#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Kira619

No it's not what's clearly applied, that is what you're projecting because you disagree with my statements. If I believe everything is the way most people want it, I would say it. But I didn't, because I surely don't believe nor do I know that "everything" is the way most people want it.
The key term, is everything. Hence why I said, stick to what's actually be said, aka the specifics. So sticking to the specifics, do I believe that more people view that tanks are more squishy, hence the addition to tank migration in comparison to the opposite viewpoint here? Yes, that is what I do believe.



Oh yes, Square should certainly focus on this subset group of forum posters in one particular demographic over the majority of players from multiple different regions. That would go across fantastic...

I work in IT. The fact that they shutdown the forums indicates that all the regions were providing massive amount of negative feedback. Not just English speakers, and not just a couple of threads. The fact that they haven't even shut down the english section (which they could if it was a massive as some people say), let alone the forums as a whole, says something.

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Alright then, how many threads and forums are there in each region about people complaining that tanks are too squishy? Healers have been complaining for 3 expansions and this protest thread is over 500 pages in two weeks.
We can also say forums only reflect the vocal minority and not necessarily popular opinion. That is true, but that doesn't mean those who are vocal never reflect popular opinion.
Alright then, when healers complain for over 6 years, culminating in a protest thread over 500 pages long in two weeks gaining attention from content creators, influencers and gaming news outlets, it doesn't reflect a popular opinion.
But I suppose when there are no comparable complaints about tanks on any platform, tanks being too squishy is the popular opinion based on... I suppose the holy decree of square enix, or assumption based on nothing. You tell me.
I'll apply this reasoning and say that many in other regions feel the same but just aren't vocal about it.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Alright then, how many threads and forums are there in each region about people complaining that tanks are too squishy? Healers have been complaining for 3 expansions and this protest thread is over 500 pages in two weeks.
We can also say forums only reflect the vocal minority and not necessarily popular opinion. That is true, but that doesn't mean those who are vocal never reflect popular opinion.
Alright then, when healers complain for over 6 years, culminating in a protest thread over 500 pages long in two weeks gaining attention from content creators, influencers and gaming news outlets, it doesn't reflect a popular opinion.
But I suppose when there are no comparable complaints about tanks on any platform, tanks being too squishy is the popular opinion based on... I suppose the holy decree of square enix, or assumption based on nothing. You tell me.
I'll apply this reasoning and say that many in other regions feel the same but just aren't vocal about it.

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And you know that there have been no threads anywhere providing feedback about tanks being squishy how? Or that's right, you somehow came across every single final fantasy forum, gaming news outlet, in every single language across the planet. But surely other regions are feeling the same thing because they HAVE to align with your mindset. How dare other regions possibly have a different viewpoint then your own.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I love how for tanks it's "too squishy" but for healers it's "bad players". Very nice double standard.

It's just not possible tanks are in the state they are in cos many of them suck huh? Nah that can't be why some are basically immortal.

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When tanks are bad they get buffed into immortality

When healers are bad they get nerfed into irrelevancy

Definitely no double standards here

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Originally Posted by Kira619

The key term, is everything. Hence why I said, stick to what's actually be said, aka the specifics. So sticking to the specifics, do I believe that more people view that tanks are more squishy, hence the addition to tank migration in comparison to the opposite viewpoint here? Yes, that is what I do believe.

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Are we playing the same game? In what way tanks are too squishy?

Also if you want an example of a truly squishy tank, try BLU Tank, base caster HP, while also at the same time missing the whole weapon worth of VIT. And while they do have 20% max HP upkeep buff, it's still calculated from that same caster HP minus weapon worth of VIT.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

I disagree. Having a gameplay loop of optimizing your healing is even more important on healers. DPS and tank jobs, though already pretty braindead, already have a core gameplay loop.

If healing is just super free where is the depth of the healer role?

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Damage trade off on heals from specifically healers, without first enforcing that on all heals from other roles, will make it even more difficult to have content of various difficulty levels where bringing a healer is optimal. And since most good players will want to contribute to running content optimally, will push healers even more into a green dps role.

Healers feeling like they are not part of the optimal way to play the game, and healers not being rewarded for healing, are big reasons for this strike. Any big changes to healers should also improve those aspects, or at least not make them worse.

What a bummer... I was excited for the double dot on SGE. Was hoping for a return of this "difficulty" layer.
It's really hard to understand the Dev team. Their visions seem so different from the players and obviously it will be always like this. Yet, we have no idea what they're discussing and who is against certain changes. It's also like "the concept sounds good on paper", but it is barely fun to play.
This reminds me a lot of Eureka release. They had the genius idea, that we had to chain trash monsters 200x to gain single digit clusters. The FATE trains started, cause players couldnt be bothered by this idea.

If the Devs really want healers to be heal bots they need to remove all healing from DPS and nerf burst heals on healers. You cant expect a class to do one thing when that one thing can be done with a single oGCD. Even in old MMOs from the 2000s with healbot class your heals were nowhere near as strong as a single oGCD heal in XIV. The hilarity of them wanting to make healers only heal but not adding depth or complication to healing is so funny.

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Originally Posted by Kira619

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I really appreciate that you have taken the time to provide feedback, but we have to be honest here. Tanks are not squishy in FFXIV, I have completed coils with my Paladin synced, OT Myths of the realm and as far as "casual" dungeon and trial content is concerned even my gunbreaker feels study enough to take a good few hits without panicking. When I am healing I find that if you have a warrior as tank you can just chill and focus on green dps throwing out the odd tetra/DB/Regen and if things get spicy some regen, aoe healing and Assize.

A good tank using their abilities correctly and not face tanking mechanics should never die to a buster or incoming damage from the boss. Its actually laughable that dungeon mobs can be more threatening that some boss damage mechanics for tanks. The front page post highlights succinctly the concerns that healers have in FFXIV. I have mained healer in every MMO I have played, I really enjoy FFXIV, I love the story and I think I speak for most here when I say we are not being mood hoovers, what we are saying is that healers don't have any real skill expression or agency in how they play, the skill floor is relatively low, the leveling experience for new players is dreadful.

Have you leveled a white mage from 1-90?, if so share your experience, if you haven't, please do so and let me know how monotonous that experience was when dpsing mobs. Healer's shouldn't be highly effective at DPS compared to DD, but there should be a trade off for when you switch from healing mode to damage mode, that is not there, there is no synergy between heal and dps play style in FFXIV.

The starter journey for most jobs in FFXIV is slow and lethargic but as you level up you, you can feel the potency difference in your abilities and your character getting stronger. This is not the case with healers, and it's not limited solely to WHM, look at Sage, SCH and AST read the feedback players who enjoy playing these jobs are providing.

You work in IT so you have an understanding of ITIL/ITSM with the end goal being continual service improvement, what this thread is aiming to do is no different, it is end-users providing feedback on where they think the service can be improved. Everyone who has commented in relation to healer issues is a paying customer, clearly they are concerned about the product and only wish for it to be better, this is the core tenant of customer service excellence. Rather than shouting down and dismissing these concerns - people should encourage and support it.

Sadly the majority of people who has posted against healer concerns have largely just dismissed genuine feedback as healers "having a whinge" or being negative nelly's. This can't be further from the truth.

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Originally Posted by rawker

I was leading more onto the "defensiveness" of the PLD's kit, as advertised when it became redundant due to fights already figured out that optimization meant to exclude them. It is being repeated, this time, to an entire role.

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Ah yes that too. I remember my pf raid team back then had a wow paladin main who refused to play DRK or WAR because they were "fuckin stupid and gay" and he would constantly go on about how tanks should use shields and stuff. So I never really experienced that since he was our raid leader.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

What a bummer... I was excited for the double dot on SGE. Was hoping for a return of this "difficulty" layer.
It's really hard to understand the Dev team. Their visions seem so different from the players and obviously it will be always like this. Yet, we have no idea what they're discussing and who is against certain changes. It's also like "the concept sounds good on paper", but it is barely fun to play.
This reminds me a lot of Eureka release. They had the genius idea, that we had to chain trash monsters 200x to gain single digit clusters. The FATE trains started, cause players couldnt be bothered by this idea.

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Yea the so called DPS healer got exactly nothing in terms of damage abilities outside exactly dungeon trash pulls, the place where healers are at their most useless. Atleast when you eventually do get a toxikon again during the fight you might aswell use it?

Without e dyskrasia SGE has actually received a massive nerf relative to SCH damage and healing wise

They have two jobs that are 99% the same and they still can’t balance them to save themselves

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

Are we playing the same game? In what way tanks are too squishy?

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Meanwhile,

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Tenacity's effect on damage dealt, damage received, and HP restored has been increased.

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:)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Without e dyskrasia SGE has actually received a massive nerf relative to SCH damage and healing wise

They have two jobs that are 99% the same and they still can’t balance them to save themselves

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I CANT STOP LAUGHING

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

Meanwhile,

:)

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I'd assume it's now the same as Det, but who knows.

Oh, wow.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/

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Tank
To offer more leniency while mitigating powerful enemy attacks, we have increased the effect duration of Reprisal. Additionally, we've improved tanks' overall defensive capabilities by adding an effect to Rampart that increases HP recovery via healing actions, and supplemented each tank job with an upgraded version of their damage-reducing abilities.

Melee DPS
To offer more leniency while mitigating powerful enemy attacks, we have increased the effect duration of Feint.

Physical Ranged DPS
To enhance overall party support, we've increased the effectiveness of defensive buffs for all jobs.

Magical Ranged DPS
To help streamline combat, the recast time of Swiftcast has been reduced. Furthermore, to offer more leniency while mitigating powerful enemy attacks, we have increased the effect duration of Addle.

Healer
To help streamline combat, the recast time of Swiftcast has been reduced.

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They are cooking.
We're going to see SO MUCH incoming damage, healers surely will have to heal more.

I love how all of the healer jobs state they gained their new offensive actions to "increase attack variance".

Yeah, hitting one new button once every two minutes if you're not SGE ain't it, nor was making Eukrasian Dykrasia not stack with the other DoT.

Where was that info? I didn’t see it in the new Patch Notes (I even used CTRL-F).

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Originally Posted by ToodlesElNoodles

Where was that info? I didn’t see it in the new Patch Notes (I even used CTRL-F).

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It's in the updated Job Guide under Patch 7.0 Adjustments Overview.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/

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Originally Posted by ToodlesElNoodles

Where was that info? I didn’t see it in the new Patch Notes (I even used CTRL-F).

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Job changes have moved to the Job Guide section of the lodestone here.

Thank God I don't play healer

bruh these healer job changes
as someone who plays whm/ast/sch i looked over them and wow man
it's basically nothing
also ast looks like it'll be using even more buttons than before since playing a card involves play 1, play 2, and play 3 instead of just a single play button but maybe i'm mistaken
whm is like, they get glare 4, medica 3, and what looks like ast's dome thing
and sch gets some ability on a 3m cd that turns its current heals a little bit stronger, and an aoe to pair with its 2m buff
bro this actually blows, like there's no way you can look at this and say the devs aren't just in a rut at this point.

SAGE: “To increase attack variation during periods when healing isn't required, new actions such as Eukrasian Dyskrasia and Psyche have been added.”

SCHOLAR: “ To increase attack variation, we have added Baneful Impaction, which can be executed after using Chain Strategem.”

Just…wow…it’s like they *almost* understand the problem. Why doesn’t the “…attack variation during periods when healing isn’t needed…” applied to AST/WHM/SCH too?

Also, AST/WHM getting more mitigation and SCH/SGE getting more burst healing…essentially shows that Pure/Barrier Split is a failure?

It really says a lot by far the biggest change to SCH isn’t even mentioned in its “explanation of changes”

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Originally Posted by ToodlesElNoodles

Also, AST/WHM getting more mitigation and SCH/SGE getting more burst healing…essentially shows that Pure/Barrier Split is a failure?

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Always has been.

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Thank God I don't play healer

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Bless your soul. I wouldn't recommend at all.

These jobs aren't being designed by somebody who -wants- to play them.

Cards on the table I’ve been basically cringing at the healer strike for the last two weeks. I’d agreed with it but because of what we saw in the media tour I thought the devs had relented *just* enough for me to have some hopium for the role.

Upon reading the final job changes, fuck that. I’m in. If they can’t bother keeping macrocosmos damage neutral, if they won’t let us keep the double DoT on sage, if they want to keep buffing tank sustain then what the hell are they doing?

I’m not touching healers until they decide they want to make the role fun. #ffxivhealerstrike

The JP Sage thread is celebrating E Dyskrasia no longer stacking so there's clearly an audience they're catering to.

Genuinely I’m done bowing to the whims of the JP playerbase, the last recent survey showed they are a vast minority in the game (like 25% of the playerbase at most)

Why are they even excited, what benefit does this give the job. If your design goal amounts to “i want to be carried whole only half paying attention” you have no business asking for job changes

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Genuinely I’m done bowing to the whims of the JP playerbase, the last recent survey showed they are a vast minority in the game (like 25% of the playerbase at most)

Why are they even excited, what benefit does this give the job. If your design goal amounts to “i want to be carried whole only half paying attention” you have no business asking for job changes

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Honestly just play other MMOs for good healing, JP players are stuck in Classic WoW healer design (ironically designed worsed) and even tank tbh. JP players are not tab target MMO players the game catering to them will be objectively worse for people who have played these MMOs for years, compared to like Koreans and even Chinese players, JP have the most archaic opinions on tab-target MMOs and its not even close.

It's just...confusing why they want healers to just be healers in a gameplay environment that has repeatedly proven to not be designed with such as the top priority.

It wouldn't surprise me if the sole reason Eurkrasian Dyskrasia got nerfed from the media tour was because of their whining.

Astro mains should be happy in 2 years they will get gap closer

Look, everyone, it's all explained here, we just didn't read it correctly: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/ I quote:

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Healers use restorative arts to mend wounded companions. They can also help to mitigate damage, remove detrimental effects, and even bring fallen allies back to life.

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So now that there are no wounded companions and our help with mitigation is not needed, our job is quite obvious - start spamming Esuna and revive, they have even reduced the cooldown on Swiftcast to make that easier!!

Jokes aside, casual looking for a non-healer job to main in DT, hit me up with suggestions, thanks in advance :)

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Originally Posted by Kozmakis

Look, everyone, it's all explained here, we just didn't read it correctly: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/ I quote:

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Healers use restorative arts to mend wounded companions. They can also help to mitigate damage, remove detrimental effects, and even bring fallen allies back to life.

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So now that there are no wounded companions and we our help with mitigation is not needed, our job is quite obvious - start spamming Esuna and revive, they have even reduced the cooldown on Swiftcast to make that easier!!

Jokes aside, casual looking for a non-healer job to main in DT, hit me up with suggestions, thanks in advance :)

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Play the one true healer, WAR

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

Play the one true healer, WAR

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patch notes for 7.1:

Nascent Flash will now revive if used on a downed party member,

Additional Esuna effect to Nascent/Bloodwhetting

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It's just...confusing why they want healers to just be healers in a gameplay environment that has repeatedly proven to not be designed with such as the top priority.

It wouldn't surprise me if the sole reason Eurkrasian Dyskrasia got nerfed from the media tour was because of their whining.

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If I were to guess, they dont get super emotionally about the changes. Let me quote a popular post from a japanese player.

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Originally Posted by tanukimaru

ヒーラーの場合、味方の技量の影響が大きいと思う
もし味方が全員完璧に動く事が出来、タイムラインによって決められたダメージしか受けなければ
ヒーラーの仕事は決められた時間に決められたスキルを使うだけだ
それはとても単純なDPSロールになる

もっとも通常のコンテンツでは実際にそうなる事は少ない
味方のミスをフォローする為にタイムラインには無い回復や蘇生を要求されることになる
ただし高難易度になるほどミスは許容されなくなる
その結果我々がフォロー出来る範囲が少なく1つのミスがパーティを崩壊させリスタートしてしまうことになる

半壊したパーティを立て直すことはヒーラーの腕の見せ所の一つだが
高難易度になればなるほどその機会は失われる

つまり私の不満は一度のミスが取り返しのつかない結果になるコンテンツのデザインだ
普段は退屈でも味方がミスをした時にフォロー出来るような役割であると嬉しい

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Originally Posted by tanukimaru

I think the skill of your allies has a lot of influence when it comes to healers. If all your allies can move perfectly and only take damage as determined by the timeline. The healer's job is just to use a certain skill at a certain time. It would be a very simple DPS roll.

But in normal content, that's rarely actually the case. You'll be asked to heal or revive people who aren't on the timeline to follow up on mistakes made by your allies. However, the higher the difficulty level, the less mistakes are tolerated. As a result, there's less scope for us to follow up, and one mistake can destroy the party and restart it.
Rebuilding a half-destroyed party is one of the healer's greatest skills. The higher the difficulty level, the more opportunities are lost.

So my gripe is the design of the content, where one mistake has irreversible consequences. I'd be happy to be in a role that's usually boring but can follow up when an ally makes a mistake

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And honestly, they're not wrong either. I'm not sure if I want to sit there and spam my GCD heals until I'm depleted of MP, but one thing is certain. If you use heal GCD's, you're dealing no DPS. And no matter what content you do, providing no DPS means longer fights. And we all know the toxicity when players are underperforming and fights taking ages.
It doesn't mean that healers should have nothing to do, though. There should be a few more layers for management, so you can be a useful companion - when basic content becomes a snooze fest.

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Originally Posted by Kozmakis

Look, everyone, it's all explained here, we just didn't read it correctly: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/battle/ I quote:

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Healers use restorative arts to mend wounded companions. They can also help to mitigate damage, remove detrimental effects, and even bring fallen allies back to life.

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So now that there are no wounded companions and our help with mitigation is not needed, our job is quite obvious - start spamming Esuna and revive, they have even reduced the cooldown on Swiftcast to make that easier!!

Jokes aside, casual looking for a non-healer job to main in DT, hit me up with suggestions, thanks in advance :)

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I went for Dancer because the proc-based rotation is scratching the itch of semi-randomness I'm used from Astrologian. I'm having a blast and I'll be raiding as DNC in Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

If I were to guess, they dont get super emotionally about the changes. Let me quote a popular post from a japanese player.





And honestly, they're not wrong either. I'm not sure if I want to sit there and spam my GCD heals until I'm depleted of MP, but one thing is certain. If you use heal GCD's, you're dealing no DPS. And no matter what content you do, providing no DPS means longer fights. And we all know the toxicity when players are underperforming and fights taking ages.
It doesn't mean that healers should have nothing to do, though. There should be a few more layers for management, so you can be a useful companion - when basic content becomes a snooze fest.

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I agree with them. I have way more fun healing Dun Scaith than I have your average Savage/Extreme past the progression phase. It's chaos and more people mess up, giving me something to do.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Bless your soul. I wouldn't recommend at all.

These jobs aren't being designed by somebody who -wants- to play them.

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I‘m not sure if this still holds true, but I think they have no dedicated Healer in their job design team, do they?
Just remembering back when Yoshi-P and the team showed us the new PVP mode and nobody played healer. Or when they did a „surprised pikachu face“ when people were pissed and wanted a new healer when dancer was revealed to be a DPS. They seriously don‘t care about the role and it shows :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

That implies the car was going somewhere to begin with

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That feel when the carbon monoxide poisoning hits...
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Originally Posted by Aravell

Not only is the difficulty curve all kinds of messed up due to the over-accessibility of the game and jobs, I have to ask why does every job have to be accessible to everyone?

This game has the advantage of allowing the player to swap to any job without starting a brand new character. So why does it matter if some jobs are a little more inaccessible to the average player? Why is it so imperative to make every job simple so that everyone can play all 19 (soon 21) jobs?

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That might be the reason, job swapping is a key feature this MMO has over most other ones, so from Square-Enix's point of view, any job that's inaccessible is "doing it wrong" and needs to be adjusted to work in lock-step with the others, with regards to their respective roles anyway. I mean, I know I don't care to play things like AST/MNK/SAM/BRD/BLM because I find them hard to use (conversely, I don't like WAR/WHM because they're *too* braindead). And while I can certainly swap off, that's still 7 jobs I leave to level up last via solo content because I don't like playing as them otherwise (and before anyone asks, no I don't see the changes coming to AST/MNK/BLM making me change my mind on them).

Of course, this raises the question of why SE would make an entire role unfun to play in the case of healers... but then accessibility seems to be the priority and not necessarily entertainment value, hence how we also ended up with overtuned tanks as well because they wanted *more* people to be *less* intimidated by the role. I'm not rightly sure what the solution would be either because "just make things harder" is more likely to drive folks away from a role (if not the game), and if the bulk of jobs became complicated, you'd have a lot of people only playing the select few that aren't because the risk of failure isn't worth the supposed "reward" that others claim to find by playing a hard job.

It's a case of I don't want to step on the toes of those wanting something more dynamic and challenging, but I don't want to get filtered out of more content than I am already, and SE being unsure how to appease both because as this topic shows, you can't lower the bar too much or you render not only jobs but an entire role completely defunct, but if they make a role too intimidating and overpower it as compensation you'll just end up with people making "beat endgame with 4 White Mages" videos instead.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

I‘m not sure if this still holds true, but I think they have no dedicated Healer in their job design team, do they?
Just remembering back when Yoshi-P and the team showed us the new PVP mode and nobody played healer. Or when they did a „surprised pikachu face“ when people were pissed and wanted a new healer when dancer was revealed to be a DPS. They seriously don‘t care about the role and it shows :rolleyes:

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The only thing I remember about the team and healers is when they had to find a new healer for testing their dungeons, because the one they were using cleared a Savage, so they needed a lower skill healer. And man, does it show that they balance content around a lower skilled player...