Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

MageBlack nailed it.

It would be easier to argue how simply "making FFXIV more like FFXI" would actually harm its subscription base. There are things that can be revisited, but with a fresh-eye.

Off-Topic

Well the only time i was reading something about 1,5m was the copys they are sold from the game, after the free month it turned into arround 600k Subs. (this was my latest update about the numbers)

WoW still has near 6M subbings but arround 50% of them are only Chinese Playerbase because Blizzard were smart enough to translate the game in Chinese and thats a known fact.

Casual Players run from one Game to another and rarely stick 5-10 Years to one Game because they cant or dont want to. (my personal experience with casuals, no offense at all)

I want to see how much Subs this Game will lose this Year when The new WoW Expansion, Wildstar Online, ESO , Black Desert Online, EQN will be released.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

Considering the amount of complaining and carrying-on that I see on this forum on a daily basis about Coil not being in the Party Finder, or, "It's too hard to make my own group, SE stop letting people use a different comp that doesn't favor me!," I have this feeling that it's not quite as easy as you seem to believe it is.

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Yeah sure there's one or two things that require some braincells but it can be bypass with some gil. Except housing, that's the toughest part of this game.

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Originally Posted by Arkune

WoW still has near 6M subbings but arround 50% of them are only Chinese Playerbase because Blizzard were smart enough to translate the game in Chinese and thats a known fact.

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It's actually closer to 8 million. And your "known facts" are, in fact, not accurate. :)

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Casual Players run from one Game to another and rarely stick 5-10 Years to one Game because they cant or dont want to. (my personal experience with casuals, no offense at all)

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The definition of "casual" changes so drastically from person to person that I can't say anything but that you are incorrect. Casual players tend to exist in greater numbers, and they tend to stick with the games they enjoy playing - because they don't exhaust the content at the rate that hardcore players do. They still have tons of stuff left while the hardcore players are on the forums, screaming that there's nothing to do. Those hardcore players then jump ship to do something else while waiting for the next patch. Meanwhile, the casual players are still paying their subs and continuing to play.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Yeah sure there's one or two things that require some braincells but it can be bypass with some gil. Except housing, that's the toughest part of this game.

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Like I said earlier, I'm not arguing that the content is super hard. I know Twintania is a check, but it's about the only one that I've seen. There just tend to be fewer mechanics in each fight, although, admittedly, the individual mechanics can be quite punishing. I, for one, would love for SE to start designing more complicated and intricate fights. I'm just not sure that it's possible without making it so complicated that people would likely need a way to track timers, etc (i.e. DBM).

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Originally Posted by Vandark

No matter what takeing things from a game thats been done once like XI VS taking things from a game thats been replicated a billion times, which game is still more original?

Taking good things from XI which was an epic game and implementing them in a new way for ARR would make ARR more original than it's competition which all share the same traditional over done dieing trend of MMO's.

What would you rather Square Enix join this horrible trend or put more of a spin on there game by bring back of there own ideas.

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You still have yet to provide a coherent and logical reason why SE should scrap what they're doing and copy a game that has never achieved even half the success that ARR has right now.

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Originally Posted by Gideon

How is it unique if its just like FFXI with less grind? Wouldnt that make it a FFXI clone? Arent clones bad? Or a copy and paste? Which also, based off your previous argument, is also bad?

C'mon bro.

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No matter what takeing things from a game thats been done once like XI VS taking things from a game thats been replicated a billion times, which game is still more original?

Taking good things from XI which was an epic game and implementing them in a new way for ARR would make ARR more original than it's competition which all share the same traditional over done dieing trend of MMO's.

What would you rather, Square Enix remain in this horrible trend it's joined or put more of a spin on there game by bringing back some of there own ideas.

By saying don't take things from XI your basically asking them to abandon whats there's. Years of MMO progression in there own way flushed down the toilet in an instant, seems like an awful waste of a whole world of useful materials to take ideas from.

It's like a nerd becoming an alcoholic just because the other kids would peer pressure him into being something he was never supposed to be.

Let Final Fantasy be Final Fantasy and stop trying to destroy the game with oh we don't need this oh we don't need that.

The game needs alot of content and I think SE should go back to there roots a little and bring back some seriously imersive game play.

I think a good idea would be to make a thread that said "Make ARR more it's own game" rather than comparing it to any other game, because what the majority of people here criticizing ARR just want a different type of MMO, one that does not follow the EQ/WoW formula and it's tons of clones.

The main problem here is that FFXI was a game with a LOT of personality, compared to the rest of the flavors on the market, so many FF fans and specially the XI veterans expected with XIV something similar a MMO different from the rest, but in touch with XI. When 1.0 delivered, it had those qualities, the problem was that everything was broken, even down to the payment system (I still have nightmares with click & buy), but it had very strong concepts.

Yoshi making a remake and trying to take the game up to global standards isn't a bad idea in itself, but then again, what (in my opinion and many others) all he did was to pick up ALL the global standards (those set by WoW mostly), the good and the bad, and discarded anything related to FFXI or XIV, good or bad.

Why couldn't he just pick up v1.0, change the graphic engine, fix the broken add some good things from other games and keep the real FF feel? I can't think of a single game mechanic in ARR that relates directly to any other FF game apart of the class/job switching. The twitch combat, the simple stats, the no elemental wheel, the lack of interesting materia, the purely vertical approach to equipment, and so on... those do not belong into a Final Fantasy many of the old fans want to play.

The thread discussion is not really about making ARR into FFXI-2, that may have been OP's intention, but the discussion is no longer about that, so maybe a new thread with another title and different OP could bring more to the table.

Also, to clarify some points: To all those saying "If you like X so much go back to X" where X is XI, WoW, EQ, UO, etc... those games are no longer the games we liked and enjoyed, and if we are asking for something those games had it's because they don't have it anymore, and we are looking to find it somewhere else (in this case in FFXIV). If X game was still like back then, we would be playing it instead of arguing in these forums.

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Originally Posted by Arkune

Off-Topic

Well the only time i was reading something about 1,5m was the copys they are sold from the game, after the free month it turned into arround 600k Subs. (this was my latest update about the numbers)

WoW still has near 6M subbings but arround 50% of them are only Chinese Playerbase because Blizzard were smart enough to translate the game in Chinese and thats a known fact.

Casual Players run from one Game to another and rarely stick 5-10 Years to one Game because they cant or dont want to. (my personal experience with casuals, no offense at all)

I want to see how much Subs this Game will lose this Year when The new WoW Expansion, Wildstar Online, ESO , Black Desert Online, EQN will be released.

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My personal experience iwth Hardcores is they go from game to game consuming content like a shark, Never stopping, always moving.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

this.

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exactly this, thank you.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

My personal experience iwth Hardcores is they go from game to game consuming content like a shark, Never stopping, always moving.

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you ever asked yourself why hardcore Players do this?

I never had any Problems to run out of Content in XI, due the armory System (XI one) and the Content with ZM,CoP,Wotg, the Gear Switch System and complex battlesystem u were never finished. Exactly this we could have, if yoshi sticked to the 1.23 Combatsystem.
This thread wasnt created to talk about a XI-2 HD Edition, all we asking for is more deph and Long Lasting Content and Equip with fights we can Enjoy and Long Story Line to get acces to open World Areas. Not more. not less, no1 asking for a death Penalty or 7 Months Grind for Level 75.

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Originally Posted by Arkune

exactly this, thank you.

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It's nothing, just trying to add some reason and logic to the thread and forums while my sub runs out.

How about those who want more FF11....play FF11? Seems legit.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

I think a good idea would be to make a thread that said "Make ARR more it's own game" rather than comparing it to any other game, because what the majority of people here criticizing ARR just want a different type of MMO, one that does not follow the EQ/WoW formula and it's tons of clones.

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I liked your post just for this line. Make FFXIV its own game. Not FFXI. Not WoW. Not EQ, or SWTOR, or Rift.

But I also think that taking things that worked from all of those games is not a bad thing. Making a concerted effort to have content for casual users as well as more hardcore users is something that I think this game is really trying to embrace. I think that's a good thing (even if I don't completely agree with how they've gone about it).

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Originally Posted by Arkune

exactly this, thank you.



you ever asked yourself why hardcore Players do this?

I never had any Problems to run out of Content in XI, due the armory System (XI one) and the Content with ZM,CoP,Wotg, the Gear Switch System and complex battlesystem u were never finished. Exactly this we could have, if yoshi sticked to the 1.23 Combatsystem.
This thread wasnt created to talk about a XI-2 HD Edition, all we asking for is more deph and Long Lasting Content and Equip with fights we can Enjoy and Long Story Line to get acces to open World Areas. Not more. not less, no1 asking for a death Penalty or 7 Months Grind for Level 75.

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are you sure the 7 month grind wasn't why no one ever finished?

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Originally Posted by SerenitySilvermoon

How about those who want more FF11....play FF11? Seems legit.

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Troll Spottet!

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

You still have yet to provide a coherent and logical reason why SE should scrap what they're doing and copy a game that has never achieved even half the success that ARR has right now.

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Well you have a clue about the history of XI?

1) Final Fantasy XIV had alot more Promotion then XI.

2) XI were only aviable in Game Import Shops and pretty much unknown in the EU. It arrived the EU market at the end of 2004 but it was only aviable in English, not everyone speak/understand English if their Main Language is German/French etc.

3) 2007 was the first big language Patch with German and French and this patch came a way too late because WoW already ruled the MMO Market.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

are you sure the 7 month grind wasn't why no one ever finished?

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Well, i am sure it wasnt because of the 7 Months grind, you had YEARS to obtain your Items, and it took you Years to max out a Job (Best in Slot) because the Linkshell rotate Content and not every Content had something for your Class you wanted to max out.

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Originally Posted by Arkune

Well you have a clue about the history of XI?

1) Final Fantasy XIV had alot more Promotion then XI.

2) XI were only aviable in Game Import Shops and pretty much unknown in the EU. It arrived the EU market at the end of 2004 but it was only aviable in English, not everyone speak/understand English if their Main Language is German/French etc.

3) 2007 was the first big language Patch with German and French and this patch came a way too late because WoW already ruled the MMO Market.

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None of this, in any way, changes that XI has never been nearly as successful as this game currently is.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

I think a good idea would be to make a thread that said "Make ARR more it's own game" rather than comparing it to any other game, because what the majority of people here criticizing ARR just want a different type of MMO, one that does not follow the EQ/WoW formula and it's tons of clones.

.

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Hey Dannythm, Rokien here, I'll be playing eqnext when it comes out, should try and find me on there, we can play together. We seem to have the same mindset. Dannas29 is my skype.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

None of this, in any way, changes that XI has never been nearly as successful as this game currently is.

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Because more people play angry birds than this game, does that mean angry birds is a better game?

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Originally Posted by ErBear

Because more people play angry birds than this game, does that mean angry birds is a better game?

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That and early success doesn't really mean much to begin with. I'm sure newer mmos all tend to get over 1mil subs till the next hype comes along. When FFXIV starts to make more money than FFXI ever did then we can talk about it being more successful but still that doesn't mean it's a better game. Just means it appeals to a wider audience like McDonalds appeals to a wider audience.

btw Welcome back Rokien!

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Originally Posted by Arkune

Off-Topic

Well the only time i was reading something about 1,5m was the copys they are sold from the game, after the free month it turned into arround 600k Subs. (this was my latest update about the numbers)

WoW still has near 6M subbings but arround 50% of them are only Chinese Playerbase because Blizzard were smart enough to translate the game in Chinese and thats a known fact.

Casual Players run from one Game to another and rarely stick 5-10 Years to one Game because they cant or dont want to. (my personal experience with casuals, no offense at all)

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sorry, but in my 15+ years of MMO experience, I've seen that it is pretty much the exact opposite of what you've said here in bold.

Casual players generally stick to one game, because they don't have the time or funds to juggle multiple MMOs. they play their One game at their own casual pace, and they see the "endgame" at some point in the distant future. they build their network of friends, guilds, server communities based around the one game and they dedicate themselves, thematically, to one game. unless that game does something extremely bad (i.e. SWG's NGE) to push them away. this is why older (meaning pre-WoW) MMOs still have any populations at all.

It is the "hardcores" that move from game to game. They buy a new game, play it for 50 hours a week for 2-3 months, burn through all of the content. then they sit on the forums and complain about not having anything to do, until the next set of content is released, which they blow through in 3 weeks, playing 40ish hours a week.

then the next MMO comes out, and they and all of their Hardcore Raiding Guilds all jump to that one and do the same thing. occasionally hopping back to previous MMOs if a content release intrigues them.

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I want to see how much Subs this Game will lose this Year when The new WoW Expansion, Wildstar Online, ESO , Black Desert Online, EQN will be released.

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I'll bet you any amount of Gil that I can acquire, than the vast majority of players that leave this game for these new games will be the Hardcore Raiding population (and PVP Population, in the case of ESO). NOT "casuals".

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Originally Posted by Doo

That and early success doesn't really mean much to begin with. I'm sure newer mmos all tend to get over 1mil subs till the next hype comes along. When FFXIV starts to make more money than FFXI ever did then we can talk about it being more successful but still that doesn't mean it's a better game. Just means it appeals to a wider audience like McDonalds appeals to a wider audience.

btw Welcome back Rokien!

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No they don't. FF 14 is doing much better than Square anticipated.

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Originally Posted by LordSaviour

WoW had a crazy ad campaign which helped stimulate its subs.

SE's advertisement budget must be slim to none. Rarely see any commercials for any of its games.

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That's something that SE fails at :/ I saw 1 commercial, ONE, for XI way back in like 02-03, that was it. WoW just shoves ads down your throat every chance they get.

Well, at least outside Japan, apparently SE does tons of promotional things there for their games.


Also, for all you people saying XI never had more than 200k - 300k, just to prove you wrong, take this >.> As it was said before, 1 mil for a game just released is nothing, the real subs count for a bit later (year, sometimes less). For when this was posted, 2 mil for that far into the game is pretty good.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...psff8dd717.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gideon

Regardless WoW is the same age as FFXI and has sustained 7-12M throughout its lifetime.

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I just feel like pointing out, it's not the same age as XI lol XI is older. One of the reasons WoW has that many is because they throw ads at you whenever they get the chance and I'm sure they count those subs after an expansion when people come back. I remember reading a thing a few years back how WoW counts their RMT as players and each of the characters made as a "player" so I'm sure their subs are probably around ~5 mil, the rest being RMT, characters that are unactive or just people who come back for an expansion for a few months.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Also, for all you people saying XI never had more than 200k - 300k, just to prove you wrong, take this >.>
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...psff8dd717.jpg

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Two million characters does not equal two million subs.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Also, for all you people saying XI never had more than 200k - 300k, just to prove you wrong, take this >.>
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...psff8dd717.jpg

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Not that I care in the argument, but from what I remember that was active CHARACTERS which include alts. So it really isn't 2 million individual accounts.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Not that I care in the argument, but from what I remember that was active CHARACTERS which include alts. So it really isn't 2 million individual accounts.

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It doesn't prove that there were only 200k-300k. Most people only had 1 mule, if any, seeing as how you can do all on 1 character, unlike a certain mmo that forces you to make 5+ characters just to play another job (and most likely counts all those as "players")

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

It doesn't prove that there were only 200k-300k. Most people only had 1 mule, if any, seeing as how you can do all on 1 character, unlike a certain mmo that forces you to make 5+ characters just to play another job (and most likely counts all those as "players")

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The only publicly released numbers were "500,000 users" in 2004. The "200k-300k" number came from SE saying it had that many daily active players, which is different from subscriptions. As of the end of September last year, FFXIV had one million unique subscribers.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

You still have yet to provide a coherent and logical reason why SE should scrap what they're doing and copy a game that has never achieved even half the success that ARR has right now.

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A logical reason, lol so having different types of content that suits a larger audience isn't a logical reason to bring back some old content?

Stuff from XI would benifit ARR in these ways.

- The game would become constructed in a way that isn't simply a one way street, in ARR everyone progresses no matter what job they are in the exact same path. Apart from the class/job story lines, those aren't that bad but they could be a little more in depth.

- The open world would gain more purpose provideing content that keeps people actively paticipateing in the outside world, even for some end game content for those who are interested. Options people, options.

- The casuals could still earn the lvl 90 equipment by doing dungeons and earning points while players who enjoy different styles of content could earn different lvl 90 equipment elsewhere and not just in another raid or in another dungeon type instance.

- With BCNM's even low lvl mobs provide a purpose, collecting there loot to enter BCNM type instances, " little mini fights " That hand out valuible loot items that can be baught and sold on the auction house. -> Gives gil and loot more purpose.

- If they re introduced what both XI and XIV had previously in forms of crafted equipment the best crafted gear would no longer simply be lvl 45 junk but crafters would have the option if put in the effort to max out there craft the ability to create end game equipment by obtaining mats from BCNM's and other rare type loot. They could even go NM hunting to find this loot making it a bit changeling in order to do, they could bring back some materia with more use to it as well, our materia has become kind of lame now.

- There is no current sense of danger in a world that is supposed to feel dangerous, this outside world content could re introduce some extra feel of danger. Another thing I feel they should do is make those caves you can't access anymore, accessible and bring back some underground areas, maybe some NM's could lurk in the deepest depths of these caves and geting there would be no cake walk eather requireing a team. These caves could also contain coffer chests and you could farm up keys from monsters.

It all sounds like good stuff to me, whats the big deal about planing some more imersive content, will it destroy your precious one track content? Nope, if you want to play casual that option is still there too so whats your argument as to why we shouldn't include this content, oh wah it's too hard. If you don't like the content when it's added go back to doing whats there but too bad for us because what we want isn't even an option to us. Those who are opposed to the idea are being simply selfish, that is all.

Also for the record no one said anything about scraping anything, just that we would like them to not forget we exist too and add some content for us long lasting loyal players who actually liked there content that went on for years.

There are multiple types of players in this game the world should cater the majority and by the majority I mean everyone not just a collection of the community. It's everyone's game this game doesn't just belong to the casual and those seeking more deserve to have options.

The content will appeal to a large audience the old and the new, just not the extreamly casual that only play an hour a day.

PS: XI has had millions of subs at any given moment it's subs took years to drop to what it is now, your argument about the game never having as many subs as FFXIV ARR is invalid and incorrect in the past XI had more active subs than ARR dose currently and the original XI had way more active servers, each packed with players.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

A logical reason, lol so having different types of content that suits a larger audience isn't a logical reason to bring back some old content?

Stuff from XI would benifit ARR in these ways.

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By all accounts, the style of XI didn't suit a larger audience. It suited a much smaller audience than is currently playing the game. Besides, I don't think you would be satisfied until FFXIV was XI-Part 2.

The game isn't even 6 months old from it's retail release. People just need to be patient and wait for the development team to do their job and come up with new content. This thread (and others like it) all have been made by people who want everything right now and can't be bothered to wait. This happens with every MMO within the first 6 months or so since release : People rush through it, get to the end... bored and spam the forum boards like this.

Making any videogame, whether a offline or online, takes time. Yoshi P and his team have done a remarkable job, just let them take the time needed to make quality content as it will come. Just be patient is all.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

By all accounts, the style of XI didn't suit a larger audience. It suited a much smaller audience than is currently playing the game. Besides, I don't think you would be satisfied until FFXIV was XI-Part 2.

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Your reaction is stupid I said the aspects of XI in the world of FFXIV will suit a larger audience VS it's current content only suiting one player style "The Casual". I don't want a clone of XI, I don't have enough time in the world to replay a game that intense but 14 is seriously lacking it's not even a grain of sand of what XI was it would be nice to at least have some of the best things XI had to offer re introduced.

The way it is now I log on and run out of stuff to do in a few hours time and I'm forced to wait the next day to do the exact same thing again, that to me is unappealing.
Also there is a whole world of gamers out there the old and the new who are seeking the kind of gaming experience I'm describing one that suits all your needs not just the needs of the casual.

Sometimes I enjoy the casual content but when it's my only option and the only other option I have is different version of the same play style I kind of just get bored and I'm not alone in this, there are plenty who seek some more verity in content.

One thing that always bugged me about XI is that with all it's jobs out, there only seems to be room for like a third of them now if you want a slice of endgame. If your favorite job happened to be RDM(post WotG), DNC, NIN, BLU, DRG(post Abyssea), or dare I even say PUP, your fun of the game is going to take a dive unless you can prove yourself and even then, ignorance will prevail or level another job (even if you hate it) just to get the gear you want. I don't want to see that kind of thing happen to ARR, we've already seen a taste of it when BRD and PLD were the go-to jobs for coil and the doom/gloom said jobs expressed when adjustments were coming.

Plus there were activities where you had to wait, and wait, and wait for that right setup... or people to log on to gather. Some players don't have that kind of time, at least not anymore. I feel that XI is only going to be for the ones who have more free time than most and it will turn into a very niche group like the way Everquest end up, or so the legend was told. They have made XI more casual friendly, at least more attractive to newcomers and old players who quit around Abyssea.

One thing that I did wish ARR took from XI is the open world feel. Dungeons feel like wasted potential because they're instances. XI you can literally get lost inside Castle Zhval or Kuftal Tunnel running into NMs, however ARR is still fresh so this opinion is at best premature.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

One thing that I did wish ARR took from XI is the open world feel. Dungeons feel like wasted potential because they're instances. XI you can literally get lost inside Castle Zhval or Kuftal Tunnel running into NMs, however ARR is still fresh so this opinion is at best premature.

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I agree that I don't like how small the zone maps can seem, I miss being able to climb hills and mountains and the loading screens seem excessive. I'd also like to spend hours in dungeons (I have fond memories of time I spent in many of WoW's original, expansive dungeons). I just think there's a lot of good in this game that some people seem to be discounting. I also object to the idea that catering to "casuals" is the wrong move for ARR.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

I also object to the idea that catering to "casuals" is the wrong move for ARR.

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They have catered for casuals but thats all it is, the game could suit everyone your not seeing the bigger picture all you see is what you want when the game could be a place everyone can enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

One thing that always bugged me about XI is that with all it's jobs out, there only seems to be room for like a third of them now if you want a slice of endgame. If your favorite job happened to be RDM(post WotG), DNC, NIN, BLU, DRG(post Abyssea), or dare I even say PUP, your fun of the game is going to take a dive unless you can prove yourself and even then, ignorance will prevail or level another job (even if you hate it) just to get the gear you want. I don't want to see that kind of thing happen to ARR.

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The jobs and mechanics of the battle system wouldn't change so I doubt just by adding a few small things like Coffer chests, dangerous areas, BCNM, KSNM a few world NM's with fast spawn times, better end game craftable armor and weapons so forth would change that. By adding some familiar content from XI the game doesn't become XI it just has some similar not the same SIMILAR content. Nothing if implemented into ARR would be done in such a way that it would pose a threat to the casual game style.

Your fears of XI related content being brought into XIV destroying the game for casuals is a very paranoid over reaction, SE and the team have taken casuals into consideration on a rather large scale and will always continue to do so because that is the direction they have taken the game. Options for the casual gamer will always remain and you'll still be able to progress the way you like and be on par with others, spending hours in dungeons is still an option for progression even with other options.

Just because there is a broader verity in options for game progression with some XI content doesn't make the game any less appealing for the casual gamer but it certainly makes the gaming experience much better for people seeking more.

To me it just seems like there is a handful of casuals being meaninglessly selfish.
Not saying names, LiadansWhisper oops ma bad.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

By all accounts, the style of XI didn't suit a larger audience. It suited a much smaller audience than is currently playing the game. Besides, I don't think you would be satisfied until FFXIV was XI-Part 2.

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Believe it or not, but FFXI's smaller base was due to other factors such as PC hardware prices! I spent over 1k easily to have a decent pc! And if you call peak subrcribers @ 500k a failure then i don't know what is a success! I don't think people wanted FFXI-2, they wanted SE to step up and make a game that was unique to its own! 1.0 was really bad due to the BUGS that it shipped with.

FFXIV 2.0 isn't bad but, it really disappointed me not in dungeon content but rather overall content! (Not a dungeon runner)

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Originally Posted by Atheena

Believe it or not, but FFXI's smaller base was due to other factors such as PC hardware prices! I spent over 1k easily to have a decent pc! And if you call peak subrcribers @ 500k a failure then i don't know what is a success! I don't think people wanted FFXI-2, they wanted SE to step up and make a game that was unique to its own! 1.0 was really bad due to the BUGS that it shipped with.

FFXIV 2.0 isn't bad but, it really disappointed me not in dungeon content but rather overall content! (Not a dungeon runner)

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I have a really hard time believing it because millions of players have spent money for hardware to run WoW. I actually get better FPS on my rig in this game than I do in WoW. For 25 man raiding, in particular, you really need a strong PC. I'd also like to point out that this is what, month 4 of this game? We got some content out of order (Coils coming out before CT) and they're gradually working on increasing dungeon content and adding in things like Treasure Maps and Dailies (both of which have been a lot of fun - if not the most fun - I've had with this patch). Things are going to get better, but it's also going to take some time.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

None of this, in any way, changes that XI has never been nearly as successful as this game currently is.

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Don't mean to play devil's advocate here, but you are basing these two games off completely different eras of MMO's. Upon FFXI's release, there is a lot of factors to consider. For starters, MMO's were no where near the popularity of what they are today. MMO community back in the early 2000's was a very particular interest and online gaming in general was not very accessible. Internet gaming as a whole was not very big at the time.

Secondly, people were naturally distant of an online Final Fantasy for several reasons. Namely people were not fond of the fact that Final Fantasy, a known offline game series, took the series in the direction a lot were not fond of. Not to mention to play it, at the time did require not the best PC, but did require a higher than standard PC at the time. It was a graphically intense game. It was also an expensive purchase to get the PS2 version and was a hassle to get it set up. All in all at the beginning, FFXI was not entirely friendly to get into.

While I am on the side that FFXIV should go in it's own direction and any ideas from FFXI should only be ideas that doesn't affect ARR's vision as a whole, you shouldn't be comparing the sales and success of two different products of two different eras. FFXI was successful for what it could do at the time. A time where MMO's in general were not accessible and friendly to an open audience.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Don't mean to play devil's advocate here, but you are basing these two games off completely different eras of MMO's. Upon FFXI's release, there is a lot of factors to consider. For starters, MMO's were no where near the popularity of what they are today. MMO community back in the early 2000's was a very particular interest and online gaming in general was not very accessible. Internet gaming as a whole was not very big at the time.

Secondly, people were naturally distant of an online Final Fantasy for several reasons. Namely people were not fond of the fact that Final Fantasy, a known offline game series, took the series in the direction a lot were not fond of. Not to mention to play it, at the time did require not the best PC, but did require a higher than standard PC at the time. It was a graphically intense game. It was also an expensive purchase to get the PS2 version and was a hassle to get it set up. All in all at the beginning, FFXI was not entirely friendly to get into.

While I am on the side that FFXIV should go in it's own direction and any ideas from FFXI should only be ideas that doesn't affect ARR's vision as a whole, you shouldn't be comparing the sales and success of two different products of two different eras. FFXI was successful for what it could do at the time. A time where MMO's in general were not accessible and friendly to an open audience.

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:-\ The entire reason I brought up the success of XI vs. ARR is that the people are wanting ARR to become XI-2. :-\

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

:-\ The entire reason I brought up the success of XI vs. ARR is that the people are wanting ARR to become XI-2. :-\

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-.- just stop talking, the things your saying aren't even true.

While it's likely XI didn't have as many subs as ARR when it first came out ( Mainly because MMO's were just starting out and weren't a world wide masive thing ) XI later grew into a much larger community in it's middle life than we have currently in ARR.

ARR has been a success in short time but it's over all success is still questionable and unknown.

FFXI still has a huge fan base, alot of whom are seeking a new experience and hopefully less painful experience in ARR but they still remain hopeful that we will see related content that we enjoy. Many FFXI players have been constantly disappointed with the new MMO's out there we hoped we would always at least have our future Final Fantasy titles to look forward to, we never wanted the game to become world of warcraft we played Final Fantasy because we wanted something different.

ARR would make a whole lot more sense if it was closer to XI than WOW it's in the same series it's not world of warcraft, if you like WoW go play WOW or if you want another wow type mmo maybe you should be playing Tera, SWTOR or Rift online.

Final Fantasy was never supposed to be that kind of MMO it just doesn't feel right the way it is now, it needs more. It needs things from XI and FFXIV 1.23, the things it's missing.

Just because it would then have similarities from XI doesn't make it XI-2, just like taking the things from WoW that it took doesn't make it WoW-2.
You exaggerate too much.

XI and WoW were both the most popular titles back in the day, it was one or the other back then and FF14 could be like the best of both worlds.

Ff14 more like FF11 and less like WoW ? You want FF14 to go back to 1.0 population or what?

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

Ff14 more like FF11 and less like WoW ? You want FF14 to go back to 1.0 population or what?

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Should we just rehearse the same arguments over and over again or would you just like to read the thread and save yourself the trouble?

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

Ff14 more like FF11 and less like WoW ? You want FF14 to go back to 1.0 population or what?

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1.0 didn't have casual game play, it was bugy, only high end PC's could even run the thing, no the population wouldn't go down, the game could never be like 1.0 again that is history.
If XI content was added with the ARR spin on it the games population would only grow.

There has been a huge chunk of ARR's subs lost already over this, if anything unless some Final Fantasy MMO related content is resurrected I can only see the subs dropping further or no longer increasing.

With new MMO titles on the way too like Elder Scrolls online, Phantasy Star online and possibly Blade and Soul coming to the Western community who knows what will happen to ARR.

Unless ARR offers an over all different experience than those other MMO's it hasn't got a great deal to offer at all other than the FF skin.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Should we just rehearse the same arguments over and over again or would you just like to read the thread and save yourself the trouble?

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lol I agree

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Originally Posted by Vandark

-.- just stop talking, the things your saying aren't even true.

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You've told me that I'm stupid, and now you're telling me to shut up. If you don't want people to disagree with you, don't post things on a public forum. Otherwise, suck it up, buttercup.

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While it's likely XI didn't have as many subs as ARR when it first came out ( Mainly because MMO's were just starting out and weren't a world wide masive thing ) XI later grew into a much larger community in it's middle life than we have currently in ARR.

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You have absolutely nothing to back that up. ARR has - by SE's own words - twice the number of subs FFXI ever had even at the peak of its popularity.

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ARR has been a success in short time but it's over all success is still questionable and unknown.

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There's nothing to indicate that, so long as SE keeps its promises about future content and doesn't allow things to stagnate, the game won't continue to improve.

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FFXI still has a huge fan base, alot of whom are seeking a new experience and hopefully less painful experience in ARR but they still remain hopeful that we will see related content that we enjoy. Many FFXI players have been constantly disappointed with the new MMO's out there we hoped we would always at least have our future Final Fantasy titles to look forward to, we never wanted the game to become world of warcraft we played Final Fantasy because we wanted something different.

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This game isn't World of Warcraft. And no matter how many times you and your cronies repeat this hilarious lie, it isn't going to magically become true.

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ARR would make a whole lot more sense if it was closer to XI than WOW it's in the same series it's not world of warcraft, if you like WoW go play WOW or if you want another wow type mmo maybe you should be playing Tera, SWTOR or Rift online.

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I like this game. I don't know anyone - outside of these forums - who wants the game to turn into another giant wall of "Nope." I don't know of anyone - outside of these forums - who wants to have to spend years just to level a single class or Job. Who wants to have to fight with other players for rare spawns as "open world content." Cuz, man, it is so much fun to spend 7 hours standing around for a mob that spawns and is already dead within 30 seconds. The only people I've seen who want this so badly are people on this forum. And I'm on a legacy server, with multiple guildies who also played XI and every one of them has said they don't want anything to do with the grindfest that XI was. While there are things that none of us are happy about, there are many more things that we like about the game and that we would like to keep as is.

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Final Fantasy was never supposed to be that kind of MMO it just doesn't feel right the way it is now, it needs more. It needs things from XI and FFXIV 1.23, the things it's missing.

Just because it would then have similarities from XI doesn't make it XI-2, just like taking the things from WoW that it took doesn't make it WoW-2.
You exaggerate too much.

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And you have, in the same post where you are saying I'm exaggerating, keep repeating the line that somehow FFXIV has "become World of Warcraft." Who the hell is exaggerating here?

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XI and WoW were both the most popular titles back in the day, it was one or the other back then and FF14 could be like the best of both worlds.

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This is so utterly hilarious. XI has never - ever - even come close to the popularity of WoW. At its peak, XI never had more than 500k subscriptions. WoW had 15 million. Even now, having dropped to about half that, WoW has 7.7 million subscribers. That's still 15 times the number of subscribers that XI had at its peak.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

There has been a huge chunk of ARR's subs lost already over this, if anything unless some Final Fantasy MMO related content is resurrected I can only see the subs dropping further or no longer increasing.

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Where are you getting the information about this? Citation needed, please. SE hasn't released any subscription information recently, and I certainly haven't seen anything to indicate that your information is correct.

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With new MMO titles on the way too like Elder Scrolls online, Phantasy Star online and possibly Blade and Soul coming to the Western community who knows what will happen to ARR.

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Unless massive changes are made to ESO between last month and its release in April, it is in no way going to be a threat to any MMO. Seriously...to any MMO. It's that bad.