Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

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Originally Posted by Jennika

Savage and Extreme should be more difficult than anything else. I think we need a 2nd tier that's more forgiving and less 1-shot mechanics but not a complete joke like most everything else.

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I do think this would help, it would be the midcore content level that I have seen many people ask for.

Isn't ^that the logic that brought us to where we are now?

Would you rather they add some sort of achievement reward: titles and/or trophy items for Minimum iLevel Sync clears of EX trials, COIL, SVG ALEX? Instead of achievement maybe a second weekly lockout on loot?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Except those zones are Ishgardian territory and not Flames, Snakes or Maelstrom territory, you are completely ignoring the politics of Eorzea.

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I don't think so. I said regional influence, not regional control. Easily could fit in the lore. Now that Ishgard has opened it's gates to city-states, the GCs want to re-establish trade and commerce with Ishgard territories. They ask for the WoLs help in accomplishing this by asking from them to complete task for the Ishgardians in the respective zones.

There's 3 City States but the WoL is only enlisted in one, meaning competition between players.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Which gear do you think is appreciated more and let's them enjoy relevant gear longer?

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And what does Istaru do in the 12-18 months after gear acquisition "with" said gear?

Play Overwatch...? Or do random roulettes for the lulz because he just loves doing the dungeons for the 247th time again?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And what does Istaru do in the 12-18 months after gear acquisition "with" said gear?

Play Overwatch...? Or do random roulettes for the lulz because he just loves doing the dungeons for the 247th time again?

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Well it isn't Istaru's job to make long lasting content.

That would be on the shoulders of Square Enix who are more than capable of creating things like that. Just because everything is short and easy doesn't mean everything has to be.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Is he wrong?

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Well... yeah, he's pretty much wrong. As was mentioned, not having the l33test equipment did not exclude you from anything in FFXI. Therefore, it's silly to assume that folks waxing nostalgic about FFXI itemization are looking for an excuse to exclude people.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Well... yeah, he's pretty much wrong. As was mentioned, not having the l33test equipment did not exclude you from anything in FFXI. Therefore, it's silly to assume that folks waxing nostalgic about FFXI itemization are looking for an excuse to exclude people.

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Now wanting a 1 for 1 copy here in XIV. But I wouldn't mind somethings carrying over. But yeah, no ilvl there, only time you got excluded from stuff was hardest of the hardcore endgame or if you were an assh-hat.

I just want good loot from my raids that's all.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Well it isn't Istaru's job to make long lasting content.

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:|

Pray tell, if people constantly measure the longevity of a piece of content by its relevancy to progression (by labeling content with inferior gear obsolete), what kind of content can possibly be "lasting" for a progression capped player?

I'm not surprised you don't name any content, because there IS no content that can fulfill those criteria. Don't be surprised if SE doesn't manage to please that, it's not possible.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Well... yeah, he's pretty much wrong. As was mentioned, not having the l33test equipment did not exclude you from anything in FFXI. Therefore, it's silly to assume that folks waxing nostalgic about FFXI itemization are looking for an excuse to exclude people.

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Before Abyssea (and sort of during), gear really wasn't as important as people made it out to be. We could gear up with stuff you buy from the AH, and some stuff which was bought was still extremely useful in endgame content for many years (e.g. elemental staves). Part of the reason on that though was because of the lack of much gear with special and secondary stats. Ahh the days when whiffing and resistances was part of endgame because of there only being a handful of accuracy boosting gear/items lol.

So yeah, I agree, the guy is pretty much wrong on the matter. Relics were the end-all weapons of the game for a period, but they were NEVER necessary to complete content and rarely seen as a requirement among groups. Today is a different matter, since it absolutely is a practically mandatory thing to have an REM weapon (especially shield if PLD), but I'd wager practically no one here plays XI anyway now. Especially because if anyone did use that as a means to point out something bad here, it'd have to be said that you can solo your way to it now, or if you're rich enough, buy your way for most of a relic or empy.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Now wanting a 1 for 1 copy here in XIV. But I wouldn't mind somethings carrying over. But yeah, no ilvl there, only time you got excluded from stuff was hardest of the hardcore endgame or if you were an assh-hat.

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Technically ilvl has always existed there, if the current model is anything to take away from how the old worked. There were clearly better stat equips of the same level, back then. Hell, the most obvious being the HQ equips. We were just never given the visual representation of it.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

:|

Pray tell, if people constantly measure the longevity of a piece of content by its relevancy to progression (by labeling content with inferior gear obsolete), what kind of content can possibly be "lasting" for a progression capped player?

I'm not surprised you don't name any content, because there IS no content that can fulfill those criteria. Don't be surprised if SE doesn't manage to please that, it's not possible.

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The very game being discussed here did for a good 7-8 years... Certain gear acquired earlier could be relevant all the way to the level cap. And elder gear was modified to become stronger and stronger as newer more powerful gear came along.

SE has fulfilled that criteria, just not in this game so much....

I don't want gear or content being super relevant for 7-8 years or the lifespan of a game. But there is a middle place between the 3-6 months recycle and lifespan relevancy.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Well it isn't Istaru's job to make long lasting content.

That would be on the shoulders of Square Enix who are more than capable of creating things like that. Just because everything is short and easy doesn't mean everything has to be.

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I'm glad it isn't my job to do that. I didn't really intend to become a thing of sorts here but oh well. Fighting it will only make it worse.

Maybe I could work on other things for that 12-18 months? Overwatch wouldn't be one of them though, FFXV, FFVII and FFXII could be though.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Technically ilvl has always existed there, if the current model is anything to take away from how the old worked. There were clearly better stat equips of the same level, back then. Hell, the most obvious being the HQ equips. We were just never given the visual representation of it.

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One HQ isn't a Ilvl. Ilvl raises incrementally every few months. If that were true there would be a Normal, HQ, HQ+1, HQ+2,HQ+3, etc, etc.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Certain gear acquired earlier could be relevant all the way to the level cap.

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Which is equivalent to Sastasha normal randomly dropping (wearable) i190 gear. You realize that?

Plus, that's entirely irrelevant to the scenarios we were discussing! You compared two scenarios, one in which a player gets progression capped in 3 months and has that gear become obsolete in 3-6 months and then another who takes ~9 months to be progression capped and have the gear become obsolete much later. So I raised the question: What does the latter player do in that long period where his gear is top?

The answer is simple: Nothing. And now you switch the topic to point out that the power budgets of items were completely arbitrary, which made older content relevant. Not only is that a somewhat questionable design choice in its own right, it is, again, not relevant to the question:"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

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Originally Posted by Zojha

So I raised the question: What does the latter player do in that long period where his gear is top?

The answer is simple: Nothing. And now you switch the topic to point out that the power budgets of items were completely arbitrary, which made older content relevant. Not only is that a somewhat questionable design choice in its own right, it is, again, not relevant to the question:"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?" You say:"Do long lasting content." What for? You already have the stuff, that was the premise!

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Answer is simple but not nothing like you said.Easy, get gear for another job! Or add a merit/champion/open world system offering more than GEAR

And what I said is actually relevant. This is a "Make XIV like XI thread and less like WoW"

Also when content is really fun, the carrot is not always the major point of enjoyment. You ride a bike to enjoy riding a bike not the ice cream you eat after the ride. And before you flip it and say then quick recycled Ilvl or longer lasting tier gear shouldn't matter then.

I would say there that ilvl is like needing a new bike every three months or your speed dives downwards. Where as longer tiered progression is not needing the new bike as often but just adding amenities and sidegrades to it overtime.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

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You need to acknowledge also that the people who played FFXI are not the same as the ones who play FFXIV. FFXIV is not filled with only once FFXI players. They consist of people who came from other MMO's, or new to the genre as a whole. You can't make the assumption that it will work because one MMO did it in the earlier 2000's.

Lets try this. Lets not involve FFXIV's current system. Lets say they revamp and give you the FFXI-2 you want. Lets say you are running the show here. How do you plan to have a system like this and keep all of the casual, midcore, and hardcore players? How will you convince the casual player base to commit to a level of hardcore to stay relevant? FFXI's set up was not in favor of casual players at all. So without saying "SE will figure it out", because they are clearly not, I want to hear how you will keep those numbers high, keep all three levels of play happy without them getting sick of it and leaving. Keep them entertained for years on certain pieces of content.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

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Don't know if I go to that extreme, but it would be nice if FFXI got that UI revamp they have been talking about and a better resolution upgrade. Don't know if SE wants to invest in that however, especially with them working on the mobile version of the game. Certainly be nice though, they dropped the PS2/360 version, so the sky is the limit really.

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

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If they did that I would most likely go back to it also :D

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You need to acknowledge also that the people who played FFXI are not the same as the ones who play FFXIV. FFXIV is not filled with only once FFXI players. They consist of people who came from other MMO's, or new to the genre as a whole. You can't make the assumption that it will work because one MMO did it in the earlier 2000's.

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I acknowledge that not everyone comes from the same gaming background.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Lets try this. Lets not involve FFXIV's current system. Lets say they revamp and give you the FFXI-2 you want. Lets say you are running the show here. How do you plan to have a system like this and keep all of the casual, midcore, and hardcore players? How will you convince the casual player base to commit to a level of hardcore to stay relevant? FFXI's set up was not in favor of casual players at all. So without saying "SE will figure it out", because they are clearly not, I want to hear how you will keep those numbers high, keep all three levels of play happy without them getting sick of it and leaving. Keep them entertained for years on certain pieces of content.

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I don't want an XI-2 though. If my want was the deep I would just want a HD reboot of XI. Short answers? And I refer to the segregation in terms of playstyle not skill.

Gametime:
Casuals want short game sessions and total playtime.
Midcore want short-medium game sessions and total playtime.
Hardcore want moderate to long game sessions and total playtime.

Skill based:
Casual want light difficulty and easy to understand systems.
Moderate skill wants moderate difficulty and doesn't mind deep complex systems as long as it isn't extreme.
Elite players want extreme difficulty and want all the complexity possible, don't even mind looking stuff up to be the best.

Interaction:
Casual likes no tedium and straightforward.
Midcore likes no tedium but can live with some if if feels rewarding.
Hardcore like no tedium but would trade all the comforts if the game opened up it's systems.

Short answer?
Make content for those three groups.



I probably could If I could dedicate all my focus to that goal but developing isn't my primary job.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Which is equivalent to Sastasha normal randomly dropping (wearable) i190 gear. You realize that?

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I imagine it'd be more alike to getting gear from a challenge mode (e.g. with achievement) of a given 40-59 boss that either scales with you or just has some percentage bonus effect. Sadly no such things exist.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

"What do you do in the long time of no/marginal progression AFTER getting the items?"

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That said, while "do it all again, for alt gear!" would be the obvious answer, I personally wouldn't want to go through all that for every alt. Worse, if the gear was actually that huge a bonus, I wouldn't feel like I'm really allowed to play my alts until I've done so. The latter is due to personal issues, a fear of being asked "where's you're god mode gear?" especially if followed with "are you joking? Get on your real job." So therein lies the ultimatum, do I want to grind for a year just to feel like I have the same options to me I had before, just to make a particular gearing task extra long both initially and finally (in which case my luck with RNG will make the process all the more exasperating) or do I want something that rewards more frequently, so I can less painfully bring my jobs (or at least my recent favorite of them) in line, although having to maintain them more frequently as well...

Ideally, I'd like for the initial task to be truly difficult, but undertakeable in steps, the RNG to be less the issue, gear usable across multiple jobs, and (and here's where the pipedream gets really obvious) the content to be enough fun in itself to run even after getting my loot. At worst, have a longer optional task thereafter, such as for an upgrade item. Running Levi Ex as a solo-queuer during the mirror farm time of night did that for me. Sure, the mirror drop would have been nice, but in the end I really liked the fight itself. I enjoyed coming home from university and just PuGing it for an hour straight to a playlist setup just before.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

And what I said is actually relevant. This is a "Make XIV like XI thread and less like WoW"

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Oh what you said is relevant to the thread - just not to the point I was making.

Gearing another job is already what people can do right now, "if" they do it - many don't and that's exactly why we have so many people complaining. We could have six additional months between upgrade patches and it would allow you to gear most of your jobs with the current tomestone system. Great, right? Except people who only play one job moan and unsub for that time because "there's nothing to do!"

The bottom line is, the progression treadmill needs to keep running, because people enticed by progression stop playing if it doesn't. And whether you regularly replace gear or progress otherwise doesn't really matter. We could also just keep increasing the level cap and work off XP. Gear is just easier to handle.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

I probably could If I could dedicate all my focus to that goal but developing isn't my primary job.

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I want to know. You seem to have the solution to all our problems. Don't want to answer my hypothetical question I asked?

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Originally Posted by Jennika

Savage and Extreme should be more difficult than anything else. I think we need a 2nd tier that's more forgiving and less 1-shot mechanics but not a complete joke like most everything else.

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Oh, I agree. Weeping City was a good start, but even that is still too easy for my taste. My hope is that at least becomes the standard though. While I like Hullbreaker Hard well enough, it's absurdly easy.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

I don't think so. I said regional influence, not regional control. Easily could fit in the lore. Now that Ishgard has opened it's gates to city-states, the GCs want to re-establish trade and commerce with Ishgard territories. They ask for the WoLs help in accomplishing this by asking from them to complete task for the Ishgardians in the respective zones.

There's 3 City States but the WoL is only enlisted in one, meaning competition between players.

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We need more coopertion in this game, cooperative play that is enjoyable. We dpo not need more competition, nor more of the competitive attitude that such content breeds.

I do not think that Ishgard would take kindly to any of the Grand companies attempting to expand their influence in Ishgardian territory - even if the always reliable WoL tries to smooth the way.

Oh, and there are 4 city states, 3 are dominatted by a different GC and the 4th, is dominated by the various houses of Ishgard and the 'church'.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I want to know. You seem to have the solution to all our problems. Don't want to answer my hypothetical question I asked?

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• Make 4 man content, public dungeons, solo content for casual with light to moderate difficulty.
• Make 4-8 man content, public dungeons,solo/group content for midcore with moderate difficulty, lenient mechanics/group number composition. Not reffering to roles but numbers.
• Make 4-24 man content, solo content for hardcore with high difficulty, strict mechanics.

Make instanced/open world content for all groups, strive for accessibility and clear instructions and remember the different groups. Maintain the instanced contents ilvl for casuals. Create open world systems with long term progressive systems similar to Sky or Sea but not as long lasting for midcore and hardcore. Retain tight knit instances for midcore with group number and mechanic leniency, and keep pumping out the savage version for hardcore.

Here is a look at a type of different content.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3809761

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

I would rather ffxi just get an overhaul and remaster. Change the combat system and make it a bit more faster paced. I'd quit in a heartbeat and join it. Yup.

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The reason that didn't happen is because they thought making a new mmo would be less work/as much work. FFXI may no longer support ps2 or 360 but it is still using ps2 architecture which will need alot of work to modernise. I do agree though; i would sign up for that especially since i'm currently playing through XI again right now as a Tarutaru. =3

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

• Make 4 man content, public dungeons, solo content for casual with light to moderate difficulty.
• Make 4-8 man content, public dungeons,solo/group content for midcore with moderate difficulty, lenient mechanics/group number composition. Not reffering to roles but numbers.
• Make 4-24 man content, solo content for hardcore with high difficulty, strict mechanics.

Make instanced/open world content for all groups, strive for accessibility and clear instructions and remember the different groups. Maintain the instanced contents ilvl for casuals. Create open world systems with long term progressive systems similar to Sky or Sea but not as long lasting for midcore and hardcore. Retain tight knit instances for midcore with group number and mechanic leniency, and keep pumping out the savage version for hardcore.

Here is a look at a type of different content.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3809761

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How do you plan to accommodate the mass amount of people the open world portions? How will you maintain the toxicity of clashing with other groups and the server stress of so many in a area?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

How do you plan to accommodate the mass amount of people the open world portions? How will you maintain the toxicity of clashing with other groups and the server stress of so many in a area?

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I imagine with Phasing. SE already does some of this and most modern mmos go heavy with the phasing. Since all content wouldn't be vortexed into the same area, wider player populace around Eorzea, and numerous servers. And since this game uses a GCD which I don't like normally, it adds to server stability since no one can zing off 1000 AoES one after the other.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

And what does Istaru do in the 12-18 months after gear acquisition "with" said gear?

Play Overwatch...? Or do random roulettes for the lulz because he just loves doing the dungeons for the 247th time again?

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First thing, I agree that in the MMO market of today, some kind of upward progression is just about required. FFXI sat at level 75 for like 6 years, I don't think that would be accepted in today's market. Also, I apologize for the wall of text.

What if Istaru's gear leveled up in a completely different way than anything we have now?

Here is the idea...

At 3.0, you start gaining materials, we will keep them with a weekly lockout so that it takes poor Istaru "X" weeks to get a full set kinda how Eso gear was. The difference between harder and easy content is only the amount of upgrade items rewarded. They could unlock an extra Materia slot or something from Savage content.

At 3.1, as the catchup patch, new content that gives more upgrade tokens is introduced as well as gear equal to the base 3.0 set and people don't have to do the initial power up step.

3.2, Oh no, the gear trashing even number patch is released. What ever will Istaru do? I know, they will begin collecting a new upgrade material for their items, and the old items can also be traded against the new items but at a different rate. A moderate increase in ilvl, maybe 10 or whatever.

This continues to the end of the expansion and starts over at the next one.

What changed, not a whole bunch honestly. It does change how the hard end of gear is handled. If you are tackling hard content, you will reach a point where added effort to clear it may not be seen as a benefit to you for progression. If you are a casual raiding group, currently working on A6S, and getting close to clearing it, but will not clear it before next month, it can be seen as a poor use of people's time.

Why?

Any gear reward you get is made inferior by the even numbered patch. An i240 item will not be any better than the i250 crafted or i250 Alexander {insert name here} easy mode. The crafted gear is usually available same day as the patch. If you are looking at itemization only, the reward for clearing a new Alexander Midas floor is no longer there. It is still there for bragging rights though. If clearing it, gave you something of value that lasted beyond the current patch, then working through it would have a tangible benefit.

tl;dr version:

Change it so that gear isn't replaced with every even numbered patch, instead the same piece of gear is upgraded over the entire expansion or whenever you get to the end of the expansion. Instead of walking up different flights of steps to go from the basement to the penthouse, we take a single escalator instead. I'm sure there are better ways to implement something like this than what I explained, but hopefully there is enough to get the idea across.

Last, can we come up with a new name for our fictional hero? Speaking of myself in the third person, while kinda humorous, is also kinda weird. :)

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

I imagine with Phasing. SE already does some of this and most modern mmos go heavy with the phasing. Since all content wouldn't be vortexed into the same area, wider player populace around Eorzea, and numerous servers. And since this game uses a GCD which I don't like normally, it adds to server stability since no one can zing off 1000 AoES one after the other.

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But you still clash with others who can easily ruin your night. Why would you pick that over instanced which the only people who can ruin your night is the ones you took with you? I recall entire nights ruined because too many LS's were in Sky, Sea, or take a spot in Dynamis.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

But you still clash with others who can easily ruin your night. Why would you pick that over instanced which the only people who can ruin your night is the ones you took with you? I recall entire nights ruined because too many LS's were in Sky, Sea, or take a spot in Dynamis.

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I have to agree with you, there was a significant level of endgame interpersonal conflict that I don't care to see again.

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Originally Posted by Istaru

Last, can we come up with a new name for our fictional hero? Speaking of myself in the third person, while kinda humorous, is also kinda weird. :)

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No I can't sorry. :)

You are my hero from this day forth. I shall sing your name in praises all about Eorzea until the dawn of the new era.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

But you still clash with others who can easily ruin your night. Why would you pick that over instanced which the only people who can ruin your night is the ones you took with you? I recall entire nights ruined because too many LS's were in Sky, Sea, or take a spot in Dynamis.

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If I play with fear that is not playing. There are a thousand reasons that could ruin a night and they don't even have to be in game. Phasing would fix competitive PvE for the most part. Even now nights get ruined sometimes as you state.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

If I play with fear that is not playing. There are a thousand reasons that could ruin a night and they don't even have to be in game. Phasing would fix competitive PvE for the most part. Even now nights get ruined sometimes as you state.

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You are not answering my question. Why would I pick this type of game play that clashes with other people when I can have an instance of the game thing and not conflict with others? Why would I pick a feature that can ruin my night because of other people instead of a instanced group where that is not an issue? I have a feeling you can't give me a very good answer.

I guarantee you if Sky, Sea, or Dynamis had a choice to be instanced, people would most definitely of taken it. Too many nights our LS's plans were cancelled because of frustration of dealing with other people. Doing things like Einherjar or BCNM/KSNM were ever rarely the case because there was no real clash. Even SE agreed to an extent and made HNM Kings have force pops.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You are not answering my question. Why would I pick this type of game play that clashes with other people when I can have an instance of the game thing and not conflict with others? Why would I pick a feature that can ruin my night because of other people instead of a instanced group where that is not an issue? I have a feeling you can't give me a very good answer.

I guarantee you if Sky, Sea, or Dynamis had a choice to be instanced, people would most definitely of taken it. Too many nights our LS's plans were cancelled because of frustration of dealing with other people. Doing things like Einherjar or BCNM/KSNM were ever rarely the case because there was no real clash. Even SE agreed to an extent and made HNM Kings have force pops.

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So what I'm taking from this is that games can change to keep up with the needs/desires of their player base. Perhaps one day XIV will add some spice to the world that is Eorzea. :P

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You are not answering my question. Why would I pick this type of game play that clashes with other people when I can have an instance of the game thing and not conflict with others? Why would I pick a feature that can ruin my night because of other people instead of a instanced group where that is not an issue? I have a feeling you can't give me a very good answer.

I guarantee you if Sky, Sea, or Dynamis had a choice to be instanced, people would most definitely of taken it. Too many nights our LS's plans were cancelled because of frustration of dealing with other people. Doing things like Einherjar or BCNM/KSNM were ever rarely the case because there was no real clash. Even SE agreed to an extent and made HNM Kings have force pops.

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For starters, shouldn't your comparisons be to the systems already in XIV where this can be a problem (Hunts, FATEs, and Diadem), or where that problem is (albeit awkwardly) avoided, such as in leves?

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but are these open world interactions condemned to be ever disappointing just because someone else can have an affect on the resources or tasks available to you? The same concepts are largely lauded in other MMOs, wherein the players must make an effort together in order to keep a given zone functioning, or where world PvP can push opportunities for players in their respective factions for better or worse. Are those people just all crazy for enjoying that element of risk and/or (forced) community?

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

• Make 4 man content, public dungeons, solo content for casual with light to moderate difficulty.
• Make 4-8 man content, public dungeons,solo/group content for midcore with moderate difficulty, lenient mechanics/group number composition. Not reffering to roles but numbers.
• Make 4-24 man content, solo content for hardcore with high difficulty, strict mechanics.

Make instanced/open world content for all groups, strive for accessibility and clear instructions and remember the different groups. Maintain the instanced contents ilvl for casuals. Create open world systems with long term progressive systems similar to Sky or Sea but not as long lasting for midcore and hardcore. Retain tight knit instances for midcore with group number and mechanic leniency, and keep pumping out the savage version for hardcore.

Here is a look at a type of different content.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3809761

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You could possibly fit some of that into something equivalent to Deep Dungeon, however FFXIV will never have this on the open scale due to balance and cost issues. Non-instanced content creates an enormous load on servers. Larger ones simply wouldn't be capable of handling the influx of thousands of players in one play, alongside everything else that needs to load. Furthermore, public dungeons would devolve into zerg fests ala hunts presuming you mean players could simply run into them.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Are those people just all crazy for enjoying that element of risk and/or (forced) community?

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There is no free lunch I should say in this regards. We pay one way or the other for interactions like this, and it's just a matter of how we pay that dividend that matters to some.

As a fan of the forced interaction of players I was a staunch advocate of enjoying the open world of FFXI, much of it's content could be enjoyed by anyone you ran into on the map and that shared interaction/struggle knit a tightly woven community. They even had their own primitive solutions to some of the issues people came across in such a world.

BCNM fights were "Instanced" boss fights you could access once you have traversed the open world area, much akin to many other storyline and other quests would have a open world interaction mingled with a closed instance. The main issue was that the instances were not really instanced as they were a separated arena, of course now such things can be solved as we have instances now aplenty.

Some people however want to nix all the middle-manning and just get to instanced content, that's how you wind up with our glorified lobby world now.

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I wont lie and say I enjoyed being locked out of dyanmis because it was "Full" but even then things like the dynamis system presented players with challenges they had to solve as a community and many did with shared callendars to organize the event. God help the man who decided to try and break that scheduel you would find your entire linkshell black-balled by the community because you didn't just ram a few buttons and meet up with anonymous people your actions had a profound effect on the world.

This could of course be for good or for ill but I happened to like that aspect of the game. I don't play to just que up in a dungeon I play to be part of a community.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You are not answering my question. Why would I pick this type of game play that clashes with other people when I can have an instance of the game thing and not conflict with others? Why would I pick a feature that can ruin my night because of other people instead of a instanced group where that is not an issue? I have a feeling you can't give me a very good answer.

I guarantee you if Sky, Sea, or Dynamis had a choice to be instanced, people would most definitely of taken it. Too many nights our LS's plans were cancelled because of frustration of dealing with other people. Doing things like Einherjar or BCNM/KSNM were ever rarely the case because there was no real clash. Even SE agreed to an extent and made HNM Kings have force pops.

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Phasing. You don't have to compete against hundreds of others and people can still get their open world fix.
http://support.enmasse.com/tera/channels

There were times I would go up into Sky alone and solo stuff I wasn't supposed to. But I couldn't solo everything. It was amazing for the option to run into people and have an experience of community, not an event of community. An example of event type is everyone going to a huge peace/love festival like The Burning Man, and even though there are thousands of people, you are really only interacting with who you came with if you are staring at your phone and the people two feet in front of you the whole time.

Having a zone with interconnecting areas and the ability to get lost, gives you the Christopher Columbus feeling you can't get with bread crumb trails and lobbies. Not saying I don't enjoy my share of instances. But when a game puts all it's eggs in one basket and shuns another, that is a limit on what someone might consider fun.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You could possibly fit some of that into something equivalent to Deep Dungeon, however FFXIV will never have this on the open scale due to balance and cost issues. Non-instanced content creates an enormous load on servers. Larger ones simply wouldn't be capable of handling the influx of thousands of players in one play, alongside everything else that needs to load. Furthermore, public dungeons would devolve into zerg fests ala hunts presuming you mean players could simply run into them.

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I played ESO public dungeons, because the zone didn't consist of only killing an NM, you could solo or party and it didn't turn into a zerg fest. That happens when hundreds of people can hit on the same enemy. Which the claim system would have to be reworked if it became a thing.

And if the worry is that it will be tedious competing against others for kills. The channel thing fixes that too.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/32337...2999971267013/

Just because XI had a PvE vs PvE aspect to it doesn't mean things haven't advanced in the open world aspect since XI's inception. Or has GTA always had multiplayer online? Open World has advanced, instances have advanced. It doesn't have to all be naughty. :)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Are those people just all crazy for enjoying that element of risk and/or (forced) community?

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Preferences don't make people crazy - however, playing a game that does not have these elements over one that does against one's own preference and better knowledge does seem a little crazy. I mean, one of the main reasons I am not playing guild wars 2 right now is the horizontal progression, but that just means guild wars 2 is not a game for me (as much as I adore the Asura), so I naturally picked another with a different model. The market is pretty diverse after all, so everyone should be able to find a pretty good fit (although 100% fit is likely never achieved), which in turn sends signals to companies.

I mean, don't get me wrong - monitoring the market, reacting to trends, adjusting the product to the customer's needs and serving profitable nichés are good things! But you also have to consider that not all customer needs and nichés are compatible and it's often better for everyone involved to have different needs served by different games.