Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[Karbuncle]

In Abyssea it wouldn't really prove much(imo), with atmas any job can melee fine as is, and stuff like cruor buffs would atleast skew the SMN vs. Avatar test. Can't think of where to go off the top of my head the GoV/mob placement update added lots of Ts to old areas though so I'm sure theres at least one place you could test.

Well i had always believed SMN Melee held its best spotlight In abyssea, testing it outside would go against my current beliefs of its uses. However, I'd be willing to try the ~T mobs in GoV Areas... That may require outside assistance (like, a WHM lol, maybe a real tank).

still would not be against the idea.

[Razushu]

Well i had always believed SMN Melee held its best spotlight In abyssea, testing it outside would go against my current beliefs of its uses. However, I'd be willing to try the ~T mobs in GoV Areas... That may require outside assistance (like, a WHM lol, maybe a real tank).

still would not be against the idea.

Well as a test of mage melee at it's best, an Abyssean run is fine.

But you said you wanted to test SMN vs. a Heavy DD, which Abyssea would make a poor test ground. As you will be looking for a mathematical comparison of the two.

Atmas and Cruor buffs will turn EMs~Ts into EPs~DCs for all intents and purposes, which anything can swing a weapon at. These buffs, I feel would also alter the difference between the SMN and the WAR.

The following is a hypothetical example and is not based on real or believed values:

If on a T++ the WAR with it's best gear is close to capping ACC(say 92%), and the SMN is a bit away from cap(80%) in it's best available gear, these numbers are obvisiously just an example(for any who are looking to argue). Now lets say both are using Atma of RR, the WAR caps acc to spare with tonnes left over, and the SMN may well close that gap and also cap acc. In this case the test is invalid because it indicates that a SMN vs. WAR are the same in terms of acc.

This would work both ways lets say to cap acc on a mob WAR only needs RR, where as SMN needs RR and C&D, then the test is invalid because the WAR can equip 2 heavy DD atmas whereas the SMN is stuck with only one.

-NOT SO NINJA EDIT-

A SMN vs. it's Pet test would also be of less worth in Abyssea seeing how pets are screwed out of ~70 STR & DEX from cruor buffs that the master gets.

[Korpg]

Well i had always believed SMN Melee held its best spotlight In abyssea, testing it outside would go against my current beliefs of its uses. However, I'd be willing to try the ~T mobs in GoV Areas... That may require outside assistance (like, a WHM lol, maybe a real tank).

still would not be against the idea.

I can still tank and do damage, give me a WHM and I can do any mobs pretty much.

[Korpg]

Well as a test of mage melee at it's best, an Abyssean run is fine.

But you said you wanted to test SMN vs. a Heavy DD, which Abyssea would make a poor test ground. As you will be looking for a mathematical comparison of the two.

Atmas and Cruor buffs will turn EMs~Ts into EPs~DCs for all intents and purposes, which anything can swing a weapon at. These buffs, I feel would also alter the difference between the SMN and the WAR.

The following is a hypothetical example and is not based on real or believed values:

If on a T++ the WAR with it's best gear is close to capping ACC(say 92%), and the SMN is a bit away from cap(80%) in it's best available gear, these numbers are obvisiously just an example(for any who are looking to argue). Now lets say both are using Atma of RR, the WAR caps acc to spare with tonnes left over, and the SMN may well close that gap and also cap acc. In this case the test is invalid because it indicates that a SMN vs. WAR are the same in terms of acc.

This would work both ways lets say to cap acc on a mob WAR only needs RR, where as SMN needs RR and C&D, then the test is invalid because the WAR can equip 2 heavy DD atmas whereas the SMN is stuck with only one.

Then lets make it so the SMN + Avatar and the WAR has the same atmas:

Apoc, RR, and VV.

Curor Buffs will decide the outcome, unless Karby has all abyssites for Cruor buffs, then we will be on "equal" footing in that case too.

[Karbuncle]

Then lets make it so the SMN + Avatar and the WAR has the same atmas:

Apoc, RR, and VV.

Curor Buffs will decide the outcome, unless Karby has all abyssites for Cruor buffs, then we will be on "equal" footing in that case too.

I actually do have all Abyssites for Cruor buffs >_>;; However, if i did do that, I was planning on using VV/RR/Apoc.

I'd like to do both tests, But as i said, I'm working on the gear now and im a slow person, so it might be a while before we can solidly do this, But i will hold to my word and test it!

[Korpg]

I actually do have all Abyssites for Cruor buffs >_>;; However, if i did do that, I was planning on using VV/RR/Apoc.

I'd like to do both tests, But as i said, I'm working on the gear now and im a slow person, so it might be a while before we can solidly do this, But i will hold to my word and test it!

Are you going to do 85 Hver or 90? You should get 90 because it won't really be that long before I get my 90 Ukon.

Also, lets do it regardless of the obligatory Dallas post: This test will not prove anything because I can't fudge the numbers in my favor!

[Dallas]

Raz, I offered proof. You can choose to reject a drawing at your own risk.

If you want the parses, go to zam, find it in the sticky. That was back in the Martial vs ridill days. The gap in haste and weapon has narrowed. No, I won't make you shut up.

The picture is better. Free advertising. You have to look at that and know it worked in 2006. Same playstyle, MUCH easier game.

[SpankWustler]

Well i had always believed SMN Melee held its best spotlight In abyssea, testing it outside would go against my current beliefs of its uses.

This makes a lot of sense, at least to me. You may already have Razed Ruin and Co. on for your pet, +90% HP makes generic AoEs much less threatening, there's rarely a profound need for an extra source of healing, leaving to change jobs can be problematic, etc.

Outside of Abyssea, the meaningful content is mostly Voidwatch and re-vamped older content. Bonking most of that stuff seems ill-advised and I'm not sure what point bonking GoV monsters would have. Maybe you could bring Havartidangler to bear against some Decent Challenge stuff in city dynamis zones?

[Razushu]

Then lets make it so the SMN + Avatar and the WAR has the same atmas:

Apoc, RR, and VV.

Curor Buffs will decide the outcome, unless Karby has all abyssites for Cruor buffs, then we will be on "equal" footing in that case too.

Even with the same atmas there's a shadow of doubt on the result, although as for total damage contribution the gimp to pets from lack of cruor buffs to them.

I still think(could be wrong) that Atmas would, alter the results in terms of Acc, and possibly other ways.

[Razushu]

This makes a lot of sense, at least to me. You may already have Razed Ruin and Co. on for your pet, +90% HP makes generic AoEs much less threatening, there's rarely a profound need for an extra source of healing, leaving to change jobs can be problematic, etc.

Outside of Abyssea, the meaningful content is mostly Voidwatch and re-vamped older content. Bonking most of that stuff seems ill-advised and I'm not sure what point bonking GoV monsters would have. Maybe you could bring Havartidangler to bear against some Decent Challenge stuff in city dynamis zones?

I lol'ed true story.