A little scared of the future

Don't worry... We'll hold your hand! <3

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Don't worry... We'll hold your hand! <3

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There's too much handholding as it is.

We (and the game) actually need to do the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Yes, there is. If you have poor DPS (and I have seen it), the large floor AOE will expand all the way towards the edge if all four of those dragon head adds aren't dead. You will wipe at that part and have to restart the fight from the beginning.

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I've had multiple groups where DPS were derping and weren't able to kill the dragon heads.

Never wiped once on that part. tank can use CD's and I always use cover on the healer if that happens. Nobody (should) die if they're at full HP, you get vuln debuffs at most, I also pop my wings sometimes but when you have derp DPS's they can't even get into shelter.

Honestly I think the game should get a little more difficult at this point in the expansion, we've been lvl 70 long enough we should know how to play our class.

Stop being bad or quit.

If you don't want to improve, you've already quit.

Surprising. The conversation seems to have now polarized on how to do the burn dungeon. While that wasnt even the point perse. A cause, yes. Aint it best to just let this one be and make a new thread on the burn specifically?

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Originally Posted by Ifrinne

2. I had the tank on the northern edge of the area, a dps at the southeastern edge and one at the southwestern edge of the circle thus i was chanceless of healing them all in time and i had to rely on single target spells at times.

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For this, stand near the DPS (about halfway between each), and catch them with AOE healing while using your oGCD single-target heals on the tank (plus a Regen). I’ve only ever healed this dungeon, and I don’t have any issue catching DPS in Narnia with Aspected Helios, which has a smaller radius than Medica II if I’m remembering the tooltips correctly.

Another option is you can tell them to move in for AOE heals or not get healed at all. People tend to listen when you do this, and, if they don’t, then that’s their own problem. I won’t chase people down on healers that don’t want to be in range for AOE healing/mitigation; and if other healers won’t either, then maybe they’ll learn to move in.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Stop being bad or quit.

If you don't want to improve, you've already quit.

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How toxic. You have zero right to tell people to quit regardless of their level of skill. If someone does NOT want to improve (WHY THOUGH!!) that's really on them and it's not your job to be a jerk about it.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

How toxic. You have zero right to tell people to quit regardless of their level of skill. If someone does NOT want to improve (WHY THOUGH!!) that's really on them and it's not your job to be a jerk about it.

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He's not wrong though. Pity the party of anyone who is not only bad, but makes no effort to get not bad.

Nearly 1800 page thread about DF and reading through them and how bad people are, you wonder how they can be so bad and somehow find joy in this game when they are a burden on every party they encounter.

I never do savage/X stuff ... i only did the poneys during HW and the HW birds during SB ....and Alex1S for the HW relic .
Some things in this game are unnecessarily difficult , like the Stormblood quest ( shinryu ) or the 4.3 primal , in fact even 1 year after you are almost sure to fail the first try if you have Susano in the trial roulette ....

But these threads have to stop , the burn IS NOT hard at all ... it has the same difficulty than Aurum Vale / The Vault , and the mog dungeon in HW -i forgot the name .
Even the previous expert roulette , with The Swallow's Compass was harder than this one , during 4.3 i got my tomestones in Eureka / Hunts / HoH to don't have to bother with it .

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Originally Posted by KittyPr

I never do savage/X stuff ... i only did the poneys during HW and the HW birds during SB ....and Alex1S for the HW relic .
Some things in this game are unnecessarily difficult , like the Stormblood quest ( shinryu ) or the 4.3 primal , in fact even 1 year after you are almost sure to fail the first try if you have Susano in the trial roulette ....

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Shinryu and Tsukuyomi aren’t difficult; they just require people to use their brain. Something the game has done very little of up until Shinryu.

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But these threads have to stop , the burn IS NOT hard at all ... it has the same difficulty than Aurum Vale / The Vault , and the mog dungeon in HW -i forgot the name .

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The Burn isn’t a difficult dungeon. I’d say it’s easier than AV and The Vault. And definitely easier than Sohr Khai.

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Even the previous expert roulette , with The Swallow's Compass was harder than this one , during 4.3 i got my tomestones in Eureka / Hunts / HoH to don't have to bother with it .

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Swallow’s Compass is the easiest Expert Roulette dungeon to date. When you can do the entire thing and not even heal... there’s a problem.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

How toxic. You have zero right to tell people to quit regardless of their level of skill. If someone does NOT want to improve (WHY THOUGH!!) that's really on them and it's not your job to be a jerk about it.

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Well it's not your job to carry them, either. If people can't keep up and don't listen to feedback, "hit the pavement" seems like the right approach.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Well it's not your job to carry them, either. If people can't keep up and don't listen to feedback, "hit the pavement" seems like the right approach.

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Fair enough but telling other players to quit the game or that the games only for people who are "good" is arrogant, toxic, and disgusts me. You have no obligation to carry other players in the game but insisting others QUIT entirely is the kind of behavior which destroyed WoW's community.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

He's not wrong though. Pity the party of anyone who is not only bad, but makes no effort to get not bad.

Nearly 1800 page thread about DF and reading through them and how bad people are, you wonder how they can be so bad and somehow find joy in this game when they are a burden on every party they encounter.

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Doesn't give anyone the right to tell other people they can't play a game they enjoy.

I'm still not high fiving SE yet.. cause I still believe it's just gear. I don't think mist dragon is anything speical at all. Once people get gear this dungeon like all the other ones wil be a joke and people will be bored again. Yes I'm jaded but for right now I see no reason not to be. This is why I'm waiting. I won't high five SE unless it still kills you and is just as hard once we're full 409 or whatever. Until then I'm withholding my judgement. With that being said, I've seen people die to some insane shit in this game. I seen a wipe on floor ONE in deep dungeon.. yes floor ONE! I seen a group wipe 3 times in the first dungeon. Yes. This happened. So I dunno. I get that alot of people think this game is piss poor easy, but I seen both sides and I think it's in a fine place. What we really should be asking is NOT for harder dungeons cause it isn't happening. We need to stop GEAR creep. THAT I believe is the issue. Stop that.. you stop baby mode.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Yes, there is. If you have poor DPS (and I have seen it), the large floor AOE will expand all the way towards the edge if all four of those dragon head adds aren't dead. You will wipe at that part and have to restart the fight from the beginning.

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I've said it to someone else in this thread but that's no DPS check.

I've survived that part multiple times with derp DPS. I pop CD's and use cover on healer, we get heavy damage and vuln debuffs but it's not hard to recover from.

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Originally Posted by ko_

I'm still not high fiving SE yet.. cause I still believe it's just gear. I don't think mist dragon is anything speical at all. Once people get gear this dungeon like all the other ones wil be a joke and people will be bored again. Yes I'm jaded but for right now I see no reason not to be. This is why I'm waiting. I won't high five SE unless it still kills you and is just as hard once we're full 409 or whatever. Until then I'm withholding my judgement. With that being said, I've seen people die to some insane shit in this game. I seen a wipe on floor ONE in deep dungeon.. yes floor ONE! I seen a group wipe 3 times in the first dungeon. Yes. This happened. So I dunno. I get that alot of people think this game is piss poor easy, but I seen both sides and I think it's in a fine place. What we really should be asking is NOT for harder dungeons cause it isn't happening. We need to stop GEAR creep. THAT I believe is the issue. Stop that.. you stop baby mode.

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How about boss mechanics deal damage in % instead of flat out damage.

So that you loose say 80% from a certain hit at lvl 70 but still loose 80% at lvl 80 for example. And a higher sync rate so you can't face roll it with higher Ilvl?

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

How about boss mechanics deal damage in % instead of flat out damage.

So that you loose say 80% from a certain hit at lvl 70 but still loose 80% at lvl 80 for example. And a higher sync rate so you can't face roll it with higher Ilvl?

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Gear exists for a reason, including "Better" and higher item level gear. If they did that, why have item levels at all? why not just use one set of gear forever? People are SUPPOSED to out gear content eventually.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

I've said it to someone else in this thread but that's no DPS check.

I've survived that part multiple times with derp DPS. I pop CD's and use cover on healer, we get heavy damage and vuln debuffs but it's not hard to recover from.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

I've had multiple groups where DPS were derping and weren't able to kill the dragon heads.

Never wiped once on that part. tank can use CD's and I always use cover on the healer if that happens. Nobody (should) die if they're at full HP, you get vuln debuffs at most, I also pop my wings sometimes but when you have derp DPS's they can't even get into shelter.

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Saying that there's no DPS check just because you've had capable parties and anecdotal evidence to prove to yourself it's not does not nor will it ever exclude the fact that it is a DPS check and it is ruled as one by the majority.

Anyone can see plain as day that the adds need to be DPS'd down as fast as possible or you're going to suffer for no reason other than party incompetence.


Sorry, but you're on the losing side of the fence here.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Gear exists for a reason, including "Better" and higher item level gear. If they did that, why have item levels at all? why not just use one set of gear forever? People are SUPPOSED to out gear content eventually.

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Yes this is true.. but the issue I think we have is we're getting into NEW content already overpowered. There's no reason a dungeon should give useless gear that's 40 points BELOW what we are currently wearing if you even casually play this game. We get spoiled with gear too fast. THAT is why this game is piss poor easy I believe. Or atleast it's a huge reason why. Why are we getting 355 gear when the normal player is like 360 atleast?

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Doesn't give anyone the right to tell other people they can't play a game they enjoy.

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They can do so at someone else's expense. Not mine.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

If you made it through The Vault as a healer then the burn shouldn't really be something to concern yourself with. It's certainly a bit harder than the other dungeons we've seen lately but every expansion has a few dungeons that are a bit tougher. You'll be okay.

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Well the vault is nerfed so hard now that you can even do that when you sleep, but i don't really understand the issues people have and had in the burn or the vault.
Is it a bit more challenging? Yes. Is it to hard? Hell no!

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Saying that there's no DPS check just because you've had capable parties and anecdotal evidence to prove to yourself it's not does not nor will it ever exclude the fact that it is a DPS check and it is ruled as one by the majority.

Anyone can see plain as day that the adds need to be DPS'd down as fast as possible or you're going to suffer for no reason other than party incompetence.


Sorry, but you're on the losing side of the fence here.

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I actually wrote enrage first and the changed that in DPS check, but then that sentence didn't made sense anymore.

Good thing I don't play healer, I feel sorry for the healers sometimes, especially if my DPS friends aren't joining the roulette.

No need to be sorry, my dude.
Nothing wrong with correcting.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

They can do so at someone else's expense. Not mine.

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The "You don't pay my sub" arguement works both ways tbh.

"Neither do you pay mine, so why should I have to deal with your ****?"

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Originally Posted by Kresus

The "You don't pay my sub" arguement works both ways tbh.

"Neither do you pay mine, so why should I have to deal with your ****?"

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Wish i could like this post a thousand times.

Its funny how people always come up with "you don't pay my sub" when someone is calling them out for beeing lazy. Seems they don't understand that they are not the only ones who pay to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

They can do so at someone else's expense. Not mine.

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Then don't pug. and don't queue with such people. You'll NEVER have the right to insist they dont play. ever.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Then don't pug. and don't queue with such people. You'll NEVER have the right to insist they dont play. ever.

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I have to agree with this if you hate randoms so much why even pug? If they put themselves out there then they are the only ones to blame if they meet others not on their own skill level.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Fair enough but telling other players to quit the game or that the games only for people who are "good" is arrogant, toxic, and disgusts me. You have no obligation to carry other players in the game but insisting others QUIT entirely is the kind of behavior which destroyed WoW's community.

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Sylvina-san. You read, but you fail to comprehend.

If someone no longer wants to improve, they have already quit.

I stroke my magnificent silky white goatee.

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Originally Posted by Kresus

The "You don't pay my sub" arguement works both ways tbh.

"Neither do you pay mine, so why should I have to deal with your ****?"

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Hmm.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Then don't pug. and don't queue with such people. You'll NEVER have the right to insist they dont play. ever.

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You don't pay my sub.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

I have to agree with this if you hate randoms so much why even pug? If they put themselves out there then they are the only ones to blame if they meet others not on their own skill level.

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You, also, don't pay my sub. The simple fact of the matter is it's not worth doing a PF for a daily -- merely bring a friend along (which you should do anyway to queueboost a dps buddy) so you can fix any vote kicks, and you then have the authority to weed out whomever you wish for whatever reason you wish -- as long as it's covered by "playstyle differences."

I suppose you could go on a grand crusade where you kick anyone that is even moderately critical of the performance of the party, but pfft-- nobody's gonna do that. Let alone go along with a kooky desire to kick the players telling the icemage they can do better post-Stormblood. If anything at all came of it, you'd get booted for being a busybody by a votefixing duo.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Well the vault is nerfed so hard now that you can even do that when you sleep, but i don't really understand the issues people have and had in the burn or the vault.
Is it a bit more challenging? Yes. Is it to hard? Hell no!

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The common thread between the two dungeons is terrible healers have an especially bad time, which is only compounded when other roles don't know their buttons. This is perfectly fine, as anyone able to even make it to either dungeon has had more than enough time to read their tooltips.

There's a minor excuse to be had with skips in the vault (though they should be kicked so they can read their tooltips), but even that flimsy justification just doesn't apply to the Burn.

Simply put, any healer that can't heal through the Burn needs to be sent back to Bardham's Mettle, Doma Castle, Ala Mhigo, and Castrum for remedial lessons. Other roles can pick up some things from those dungeons, as well, but the healer in particular has things to learn in each of those. This includes people that afk leveled through HOH or lower level roulettes; if you level something to 70 and didn't bother to learn anything as you went, or perhaps alt-geared it to get past the ilvl gate, I'll relish a vote in favor of kicking you if you don't perform the baseline in anything gated post-stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

You have no obligation to carry other players in the game but insisting others QUIT entirely is the kind of behavior which destroyed WoW's community.

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And incessant mollycoddling of players four patches into Stormblood that haven't learned even the basics they were expected to know before they even hit Praetorium have done an awful lot to make this particular brand of toxicity (as quoted) insufferable in the equal and opposite way. I don't expect the icemage to hit Savage-tier damage in the Burn, I expect -- and by fixed votekick, demand -- them to have a baseline degree of competence with their class.

They are free to play how they like by themselves in solo content, even icemage. Just not with players in post-Stormblood content. If players expect me to tolerate them in post-Stormblood content when they can't be bothered to even read their tooltips, I genuinely positively absolutely seriously beg them to uninstall. Because they quit a long time ago, ignored a hundred lessons along the way, have no fire to improve, and it's unhealthy for them to continue playing; not to mention unhealthy for the community as a whole to tolerate such indifference to three other peoples' time.

If they, instead, would ask me for any sort of guidance outside of said content I will bend over backwards, to my limited ability, to offer guidance. But if they show up in the Burn wholly unprepared, they need to hit the pavement.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Yes, there is. If you have poor DPS (and I have seen it), the large floor AOE will expand all the way towards the edge if all four of those dragon head adds aren't dead. You will wipe at that part and have to restart the fight from the beginning.

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Isn't this more of an AFK check?

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Saying that there's no DPS check just because you've had capable parties and anecdotal evidence to prove to yourself it's not does not nor will it ever exclude the fact that it is a DPS check and it is ruled as one by the majority.

Anyone can see plain as day that the adds need to be DPS'd down as fast as possible or you're going to suffer for no reason other than party incompetence.


Sorry, but you're on the losing side of the fence here.

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By that logic everything in this game is a DPS check, if you pull the first pack in any dungeon and just stand there not pressing buttons you'll eventually die

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

I have to agree with this if you hate randoms so much why even pug? If they put themselves out there then they are the only ones to blame if they meet others not on their own skill level.

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There is a difference between someone not being on your own skill level in a dungeon - and someone in an endgame dungeon/scenario not being able to perform basics of both their job and general gameplay. Those basics are something that you should reasonably expect, because you should be able to expect that someone contributes to the run in a meanigful way - otherwise you should be okay with your tank just going afk at the entrance of the dungeon, after all, if you didnt want to play with someone whos afk, you should have brought a full party!

I will never understand why people are okay and even defending absolute subpar gameplay.
In a dungeon it wont bother me the slightest if a ninja isnt capable of keeping trick attack up - but if they're just standing in a bossroom and spamming their AoE because they like the animation and they dont want to press more than one button, thats a problem.
If a BLM cant cast triple-Flare - so what? But if a BLM hasnt figured out that his fire-spells are the important ones by level 70... nope.
...the list could go on - DoTs for bard, smn and scholar; actually tanking mobs for pld, war and drk; keeping everyone alive while still contributing damage for ast, scholar and whm...

Luckly, those bad eggs are rare - because, again, we're not talking about perfect gameplay here, we're talking about a kind of person who didnt learn a thing in 70 levels, is now a libality to 3/7/23 other people and acts defensive when given advice or called out on it. Such a person doesnt need to be defended, they backed themself into that corner and they can step out of it anytime they want.

I dont hate randoms, most of the time, I dont even really notice that they're there. We hop in our dungeon, do our things, we get out. Because most of the time everyone is capable in a way that can be expected at level 70.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Then don't pug. and don't queue with such people. You'll NEVER have the right to insist they dont play. ever.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

I have to agree with this if you hate randoms so much why even pug? If they put themselves out there then they are the only ones to blame if they meet others not on their own skill level.

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So it is fine for people to waste other peoples time with beeing lazy, but it is not ok to tell them that they are wasting my time? What kind of weird logic is this? We all pay a sub in this game so we all should be that polite that we don't waste other peoples time with beeing lazy.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

The common thread between the two dungeons is terrible healers have an especially bad time, which is only compounded when other roles don't know their buttons. This is perfectly fine, as anyone able to even make it to either dungeon has had more than enough time to read their tooltips.

There's a minor excuse to be had with skips in the vault (though they should be kicked so they can read their tooltips), but even that flimsy justification just doesn't apply to the Burn.

Simply put, any healer that can't heal through the Burn needs to be sent back to Bardham's Mettle, Doma Castle, Ala Mhigo, and Castrum for remedial lessons. Other roles can pick up some things from those dungeons, as well, but the healer in particular has things to learn in each of those. This includes people that afk leveled through HOH or lower level roulettes; if you level something to 70 and didn't bother to learn anything as you went, or perhaps alt-geared it to get past the ilvl gate, I'll relish a vote in favor of kicking you if you don't perform the baseline in anything gated post-stormblood.

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The problem here is that (was also posted in this very thread somewhere I think) healers need to cast Medica, Medica II AND Assize, "all AoE heals they have", or however it was phrased. And that, unfortunately, seems to be too much for them.

It is so weird that like 90% of the time, it's always the healers that complain that the content is getting too hard. At the same time they rarely use more than 50% of their healing spells or buffs. And if something requires more than pressing Cure or Medica II here and there, it is hard content and must be nerfed.

I am so very sick and tired of healers not using their abilities. I already stopped complaining about them not dpsing at all. I just wished they could at least heal somewhat decently. A healer that doesn't dps already has the easiest role in the party BY FAR. Yes, there are also DPS that only use a fraction of their abilities. But most of them press most at least, not just in the right order or too slow. But there are so, so, sooo many healers that use like 5 of their 30+ actions.

I also haven't seen Tanks or DPS complain about the difficulty of The Burn (or The Vault, Bardam's Mettle etc. in the past) yet, only healers. If they would put in a minimum of effort, they wouldn't think that The Burn is hard. Because it isn't. You just can't afk there. That's a difference. And if a DPS messes up and gets hit, it will hurt a little more than in other dungeons, just like with The Vault when it was new. But that doesn't make it oh so hard if you press more than 1 button every 10 seconds.

The question is, what can be done here? How can we make lazy healers at least not be so terrible at healing? They say they signed up to heal and do nothing else, but they don't even do that right. But maybe I'm just salty because I've seen that way too often recently.

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Originally Posted by TalonAnchors

Isn't this more of an AFK check?

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No, it's a DPS check and if you're not killing the heads fast enough and allowing your party (specifically your healer) to have to deal with extra vulnerabilities for no other reason than that your DPS is incompetent, then yes, your DPS sucks and you failed it.

It's that simple.

You just made your healer work twice as hard because you thought taking the vulnerabilities from the dragon heads and ignoring them was a good idea. I feel sorry for the poor healers who have to deal with that nonsense....even more so when the DPS consistently keep getting frozen too.

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By that logic everything in this game is a DPS check, if you pull the first pack in any dungeon and just stand there not pressing buttons you'll eventually die

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Nice strawman, but you should know better that's not how it works. I shouldn't have to hand hold and explain basic elements of the game and what does or does not qualify as a DPS check to people.

Come on. Use your head.

How easy do people want this freaking game? They might as well just add an auto win button for all the lazy people that don't want to try and think every little stressful or hard bit that comes up is unfair or whatever get a grip people.....This game needs to get HARDER not easier why do people want to brainlessly go through content?

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

No, it's a DPS check and if you're not killing the heads fast enough and allowing your party (specifically your healer) to have to deal with extra vulnerabilities for no other reason than that your DPS is incompetent, then yes, your DPS sucks and you failed it.

It's that simple.

You just made your healer work twice as hard because you thought taking the vulnerabilities from the dragon heads and ignoring them was a good idea. I feel sorry for the poor healers who have to deal with that nonsense....even more so when the DPS consistently keep getting frozen too.



Nice strawman, but you should know better that's not how it works. I shouldn't have to hand hold and explain basic elements of the game and what does or does not qualify as a DPS check to people.

Come on. Use your head.

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Yeah. A DPS check is only a dps check if there's a time limit on it.

Pulling mobs is not a dps check because while yes, killing the mobs quickly is good and means less healing output required, there's not any sort of limit. The mobs don't enrage after 60 seconds and start 1 shotting people or anything.

Enrage timers are a dps check. You do enough damage to kill the boss in time or the party wipes. Many mid boss transitions are dps checks. You kill the adds in time or the party wipes. Now, as I understand it the three dragon heads aren't an instant death if you fail the mechanic, but they're still a dps check, you fail if the three heads aren't destroyed before the aoe covers the whole arena. But they are still certainly 100% a dps check. In O11, the dps check is killing the monitor before Omega's gauge hits 100%, but the rest of the fight is NOT a dps check. Obviously you want to kill the boss faster so there's less chances of things going wrong and just to finish faster, but the final phase of normal mode raid fights are not a dps check because there's no timer.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Then don't pug. and don't queue with such people. You'll NEVER have the right to insist they dont play. ever.

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I'm afraid your stance on this is silly, for two reasons: 1) PF allows one to set certain expectations, so you should meet those and 2) for content organised through matchmaking, there is an assumption that the goal is to complete the duty in a reasonable amount of time. Most players share this goal, because this sort of content is there to level or gear, and will therefore remove players who pose an obstacle and don't want to improve.

1) also applies to savage content, but there's no real debate on that - none that anyone would take seriously.

2) is the reason why the votekick function exists - and I will advocate kicking anyone holding back the group and not listening to feedback, including people who e.g. run around HoH to collect chests and waste everyone else's collective time. I always offer feedback to players where they can improve, I rarely just resort to kicking unless someone is insufferable.

I don't care if they shovel money in SE's direction, but they won't be wasting my time.

Matchmade content isn't an excuse to be an idiot and still forms part of the game, and a considerable one given its role in gearing and leveling. By not improving/listening to feedback you are, essentially, wasting other people's scarce time. Pretty toxic, if you ask me.

They can play the game, like I said, just not with me.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Yeah. A DPS check is only a dps check if there's a time limit on it.

Pulling mobs is not a dps check because while yes, killing the mobs quickly is good and means less healing output required, there's not any sort of limit. The mobs don't enrage after 60 seconds and start 1 shotting people or anything.

Enrage timers are a dps check. You do enough damage to kill the boss in time or the party wipes. Many mid boss transitions are dps checks. You kill the adds in time or the party wipes. Now, as I understand it the three dragon heads aren't an instant death if you fail the mechanic, but they're still a dps check, you fail if the three heads aren't destroyed before the aoe covers the whole arena. But they are still certainly 100% a dps check. In O11, the dps check is killing the monitor before Omega's gauge hits 100%, but the rest of the fight is NOT a dps check. Obviously you want to kill the boss faster so there's less chances of things going wrong and just to finish faster, but the final phase of normal mode raid fights are not a dps check because there's no timer.

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But there is a time limit, the mobs will eventually kill you just like the dragon heads

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Originally Posted by TalonAnchors

But there is a time limit, the mobs will eventually kill you just like the dragon heads

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Not really. A DPS check is testing just dps.

In normal trash pulls, even if you have crappy dps you can still live via good tanking and good healing. It's not just about how much damage you put out. There are multiple variables in place to determine if the group lives or not. These mobs could be cleared by a a paladin spamming total eclipse and three healers spaming cure on them.

In a DPS check, it doesn't matter how good the healers are or how good the tanks are at mitigating incoming damage. The group either puts out enough dps to clear the check or they don't. There's no wiggle room to be bought with healing or tanking. No amount of healing or tanking is going to contribute to killing the monitor or crystal or nails or whatever in time.

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Originally Posted by TalonAnchors

But there is a time limit, the mobs will eventually kill you just like the dragon heads

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Stop purposely being obtuse, you can't possibly be this ignorant about DPS checks with bard at lvl 70.