devs to create some fresh and different because like u we care about this game too but this continues to be nothing more than a pissing contest filled with blind sighted individuals who frankly are no different than the sineaters we just dispatched...open ur eyes people.....if yall are ok with the same hamster wheel content why on earth would they ever have ANY reason to innovate??? PSA.....WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM...

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

That sounds like you were dealing with a hidden daily cap. IE a resource that is only gotten from their finite daily quests, in a predetermined amount. Still a cap, just the devs not being up front about it, much like how some of those predatory P2W mobile games work.

So there was a cap in place, just not an obvious one.

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It is when there are no cap, the player base will self impose a invisible daily cap or even hourly cap
The player base will set the pace and you will need to find a static that so willing to stick with the slower pace if I don’t want to turn it into a job
When there is no cap, finding a group who willing to stick with a weekly fight will be the minority.
With no cap most of the players will try to get hearing ASAP, and it is worse if the game is competitive especially Korean made MMO
Players who do not do another other thing like crafting leveling other job, who solely focus on running endgame content and gear progression will feel they are restricted by the weekly cap, I get that. However, the weekly cap sort of even up the progression, miss a day still and still got 6 days to catch up, worst case miss a week would only be 1 gear behind
Like I said some players like me would enjoy the slower pace and some might not. We all have our reasons for liking or hating a weekly cap

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

To those grossly missing the gd point....it would just feel nice to enter a zone that felt dangerous for once....actually feel strong outside of an instanced fight and create memories of feats that normal players could look up to......have a reason to gather my friends or fc for once and take on a god or something remotely powerful in an open world/zone....hell anything other than the continual instanced microwave content that is never evolving. The fact the people even attack fellow players for asking devs for push the envelope to create content that is innovative is honestly all the motivation i needed to realize that this cult is something i probably had no business ever being a part of. All we wanted to do is challenge the devs to create some fresh and different because like u we care about this game too but this continues to be nothing more than a pissing contest filled with blind sighted individuals who frankly are no different than the sineaters we just dispatched...open ur eyes people.....if yall are ok with the same hamster wheel content why on earth would they ever have ANY reason to innovate??? PSA.....WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM...

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People keep asking for a stronger and more dangerous overworld, and then the HP sponges of Heavensward happened and everyone complained that things took too long to kill. Then they complained again wanting a stronger and more punishing overworld, Eureka happened, with its varying aggro mechanics and densely populated areas. Guess what, that wasn't fun either.

People keep claiming to want these things that they hold such nostalgia for, when in actual fact they don't, and I know that for a fact because the second it happens they complain again. It's like those people who moaned about the removal of TP and the "skill" of managing it.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Actually I disagree with this sentiment.

I often take breaks in between patch cycles and don't have the flexability of joining a static due to random working hours.

This means I am subject to the party finder upon my return.

Unfortunately I found often the case when returning to Stormblood for example, the item level's party finder requirement were so high that you couldn't actually join savage this late into the game without already having some savage gear.

That only left me with duty finder, but not many people would queue for incomplete duty this late into a patch cycle.

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Fun fact, you can create your own parties and set your own, less strict item level requirements. Mind blowing I know, you can thank me later.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

To those grossly missing the gd point....it would just feel nice to enter a zone that felt dangerous for once....actually feel strong outside of an instanced fight and create memories of feats that normal players could look up to......have a reason to gather my friends or fc for once and take on a god or something remotely powerful in an open world/zone....hell anything other than the continual instanced microwave content that is never evolving. The fact the people even attack fellow players for asking devs for push the envelope to create content that is innovative is honestly all the motivation i needed to realize that this cult is something i probably had no business ever being a part of. All we wanted to do is challenge the devs to create some fresh and different because like u we care about this game too but this continues to be nothing more than a pissing contest filled with blind sighted individuals who frankly are no different than the sineaters we just dispatched...open ur eyes people.....if yall are ok with the same hamster wheel content why on earth would they ever have ANY reason to innovate??? PSA.....WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM...

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If you came into this thread asking for more open world content or Eureka to be more in-depth beyond zerging down NMs, you'd find a large amount of people support that same idea. Instead, you came in profusing how Savage is too easy despite having never even attempted it. You lose the high ground doing that since a lot of people like instanced content. I, for one, don't really care if the open world became livelier. Why? Because it'd be content isolated to only my server in lieu of something like a better built Eureka where the whole DC can constantly queue. While my dislike of Eureka is well known (not on this account), I do think it has potential if they focus on the wealth of feedback provided. Mayhaps you also find BA too scripted but that was probably the best piece of content they added in Stormblood—second only to Ultimate.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

People keep asking for a stronger and more dangerous overworld, and then the HP sponges of Heavensward happened and everyone complained that things took too long to kill. Then they complained again wanting a stronger and more punishing overworld, Eureka happened, with its varying aggro mechanics and densely populated areas. Guess what, that wasn't fun either.

People keep claiming to want these things that they hold such nostalgia for, when in actual fact they don't, and I know that for a fact because the second it happens they complain again. It's like those people who moaned about the removal of TP and the "skill" of managing it.



Fun fact, you can create your own parties and set your own, less strict item level requirements. Mind blowing I know, you can thank me later.

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Honestly...You have make a valid point....and for some im not sure why it has taken so long to accept the truth..this isnt final fantasy...its casual fantasy. Thank you removing my blind fold

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

People keep asking for a stronger and more dangerous overworld, and then the HP sponges of Heavensward happened and everyone complained that things took too long to kill. Then they complained again wanting a stronger and more punishing overworld, Eureka happened, with its varying aggro mechanics and densely populated areas. Guess what, that wasn't fun either.

People keep claiming to want these things that they hold such nostalgia for, when in actual fact they don't, and I know that for a fact because the second it happens they complain again. It's like those people who moaned about the removal of TP and the "skill" of managing it.

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Except they were just Health Sponges. The issue with the "well Eureka" argument is that it cleverly ignores the implementation outside it's hp and dmg increase. The mobs were still just trash mobs with no interesting mechanics with the majority generally having pure auto attacks with the occasional small AoE cast that had no real impact. People want things done right and not the philosophy of throw things to the wall to see what sticks.

I'll admit the nostalgia bit is true to an extent but it's more an issue of the devs failing to do anything interesting with their static diorama of a world. It offers nothing in the grand scheme of things and only reinforces that want of the years where MMOs had you navigate the world with friends cause of the inherent dangers I'll admit some of the designs of back then won't work here but XIV has done nothing to make it's own world feel alive with modern game design.


As for the Endgame issue, I feel XIV has peaked in it's design and will play it safe as adding more would mean adjusting the iLvl system and revamping progression that has been tied to Savage and Tomestones. With a lack of stat depth the amount of revamping would be ARR levels of change that would be better off making another MMO. Honestly at this point treat it like a Single Player game.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

Except they were just Health Sponges. The issue with the "well Eureka" argument is that it cleverly ignores the implementation outside it's hp and dmg increase. The mobs we still just trash mobs with no interesting mechanics why the majority generally having pure auto attacks with the occasional small AoE cast that had no real impact. People want things done right and not the philosophy of throw things to the wall to see what sticks.

I'll admit the nostalgia bit is true to an extent but it's more an issue of the devs failing to do anything interesting with their static diorama of a world. It offers nothing in the grand scheme of things and only reinforces that went if the years where MMOs had you navigate the world with friends cause of the inherent dangers I'll admit some of the design of back then won't work here but XIV has done nothing to make it's own world feel alive with modern game design.


As for the Endgame issue, I feel XIV has peaked in it's design and will play it safe as adding more would mean adjusting the iLvl system and getting progression that has been tied to Savage and Tomestones. With a lack of stat depth the amount of revamping would be ARR levels of change that would be better off making another MMO. Honestly at this point treat it like a Single Player game.

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This was well articulated. Looking forward to the next iteration

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

not get that the caps are what lead to the feel of having to just log on to do X to stay current that creates the job like feel, and feeling of being punished for taking a break that many don't want in MMOs.

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But why do you need to stay current if you want to take a break? If you want to take a break, then you know you will fall behind, but it doesn't matter because the next tier will get all new items or if you only took a short break, you'll have plenty of time to get what you need.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

This was well articulated. Looking forward to the next iteration

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If only I bothered to spell check on Mobile. Hate that it doesn't let you edit it you're not on Desktop view.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If you came into this thread asking for more open world content or Eureka to be more in-depth beyond zerging down NMs, you'd find a large amount of people support that same idea. Instead, you came in profusing how Savage is too easy despite having never even attempted it. You lose the high ground doing that since a lot of people like instanced content. I, for one, don't really care if the open world became livelier. Why? Because it'd be content isolated to only my server in lieu of something like a better built Eureka where the whole DC can constantly queue. While my dislike of Eureka is well known (not on this account), I do think it has potential if they focus on the wealth of feedback provided. Mayhaps you also find BA too scripted but that was probably the best piece of content they added in Stormblood—second only to Ultimate.

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I could take a week off from work right and record myself on youtube beating all of the savage content you speak of just to prove a point. Then after i do that where the hell would that leave the point that you are attempting to make? And for the record...my focus had nothing to do with savage being to easy...go back and read everyone of my responses on this thread from the beginning.... what im asking for MORE diversified end content. I could give a **** about instanced savage content. If they fixed eureka and make end game diverse i wouldnt be on this forum on the 1st place. Hence my 129 posts over nearly 10 years.....

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Fun fact, you can create your own parties and set your own, less strict item level requirements. Mind blowing I know, you can thank me later.

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Fun fact, players with higher item level in most instances would rather join the party that's more geared.

Partys with lower item level's are the last to fill when majority of raiders have some gear behind them.

Appreciate the sarcasm though. Great contribution.

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Originally Posted by Noodle_Trinidad

Except they were just Health Sponges. The issue with the "well Eureka" argument is that it cleverly ignores the implementation outside it's hp and dmg increase. The mobs were still just trash mobs with no interesting mechanics with the majority generally having pure auto attacks with the occasional small AoE cast that had no real impact. People want things done right and not the philosophy of throw things to the wall to see what sticks.

I'll admit the nostalgia bit is true to an extent but it's more an issue of the devs failing to do anything interesting with their static diorama of a world. It offers nothing in the grand scheme of things and only reinforces that want of the years where MMOs had you navigate the world with friends cause of the inherent dangers I'll admit some of the designs of back then won't work here but XIV has done nothing to make it's own world feel alive with modern game design.


As for the Endgame issue, I feel XIV has peaked in it's design and will play it safe as adding more would mean adjusting the iLvl system and revamping progression that has been tied to Savage and Tomestones. With a lack of stat depth the amount of revamping would be ARR levels of change that would be better off making another MMO. Honestly at this point treat it like a Single Player game.

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They literally can't make anything in the "casual" part of the game too difficult or there will be hell on with that portion of the player base. That's something people need to just start accepting. We can't have every overworld zone be as dangerous as what Pagos was, otherwise you just wouldn't get anything done in the short amount of time most people have to play these days, and that's the kicker here, it's 2019, not 2009.

Most people who played during the golden age of MMOs are now adults with work and social lives, we just don't have time to get home on an evening and spend an hour traversing the dangerous overworld to get to a dungeon, manually form a party, and then complete said dungeon. That's why XIV is designed the way it is, so you can log on, do something, and log off while still feeling like you accomplished something in that short amount of time. People need to accept that the time of spending 12 hours to beat a world boss is now a thing of the past, and will be for the foreseeable future.

The MMO market is niche at best these days, with very few new players being of the age most of us were when we first picked up Everquest/WoW/otherMMO, so everything has to be as accessible as possible.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I pugged Sigma and Alpha from time to time last tier and never had an issue joining parties despite my tanks only having tome or Ivalice gear. Hell, I took my BRD in full i380 crafted. Perhaps Elemental is different, though I think you're just making excuses since Aether is supposedly the "toxic, elitist" DC.

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I'm not making excuses, just speaking to my experience.

It doesn't help being an Australian on a Japanese server.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

It doesn't help being an Australian on a Japanese server.

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They really should add data centers in that region of the world.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

I'm not making excuses, just speaking to my experience.

It doesn't help being an Australian on a Japanese server.

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You're literally making excuses.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

They literally can't make anything in the "casual" part of the game too difficult or there will be hell on with that portion of the player base. That's something people need to just start accepting. We can't have every overworld zone be as dangerous as what Pagos was, otherwise you just wouldn't get anything done in the short amount of time most people have to play these days, and that's the kicker here, it's 2019, not 2009.

Most people who played during the golden age of MMOs are now adults with work and social lives, we just don't have time to get home on an evening and spend an hour traversing the dangerous overworld to get to a dungeon, manually form a party, and then complete said dungeon. That's why XIV is designed the way it is, so you can log on, do something, and log off while still feeling like you accomplished something in that short amount of time. People need to accept that the time of spending 12 hours to beat a world boss is now a thing of the past, and will be for the foreseeable future.

The MMO market is niche at best these days, with very few new players being of the age most of us were when we first picked up Everquest/WoW/otherMMO, so everything has to be as accessible as possible.

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Which I understand but I also understand the game has lifted so much off modern WoW that it's design is as Sterile as it can be. It's done nothing interesting in it's game design to even make the drop in/drop out nature interesting and continually plays it safe. The game is inherently flawed in of itself as adding anything more would disrupt it's progression to an insane degree given how gear and stats are designed.

Just because a game is meant to be casual doesn't mean the design should be safe or utterly limited like FFXIV. Hell Warframe is a game as heavily instanced and casual as ours but has a design that leaves a lot open to those willing to put time without hurting the more casual player thru massive player freedom. It definitely has it flaws like any game does but it at least tries to work with what it's stuck in to try and make things more interesting rather than being a carbon copy with a skin. Honestly were it not for Soken's great music and the good story 2.0 would have probably met the same fate of 1.0 and personally speaking as a Palamecian player that has seen 1.0 to 5.0 at this point this game would have been better off as a episodic single player game with the same level of freedom given to Soken as it's done nothing to shake up the WoW formula.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

People keep asking for a stronger and more dangerous overworld, and then the HP sponges of Heavensward happened and everyone complained that things took too long to kill. Then they complained again wanting a stronger and more punishing overworld, Eureka happened, with its varying aggro mechanics and densely populated areas. Guess what, that wasn't fun either.

People keep claiming to want these things that they hold such nostalgia for, when in actual fact they don't, and I know that for a fact because the second it happens they complain again. It's like those people who moaned about the removal of TP and the "skill" of managing it.

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If you think Eureka was like the "old days" then you don't know what it was like back then.

Eureka was a shitfest, and not because of the difficulty. But because of how poorly designed it was. And that's just another proof that the game designer of FFXIV got absolutely no clue as to how design content for a MMO.

What was the fun in the fate train, when people zerg a NM, dying, raising and going back to it until it dies? Or when people were just afk Netflix waiting for the fight to be other?
Wasn't there something, ANYTHING, outside of FATE farming to make Eureka more fun?

It would have took so little to make it good : Daily quests, hunting contracts, group quest, world boss... And yet... More FATE farming? Even after the diadem fiasco?

WoW made FATE (aka world quest) better than in FFXIV, and yet wow players still hate them. Why are FFXIV's devs acting like it's the best thing ever?


Eureka wasn't like an old MMO. It looks like it was made by someone who wanted to create something like an old MMO, without having ever played one. It put the worst of them without giving what made them good in the first place.

What was fun before was the sense of community, the fact that you had to work with friends, guild and, sometimes, strangers, to attain a far away goal. No one who played those games have fond memories of the long, tedious farm that it took to get that one piece of gear. But everyone remember that every member of the guild worked together with them to get that piece.

An old MMO is a delicate balance between hard work, teamwork, and reward. Eureka is nothing like that.


I heard that they are reworking the Diadem yet again. I'm not holding my breath on this one. If it's yet another fate farming shit, I'll just go play something else.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If you came into this thread asking for more open world content or Eureka to be more in-depth beyond zerging down NMs, you'd find a large amount of people support that same idea. Instead, you came in profusing how Savage is too easy despite having never even attempted it. You lose the high ground doing that since a lot of people like instanced content. I, for one, don't really care if the open world became livelier. Why? Because it'd be content isolated to only my server in lieu of something like a better built Eureka where the whole DC can constantly queue. While my dislike of Eureka is well known (not on this account), I do think it has potential if they focus on the wealth of feedback provided. Mayhaps you also find BA too scripted but that was probably the best piece of content they added in Stormblood—second only to Ultimate.

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You may want to reread his post again. The one you quote didn't even had the word "savage" in it. It just ask for more open world content and more danger outside...




EDIT : And why is this forum still like something that came out of the 2000's with all this character limitation? 2020 is right around the corner, maybe it's time to do something about it?

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

You're literally making excuses.

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Australians are a minority group, split between US servers and JP servers.

The majority on those servers are still Japanese players with JP only mentality.

Finding a group under party finder with these conditions when returning mid patch in Stormblood, was extremely difficult.

Excuses can be valid.

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Originally Posted by linay

They really should add data centers in that region of the world.

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I know. They advertise the game quite heavily here...

I've seen Shadowbringers and Stormblood advertised on buses, bustops, billboards etc.

Yet it seems a little.. misleading, given how we didn't get our own server and had to pay in Euros for the subscription for a very long time (A currency which does not favour the Australian dollar.)

I wonder how many people would purchase the game if there was a ping desclaimer.

FFXIV developers thoughts on the matter are - we want to, but the Australian government has our hands tied or something.

They're not very specific with the details unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

People keep asking for a stronger and more dangerous overworld, and then the HP sponges of Heavensward happened and everyone complained that things took too long to kill. Then they complained again wanting a stronger and more punishing overworld, Eureka happened, with its varying aggro mechanics and densely populated areas. Guess what, that wasn't fun either.

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Eureka sum up all the negative of old MMO and amplify it, I doubt if Relic is not tide to it, it would not last more than a few patches

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

snip

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I used Eureka in the context of those who wish for a more old school overworld design, where it is dangerous and there are penalties for dying, and you have to work together to achieve a common goal. I've never defended the content design itself or claimed that it is a 1:1 copy of older MMOs, so back off with the attack OK?

It was not fun to tiptoe around mobs for 20 levels, avoiding sight aggro, sound aggro, blood aggro, etc, while you made your way to wherever it is you were going. It was just tedious and felt like a waste of time. The punishments were an annoying inconvenience. People ask for these kinds of things to apply to our normal overworld all the time, because it isn't immersive or challenging enough, and I say Eureka is that way, have fun, because that kind of overworld in this day and age isn't fun or immersive, it's a boring inconvenience that nobody has the time for.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

I could take a week off from work right and record myself on youtube beating all of the savage content you speak of just to prove a point. Then after i do that where the hell would that leave the point that you are attempting to make? And for the record...my focus had nothing to do with savage being to easy...go back and read everyone of my responses on this thread from the beginning.... what im asking for MORE diversified end content. I could give a **** about instanced savage content. If they fixed eureka and make end game diverse i wouldnt be on this forum on the 1st place. Hence my 129 posts over nearly 10 years.....

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No, however you made a point to specifically mention it. While I certainly won't insinuate Savage is hard, especially now. It rings a little hollow for someone with very little endgame experience decrying how easy everything is at said level.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

You may want to reread his post again. The one you quote didn't even had the word "savage" in it. It just ask for more open world content and more danger outside...

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I quoted that particular post because it was the most recent. If you go back earlier, Savage is mentioned and dismissed.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

I used Eureka in the context of those who wish for a more old school overworld design, where it is dangerous and there are penalties for dying, and you have to work together to achieve a common goal. I've never defended the content design itself or claimed that it is a 1:1 copy of older MMOs, so back off with the attack OK?

It was not fun to tiptoe around mobs for 20 levels, avoiding sight aggro, sound aggro, blood aggro, etc, while you made your way to wherever it is you were going. It was just tedious and felt like a waste of time. The punishments were an annoying inconvenience. People ask for these kinds of things to apply to our normal overworld all the time, because it isn't immersive or challenging enough, and I say Eureka is that way, have fun, because that kind of overworld in this day and age isn't fun or immersive, it's a boring inconvenience that nobody has the time for.

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It sort of falls in line with people citing cross world PF or DF as a whole ruining the community feel. While, to an extent, yes, people aren't as connected to their servers as they were years ago. It is immensely more convenient and practical to have a feature where I can queue at any hour of the day and generally get through the content provided it isn't something obscure. A decade or so ago, if you happened to play after prime time hours... well, good luck finding people to do anything with.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

I used Eureka in the context of those who wish for a more old school overworld design, where it is dangerous and there are penalties for dying, and you have to work together to achieve a common goal. I've never defended the content design itself or claimed that it is a 1:1 copy of older MMOs, so back off with the attack OK?

It was not fun to tiptoe around mobs for 20 levels, avoiding sight aggro, sound aggro, blood aggro, etc, while you made your way to wherever it is you were going. It was just tedious and felt like a waste of time. The punishments were an annoying inconvenience. People ask for these kinds of things to apply to our normal overworld all the time, because it isn't immersive or challenging enough, and I say Eureka is that way, have fun, because that kind of overworld in this day and age isn't fun or immersive, it's a boring inconvenience that nobody has the time for.

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You didn't tell that it was a 1:1 copy, but still heavily implied it.

People ask for this kind of thing, but of course they will complain if the reward is not worth the difficulty. Punishment were an inconvenience to you, but it would have bren good restriction if, again, the hassle was worth it.
Eureka is simply not a good exemple of what was an old MMO. No one asked for this mess. Of course there will be a backlash if something that is not fun is released.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I quoted that particular post because it was the most recent. If you go back earlier, Savage is mentioned and dismissed.

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Fine then. But it would have been better to quote the post you wanted to answer to in order to avoid confusing your reader.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

No, however you made a point to specifically mention it. While I certainly won't insinuate Savage is hard, especially now. It rings a little hollow for someone with very little endgame experience decrying how easy everything is at said level.



I quoted that particular post because it was the most recent. If you go back earlier, Savage is mentioned and dismissed.



It sort of falls in line with people citing cross world PF or DF as a whole ruining the community feel. While, to an extent, yes, people aren't as connected to their servers as they were years ago. It is immensely more convenient and practical to have a feature where I can queue at any hour of the day and generally get through the content provided it isn't something obscure. A decade or so ago, if you happened to play after prime time hours... well, good luck finding people to do anything with.

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I did all the MUCH harder endgame content way before classes were homogenized that originally dropped for this game up until coils... do me a favor and please dont insult my intelligence with empty abc123 search logic...id almost go out of my way to to prove how frivolous your point is and make example out of you. If you dont have a legacy tattoo miss me with the bs please.....

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

With all due respect..savage isnt that complicated. People make time for what they want. The only time consuming part of savage is learning once you know what you are doing its repetition...lets not forget the fights in this game are scripted its just memory and application.

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not only is this wrong, but it has nothing to do with what you quoted from me.

my point was about people thinking the tomestone grind is tedious w/o questioning why they are grinding tomestones in the first place. The truth is, you dont need to grind tomestones. Literally everything drops tomestones. If you're not actively trying to clear Savage, you dont need your tomestone gear ASAP, and you dont need to cap 450 times a week, and you dont need to grind.

unless you want full tomestone gear to just..wait for next patch cycle and...do the tomestone cap again. If youre not doing extremes/savage you dont really need the latest tomestone gear.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

I did all the MUCH harder endgame content way before classes were homogenized that originally dropped for this game up until coils... do me a favor and please dont insult my intelligence with empty abc123 search logic...id almost go out of my way to to prove how frivolous your point is and make example out of you. If you dont have a legacy tattoo miss me with the bs please.....

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Which much harder content was this?

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

I could take a week off from work right and record myself on youtube beating all of the savage content you speak of just to prove a point. Then after i do that where the hell would that leave the point that you are attempting to make? And for the record...my focus had nothing to do with savage being to easy...go back and read everyone of my responses on this thread from the beginning.... what im asking for MORE diversified end content. I could give a **** about instanced savage content. If they fixed eureka and make end game diverse i wouldnt be on this forum on the 1st place. Hence my 129 posts over nearly 10 years.....

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I can tell you from experience that they will just tell you it still doesn't prove anything because then you'll still have to beat both Ultimates. Then if you do that, they'll probably tell you this game just isn't made for you. Don't waste your time, it's pointless to try to prove your point to them through clearing these things. They will never admit that endgame could use improvement.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

If youre not doing extremes/savage you dont really need the latest tomestone gear.

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People playing games are rarely motivated primarily by what they need. They're motivated by what they want. The game itself is optional, after all. They could be doing other things with their time.

So many players want the tomestone gear because the increase in stats makes it easier for them to complete the other content they are doing even though lower ilvl gear is sufficient. Until the player can one shot everything in their preferred content, getting upgrades will remain relevant if still optional. It's up to the individual to decide if the grind to get the upgrades is worth the hassle for the benefit they see.

I just wish those who choose to pursue the grind for whatever reason would stop complaining about it. They made the choice to do it when they easily could have chosen to do something else instead. If it's that lacking in fun, why do it?

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Which much harder content was this?

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Since he made the snarky comment about the legacy mark, I'm guessing Rivenroad (Hard). That said, his complaints about lack of endgame content while ignoring current endgame opportunities kind of makes his argument fall flat in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by linay

Would a level 80 player be running the same instance of Aurum Vale as a level 49 player? If so, then you're just advocating for level sync to not remove your abilities, and there's one or more threads dedicated to that discussion. If not, then you're asking to segregate the player base, and that's just not how dungeons work in FFXIV's endgame where they want you to play with lower level players.

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I specifically talked about content being scaled up for lvl 80 players, and yet here you are asking a question which clearly shows you didn't even read my comment.

Everything stays the same, but lvl 80 players would get the option to do a dungeon scaled to lvl 80 and/or a separate roulette for it.

Just speaking from an efficiency point of view: for most of the MMORPGs I play you play their huge list of instanced content only once, and after that you're doing the same current endgame instances over and over, while every other instance outside of the endgame ones is instantly obsolete except to farm mounts/glamors/achievement titles etc.

For me that's almost an insulting level of inefficiency.

A good example of the problem (imho): Roulettes aren't end game content. If they would drop relevant gear I would count them as such but not right now. WoW has made it so that they increase the iLvl of the dropped gear from normal/heroic/mythics from time to time so doing them gives you a chance to get some upgrades instead of just accumulating currency to buy that gear. I think the tomestone grind is really one of the weaknesses of FFXIV. At least the expert roulettes should get some relevant drops around you overall iLvl.
I am not capping tomestones anymore, this means I am behind on iLvl but I don't care anymore. It's too much of the same stuff day after day, week after week. Even the new expert roulette dungeons didn't change that since they are more of the same, almost just made for the tomestone grind. They need more ways to earn that gear. Not easier or faster, just different.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Honestly...You have make a valid point....and for some im not sure why it has taken so long to accept the truth..this isnt final fantasy...its casual fantasy. Thank you removing my blind fold

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Yeah, because FF franchise is reputed for its overwhelming difficulty.

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Originally Posted by kartana

Roulettes aren't end game content. If they would drop relevant gear I would count them as such but not right now. WoW has made it so that they increase the iLvl of the dropped gear from normal/heroic/mythics from time to time so doing them gives you a chance to get some upgrades instead of just accumulating currency to buy that gear. I think the tomestone grind is really one of the weaknesses of FFXIV. At least the expert roulettes should get some relevant drops around you overall iLvl.

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They already drop gear. Those gear are usefull for anybody joining the engame late, they are the easiest way to get good enough gear to get the ILV to gain access to raid while grinding low tier tome. The 3 first drop only accessory because you get a free AF for getting lv80 and complete the role quest. They serve the purpose of "you can skip as much tomestone cap as you want/need, you'll alway have a solution to caught up with other fast".

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

That said, his complaints about lack of endgame content while ignoring current endgame opportunities kind of makes his argument fall flat in my eyes.

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Savage is a good time sink if you have a static (I can't stand pug honestly), but outside of that, I don't really see whatever there is to do for battle classes so could you elaborate about what kind of end game opportunities you're thinking?

Outside of the obvious mount/minion farm, of course.

There's ultimate for those who didn't do it of course, but having to go through this horrible lvl sync is a no go for me.

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Originally Posted by kartana

Roulettes aren't end game content. If they would drop relevant gear I would count them as such but not right now.

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You mean... the roulettes that give you tomestones that you can exchange for the highest / second highest item level currently available in the game? How is that not relevant gear? What?


Sigh this is a complicated discussion from my point of view. Each person defines their endgame. I really like trials and dungeons.. and a bunch of other things. Do i want more savage stuff? yes. Am I ok with not having as much as i want to? also yes. Considering i am somewhat terrible at self control when it comes to certain things I am actually glad I don't have the opportunity of dumping every waking moment (that i'm not working that is) throwing myself at difficult fights. I enjoy that there is an end to it and it sort of nudges me to enjoy other things, be it pvping or chocobo racing. I greatly enjoy those things however since they don't directly contribute to seeing my character's stats increasing I tend to not put so much time into them. If I could just do Savage every day, all day long I would probably never touch on other parts of content that i also find fun. Or I would never discover that I actually enjoy the Feast, or Chocobo Racing or Triple Triad, or hunting for glamours, or helping new players, or crafting/gathering or just go "outside" and take screenshots of pretty places and of my character.

I like the fact they try to give a little bit to everyone. yes that does create a problem for people who just like this one thing and it will never enough for them. I think we all lose out more when you have a lot of one thing over having a little of many things. There are things i have tried and i didn't really like them but i still appreciate that they're there. Everyone is different and I see they try to cater to a lot of people but implementing several different things. This is how the game grows. Who knows, if the demand is high enough they will invest in sprinkling a bit more of an already existent type of content which brings me to another point. You need to realize you are, like myself, a minority.

I feel for you OP and people like yourself. It must really suck to have just this one thing you like and feel like it's too little to keep you engaged but on the other hand... is it really healthy to want to stay glued to the game all the time?

I am also a strong supporter of not having 4 savage fights and just 2 extremes. In my opinion there should be more content at the level of (current/relevant) extremes. And I don't care who replies next with the "but I have a job and family and have no issues doing savage". I really don't care because for the majority this super hard to combine so for the most part this also doesn't fit the "end game content" category. I am not saying they shouldn't release savage content, just have more content at the level of extreme stuff. FFXIV currently is mostly brain-dead easy or super time consuming.

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Originally Posted by Schan

You mean... the roulettes that give you tomestones that you can exchange for the highest / second highest item level currently available in the game? How is that not relevant gear? What?

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Did you actually read what you quoted? I don't consider them end-game content because they don't DROP relevant end-game gear and no, doing years old content is not current end-game. Do you really consider doing Stone Vigil through roulettes for the millionth time for Tomestones end-game content?

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

If you're not actively trying to clear Savage, you dont need your tomestone gear ASAP, and you dont need to cap 450 times a week, and you dont need to grind.

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That is the thing I need to remind myself again and again. Why do I even need that if there is nothing there for me to do after I have it. This only speaks to the OP's problem though. The lack of end-game content.... that normal people can do and have the time for and is not so easy that you fall asleep doing it (current 4-man f.e.).

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Since he made the snarky comment about the legacy mark, I'm guessing Rivenroad (Hard). That said, his complaints about lack of endgame content while ignoring current endgame opportunities kind of makes his argument fall flat in my eyes.

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As someone who cleared the normal version of that fight, the 2nd coil version was harder.


1.0 content was only difficult because the servers were a total mess, and also only located in Japan.


Also, the fact that he says savage is scripted and that makes it easy is silly, considering his idea of endgame is open world mobs that are hp sponges with hi attack power. That's not fun or engaging, it's tedious and annoying.

Especially considering people would just make it a zerg anyway if there were rewards. Imagine current hunt farms but on normal mobs... Yeah no Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

Savage is a good time sink if you have a static (I can't stand pug honestly), but outside of that, I don't really see whatever there is to do for battle classes so could you elaborate about what kind of end game opportunities you're thinking?

Outside of the obvious mount/minion farm, of course.

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I already answered earlier in the thread what I do to pass the time. However, for other “endgame opportunities”, there is endgame crafting/gathering to do if one wishes to make money.

I don’t limit my activities to purely endgame content. Which is why I’m never bored. Anyone who comes into this game with limiting their activities to “level 80 content only” is going to run out of stuff to do really quickly.

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There's ultimate for those who didn't do it of course, but having to go through this horrible lvl sync is a no go for me.

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The level sync/item level sync is there to preserve the challenge of the content so that people can’t LOL FACEROLL it like old Savage content. It’s honestly not even that bad.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

As someone who cleared the normal version of that fight, the 2nd coil version was harder.


1.0 content was only difficult because the servers were a total mess, and also only located in Japan.


Also, the fact that he says savage is scripted and that makes it easy is silly, considering his idea of endgame is open world mobs that are hp sponges with hi attack power. That's not fun or engaging, it's tedious and annoying.

Especially considering people would just make it a zerg anyway if there were rewards. Imagine current hunt farms but on normal mobs... Yeah no Thanks.

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I don’t disagree with any of this.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I already answered earlier in the thread what I do to pass the time. However, for other “endgame opportunities”, there is endgame crafting/gathering to do if one wishes to make money.

I don’t limit my activities to purely endgame content. Which is why I’m never bored. Anyone who comes into this game with limiting their activities to “level 80 content only” is going to run out of stuff to do really quickly.

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Which is why I was asking purely for battle class. I have yet to finish leveling my DoH/DoL so there's that, but outside of that there's really little to do if you don't like collecting stuff. Which is kinda sad, I think. But I think the reward system being the main culprit here. It's difficult to design content when you only have 4 relevant substats to give as a reward.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The item level sync is there to preserve the challenge of the content so that people can’t LOL FACEROLL it like old Savage content. It’s honestly not even that bad.

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No, I was talking about how the lvl sync is handled. You have to go back to lvl 70 to do it, and lose all the skills you learned in the process. This is why I don't want to go into ultimate right now (And, to be true, I don't really care about it anyway. But that's still good content).

The item lvl could be at a minimum that I wouldn't really care, though.