Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

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Originally Posted by Abriael

For many, trying equates to doing their job. In the case of a healer, healing.

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Not if they are emote spamming, jumping around, or chatting, only throwing the odd heal out when need be. Hell, even over-healing and wasting their MP is a bad. During most of the base-content in this game, like Dungeons, a tank or DPS doesn't need to be healed if they are at 75% or higher HP unless a tankbuster is coming or there's a mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

And of course when even the game director says it's not mandatory, people resort to being childish about the situation instead of just ending it..

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Yoshida also thought that the 2.0 warrior was fine, effectively telling people to "git gud" despite the fact warrior was measurably worse than paladin. He signed off on bowmages. He agreed to Diadem. The man is not infallible.

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/thread
10char

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Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

This person knows what's up!

En Garde!

Your horn vs my rapier! Forum Style!

I would posit that the Vanu dance is VERY important to the success of the team however, it should REALLY be the Manderville dance as any true healer would know. ^_^

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Feel the wrath of my great sword style! Though I should work more on my card games on chocobos style; now that is a deadly and fun style! Forum Fantasy XIV for GOTY?

Also, the Sun Drop Dance is for striking fear. The Mandervile Dance inspires your allies while striking fear upon your enemies on account of the sheer manliness that you exude while performing it! Dance as only a true Mandervile Man can!

Real talk though, people should just understand that healers are intended to deal DPS when healing is not needed and they have to accept that if they don't DPS they run the risk of being kicked for difference in play style. If people have to accept that healer dps is not mandatory then they also have to accept that said healing only healers run the risk of being kicked and said kicks being justified by the current game rules.

Or not, I kind of want to ride this thread to page 100 and beyond!

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Originally Posted by floofuf

Actually, I'm pretty sure most "solo" content has NPCs that fight and stuff, so if offensive spells were there just for that then... that's kind of surprising. Hall of the Novice (or whatever), heck and even the CNJ storyline basically tell you that you should DPS during downtime. People have even said that boss fights and such have set mechanics, unless you push too much. With all this information, it literally does not make sense that healers shouldn't DPS. But oh well. I'll just be a healer so that I don't come across lazy healers :P

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Oh please, everything in this game is going to have some sort of lore explanation for its existence. Even glamour does. I would most certainly not take that as the game telling healers to dps.

And what solo content are you even speaking of? Cause the solo I'm speaking should obviously be open world, fates, hunts, and leveling in general. I assume you mean class quests but, those are more to teach you how to use your spells in general than to teach a role. Healer class quests are bad in that regard anyway as they usually have someone else healing instead.

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Originally Posted by floofuf

-snip-

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

-snip-

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Don't bother. That person already told me that PotD was solo content, even when in a 4-man party.
When you have to twist reality itself around to fit your views, then it's pointless to debate. Of even hope to have some kind of logical exchange.

Earth is flat. Climate change is a chinese hoax. Etc.

A lot of people in this thread really believe that all a healer as to do is heal to fulfill their role. They will be adamant about it. Nothing you can say will make them think otherwise. There's "heal" in "healer", so that's the only thing they should do. They don't care about being active, or even being credit to team. As long as nobody dies, they think it's fine. Heck, I'm pretty sure that even if someone dies, they'll argue that they have a rez skill for a reason.

So, again, better just to ignore them and kick them if you end up in a roulette with them. There's no debate to have. We are talking to a wall.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Feel the wrath of my great sword style! Though I should work more on my card games on chocobos style; now that is a deadly and fun style! Forum Fantasy XIV for GOTY?

Also, the Sun Drop Dance is for striking fear. The Mandervile Dance inspires your allies while striking fear upon your enemies on account of the sheer manliness that you exude while performing it! Dance as only a true Mandervile Man can!

Real talk though, people should just understand that healers are intended to deal DPS when healing is not needed and they have to accept that if they don't DPS they run the risk of being kicked for difference in play style.

Or not, I kind of want to ride this thread to page 100 and beyond!

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Thrust, Thrust, Parry!

A true Manderville Man you are. ^_^

You know, ironically enough, while I may not agree with the pro-healer dps crowd, I do dps as a healer on the blue moon's I hate myself enough to play one. If only cause I like to see their aoe ;P I even have every dps skill macro'd so I can use them without untargeting the group <tt>. Ofc cleric stance is still cancer though so I'll be happy to get rid of it.

And it is rather entertaining to see how fast this thread has grown lol.

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

would they be expected to heal others as well as deal damage? .

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This is why people trying to say RDM using Vercure when it's needed it's a good thing. 9/10 times they'll tell the RDM to /sit and let the wipe happen rather than try to recover from dead healers. Hell, people don't even try to recover even though PLD has Clemency! People would rather just wipe at 12% than try to pull out a win.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

snip

So, again, better just to ignore them and kick them if you end up in a roulette with them. There's no debate to have. We are talking to a wall.

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the through is , that apart from the minority on the forums , no one really cares :P what a random healer does in a dungeon

good day to you sir!

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Not if they are emote spamming, jumping around, or chatting, only throwing the odd heal out when need be. Hell, even over-healing and wasting their MP is a bad. During most of the base-content in this game, like Dungeons, a tank or DPS doesn't need to be healed if they are at 75% or higher HP unless a tankbuster is coming or there's a mechanic.

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I remember someone said they were kicking me for emote spamming instead of doing things :/ I was sad because that was the only way to remove their damage taken up debuff the gremlins (/comfort) put on them and I wanted full pulls to the end and they were pretty bad at using cooldowns :(
Please remember some emotes are useful and not just for show :)

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

Stuff

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Shadewalker solves the tank problem, thankfully.

I don't expect perfection, I expect effort. People standing around doing nothing for multiple gcd's in a row are worthless, regardless of how smooth the run is going and also, just to be clear, of their role. Specifying since I've seen too many sub-1k dps and not pushing buttons often enough is always the culprit of that particular problem.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

This is why people trying to say RDM using Vercure when it's needed it's a good thing. 9/10 times they'll tell the RDM to /sit and let the wipe happen rather than try to recover from dead healers. Hell, people don't even try to recover even though PLD has Clemency! People would rather just wipe at 12% than try to pull out a win.

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I can't tell if this is a joke comment or not... >o>()

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Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

And what solo content are you even speaking of? Cause the solo I'm speaking should obviously be open world, fates, hunts, and leveling in general.

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I'm talking about the content that furthers you in the story, the actual Main Story Quest. In the solo instances there's always NPCs that fight enemies. The people who say that we only have those spells for solo content are just wrong. FATEs, open world enemies, hunts, and leveling can also require other people, so I don't really see your point. You could say that we have the offensive spells to make the encounter go faster, but then that backs up why healer dps is important and most people should strive for it.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Yes, differing playstyles is a legitimate reason for a kick.

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Well, answers that question then.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

I remember someone said they were kicking me for emote spamming instead of doing things :/ I was sad because that was the only way to remove their damage taken up debuff the gremlins (/comfort) put on them and I wanted full pulls to the end and they were pretty bad at using cooldowns :(
Please remember some emotes are useful and not just for show :)

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That mechanic only exists in that one specific dungeon, and 99% of people aren't even aware of it because it isn't explained anywhere. No other dungeon has a mechanic like that.

Regardless of what Yoshi has officially said or not- I'll still be that 'mean' guy that vote kicks any and all healers in 4 man content that refuses to do anything but regen the tank and twiddle their thumbs. Always, no exceptions.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

That mechanic only exists in that one specific dungeon, and 99% of people aren't even aware of it because it isn't explained anywhere. No other dungeon has a mechanic like that.

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They should add more things like that though!

I want to see the return of the nanban kariginu or something similar in Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.

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Man... even though I end up reading a lot of Trump related news almost daily, this has got to be among the most illogical perspectives outside of that. Design is not a result. Design is synonymous with intent, in this context. Are you seriously separating the two? You seem to be literally arguing that design is a variable... that when they DESIGN a game, that means devs are leaving it up to random chance that the game even balances itself out, as though anything devs do is not intentional... like randomly slamming their face on their keyboard and claiming "I MADE A GAME!" Are you serious? I think the fact people agree with this sentiment is saying a lot about the mental state of people here.

It's not redundant to say "the result of a design", as in the result of their design of the game is that healers have the option to DPS. The result of the design of the game mandates healer DPS when players do content before the devs intend them to do it. For anyone unclear on that bolded part, I'm referring to occasions such as progression raiding, where you aren't going to wait until you are geared in new tiers (perhaps through tomes), as was intended by design. Anything before that is optional, hence why Yoshi-P repeatedly states healer DPS is never part of their expectations when it comes to clearing content.

I, as well as many others (you included, it would seem), heavily encourage the idea of healers helping to DPS, but that's pretty much where our agreements end. I see the difference between optional and mandatory in this context, whereas many others only see mandatory. Logically, I'm fairly certain my outlook is the only one not driven by some made up assumption and total denial of fact (facts which have been repeatedly stated and clarified by situation by the director/producer himself). There is "optimal" which could be mistakenly seen when one reads "optional", since there's the "opti" part, but they mean different things that still relate to this situation. Maybe that's the confusion... people don't read "optional", because they're reading it as "optimal", as though Yoshi-P and people like myself are telling others that there is no optimal way to play.

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Originally Posted by floofuf

I'm talking about the content that furthers you in the story, the actual Main Story Quest. In the solo instances there's always NPCs that fight enemies. The people who say that we only have those spells for solo content are just wrong. FATEs, open world enemies, hunts, and leveling can also require other people, so I don't really see your point. You could say that we have the offensive spells to make the encounter go faster, but then that backs up why healer dps is important and most people should strive for it.

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But, they don't. The key here is to ask yourself the question. Does this encounter require ANY healing whatsoever. For any of those things listed (barring maybe S rank hunts) the answer is a firm no. Seriously that is all general content everyone can perform and in no way telling healers anything. In those cases the will use their solo intended damage spells the way they were intended... to get through solo. NPC's are 9/10 times there because of the hand holding this game does. Hell, they both tank and heal FOR you. No matter your class. lol

And on that note, remember the good old beta days when solo instances actually hurt/required you to bring potions/antidotes. /sigh

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Originally Posted by missybee

They should add more things like that though! I want to see the return of the nanban kariginu or something similar in Stormblood.

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Part of me does for the simple novelty of it, but then I look at it realistically and see how incredibly annoying it would get after a while. That being said, I'd be all for unique mechanics like that in Savage/Extreme content, as the whole point of those modes is to give players a higher challenge with unique mechanics.

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Originally Posted by LordTiberiusRex

Well, answers that question then.

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Originally Posted by LordTiberiusRex

The only question I'm caring about right now, is is it ok to tell a healer "You don't pay my sub" when you know for a fact they aren't DPSing during content?

Aka, is it still a valid reason to kick them from the group?

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No, you can't vote kick someone for not paying your sub.
You can vote kick them for not DPSing though, if it differs with your's and the party's playstyles.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Regardless of what Yoshi has officially said or not- I'll still be that 'mean' guy that vote kicks any and all healers in 4 man content that refuses to do anything but regen the tank and twiddle their thumbs. Always, no exceptions.

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Same here. It is not elitism to not want to have your time wasted. Im not running a dungeon with someone who RP walks through it either, but based on the logic by some here that makes me a "jerk" or an "elitist". Whatever, i'll wear that badge.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

the through is , that apart from the minority on the forums , no one really cares :P what a random healer does in a dungeon

good day to you sir!

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That's actually a good excuse. "Nobody cares about what I'm doing, so I'll slack freely and get carried."
So I guess if people have no self esteem and that doing their best to be helpful to others is the least of their problem, then they can use that excuse.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

No, you can't vote kick someone for not paying your sub.
You can vote kick them for not DPSing though, if it differs with your's and the party's playstyles.

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To be honest, that justification of the devs on that end leaves so much open to abuse or personal bias. That literally mean the opposite is acceptable behavior as well, that it's fine to kick you for DPSing as a healer. I personally don't endorse either option, but my outlook is clearly not going to sway their judgment on that.

Stir that pot.

I wish yoshi wouldn't encourage people to be lazy, cos that's all this is. "Be lazy if you want to, it doesn't matter."

He would have said the same thing if he asked if it was okay for DPS to not use their optimal rotations. It's technically optional if you wanna just press heavy shot over and over and over as well.

Elitist is a compliment so thanks. Also being called a jerk or d-bag makes me giggle so thanks for that too.

How is doing nothing for a large chunk of a dungeon not lazy? If anyone can answer that... I don't blame the players for their behaviour though, I blame SE for making healing so easy that it's possible to be lazy.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

To be honest, that justification of the devs on that end leaves so much open to abuse or personal bias. That literally mean the opposite is acceptable behavior as well, that it's fine to kick you for DPSing as a healer. I personally don't endorse either option, but my outlook is clearly not going to sway their judgment on that.

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If you don't wanna dps as a healer, find a group of 3 people and queue with a group that won't care you're being lazy. Don't just anonymously join a group and expect people to be okay with you being lazy. That's why I kick those healers.

I guess we can always rely on the English speaking community to twist words, over react, react to things not said and ignore the things said.

*sigh*

A simple statement to the effect that healer DPS isn't mandatory should not be the spark that ignites so much anger and ignorance.

Of course, I consider it willful ignorance when people start describing players who do not DPS to their standards as lazy or bad. There are so many factors that go into whether a given player feels comfortable throwing more or less DPS into the mix. To me it's extremely small minded to start making arbitrary decisions about other players based on whether they DPS enough when they are healing.

Frankly, since a healer is balancing their gear level, their MP level, the speed of the run, the size of the pulls, the ability of the tank to withstand damage and their own level of comfort in terms of where they want to keep other players health levels, they are the only ones in a position to determine how much DPS is appropriate for them do throw into the mix. Anyone else attempting to impose their standard on healers is unaware of all those details as well as the circumstances in any given fight. Which is why people need to just stop this stupidity about healer DPS and measure instances based on simple criteria like, did we clear it? Did we wipe? How many people fell and were raised?

Personally, as a tank I judge instances based on how long trash lasts, how many times do I see boss mechanics cycle around, and did we clear. In all honesty when I see an instance taking significantly longer than normal or boss mechanics cycling an unusual number of times; it's not the healer I am looking at it's the DPS. Let's be honest, if the DPS is sorely lacking then it's either a playing ability, playing effort or gear issue. All 3 of those tend to also impact the amount of healing required by the DPS player(s), and due to the length of the fights, it will also result in more healing needed for the tank and healer themselves. Net result, healer has less time and MP to throw into DPS. Is that something to blame the healer for? Nope. Is it something to blame the DPS for? Nope - unless they are obviously being deliberate in their inability to play or gear.

Too many players in this game treat the game like some kind of job or chore where every second is 'money' and if you take a minute more on a dungeon than expected, it's the end of the world and everyone else is just 'terribad' because of the extra minute.

Enough ranting from me. I'm just tired of all the cross role enmity that we see on display in this community and the judgemental attitudes of so very many players. This is a video game, we're meant to enjoy playing it, so perhaps we should all relax a little?

The sad part about this thread is it not even 24 hours old and already 64 pages

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

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Originally Posted by Elim

Elitist is a compliment so thanks. Also being called a jerk or d-bag makes me giggle so thanks for that too.

How is doing nothing for a large chunk of a dungeon not lazy? If anyone can answer that... I don't blame the players for their behaviour though, I blame SE for making healing so easy that it's possible to be lazy.

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Because I want to watch netflix while my eos does everything in the lower level dungeons and just have someone on follow, dur. /s

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Originally Posted by Lexia

The sad part about this thread is it not even 24 hours old and already 64 pages

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Not sad. Funny.

I like these threads though, because I hope SE devs will (one day) read them and adjust healing so it's needed more often. It's pretty sucky that healing is so light in this game that these debates pop up so often.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

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Group/Team Activity, nothing should be up to the decision of one individual, Majority rule and that's how vote kicking works as well.
And yes vote to kick works both ways we are all aware of that and you are welcome to kick people who tell you that you HAVE to dps, you just need to get your other party members to agree and that's fine after all vote kicking is about exercising the groups right to not play with an individual based on acceptable reasons (differing playstyles being acceptable).

Haah, pretty sure I said this in another thread, but, ok... Spoiler alert.
The CNJ was not about "dps like a BLM", Sylphie didn't want to learn how to tune into Nature to use her healing abilities because, like her mother, she thought doing so would hurt Nature. She was using her own essence to use healing and, since a mortal's essence isn't infinite, she was slowly killing herself. Heck, if she decided to use the offensive skills, if she wasn't learning to draw power from Nature, the result would be same. Actually, she'd probably die faster, considering how quick is it to throw some of those spells.

Also, those solo plays...the npcs aren't so strong that they can carry you through each one of them. If you weren't doing what the storyline was hinting for you to do (sometimes even flat out instructing you to do) you'd most likely fail in some way. We playin the same game here?

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

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No. /10char

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Logic

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A person who uses logic and gets it! Have a like!

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Originally Posted by Abriael

It's interesting that some keep thinking that those endlessly fighting about "WHM being bad" or this kind of minutiae on forum and social media are any representation of the "community."The community is made by hundreds of thousands of players, the vast majority of which never reads forums or reddit, care only if their job is enjoyable, and can't care one bit about a bunch of people in a hellhole of a forum bickering about tooltips that aren't even final.

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You are right, however wrong on what you are implying with why people fight over those tooltips. We all know it is not final that is why we are commenting it here to give them something to think about.


Does yoshi P even understand he is provoking more of this?:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Its prob more common then you think, my most recent example is not too long ago that my friend in The Great Gubal Library did, I might of posted it here before.. lets see... was it during that relic a thon day?

yep, here it is:


Another one that was a bit more trolly, my friend was doing her normal thing in one of the older 60 experts.. 3 or 4 patches ago? anyways after like 3rd pull the tank comments stop spaming flash. Both my friends where confused as af thinking the tank was talking to himself. Then after a pull later he started to complain about her using holy and cleric stance. and for more fun, a different friend shown me these found online:
http://i.imgur.com/COFkNUW.jpg
https://i.redd.it/oyn9aqvudq1z.png
(incase second too hard to read):
https://i.redd.it/oyn9aqvudq1z.png

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I don't believe you for a second. You'd be finished a run in the time you'd be waiting even if the healer wasn't dpsing.

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I would do the same thing, I rather do other things while waiting for someone that is going to put in the same amount of effort I do as SMN (or simply queue the DPS healer thing myself)

I really do not understand why people sit here saying healers shouldn't have to worry about DPS, so you are advocating a SCH does auto follow the tank and afk in low level dungeons? Because that is what this producer is supporting with the opening of this Pandora's box. Some people want people to put in equal effort in the party, not this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=557

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Can you honestly say that while looking at what they've shown use with WHM so far (even with the Cure II Lily buff)?
The Devs don't seem to understand their own game or how it is actually played (the meta), just how they intended it to be played.

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He is talking about himself, he is the leader of the out of touch parade.

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Originally Posted by missybee

K.

If you actually check people's information, those who advocate healer DPS tend to either be healers themselves, or at least have healers leveled. You can keep thinking that though.

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Yep, this person does not understand how I got harassed, and my friend as well, for using cleric stance despite people dying. I was misplaced blame for a wipe once because a tank over pulled while a BLM refused to AoE rotation. This person also had the audacity to flip my post and put words in my mouth when I was just explaining the run ins I had.

Low level DF a SCH can auto follow the tank and afk, I suppose that is not kick worthy because no one died?

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

I don't think you even have to voice it. You can say nothing and start the vote kick and if one other person agrees, they will get kicked and it would still remain a valid use. You don't have to state your reason in chat. Honestly, it is probably better to remain silent in chat when doing this.



Better hope that the fourth person in the party doesn't agree with the kick. I'm pretty sure you only need two people to agree (the initiator included) to the kick in a dungeon.

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Yep its 2/4, I seen a healer kicked just because they said "You overkilled that boss with the melee LB, it would been better spent on the next pull with caster lb"

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

So a healer is expected to not only heal the DPS who stand in crap they shouldn't be standing in, but also to deal damage in order to make up for the lack of DPS those people are essentially not producing?

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I do it all the time though, and my friend.

An AST using shields outhealing a whm while out dpsing 2 DPS and a tank where the MT and DPS taken too much damage? It is def possible to do. Giving healers a lazy pass for being healers is just insane concept to me.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

I don't think this is a case of him being out of touch (if anything, the development team made it easier for healers to DPS, therefore supporting Healer DPS; not to mention that statement made in the Hall of Novice). This is probably more of a neutral stance he has to take due to his position, sort of like his stance with parsers. He cannot publicly support the use of parsers, but it doesn't seem like he is personally against them, maybe even personally supportive of them. He actually does seem to understand how important parsers are to the raiding community, he just can't officially support them. He just can't officially support one play style over another.



On a completely unrelated note, I just noticed all of my silver medals turning into one gold medal! Yay!

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That makes sense but look at all the trouble it stirred up =/

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

By your logic I'm a DPS player because I happen to have all but two of the DPS jobs leveled. Which would be wrong, of course. I'm a healer, who subs tank. DPS jobs are only leveled for the content completion (dem 60s doe) and so that I can run as one of them in casual content when I get the urge to do some actual deeps (something that healing jobs can't do).

Same applies to the people in this thread.

Just because you have healer jobs leveled, that doesn't make you a healer. Anyone who advocates healer dps being mandatory is no healer, period. You might mostly play on healer jobs, but you're a DPS player because you can't think of anything other than min/maxing DPS and shoving your demands on others.

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Any healer thinks they need to 100% heal 24/7 in a DF is a bad healer, period. A bad healer is one that does not learn when to heal and when not to heal, a bad healer is not adjusting, a bad healer is having this mentality of "I am a healer not a DPS so I do not have to put in effort everyone else does"



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgM...youtu.be&t=557

also why in the hell did this thread pass this one:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-now-./page49

in 12~!!!!!!! HOURS?!!?!?!?!?!

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Originally Posted by missybee

Thank you for this response. Sometimes it is hard not to see red with all of the ridiculous statements flying around here on the OF, but I feel like this is an extremely reasonable and inoffensive thing to say.

I wish more people understood that what the majority of players want is for their teammates to try. I 100% get that life happens. I have definitely let people die as a healer due to stupid stuff happening, and I just apologize and continue to do my best from that point onward.

Basically, if I am in a party with a healer and I see them hop into Cleric Stance even just occasionally, I will be silently grateful that they are at least putting forth an effort.

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Yep to try, I do not expect people be good as me or my friends, but there is no reason to take a SCh in sasha, afk follow the tank and for that to be acceptable because yoshi-p says healer DPS is not required. Though keep in mind for sasha you need to input the following as SCH to clear the run:

/follow the tank

back off from follow when you get to cat boss (because paralyze blocks your follow)

When that boss dies, go back on follow and watch netflix/ tetris online/ play with your iphone, etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Why am I not surprised that you can't comprehend such a simple concept.

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Why can't you understand a simple concept? You read the story on the first page of this thread? A shield healer (AST) while giving out buffs, was able to out dps 2 DPS, a tank, and a pure regen healer, the pure regen healer was out dps by a range lb, while the shield healer outhealed this person as well. People where taking more then needed damage as well, standing in aoes, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by missybee

What are you even trying to say?

Edit inc - hint enter early whoops

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Why even bother:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ungeon-content
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ine-Earth-Time
literally clueless. you try to explain something how something works and the reply is:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Not actually how that works, otherwise I could just go in and change my computer's clock and have the resets happen whenever I wanted.

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So when you answer a question they have, and answer it correctly they state "that is not how it works"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Is your name attached to those quotes? No? I wonder why that is...


http://i.imgur.com/Twj2yEg.jpg

You are factually wrong, period. Like, there isn't even a debate to be had here.


I know common sense is a rare trait on the internet, but please, at least try to have some.

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You are the one that is wrong! Why can't you accept how things really work? same with your reset question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

Overwatch would be a VERY poor example. Overwatch is a competitive pvp game. They have to do both with that character or you'll likely lose the match.

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The only thing poor here is your post, it is the same situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Refer to the post literally right before yours.

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Why are you spaming showing you do not understand facts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

I hope both the pot and the kettle are dealing damage too! XD

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You know, I am starting to think all these pure healer people are the ones that can't DPS and lead to wipes when they do. Why else would they be toxic to healers that can DPS and heal and while DPSing and heal, manage to out heal them as well? I never thought I see the day where a sheild using ast would out DPS- 2 dps, a tank and the co healer while outhealing the cohealer who had regens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lulunami

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/...-expecting.jpg

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Want to see that in action?
https://youtu.be/pZemm35fqYA?t=52
HEY just like this thread in general

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Haven't read any of the thread yet, but I will go back and read it.


Lazy player argument.

Every player should try and spend every gcd on a skill useful for the group.


The content design in this game doesn't require healing fulltime, there will be healing downtime.



Keeping your party safe should be a very high priority for a healer.
But, after that there's nothing else to do but spend those gcd's on damage.

If we compare healers and other classes...
A healer who only has to heal every 6~10 seconds and refuses to do damage in the meantime is equivalanet to another class using a skill every 3rd or 4th gcd.

This is not parity.
This is laziness.




A quote on that subject.

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Can't use Assize as a pure healer, it does damage

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Originally Posted by Miyha

I just realized the drama unfolding with this kitti person. This is super entertaining. :x

People get so salty when it comes to healer DPS. I'll never understand why. Those in the pro-healer DPS camp just support your growth and progress as a player. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Either way though. /popcorn

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Because they are clueless while insulting those that are trying to be reasonable?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abriael

A "modicum of effort" has different definitions for different people in different circumstances. What can be easy as pie for me, can be difficult for others. I don't go out of my way to assume that the one I have in front of me has the experience, hand-eye coordination, physical ability or simply the energy to do more than his job. And most content in this game is designed so that if everyone does "his job" the party will be successful.

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If someone finds pressing one button a minute difficult they should not be playing this game. People are simply asking for effort, not this "I am not dpsing because yoshi -p said it is not required"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

Oh please, everything in this game is going to have some sort of lore explanation for its existence. Even glamour does. I would most certainly not take that as the game telling healers to dps.

And what solo content are you even speaking of? Cause the solo I'm speaking should obviously be open world, fates, hunts, and leveling in general. I assume you mean class quests but, those are more to teach you how to use your spells in general than to teach a role. Healer class quests are bad in that regard anyway as they usually have someone else healing instead.

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Funny, Healers can't solo full credit hunts when DPS can. Clearly the game design is DPS your way though everything.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

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dat 1 APM though...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uzephi

Because I want to watch netflix while my eos does everything in the lower level dungeons and just have someone on follow, dur. /s

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But but that is what yoshi-p said the game is deigned for!! are you sure about that /s?
The text that you have entered is too long (14510 characters). Please shorten it to 1000 characters long.
=.= the joy of strict daily post limits.

Read the first 2 pages of this thread, and then the last 2.

The only thought i had was oh well they had the same up and down arguing for the last 60 pages damn they must be bored as hell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abriael

No, The first two lines are responding to you, since you seem to think you know what the "community" thinks and feels.

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Read my post again. I'm not speaking on behalf of "The Community" (which doesn't exist in a monolithic way, anyways). I'm saying that game design A (not enough incoming damage) naturally leads to player expectation B (healers should use all those unused GCDs to contribute damage). If the Devs don't want B, they should remedy A (by keeping healers busy with healing).

Players will always look to optimize gameplay contributions (especially for other people :cool:). If you want to allow people to tank or heal without being expected to contribute DPS, keep them busy with tank mitigation/threat and healing/buffing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Khankra

Read the first 2 pages of this thread, and then the last 2.

The only thought i had was oh well they had the same up and down arguing for the last 60 pages damn they must be bored as hell.

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Dude, someone is wrong on the internet (!!).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

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If I ask a slow-pulling tank to please pull more and they say no and another party membe backs them up, I will save them the effort of vote-kicking and leave on my own.