One dungeon per patch!?

They've done it before. A few times, in fact.

2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.1, 4.2 and 4.3 I think? Dungeons in those patches weren't a part of the MSQ.

With the new focus on Trusts and wanting to include the Scions, that's obviously not the direction they're going or wanting to go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

A theme park MMO is one that caters for all types of players. I have done Grand Cosmos once. Just because I CAN access it, doesn't mean that it is worthwhile content to me, everyone I have spoken to is not bothered about this change because dungeons as a piece of content are stale and bland. I would say that overexposing players to content that they don't enjoy is more stupid than implementing extremely difficult (yet extremely enjoyable) content.

---

Stale and bland > Unaccesible.

Good night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

With the new focus on Trusts and wanting to include the Scions, that's obviously not the direction they're going or wanting to go.

---

Well, dungeons and MSQ content is too hard for the average FFXIV player. They need to cater to their majority. Easy mode, and the like.

The game got bigger audience, we passed million subscribers, but SE still need "sacrifice" one content for another, omegalul. Why design whole dungeon, when you can make a circle with background, it's simple as that.

I don't mind them dropping the second second dungeon since I don't value them much, but even so, I'm not sure I see the added value they traded the first second dungeon for.

Sure, I see where the work went, and they probably took more than the creation of a second dungeon every other patch, but the end products are of somewhat questionable quality (Eureka) or does not apply to many people (Ultimate).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

In SB, you 'lost' three dungeons. (4.1, 4.3 and 4.5 only having one dungeon as opposed to the 2 per patch in HW.)

You 'gained' the Arsenal, two Ultimate fights, and four zones for Eureka. With quests, several Notorius Monster fights per zones, and the logos system in the later two zones.

---

Let's not pretend dungeons alone bought us all that; any fair accounting would demand we also throw Diadem, Diadem Revamped, Wonderous Tails, and perhaps Aquapolis into the costs section.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tdb

I'm sure ultimates are beneath a WoW Mythic+ veteran like you, but please try to understand that us casuals need something to do as well.

---

Of all things that might appeal to a casual audience... you pick Ultimates as your bastion?

Even tho I wasn't a big fan of Eureka when they first released it, I did enjoy it later on (after some nerfs tbf) in the expansion when there wasn't much else to do ingame. Dungeons are nice and neat and all, but they're not the type of thrilling/grinding/challenging content that keeps you playing over a period of months where there is nothing new added.

Ultimates were necessary imo, since they kept making EX-primals and savages easier to make it more accessible for the casual-ish crowd, which was an ok move for me personally. You might want to keep in mind that savage/ultimate releases, world races and streams in general are really good advertisement and probably get a good chunk of ppl interested and play the game. :)

So in the end idm getting less dungeons, but other types of content instead. Which is definetly not just Eureka/Citadel and Ultimates, but also Ishgard restoration, fishing boats, performance, advanced gpose and so on. All of this takes a lot of time and work and I would argue that ultimates take the least bc, well, most of the mechanics, boss-models and fights are already in the game and just need to be kinda re-worked.
Just because the new types of content aren't for one personally, doesn't make them magically unimportant in the greater scheme of the whole game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Introducing "content" that even 80% of players don't try is a very smart decision. Who would doubt that.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o751...4Oly/giphy.gif

---

I'd like to point out that content garnered the highest viewership this game has ever seen in its six year history. Considering they added new animations to TEA despite saying they wouldn't suggests the profits and attention Ultimate gained for the game was worthwhile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Stale and bland > Unaccesible.

Good night.

---

Have to vehemently disagree. I may not be the biggest Blue Mage fan but at least that's different. If the whole game grew continuously stale, I wouldn't bother playing. So it'd be no different than adding no content whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Of all things that might appeal to a casual audience... you pick Ultimates as your bastion?

---

They were being sarcastic, I’m fairly sure...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Stale and bland > Unaccesible.

Good night.

---

Hard disagree. I’d rather have no content than content that puts me to sleep. “Good night”, indeed.

It would be different if the dungeons in this game were engaging—but they really aren’t. They’re all the same with a different coat of paint: two pulls > boss > two pulls > boss > two pulls > final boss. Very little variance from that pattern. There’s nothing challenging about them. There’s nothing engaging about them. So I don’t see this as a loss. Maybe they can actually pool more resources into the single dungeon we’re getting and make it not mind-numbing. But I’m probably being too optimistic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It would be different if the dungeons in this game were engaging—but they really aren’t. They’re all the same with a different coat of paint: two pulls > boss > two pulls > boss > two pulls > final boss. Very little variance from that pattern. There’s nothing challenging about them. There’s nothing engaging about them. So I don’t see this as a loss. Maybe they can actually pool more resources into the single dungeon we’re getting and make it not mind-numbing. But I’m probably being too optimistic.

---

And that kind of applies to Trials, 24man raids, and normal mode raids to a certain degree too. Sure a few mechanics change here and there, but it's still following the same principles over and over. So if having one less dungeon allows the devs to enhance the rest of the content (normal mode or savage) I'd be happy. But I'm perhaps being too optimistic too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Let's not pretend dungeons alone bought us all that; any fair accounting would demand we also throw Diadem, Diadem Revamped, Wonderous Tails, and perhaps Aquapolis into the costs section.

---

What kind of accounting is that?

Diadem is being revised, WT is still here as far as I know (haven't done it in a long time), and Aquapolis has its counterparts in the latter expansions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

"just drop dungeons"

.....excuse me? You realize that is where they're telling a lot of the story? This is still a Final Fantasy game. It's still a STORY game. If you don't like them... I'm sorry? This game isn't just for you, it's for everyone. So they're spacing things out and have a lot more to upkeep and work on. Oh well. They have stuff they're working on. Personally, I'm fine with it.

---

While dropping dungeons alltogether is certainly a bit extreme and at least I always liked my story-dungeon, you cant deny that during our 3-dungeon-time in ARR only the mainstory-dungeon actually told, well a story, each patch. There are noticeable exceptions, like Tam Tara and the follow up on Edda, but most other HMs and even the new dungeons werent huge storytellers - "Oh, the dragons are back... better go to Stone Vigil again!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

They were being sarcastic, I’m fairly sure...



Hard disagree. I’d rather have no content than content that puts me to sleep. “Good night”, indeed.

It would be different if the dungeons in this game were engaging—but they really aren’t. They’re all the same with a different coat of paint: two pulls > boss > two pulls > boss > two pulls > final boss. Very little variance from that pattern. There’s nothing challenging about them. There’s nothing engaging about them. So I don’t see this as a loss. Maybe they can actually pool more resources into the single dungeon we’re getting and make it not mind-numbing. But I’m probably being too optimistic.

---

Last time i said something like that about dungeons people sent me to play WoW soooo... I dont know.

I would rather prefer hard dungeons than a super hard battle who the vast mayority cant finish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Last time i said something like that about dungeons people sent me to play WoW soooo... I dont know.

I would rather prefer hard dungeons than a super hard battle who the vast mayority cant finish.

---

Or you could ask for both? And maybe this change will grant both. Who knows. It seems doubtful what with the overall theme of Shadowbringers being to lower skill ceilings/close skill gaps, but one can dream.

I disagree with removing Ultimates simply because they’re niche. If that’s the argument, might as well remove all niche content (hello, PvP). But this is a theme-park MMO. Having both is not a huge thing to ask for—it’s just up to the developers to make dungeons more engaging for the playerbase at that point.

I also think anyone can tackle and clear an Ultimate if they put in the time and effort into it. Most opt not to because it takes a lot of time to 1. Obtain the skill needed for the content, and 2. Prog and clear the content. Some people don’t have the time to dedicate to it because of life. Others simply don’t want to because it can be really exhausting progging an Ultimate fight. Others still are content with sitting back and watching Twitch streams. Honestly, I don’t think it’s just the raiders that tackle it that enjoy the content: all three Ultimates netted substantial views on Twitch just from people watching the races. And I have seen several people who say that they just enjoyed watching it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm still waiting to see what benefit there was in deleting the second dungeon in every other patch....

---

They've added a new difficulty mode for Trials. That's why they scrapped 1 dungeon from the patches so they have more time to invest in the trial development.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fhaerron

They've added a new difficulty mode for Trials. That's why they scrapped 1 dungeon from the patches so they have more time to invest in the trial development.

---

I’m curious, where was this said? Because I haven’t heard about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I also think anyone can tackle and clear an Ultimate if they put in the time and effort into it. Most opt not to because it takes a lot of time to 1. Obtain the skill needed for the content, and 2. Prog and clear the content. Some people don’t have the time to dedicate to it because of life. Others simply don’t want to because it can be really exhausting progging an Ultimate fight. Others still are content with sitting back and watching Twitch streams. Honestly, I don’t think it’s just the raiders that tackle it that enjoy the content: all three Ultimates netted substantial views on Twitch just from people watching the races. And I have seen several people who say that they just enjoyed watching it.

---

I'd love to have on-demand solo content on the difficulty level of savages or even ultimates. I have difficulty committing to a regular raiding schedule of a static progress group. Party finder can sometimes result in good groups, but it may also result in elitist jerks or entitled underperformers. And sometimes parties take hours to fill up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Or you could ask for both? And maybe this change will grant both. Who knows. It seems doubtful what with the overall theme of Shadowbringers being to lower skill ceilings/close skill gaps, but one can dream.

I disagree with removing Ultimates simply because they’re niche. If that’s the argument, might as well remove all niche content (hello, PvP). But this is a theme-park MMO. Having both is not a huge thing to ask for—it’s just up to the developers to make dungeons more engaging for the playerbase at that point.

I also think anyone can tackle and clear an Ultimate if they put in the time and effort into it. Most opt not to because it takes a lot of time to 1. Obtain the skill needed for the content, and 2. Prog and clear the content. Some people don’t have the time to dedicate to it because of life. Others simply don’t want to because it can be really exhausting progging an Ultimate fight. Others still are content with sitting back and watching Twitch streams. Honestly, I don’t think it’s just the raiders that tackle it that enjoy the content: all three Ultimates netted substantial views on Twitch just from people watching the races. And I have seen several people who say that they just enjoyed watching it.

---

At no point did I say that they should eliminate Ultimate. First, because any MMO should have a level escalation from casual to hardcore.

Another very different issue is that I think it's good and healthy for the game that the most remarkable content for a couple of months is precisely that which hardly anyone will try.

FFXIV is a casual game and that's what makes it grow. Other MMOs tried to please the hardcore community and died, as is the case with Wildstar.

And as far as everyone can do Ultimate... no. Just like the mythic one in WoW, people either don't have the skill, the time, or the interest to see everything you have to invest in order to have ilvl and a shiny weapon to show in Limsa.

My main desire for the game moving forward is an update to the character customisation system, particularly for male characters. More content beyond that would be neat, of course, but I'm hoping the development team have recognised that Blizzard are updating their dated character models and bringing them up to the same level as the newer character models.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

At no point did I say that they should eliminate Ultimate. First, because any MMO should have a level escalation from casual to hardcore.

---

Apologies...but that has been implied repeatedly in your posts throughout this thread. At the very least, you’re implying that the game would be better off without the Ultimate fights in favor of focusing on more “casual” content.

At the end of the day, I doubt that the existence of Ultimate is what ultimately cost us the extra dungeons. In SB, the developers expressly said that the extra dungeon for every other patch was cut to focus on things like Eureka and BLU. Not Ultimate. Ultimate only has two developers that can even work on it.

Quote:

---

FFXIV is a casual game and that's what makes it grow. Other MMOs tried to please the hardcore community and died, as is the case with Wildstar.

---

FFXIV is still immensely casual even with the presence of Ultimate. Everything had been made easier over the years. EX primals and Savage are a shadow of what they used to be. Jobs are constantly dumbed down as the expansions pass to close the gap between higher tier players and the lower tier ones.

Quote:

---

And as far as everyone can do Ultimate... no. Just like the mythic one in WoW, people either don't have the skill, the time, or the interest to see everything you have to invest in order to have ilvl and a shiny weapon to show in Limsa.

---

You didn’t read what I said. I said:

“I also think anyone can tackle and clear Ultimate if they put in the time and effort into it.” This includes things such as “gitting gud”, finding a static (because Ultimate is not very puggable), setting aside time/forming a schedule to prog, being willing to set aside enough time for the content (different prog mentalities mean you will spend different amounts of time in it—more causal prog mindsets will take longer than a more hardcore mindset; you have to ask yourself if you are willing to endure long prog times or not, because Ultimate is an endurance test), and then actually progging and learning the content with the intent to clear. Of course not everyone has an interest in doing it—there are even really good raiders that have no interest in it even though they could easily clear—but everyone has the capability to tackle the content if they try for it.

I'm glad if we get less dungeons per patch. Less for my alts to unlock!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Apologies...but that has been implied repeatedly in your posts throughout this thread. At the very least, you’re implying that the game would be better off without the Ultimate fights in favor of focusing on more “casual” content.

At the end of the day, I doubt that the existence of Ultimate is what ultimately cost us the extra dungeons. In SB, the developers expressly said that the extra dungeon for every other patch was cut to focus on things like Eureka and BLU. Not Ultimate. Ultimate only has two developers that can even work on it.

---

My point of view is as simple as that: Ultimate should not count as a major part of the content, nor should it address a large % of a patch. The reasons for this are very simple; on the one hand, it's completely niche content and on the other hand, I'm sure it's played by a very small percentage of the playerbase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

FFXIV is still immensely casual even with the presence of Ultimate. Everything had been made easier over the years. EX primals and Savage are a shadow of what they used to be. Jobs are constantly dumbed down as the expansions pass to close the gap between higher tier players and the lower tier ones.

---

I don't know at what point I said that Ultimate would make FFXIV stop being casual. It has been, is and will be, and this is the feature that attracts so many people to try it and stay. It doesn't force you to be a toplayer, you have many options and they all have their charm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You didn’t read what I said. I said:

“I also think anyone can tackle and clear Ultimate if they put in the time and effort into it.” This includes things such as “gitting gud”, finding a static (because Ultimate is not very puggable), setting aside time/forming a schedule to prog, being willing to set aside enough time for the content (different prog mentalities mean you will spend different amounts of time in it—more causal prog mindsets will take longer than a more hardcore mindset; you have to ask yourself if you are willing to endure long prog times or not, because Ultimate is an endurance test), and then actually progging and learning the content with the intent to clear. Of course not everyone has an interest in doing it—there are even really good raiders that have no interest in it even though they could easily clear—but everyone has the capability to tackle the content if they try for it.

---

Nope.

I'm sorry, but the harsh reality is that there are people who, even if they put everything into it, are not going to be able to finish that battle. I've raided Mythical in WoW (in fact I have the last raid totally finished) and I've seen people who just couldn't. They tried hard, they improved their equipment, their rotations, but it didn't work.

Just waiting to see the results of removing the dungeon. If they removed the 1 dungeon to add in a 3rd ultimate raid then IMO its a waste.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

My point of view is as simple as that: Ultimate should not count as a major part of the content, nor should it address a large % of a patch. The reasons for this are very simple; on the one hand, it's completely niche content and on the other hand, I'm sure it's played by a very small percentage of the playerbase.

---

You do realise the insane bulk of content we got in 5.1 right? Compare the amount of stuff we got 3.1 or even 4.1. We got ishgardian restoration, BLU, ultimate, and a complete overhaul of crafting/gathering, new game +, and a new PVP mode. Don't pretend that casual players are losing out because top end raiders have exciting content.

The developers have explicitly stated that ultimate is designed to not be a drain on resources. They use reused assets, and don't play any part on the lore. The only "expensive" thing about ultimate is the ending of alexander ultimate, and that was likely done because the developers see ultimate as a success. Why do they see ultimate as a success when so few players do it? Because constructive feedback is almost unanimously positive, and XIV saw a huge boost on sites like twitch where I believe it was even trending during UCOB and UWU.

The likes on your posts compared to those who disagree with you, as well as the replies to your comments put you, ironically, in the minority here. Maybe try to understand what people love about ultimate rather than crying that you can't do it (or maybe suck it up, get a static, and make it a goal of yours).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

Just waiting to see the results of removing the dungeon. If they removed the 1 dungeon to add in a 3rd ultimate raid then IMO its a waste.

---

See my list of 5.1 content, I believe the results already speak for themselves. 5.2 looks promising too, with additional Ishgardian restoration, 2 trials, exploration relic content, and more crafting/gathering stuff including relics and fishing boat, and thats just from one live letter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You do realise the insane bulk of content we got in 5.1 right? Compare the amount of stuff we got 3.1 or even 4.1. We got ishgardian restoration, BLU, ultimate, and a complete overhaul of crafting/gathering, new game +, and a new PVP mode. Don't pretend that casual players are losing out because top end raiders have exciting content.

---

Amazing so a crafting base content done in 3 days.
A limited job that no one care about after 1 week.
A revamp of crafting system which is not content.
A feature for those who have bought story skip potion or are so bored in game but can't stop playing for a while.
A new area to press & key 3 times in a row.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You do realise the insane bulk of content we got in 5.1 right? Compare the amount of stuff we got 3.1 or even 4.1. We got ishgardian restoration, BLU, ultimate, and a complete overhaul of crafting/gathering, new game +, and a new PVP mode. Don't pretend that casual players are losing out because top end raiders have exciting content.

---

But do you know what I was talking about specifically, or did you pick out four loose phrases and get wonderland in your head?

I said that between dungeons or a difficult version of these or a battle that interests a tiny part of the playerbase, I'll take the first one. Next time you let me know and I'll draw you a picture or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

The developers have explicitly stated that ultimate is designed to not be a drain on resources. They use reused assets, and don't play any part on the lore. The only "expensive" thing about ultimate is the ending of alexander ultimate, and that was likely done because the developers see ultimate as a success. Why do they see ultimate as a success when so few players do it? Because constructive feedback is almost unanimously positive, and XIV saw a huge boost on sites like twitch where I believe it was even trending during UCOB and UWU.

---

FFXIV on twitch... what happened, it went from 4 viewers to 100?, it's still a laugh number. Go over to some Method stream and cry.

A totally success, yeah, I'm completely sure that the entire casual population (the vast majority that makes up the game itself) were crazy about Ultimate coming, hahahahaha. Jesus Christ man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

The likes on your posts compared to those who disagree with you, as well as the replies to your comments put you, ironically, in the minority here. Maybe try to understand what people love about ultimate rather than crying that you can't do it (or maybe suck it up, get a static, and make it a goal of yours).

---

You are right, the opinion of this forum where 30 people participate compared to the million and some players is a very valid scale. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you're right. There's nothing to do with those people who will like anyone who disagrees with me because they've eaten a few baits.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/135z7...l84/source.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

But do you know what I was talking about specifically, or did you pick out four loose phrases and get wonderland in your head?

I said that between dungeons or a difficult version of these or a battle that interests a tiny part of the playerbase, I'll take the first one. Next time you let me know and I'll draw you a picture or something.

---

Let me quote exactly what you said:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Introducing "content" that even 80% of players don't try is a very smart decision. Who would doubt that. (sarcastic tone implied)

---

You didn't say it wasn't to your taste, you said it wasn't a smart decision. Something which is untrue, as I have said, SE sees the content as a success. As for your weird comment about 100 viewers, like I said XIV became a trending game on the site during ultimate prog. Look at the statistics and correlate the spikes in views to 4.11, 4.31, 5.0 and 5.11 https://twitchtracker.com/games/24241 This is actual data that we can see, not 100 viewers, tens of thousands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hasana

Amazing so a crafting base content done in 3 days.
A limited job that no one care about after 1 week.
A revamp of crafting system which is not content.
A feature for those who have bought story skip potion or are so bored in game but can't stop playing for a while.
A new area to press & key 3 times in a row.

---

Content is content, whether you enjoy that content is up to you, plenty of people do (hint, BLU parties are still prevailant in PF despite it being released a month ago, with people who actually do the content enjoying themselves, I wouldn't call that "nobody caring")

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hasana

Amazing so a crafting base content done in 3 days.
A limited job that no one care about after 1 week.
A revamp of crafting system which is not content.
A feature for those who have bought story skip potion or are so bored in game but can't stop playing for a while.
A new area to press & key 3 times in a row.

---

How is a dungeon better than any of that? ...specially when phrased like you did:
A new backdrop for 20 minutes of tomestone-grind per day (for a maximum of 5 days a week) that a lot of people dont bother with after a few weeks.

Personally I feel that Ishgard, an overhaul of the crafting-system, new game+, PvP and even though I personally dont enjoy it, Bluemage, brought a lot more to the game than one or even two new dungeons for the expert-roulette would have. While they might be fun initially and are exciting and intresting and all that good stuff, after running them on a more or less daily basis for my tomestones, I dont care much anymore which dungeon it is, I'm doing. They turn into a grind, which sadly takes away a bit of their "magic", in the sense that its more like "Oh, okay, this one today" and not so much a really intresting experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Let me quote exactly what you said:



You didn't say it wasn't to your taste, you said it wasn't a smart decision. Something which is untrue, as I have said, SE sees the content as a success. As for your weird comment about 100 viewers, like I said XIV became a trending game on the site during ultimate prog. Look at the statistics and correlate the spikes in views to 4.11, 4.31, 5.0 and 5.11 https://twitchtracker.com/games/24241 This is actual data that we can see, not 100 viewers, tens of thousands.



Content is content, whether you enjoy that content is up to you, plenty of people do (hint, BLU parties are still prevailant in PF despite it being released a month ago, with people who actually do the content enjoying themselves, I wouldn't call that "nobody caring")

---

https://twitchtracker.com/games/18122

Compare numbers and cry, please. But as i said, you are right, the number of likes in this forum clearly show what the entire playerbase like and don't like. Don't let up, buddy, everybody lies to themselves the way they want to.

I do feel like scrapping dungeons for adding ultimate among other content does set this bad precedent that they are willing to stop developing content that appeals to most players in favor of developing content that only a very few will even attempt. If they do develop something with a wide appeal then excellent. This game does not lack for diversity though, its just that players usually want a diversity of content within what they already do, so things like golden saucer or gathering or crafting don't fall in their realm of content. Dungeons will always be the first thing cut though for the pursuit of other content, because some very vocal players constantly talk about how much they despise them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hasana

Amazing so a crafting base content done in 3 days.
A limited job that no one care about after 1 week.
A revamp of crafting system which is not content.
A feature for those who have bought story skip potion or are so bored in game but can't stop playing for a while.
A new area to press & key 3 times in a row.

---

Quite a good trade, I'd say. Considering a new dungeon is interesting only once before it blends in with the other 5000 dungeons due to it being the exact same format every time.
I had more fun in that one week of BLU than any dungeon has ever given.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Don't let up, buddy, everybody lies to themselves the way they want to.

---

Sure, but they are still making ultimates (probably an extra ultimate compared to last expansion), and producing content I want, while reducing the amount of content I don't want (dungeons), I don't see how I lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

I do feel like scrapping dungeons for adding ultimate among other content does set this bad precedent that they are willing to stop developing content that appeals to most players in favor of developing content that only a very few will even attempt.

---

Ultimate is designed not to take up resources. We could have 3 dungeons per patch and still have ultimates, we wouldn't get anything like Eureka, BLU, ishgardian restoration, or any of the many other pieces of casual content that we have gotten though. Lack of development resources isn't the reason dungeons are being cut anyway, the huge amount of dungeons already implemented, and the interest to make new and different content is.

Also appeals to most players is a stretch, accessible to most players is more accurate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

I do feel like scrapping dungeons for adding ultimate among other content does set this bad precedent that they are willing to stop developing content that appeals to most players in favor of developing content that only a very few will even attempt. If they do develop something with a wide appeal then excellent. This game does not lack for diversity though, its just that players usually want a diversity of content within what they already do, so things like golden saucer or gathering or crafting don't fall in their realm of content. Dungeons will always be the first thing cut though for the pursuit of other content, because some very vocal players constantly talk about how much they despise them.

---

Dungeons are not scrapped for ultimate. Or at the very least, not 'only' for ultimate.

One dungeon is fine I guess, as long as they don't cut more. I wish they were a bit more difficult or had a separate extreme version.

I hope the content we get to make up for that one missing dungeon per patch is worth it. Just remember something, Yoshida: if there is no replacement content, people will have no reason to stay subscribed for months at a time. That's not good for business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wind-Krysvein

I hope the content we get to make up for that one missing dungeon per patch is worth it. Just remember something, Yoshida: if there is no replacement content, people will have no reason to stay subscribed for months at a time. That's not good for business.

---

I mean... the content we got instead has been listed several times now - even if its not content that everyones going to like, its still content.

Considering Eureka and the Citadel, it seems like one of their focusses is to develop more content to obtain the relic-weapons.
In both ARR and HW those weapons have been something to keep people busy for months - by having them re-do content that was already their, mainly FATEs and dungeons (the later even for three different steps: Tomestone-grind, Light-grind and in ARR the horrible random drops...). Thats not very inspired content, but it sure kept us busy.
So instead of getting to farm 1.500 tomestones per relic-book, we get some original-relic content now - I'm fine with that, even if the content doesnt turn out to be my favorite part of the game! Anything is better than feeling the need to consider running MSQ-roulette again to earn those tomestones in an acceptable amount of time...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

What kind of accounting is that?

Diadem is being revised, WT is still here as far as I know (haven't done it in a long time), and Aquapolis has its counterparts in the latter expansions.

---

As previously accounted...

Gains: Counterparts of Expeditionary Missions, counterparts of randomized side-content, and the only unique thing SB brought -- ultimates.
Costs: Only the dungeon per dungeon-granting patch.

Really? Wouldn't it be more likely that only the unique portion was bought solely with the time saved from including a dungeon fewer?

A mere single dungeon per patch did not afford us nearly all of our side-content, as the original accounting suggested.

I'd rather them focus on one dungeon at a time as those are the ones I feel that really push design out.

Skalla, Swallow's Compass, and Ghimlyt were all really great due to their setpieces and bosses (Swallow's Compass especially). So to have them focus on just one really enjoyable dungeon instead of half assing two using existing assets (like how St Moc is just more brown).

It does suck because we are going to miss out on more music variety (which is a big reason I enjoyed the two dungeons at launch), but I'm willing to live with it if it means the dungeons are intricate. Considering how great this new one looks (Gpose heaven) I'm excited to see it.

Also a big factor I'm not seeing brought up is Gear. Both the dungeons in 4.2 and 4.4 reused older gear sets (Valerian and Filibuster) and people called them out hard on it (mainly for 4.4). I'd hope with this we instead get exclusively designed gear just like how Grand Cosmos has so we have a reason to keep running them past that point. This should also help with the cycle of gear constantly being reissued as new ways like the Ishgard Restoration allow us to use certain gear naturally for every job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

As previously accounted...

Gains: Counterparts of Expeditionary Missions, counterparts of randomized side-content, and the only unique thing SB brought -- ultimates.
Costs: Only the dungeon per dungeon-granting patch.

Really? Wouldn't it be more likely that only the unique portion was bought solely with the time saved from including a dungeon fewer?

A mere single dungeon per patch did not afford us nearly all of our side-content, as the original accounting suggested.

---

Ok, so aside from Diadem, which can arguably be covered by one Eureka zone (plus a minor update with FC subs), the rest in your list are not costs at all. WT is about doing existing contents, and it still exists, with added content and reward, and Aquapolis has newer counterparts.

The only real loss we got in Stormblood was the dungeon every other patch, so while it may not account for every new thing we got in SB (PVP revamp and new mode and BLU content was not mentioned in the original post you responded to), that is the comparison to be made, as not many people seem to care about Diadem, which is being updated again this expansion.