That's why I say in 3.x the mindset to solo carry was encouraged because the majority of players are incompetent. When a class like machinist can take 2 seconds to kill someone then?????Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintersandman
Strategy is much more encouraged now more than ever because classes don't offer anything by themselves, only together lol
I miss the old PvP.
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02-10-2018, 06:02 AMCrit
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02-10-2018, 06:14 AMDivinemightsI am sorry to disappoint you but 4.2 Machinest can drop dps job in close range with merely 4 buttons: wild fire, stun gun, snipe, heated split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
I am defending 4.0 system not because I think it is good, i just like it separate PvP and PvE.
It doesn't mean I think it takes a lot skill to play
The fact is, if you got killed by a SMN, BRD, and MCH this expansion, there is nothing to be shame about, because who knows whether it is the player skill that killed you or it is the job mechanic killed you.
I dare you to play Frontline as Monk without a healer follow you.
This is the job right now requires most skill to play this expansion. -
02-10-2018, 06:25 AMWintersandmanActually it is different. 3.x was focused on how well a team could perform defensively. 4.x is focused on how well a team could perform offensively. It's not that there is more strategy but the focus has shifted. Which is also probably why healers are so tough now because players didn't know how to protect them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
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02-10-2018, 06:42 AMThirdChild_ZKIStrategy was just as encouraged then. Anyone who thought themselves a one man army was just an easy target to cc and blow up. Baiting defensive cooldowns was a thing. Locking down heals or syncing bursts was a thing. Sure, a few proved themselves quite capable of carries, but that was hardly the norm. It goes without saying that 4 strong players on a team doing whatever they want aren't going to outperform 4 strong players cooperating with each other. That was true even in 3.x PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
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02-10-2018, 10:35 PMaeoncsXDQuote:
Originally Posted by Crit
Sure, the lack of almost any kind of cc, rotations, smart target swapping or that you barely have to pay attention to your own and the enemies cooldowns makes the gameplay so much more team based and thought inducing.
Yes, certain Jobs had ridiculous RNG burst that was definitely not OK but apart from that, if you wanted to perform well in 3.X Feast you had to show a level of situational awareness and coordinate with your team in a way that someone like you can't even comprehend.
So just sit back, be thankful to SE that they enabled you to reach Top 100 with the gameplay and rating changes and stop your gibberish about a time where you would have been as close to a Top 100 spot as individuals are to buying a new large plot in 4.2 ;^) -
02-11-2018, 04:01 AMAchaNoYumiWho t f are you???Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoncs
Excuse me, first off Crit wasn't lucky to get Top 100, he earned that fair and square.
Second of all, your brain can't even comprehend the amount of experience Crit has in TEAM ORIENTED PVP. Not only does he scrim, but he was apart of Aether league. If anyone has a decent opinion on what ACTUALLY IS TEAM ORIENTED PLAY, It's Crit, not you.
Third of all. Please humour me and make a LP team on Primal so we can show you very easily what it means to have Team Based Skill. You have no idea. Mercy in less than 3 minutes, I promise.
Who are you again? -
02-11-2018, 04:14 AMAchaNoYumi???? What are you even talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
Anyone who rolls up 1v8 in frontline is going to get murked, even a healer... Bad example is bad.
And which job requires the most skill to play? You didn't specify I'm afraid. -
02-11-2018, 03:22 PMGuesswhat
4.x is not more team friendly, it's rather due to the lower skill ceiling a lot more people understand how to teamwork. In other words: Technically speaking it's not more team oriented, but practically speaking it is.
The best thing about the 4.x system is the accessibility it allowed, but that could have been tweaked into the 3.x system as well by, for example, lowering level requirements. -
02-11-2018, 05:28 PMThirdChild_ZKIExperience and opinions on team oriented play, and yet he admits to never having played any 3.x PvP. . . Fling insults and play the cheerleader if you want, but his credibility is pretty suspect from that alone, and his attitude is pretty poor at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
I'm not gonna be the one to sit here and say he did or didn't reach top 100 legitimately, but I CAN say that, 1: Top 100 really isn't an accurate measure of a player's skill, and 2: Top 100 in 4.x PvP is even less an accurate measurement. Especially given the changes to scoring, rules and features of the mode, as well as the depth (or lack thereof) of the system. -
02-11-2018, 06:13 PMTrinket
I'm a bit disappointed in the last few pages of this thread because it just kind of devolved into mocking Crit and disregarding his arguments. Although he did have a bad attitude, you can't ignore that he made some pretty good points (will follow-up on this in a bit).
I don't really like singling people out, but this bothered me more than it should have. This is a terrible mindset to have and I encourage everyone to not have the "You didn't experience it, so you can't say anything about it" attitude because it does not promote discussion and seems like a way to shut someone's input out with minimal consequences. This also seems like it could grow over time into a "you didn't play x season, so you wouldn't know what high-level gameplay is because you only played y season" mentality, which is not very healthy. People can watch older gameplay and judge from what they see whether something was team-oriented or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wintersandman
This next part will be strictly about Feast.
I agree with this sentiment. I'd argue 3.x and 4.x are equally team oriented. However, I also believe that 4.x is more consistently team oriented because of the sole and undisputable reason that an individual has less carry potential due to the minimized kit; therefore, they are forced to adapt and rely on their team more often than not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
I think everyone can agree that mashing 9 buttons isn't as fun as 3.x gameplay. To make it short, I believe that the negative impact of the 4.x changes to the combat system are over-exaggerated. It raised the skill floor and lowered the skill ceiling. The new system enabled more players to join the PvP community (or at the very least play the modes) with a smoother learning curve and therefore more of a chance to get to higher level games. I'm confident that if the system stayed with the 3.x kit and got even more skills because of the new 4.0 skills, people would not be inclined to play PvP as much because the amount of buttons would be overwhelming and intimidating. I think the expansion of the PvP community should be something we celebrate.
The new system also makes games less-dynamic. It streamlined stats, removed any aspect of "chance" like critical hits, parries, block, and the like. I'm of the mentality that dynamic gameplay equates to more fun, but too much dynamics is too chaotic. I really like the way they evened out the stats because it puts everyone on a fair playing field with no sucker punches being thrown.
Now that I've said all that, I do want them to add two to three more moves to the current PvP kits. I don't think that would be too much for anyone but would also give enough variety to provide the dynamic feeling that 3.x PvP could provide. I also want them to make Bolt/Sprint a base action instead of an Additional skill. And put more useful stuff with (or buff) Additional skills that compete with each other more.
In conclusion, 3.x was more fun but 4.x is more attractive and convenient to the masses. I think everyone's just having a knee-jerk reaction to the sudden change, mostly because the individual has less impact now and has to rely on the team even more to accomplish anything. This is supported by the fact that everyone thinks that the 4.x system can't be improved and just goes back to admiring how amazing 3.x was; although, I'm sure if we went back to the 3.x model, we would have just as many problems.
I honestly think 4.0's combat system update was a step in the right direction.
Side note: I don't understand the complaint for the combo button change? Sure, 1-1-1-5-6 is boring, but it's not like 1-2-3-5-6 is any better. It would just be less convenient. It's a good QoL change in my opinion. -
02-11-2018, 07:29 PMMofafafaThis is somewhat both party fault as, winter is being really straight forward without holding back.But, seeing crit argument that he only bring in a clip while he doesn't participate/played in 3.0 PvP, he is deliberating trying to claim 4.0 PvP is superior with just 1 single clip as his source to prove his statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinket
That's what we've trying to say, many people only judge by the rumors and what other people says and was given impression that 3.0 PvP is bad.
Basically I agree what you said in your following statement, that SE is trying to capitalize their source of income by making it attractive to major player.
About crit tho, he was starting to throw bad attitude in which he got responded with such because he doesn't understand the concept of discussion and he start throwing insults such as *frontline plebs* on his very first few post
The concept of coordinating was very basic back in 3.0 PvP with burst target in JP DC, in which in NA/EU region doesn't adapt to this during that time.
The number 1 Healer in NA, came into Mana and Elemental DC and participate the Feast season during 5 and 6, he reached top 10? *i assume* but he deleted his character in both DC when he doesn't reach rank 1 by the end of the season.
He got destroyed very hard with JP DC coordination and some of my friend in Elemental doesn't really liked playing with him in their team. This healer on 50% of his game usually get blown up within 1 minute of the game if he isn't prepared for the opponent *GOOD DPS* and end up having the game ended after that. ( you can watch his twitch's VOD history, if he still saves it )
So crit's statement is very much debatable.
What i think about the complaint about button combo change is fine, but it kills another way of *misdirection* psychological gameplay imo.
This statement is very much true, I know some player skill isn't on par with the good one but their *DETERMINATION* to *GRIND* everyday is what makes them reach top 100, so do not judge top 100 = SUPER SKILLFUL WOW. Its like comparing a 60 ~ 90+% winrate to a 30 ~ 50% winrate players, if you get what i mean, Crit... top 100 =/= skillfulQuote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
I know some player that is very well respected in PvP community doesn't participate in 4.0 PvP but those people still getting asked to join the 4.0 Party Feast PvP Team, currently top 10 players in Elemental asked him to join their team but he refused because 4.0 PvP doesn't entertain him. -
02-11-2018, 08:10 PMaeoncsI get sticking up for a friend, but that was kinda intense.Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
I didn't say he was lucky to get Top 100 or that he didn't earn it, I said that he did get Top 100 with a <50% winrate in 4.X, which is true. I also said that he's talking out of his a**, making ignorant assumptions about 3.X PvP with zero experience to back them up, which is also true. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?
And WOW, he was a part of Aether league? You mean the one where you have to... exactly do what, to be able to participate? Oh right, you have to be alive. So unless his team won or made it to the finals, which could be true as I haven't really followed the most recent Aether Cup, that doesn't really mean anything.
Yeah right, because I have nothing better to do than create a team on an NA Data Center to prove a point to a random.Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
"Mercy in less than 3 minutes" Did you seriously just use your FCs name as a punchline in an attempt to intimidate me?... I mean, just wow.
And I'm someone who probably only some players on Chaos still remember, seeing as I haven't actively (aside from 10 to 50 games per season) participated in Ranked Feast pretty much since Season 3; which is when the whole thing started going downhill. -
02-12-2018, 01:36 AMAchaNoYumiQuote:
Originally Posted by aeoncs
I literally just lost braincells. Again, you're proving that you do not participate in true competitive PvP as it is known among all the real competitive players on each Data Center that the term "Mercy" means beating the team before the clock runs out. Hello?
Anyway, since the point is completely going over your head, I'll try to explain it to you, yet again, so maybe you and all the other Frontliners here thinking they know what they are talking about can truly understand.
YES. You are correct. 4.x is easier than 3.x PvP. Why? Because of less skills on the hotbars.
Because less skills are on the hotbar, pvp is easier.
Because PvP is easier, people have to become more aware than ever of what is about to happen, thus upping their ability to read situations, play even more coordinated with their team, evaluate the game that they are playing, etc.
CRIT IS RIGHT ABOUT THE ABILITY TO CARRY HARDER SOLO IN 3.X.
WHY?
Because you had more tools to work with!
4.x FORCES players to play better with their team due to the lack of kits to work their way out of whatever situation they are in.
Thus, Crit is right all along.
Like how is this so hard to understand?
It really isn't.
Think in terms of Competitive Pokemon Play.
Each Pokemon only has four moves.
If you're playing against someone who has just as much skill as you in Pokemon, then it becomes a mind game. You are forced to read your opponent. Once he exposes some of his team, you are forced to not only read your opponent, but the team he has. You are forced to evaluate and think "Hm, does his team counter mine? What do I need to do to beat his team? Do I need to play offensively or defensively with my full team?"
3.x has proven time and time again that this was not the priority because players were able to carry by themselves. Remember when WARs were extremely freaking OP and practically untouchable? That video Crit posted?
Both are fine examples of people being able to carry by themselves.
If the problem is that people don't understand how to cooperate with their team, thus cause a huge L everytime they play, then I understand how the deters a lot of people. The simple fact is the mentality has changed since 3.x because people aren't able to solo carry like they used to be able to. And you know what? That is fine.
Though classes aren't completely balanced in 4.x, I would argue that 4.x has done a better job balancing all the classes than 3.x, making it slightly more fair for not only vets but new players as well.
Edit;
And to everyone who is saying that there are people that are in the Top 100 who don't belong there. Hey, you know what, I agree. There are people that are there that don't belong there. However, with that being said, rarely will you ever see those people in the Top 50, heck even in the Top 60. Those people got carried by the very same people who understand how to work with their team so well that they made it to the top. It's funny, though, that I don't see a single one of you talking about "how x person didn't belong there" be in the Top 100.
I challenge you all to attempt Top 100. Attempt Top 100, play with the people who know what they are doing, and then come back here and discuss how team focused this game is now. At least in the Ranked aspect. The moment you hit High Gold/Plat, you'll start to see it. And once you hit Diamond, you'll understand it entirely. Until then, I feel like your arguments are just banter, because you have no evidence to back it up.
Does that mean your opinion is invalid? Of course not, that's a selfish thing to say. However, its better to have evidence backing up your statements than having only like 10 games played in ranked then coming to a final conclusion on how the game is on a true competitive level.
The things that are being argued here are not the things that should be argued about.
Edit 2;
My good friend also brought up a very good point that I'm going to copy and paste to this post:
This statement is coming from a S1 vet who has hit Top 100 every season so far.Quote:
Rei Reizei - Today at 10:51 AM
@Buff WAR just to add to the argument.
in 3.0 pvp you also were able to use your regular gear instead of what we have now. Critical hits were also a thing then as well
so certain jobs that focused on crit builds were able to solo if you knew how to play
for example MCH, monk
monk especially since Fist of Fire and Fist of earth were broken
White Mage also had the ability to carry games due to Sleep CC
now since everyone are on an even playing field skill and stat wise
its harder to solo and carry your way through just by mashing buttons
control over the adren box garenteed victory if you knew how to utilize your LB
especially when it was just one box
just control that one box and you win
also what people dont realize is
crit didnt just get top 100 on one chara
he got it on multiple characters in the season
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02-12-2018, 01:50 AMCommander_JustitiaYou know I could play chess too, way more strategy and way more mindgames, but it would also be pretty boring because we are here to play videogames. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
Now what SE does, is looking at chess and removes every figure but the king and you are defending that decision and call it a superior game. And why does "carry the team" need to be difficult for good pvp? It's not an argument against or for it, a game can have either option and still be good and fun. -
02-12-2018, 01:59 AMMofafafahttps://imgur.com/a/Ov553Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
https://imgur.com/a/Ov553
Season 5. only reach silver at season 6 because i want the title.
Hi, sir top 100.
PS: I was never interested in top 100 reward so i never go for it, also, I was trolling whenever i reach diamond promotion, so i just playing all sorts of role and class, healer/dps/tank, if on doubt, ask any Elemental PvP guy, they see me, if you can.
1) Dimishing Return, a mechanics that allow the target to have immunity after 3 attemp from a CC such as (sleep, stun, slow, bind, heavy) in which they are halved for every attempt by 50% from the duration each time. I use this knowledge and communicated with my team when in coordinating and inform them which target have immunity and tell them the time that their immunity will be removed after 1 minute passed from the last attempt.
2) Skill, which is more related to psychological or reflex toward players ingame, pre-stormblood have more reflex / psychological gameplay with PvP skills or any other skill such as "Blood for Blood / fetter / full swing / etc" that requires the reflexes or psychology play of the player to quickly react towards the certain play.
3) Thinking, just think about current 9 button smash gameplay compared to before.
4) Mechanics, similar to above statement but we had more tools to utilize with and coordinate with party. Positional / basically PvE rotation / perfect application of CC chain / etc *not to mention *purify* which the party member uses on other party member*
5) Memorizing, remembering your own party member or opponent skills used such as Barrage ( 90s cooldown ), Benediction ( 3 minutes ), Hallowed Ground ( basically 1 use per match unless it goes overtime ), purify/attunement cooldown, etc
6) awareness, yea.. no.. whatever its almost the same anyway *purify on team member if you notice* etc
7) lol i dont even know what am i typing anymore after these final exam
8) positioning, omg dont tell me you dont understand this. People complaint about getting mass cometeor, not knowing how to position themselves by spreading. In JP server, a misuses of mass cometeor will lead to disadvantage as opponent will pressure you with their very own mass cometeor. Feast, yea.. many people do not understand this concept including some of the top 100
quoting my old post statement here, too lazy to edit. -
02-12-2018, 02:03 AMAchaNoYumiSo why are you even arguing? The point Crit was making was that 3.x PvP had the ability to carry Solo while 4.x PvP is focused on coordinating with the team. I don't understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia
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02-12-2018, 02:06 AMAchaNoYumiYour post is valid as it makes sense. I'm more directing these to these other people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofafafa
Also MCH is OP at the moment lol. That PvE rotation is basically all you need to do in PvP ATM to get the big dmgs off unless enemy Healer knows what Wildfire is and puts Protect/Beni/whatever unga shield up at the end of a countdown. -
02-12-2018, 02:34 AMThirdChild_ZKI
First off, Acha, if you're going to attempt discussion, you better stow that holier-than-thou attitude quick. All that does is close people off to whatever point you're trying to make, and reflects poorly on you besides.
Now the, the claim that less skills means PvP is easier isn't quite true. Perhaps easier to someone just getting started and has no prior knowledge of anything, but there's a reason most pre-4.0 veterans dislike the new PvP: Depth. You don't trade depth for ease, then try to claim something is better for it. And you have the very mistaken impression that because things seem more team based now, it's better. It's not. You even admit that jobs aren't as balanced in 4.x, which those of us who played 3.x PvP are well aware of how much more balanced it was. Not perfect; it was never perfect, but a hell of a lot deeper, more balanced, and more fun. That is, IF you knew what you were doing.
You bring up solo carrying as a counter point, but realistically, you had to be REALLY good to pull that off, and I can't think of anyone who went in trying to do so. Sure, I carried a few myself, but that was simply taking advantage of momentum more often than not. I never attempted to carry anything because 1: I'm not that full of myself, and 2: I'm well aware of how unrealistic a 1v4 is. So, to try and claim that solo carrying was such a big, common thing is just incorrect. At the same time however, knowing when you had a weak link on the team and being able to fully utilize your kit to try and accommodate for said weak link was a necessary and learned skill. Having less to work with in that regard, skill-wise, is not a step up. It's a big step down.
Another point you make, which I've made a greater counter point to is that people don't understand how to cooperate with their team. Thing is, 9 buttons didn't fix that either. I've said many times in many threads that all attempts to make the Feast "foolproof" have so far failed, and only disappointed or driven experienced players away from it. People who didn't care to learn how to play then, likely still don't now, and if they somehow found a way to drop it all to 4 buttons, they still wouldn't, and THAT is the real issue. Yes, high level Feast does demand that teams cooperate and play at their best, but that's nothing new. If anything, it took MORE skill just to reach Gold rank back then, whereas now you can easily fumble your way into it, Top 100 or not. Hell just look at past seasons; Top 100 ranged from Diamond to Gold players, but now? With all the "foolproofing" and dumbing down of the systems of the Feast, it's all Diamond and some Platinum. Tell me how accurately that reflects player skill when everyone's at the top?
4.x doesn't encourage or reward team play, it forces reliance on your team, for better or worse, by limiting your kit and abilities to act/react to the situation at hand. For anyone who knew what to do and do it well then, it's hardly a hinderance - an annoyance at best - but don't think people who were good then aren't good now.
Let me address this as a career MCH:Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
First off, I didn't need to use Wildfire back then. Not only did I not need it, I sure as hell wasn't going to be performing any kind of PvE rotation with it.
Many times I used it as a feint; throw it on one guy to get his healer's attention there, then attack another target. Or I'd use it as an insurance during a burst. Watching it go off and take someone out when they think they got away or used Attunement was enjoyable.
Turning the freeform MCH shot combo into a linear one is awful. Like, it really is. Whereas once you could Reload>Slug Shot to proc a Clean Shot, now, you HAVE to perform the combo just to reach that shot. Having Stun Gun force an Overheat not only feels bad, it's taught newer MCHs to waste the only aoe stun in PvP as an Overheat button more often than not. Forcing your "burst" to be centered around Wildfire makes it brainless and obvious, where it wasn't before (and Wildfire wasn't even needed for said burst).
The rework of reloading isn't terrible, but common misunderstanding of it limits most MCH players. Feast or Frontlines, when I hear someone fully load their gun before battle, it just kills me inside knowing how they just gimped themselves for 3 shots. And by now I'm quite tired of trying to correct it.
With the exception of BTE, which requires a cc modifier for its max damage, MCH has no notable oGCD attacks, which can literally be felt in clutch moments.
MCH is strong, but it's hardly OP. And trying to force people to use PvE rotations in PvP definitely wasn't an improvement. Certainly not for MCH. -
02-12-2018, 02:45 AMAchaNoYumiLol @ this statement. How are you deriving a Holier-than-thou attitude when people are literally insulting my friend starting off for making the same argument that you all are agreeing with magically now? So these people that are insulting my friend aren't holier-than-thou because they are agreeing with you? Seems pretty one-sided and petty if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
Literally everything that you think you're "arguing against me with" is actually the complete opposite. If you took a moment to read my post, you'd realize that you're in fact agreeing with me rather than arguing.
So again, I ask, why are you guys even arguing against Crit? Why are you guys even arguing against me?
The point originally, and still remains, is that 4.x requires team oriented play more than ever, the ability to read situations (that skill also includes with who you're playing with and who you're playing against) and the ability to carry solo is lowered tremendously.
And again, if people are deterred from PvP because they don't understand how to work with a team, then that's their problem.
And you misread, I stated that classes are more balanced now in 4.x than in 3.x, not the other way around. Please refer to my previous post with the quote that my friend said. -
02-12-2018, 02:58 AMThirdChild_ZKI
Crit ran their mouth and made an ass of themself, not unlike you've been doing as well, and people shut him down for it. This is me not feeling one bit sorry for that.
Jobs are not more balanced now. I invite you to go read those job guides or take a look around the PvP forums a bit.
And no, 4.x really doesn't demand any more team play or situational awareness than before. Sure, you can't solo carry so easily anymore, but that wasn't what it was all about in the first place. People aren't deterred from PvP because they don't understand how to work as a team, they're deterred because it's not good, or because they already had negative stigmas about it anyways. It really does take knowing what we had vs what we have now to see the sad irony of how people hated/avoided 3.x PvP for the exact reasons and issues that are prevalent now in 4.x PvP, but are too busy lauding SE for their big "fix". -
02-12-2018, 03:18 AMAchaNoYumiNo where anywhere did Crit make an ass out of himself. All because he disagreed doesn't mean he did just that, and you saying that is making an ass out of yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
I read the PvP forums quite a bit, actually, or I wouldn't be here talking to you or anyone else. And no one is saying it's good. You can't just create an argument out of thin air to argue against someone else.
And yes, Lace, 4.x does demand more team work.
Again, I want you to hop out of Frontlines for a bit and at least try for high gold/plat. -
02-12-2018, 04:02 AMaeoncsSorry for not recognizing that entirely made-up term that I've never heard of in all my years of competitive PvP - be it WoW, LoL, BDO or BnS. Are you trolling? Also, that you seem to think that any part of FFXIVs PvP is truly competitive is lol-worthy in and of itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
As to the rest of your post, what you, and Crit also, don't seem to realize is that no one is saying that working as a team is unimportant or even less important now than it was in 3.X - Crit was the one who came in here, with literally zero 3.X experience, making assumptions about things he's entirely ignorant about. I've played with and against several Top 10 players during season 2-4 and saying that teamwork didn't matter is complete BS. If a team worked really well together in 3.X it was an absolute stomp when they faced off against a team full of solo-oriented players.
You had to be aware of your teams cooldowns, coordinate CC, burst and defensive play in a way that simply isn't possible now. So let me put it like this: In low and even mid ranked solo queue teamwork is definitely much more important now than it was back then. In higher rankings, and especially Light Party, it's the other way around. You had so much more options to coordinate as a team back then, it's not even funny.
Season 2. 4th highest winrate in the entire DC with barely any games played. And you just made me check, in Season 4 I reached Diamond with less than 150 games played and a winrate of 74%. Tbh, I never had the time and incentive trying for Top 10 but in S4 I stopped playing halfway through at rank 30~, since I didn't really care for the mount, and then ultimately dropped out of the Top 100 during Black Week. I didn't even want to mention that as it has no place in a proper discussion, it's like immediately playing the fflogs card in a PvE discussion, but you tried to call me out on it, so yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
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02-12-2018, 04:05 AMThirdChild_ZKI
Oh lord, here we go. . .
Didn't play back then, admits it looked and sounded more fun, then claims it was unbalanced and promoted the wrong mindset. . . That's a little contradictory, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
Where do I begin with this one? The exaggerations? The counters to his own points?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
THIS is asinine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
Oh but remember when he said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
Experience is the best teacher. Lack thereof only makes this statement laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
Just another opinion. But please do tell me how chatless, role-based medal cap, highest-score-reached = rank Feast is so pro? Some of us actually DID have to understand how to properly manage medals, how to deal with strong bursts, solo or coordinated. Some of us understood then, what people are only learning now. And beyond medals, none of that skill and knowledge was only applicable to one form of PvP over another. But sure, convince yourselves that the mess you play now makes you so pro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
[Taken from a different thread] Doesn't know me, and assumes far too much. I hit my post limit that day but I edited a previous post and told him I'd accept a challenge whenever. Haven't heard anything from him since.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
That said, defend your friend all you like. Maybe take off the fanboy t-shirt first. And when you're done with that, I'll accept your challenge too. I don't care about hollow ranking systems, but if that's all you've got to try and take a stance on, then with no attempt at being nice or civil about this, you better show me a good time. -
02-12-2018, 04:39 AMKisama
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02-12-2018, 06:53 AMTrinket
Yeah, this thread needs to die.
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02-12-2018, 11:43 AMAchaNoYumi
Literally every player that I've asked that actively participated in 3.x, hit the top boards, and are now top leaders in 4.x all agree that post 4.x has forced them all to coordinate with the team more than ever before.
And those are the people I will take seriously. Now I understand why they never come here. Can't reason with brick walls that are stuck in the past.
Adios. o7 -
02-12-2018, 12:27 PMMofafafawait, I dont see any other people post stating that, they disagree coordinating is necessary to climb back in 3.0 PvP????Quote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
Allow me explain the usefulness of coordination in PvP again.
The comparison for Coordinating between 3.0 and 4.0 is that:
3.0 require coordination only when in *Mid Platinum ~ Diamond* level, or just during start of the season where everyone is good players where it is necessary.
4.0 require coordination now more likely in *High Silver ~ Diamond* Level, or just during the start of the season where everyone is good players where it is neccesary.
The removal of tools from 3.0 render players to not able to solo carry at low level again, in which at high level, everyone know the functionality of every tools in which they know how to counter it.
But you still able to solo carry easily in 4.0 from unranked to silver when the season is half way through, where all the good players already climbed
PS: I was playing in JP / Elemental Data Center so im just stating my opinion from my experience.
So your opinion for 4.0 required more coordination is not wrong, but 3.0 also too required coordination when facing against competitive high skilled players
Thought this is what i said, but Elemental number 1 Melee *Condol Calais* still brute through 4.0 Feast with his skills to solo carry even in diamond... With Ninja of course, the most broken melee at that moment
Source : https://twitter.com/Condol_Cal/statu...21540287586305 -
02-12-2018, 02:04 PMThirdChild_ZKITHIS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofafafa
All the other smartass BS and self-glorifying rank thumping was unnecessary. -
02-12-2018, 09:14 PMabbasREE
It doesn't have the same competitive value as before.
Frontlines: The first 3 frontlines Secure/Slaughter/SealRock were extremely fun cuz kills mattered.I spammed them even after getting achiev's cuz of the kill count.
I enjoyed 15 killsteals as pld at the end of match and i would challenge myself to beat my previous killcount everygame. yeah i spammed RW for the monkey mount, im not goin back in there ever, simply because there is no fun or value in killing cuz anyone can get 20 kills by riding robots anyway.
Feast: Feels more like a 6mins minigame to me than actual ranked competitive PVP. it feels like verminion now, i have very low passion left for it, and its not like i wasn't passionate. i loved it and participated in every season of ranked feast, again cuz it was FUN. Having variation of skills to plan burst combo was FUN. IT WASN'T DULL AT ALL. i don't wanna say more cuz there is other threads with constructive comments and feedback fort improving the current feast mode. -
02-13-2018, 03:16 AMWintersandmanI don't care if you single me out. But if you're going to make a statement like he did. You better have more data than a single clip to back up your point. Anyone can make a clip to appear how ever they want. My bullshit meter is full. I also clearly stated how the lack of team play was what got them killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinket
Also no one is complaining about going to 1,1,1 from 1,2,3. What we are complaining about is the reduction in kit. -
02-13-2018, 04:05 AMDivinemightsWho would run into a group of 8? Horrible example is horribleQuote:
Originally Posted by AchaNoYumi
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02-14-2018, 04:03 AMloreleidiangeloWhen the PVP on the forums is 1000x more interesting than the PVP in-gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Kisama
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02-16-2018, 03:31 AMAraxesDont be mad at them. They need this to feel good.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
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02-16-2018, 06:39 PMAkorYou can considered forums as open world pvp, just with letters :>Quote:
Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo
Secondly seeing the salt is the most enjoyable thing you can get. ;D -
02-16-2018, 10:28 PMThirdChild_ZKIYour mileage may vary, but I got my jollies actually playing PvP - both Feast and Frontlines - before SE's big "fix". And again, there are SOME good ideas that came out of this, but it just wasn't worth all that we lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akor
I would love to be optimistic and hope that SE builds it back up to something close to what we had, but I don't see that happening within the Stormblood expansion. . . -
02-17-2018, 07:11 PMAkorsurely, we are looking forward to what they will change in 5.0 i hope atleast they give us back some of CC's what we had in 2.x, 3.x. But i hope they will give us it back before 5.x but i dont see any chance for that. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
The best would if they could look at Aion UI system and use that for reference. :D Aion had the best tab-targeting pvp system (atleast for me) of all MMO's. :> But for this to happen its 0 chance they wont put any more thought than "necessary". -
02-25-2018, 10:43 AMNormaBates
My FC has been trying to get more involved into doing teams and duels, events, anything PvP related. Nobody is interested with the new changes and it's sad. The Old PvP we atleast had enough players interested to be able to face off 4v4 in the Feast, Duel nights and even a full Frontline FC party. :/ Would much rather have the way it was before.. not to mention the Q times are terrible and not worth it.
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02-25-2018, 11:09 AMNedkel
I just wish we have at least additional 2 abilities we could use.
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02-25-2018, 04:34 PMVinnush
I don't understand why you put training wheels in PvP (player-vs-player), but you get all the training wheels removed in extreme and savage PvE (player-vs-environment) modes. It's content that is so hard that only the hardcore players can complete. Why don't you think about a PvP mode with this in mind? A mode with no restrictions to your use of lv1-70 skills, however, you can make skills have a certain PvP effect disparate from it's PvE effect. I know the developers who made this game are highly intelligent, but their take on PvP is vapid, inane, and repetitive.
For instance: if you are tired of being stun locked, you simply make pvp trait abilities (that can only be used in PvP ) that break stuns. You manipulate ALL of a classes skills to make sure the PvP effect and damage is different from it's PvE effect and damage. You can even set up an open-world type where a Free Company can challenge another Free Company to a war, and if they accept the invitation to war, they can engage one another in open-world battle that is consensual. There are so many ideas that can be done to make PvP more fun. I hope, before the end of spring, that they have some major new update to PvP : new maps, new pvp concepts, new PvP traits and abilities available to add to the current ones we have. The current PvP system is low IQ, effort, and reward. The most rewarding thing in PvP is knowing that you've bested a foe at his best, not a severely handicapped foe who doesn't have access to 50% of his skills.
Guys, I'm afraid that we're going to have to be honest with ourselves. Square Enix never made any FF game, besides Dissidia, with PvP in mind. You'd think that in an mmo (massive multiplayer online) that at some point, PvP would be a salient topic for many who patronize the game. Once you reach end-game content, what do end-game players do? I know that players' favorite content to do at end-game is disparate, varying in gradation from player to player, however, the two things that end-game players do is most demonstrable throughout every mmo... Raid and PvP content are the two most frequented content by end-game players in most (not all) mmo.
"I want to battle," said Vinnush as he stood stoic, with his gazed fixed to the heavens, "let my fist be the absolute truth and my enemies who fall to them are those too weak to stand to my fists' might as their will was built on lies."
EDIT: Keep the current pvp aspects you have in game, but ADD a (Savage) PvP mode that is only for max level players that have full use of all their skills. How hard is it to do that? I want challenging pvp, I understand the complexity of chasing a target while trying to do a combo, that's the fun part... THE CHALLENGE! -
02-25-2018, 09:06 PMBloodRubyXIIThat's not what PvE stands for lmao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnush